Single Point Continuity - Spivak Ch.6 Q5
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I'm having a tough time with this question. Here are my thoughts so far.
$$ $$
Let $f(x) =
begin{cases}
a, & xtext{ rational}\
x, & xtext{ irrational}
end{cases}$
$hspace{1cm}$
Show that $f(x)$ is discontinuous at all points not $a$, i.e, when $y neq a$
$$ $$
Suppose otherwise, i.e., $lim limits_{x to y} f(x) = f(y)$
Suppose $y$ is rational ($y_r$)
$$begin{array}
f forall delta hspace{1cm} |x - y_r| < delta &Rightarrow |a - f(y_r)| < epsilon &&wedge qquad |x_i - f(y_r)| < epsilon \
&Rightarrow |a - a| < epsilon &&wedge qquad |x_i - a| < epsilon \
end{array}$$
$$ $$
So as I see it, I need to find an $epsilon$-$delta$ to make this statement contradict itself: $|x - y_r| < delta Rightarrow|x_i - a| < epsilon$
But I'm having no luck doing so. Any ideas?
P.S. I tried an alternative version of this method, by supposing $y$ to be irrational. But I reached the same dead end.
Progress Edit
$$begin{array}
forall forall delta exists x_i hspace{1cm} |x_i - y_r| < delta &Rightarrow |x_i - a| < epsilon
end{array}$$
However, I cannot seem to find contradiction.
$$begin{array}
.|x_i| > |y_r| - delta &Rightarrow |x_i| < epsilon + |a| \
&Rightarrow |y_r| - delta < epsilon + |a|
end{array}$$
real-analysis
$endgroup$
|
show 1 more comment
$begingroup$
I'm having a tough time with this question. Here are my thoughts so far.
$$ $$
Let $f(x) =
begin{cases}
a, & xtext{ rational}\
x, & xtext{ irrational}
end{cases}$
$hspace{1cm}$
Show that $f(x)$ is discontinuous at all points not $a$, i.e, when $y neq a$
$$ $$
Suppose otherwise, i.e., $lim limits_{x to y} f(x) = f(y)$
Suppose $y$ is rational ($y_r$)
$$begin{array}
f forall delta hspace{1cm} |x - y_r| < delta &Rightarrow |a - f(y_r)| < epsilon &&wedge qquad |x_i - f(y_r)| < epsilon \
&Rightarrow |a - a| < epsilon &&wedge qquad |x_i - a| < epsilon \
end{array}$$
$$ $$
So as I see it, I need to find an $epsilon$-$delta$ to make this statement contradict itself: $|x - y_r| < delta Rightarrow|x_i - a| < epsilon$
But I'm having no luck doing so. Any ideas?
P.S. I tried an alternative version of this method, by supposing $y$ to be irrational. But I reached the same dead end.
Progress Edit
$$begin{array}
forall forall delta exists x_i hspace{1cm} |x_i - y_r| < delta &Rightarrow |x_i - a| < epsilon
end{array}$$
However, I cannot seem to find contradiction.
$$begin{array}
.|x_i| > |y_r| - delta &Rightarrow |x_i| < epsilon + |a| \
&Rightarrow |y_r| - delta < epsilon + |a|
end{array}$$
real-analysis
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
Consider sequence (arbitrary) $x_ninmathbb{I}$ such that $x_nto a$. Show that $f(x_n)to a$ as well. Use sequential criterion for limits to comment regarding the continuity.
$endgroup$
– Yadati Kiran
Dec 22 '18 at 17:33
$begingroup$
Thanks for the suggestion, but I'm not very familiar with sequences/ series yet. Any alternative recommendations?
$endgroup$
– user0009999999
Dec 22 '18 at 17:40
1
$begingroup$
You have to argue that there exist $varepsilon>0$ such that for all $delta>0$ with $|x-y|<delta$, $|f(x)-f(y)|geqvarepsilon$ for $x,yinmathbb{R}setminus{a}$.
$endgroup$
– Yadati Kiran
Dec 22 '18 at 17:46
$begingroup$
That's right. Only what $epsilon$ would you suggest I use?
$endgroup$
– user0009999999
Dec 22 '18 at 18:17
1
$begingroup$
$varepsilon=dfrac12$ should do.
$endgroup$
– Yadati Kiran
Dec 22 '18 at 18:42
|
show 1 more comment
$begingroup$
I'm having a tough time with this question. Here are my thoughts so far.
$$ $$
Let $f(x) =
begin{cases}
a, & xtext{ rational}\
x, & xtext{ irrational}
end{cases}$
$hspace{1cm}$
Show that $f(x)$ is discontinuous at all points not $a$, i.e, when $y neq a$
$$ $$
Suppose otherwise, i.e., $lim limits_{x to y} f(x) = f(y)$
Suppose $y$ is rational ($y_r$)
$$begin{array}
f forall delta hspace{1cm} |x - y_r| < delta &Rightarrow |a - f(y_r)| < epsilon &&wedge qquad |x_i - f(y_r)| < epsilon \
&Rightarrow |a - a| < epsilon &&wedge qquad |x_i - a| < epsilon \
end{array}$$
$$ $$
So as I see it, I need to find an $epsilon$-$delta$ to make this statement contradict itself: $|x - y_r| < delta Rightarrow|x_i - a| < epsilon$
But I'm having no luck doing so. Any ideas?
P.S. I tried an alternative version of this method, by supposing $y$ to be irrational. But I reached the same dead end.
Progress Edit
$$begin{array}
forall forall delta exists x_i hspace{1cm} |x_i - y_r| < delta &Rightarrow |x_i - a| < epsilon
end{array}$$
However, I cannot seem to find contradiction.
$$begin{array}
.|x_i| > |y_r| - delta &Rightarrow |x_i| < epsilon + |a| \
&Rightarrow |y_r| - delta < epsilon + |a|
end{array}$$
real-analysis
$endgroup$
I'm having a tough time with this question. Here are my thoughts so far.
$$ $$
Let $f(x) =
begin{cases}
a, & xtext{ rational}\
x, & xtext{ irrational}
end{cases}$
$hspace{1cm}$
Show that $f(x)$ is discontinuous at all points not $a$, i.e, when $y neq a$
$$ $$
Suppose otherwise, i.e., $lim limits_{x to y} f(x) = f(y)$
Suppose $y$ is rational ($y_r$)
$$begin{array}
f forall delta hspace{1cm} |x - y_r| < delta &Rightarrow |a - f(y_r)| < epsilon &&wedge qquad |x_i - f(y_r)| < epsilon \
&Rightarrow |a - a| < epsilon &&wedge qquad |x_i - a| < epsilon \
end{array}$$
$$ $$
So as I see it, I need to find an $epsilon$-$delta$ to make this statement contradict itself: $|x - y_r| < delta Rightarrow|x_i - a| < epsilon$
But I'm having no luck doing so. Any ideas?
P.S. I tried an alternative version of this method, by supposing $y$ to be irrational. But I reached the same dead end.
Progress Edit
$$begin{array}
forall forall delta exists x_i hspace{1cm} |x_i - y_r| < delta &Rightarrow |x_i - a| < epsilon
end{array}$$
However, I cannot seem to find contradiction.
$$begin{array}
.|x_i| > |y_r| - delta &Rightarrow |x_i| < epsilon + |a| \
&Rightarrow |y_r| - delta < epsilon + |a|
end{array}$$
real-analysis
real-analysis
edited Dec 24 '18 at 12:49
user0009999999
asked Dec 22 '18 at 17:25
user0009999999user0009999999
305
305
$begingroup$
Consider sequence (arbitrary) $x_ninmathbb{I}$ such that $x_nto a$. Show that $f(x_n)to a$ as well. Use sequential criterion for limits to comment regarding the continuity.
$endgroup$
– Yadati Kiran
Dec 22 '18 at 17:33
$begingroup$
Thanks for the suggestion, but I'm not very familiar with sequences/ series yet. Any alternative recommendations?
$endgroup$
– user0009999999
Dec 22 '18 at 17:40
1
$begingroup$
You have to argue that there exist $varepsilon>0$ such that for all $delta>0$ with $|x-y|<delta$, $|f(x)-f(y)|geqvarepsilon$ for $x,yinmathbb{R}setminus{a}$.
$endgroup$
– Yadati Kiran
Dec 22 '18 at 17:46
$begingroup$
That's right. Only what $epsilon$ would you suggest I use?
$endgroup$
– user0009999999
Dec 22 '18 at 18:17
1
$begingroup$
$varepsilon=dfrac12$ should do.
$endgroup$
– Yadati Kiran
Dec 22 '18 at 18:42
|
show 1 more comment
$begingroup$
Consider sequence (arbitrary) $x_ninmathbb{I}$ such that $x_nto a$. Show that $f(x_n)to a$ as well. Use sequential criterion for limits to comment regarding the continuity.
$endgroup$
– Yadati Kiran
Dec 22 '18 at 17:33
$begingroup$
Thanks for the suggestion, but I'm not very familiar with sequences/ series yet. Any alternative recommendations?
$endgroup$
– user0009999999
Dec 22 '18 at 17:40
1
$begingroup$
You have to argue that there exist $varepsilon>0$ such that for all $delta>0$ with $|x-y|<delta$, $|f(x)-f(y)|geqvarepsilon$ for $x,yinmathbb{R}setminus{a}$.
$endgroup$
– Yadati Kiran
Dec 22 '18 at 17:46
$begingroup$
That's right. Only what $epsilon$ would you suggest I use?
$endgroup$
– user0009999999
Dec 22 '18 at 18:17
1
$begingroup$
$varepsilon=dfrac12$ should do.
$endgroup$
– Yadati Kiran
Dec 22 '18 at 18:42
$begingroup$
Consider sequence (arbitrary) $x_ninmathbb{I}$ such that $x_nto a$. Show that $f(x_n)to a$ as well. Use sequential criterion for limits to comment regarding the continuity.
$endgroup$
– Yadati Kiran
Dec 22 '18 at 17:33
$begingroup$
Consider sequence (arbitrary) $x_ninmathbb{I}$ such that $x_nto a$. Show that $f(x_n)to a$ as well. Use sequential criterion for limits to comment regarding the continuity.
$endgroup$
– Yadati Kiran
Dec 22 '18 at 17:33
$begingroup$
Thanks for the suggestion, but I'm not very familiar with sequences/ series yet. Any alternative recommendations?
$endgroup$
– user0009999999
Dec 22 '18 at 17:40
$begingroup$
Thanks for the suggestion, but I'm not very familiar with sequences/ series yet. Any alternative recommendations?
$endgroup$
– user0009999999
Dec 22 '18 at 17:40
1
1
$begingroup$
You have to argue that there exist $varepsilon>0$ such that for all $delta>0$ with $|x-y|<delta$, $|f(x)-f(y)|geqvarepsilon$ for $x,yinmathbb{R}setminus{a}$.
$endgroup$
– Yadati Kiran
Dec 22 '18 at 17:46
$begingroup$
You have to argue that there exist $varepsilon>0$ such that for all $delta>0$ with $|x-y|<delta$, $|f(x)-f(y)|geqvarepsilon$ for $x,yinmathbb{R}setminus{a}$.
$endgroup$
– Yadati Kiran
Dec 22 '18 at 17:46
$begingroup$
That's right. Only what $epsilon$ would you suggest I use?
$endgroup$
– user0009999999
Dec 22 '18 at 18:17
$begingroup$
That's right. Only what $epsilon$ would you suggest I use?
$endgroup$
– user0009999999
Dec 22 '18 at 18:17
1
1
$begingroup$
$varepsilon=dfrac12$ should do.
$endgroup$
– Yadati Kiran
Dec 22 '18 at 18:42
$begingroup$
$varepsilon=dfrac12$ should do.
$endgroup$
– Yadati Kiran
Dec 22 '18 at 18:42
|
show 1 more comment
6 Answers
6
active
oldest
votes
$begingroup$
Between any two distinct rational numbers, there is an irrational number, and vice versa.
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I addressed that in the beginning of my proof. Are you saying I should address it again later on?
$endgroup$
– user0009999999
Dec 22 '18 at 17:41
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@MiguelCumming-Romo yes
$endgroup$
– timur
Dec 22 '18 at 20:02
$begingroup$
Could you elaborate a bit more, please? I'm really stuck
$endgroup$
– user0009999999
Dec 22 '18 at 20:54
add a comment |
$begingroup$
hint
Let $bne a$ be a rationnal.
then $x_n=b+frac{pi}{n}$ is a sequence of irrationals which converges to $b$.
$$f(x_n)=x_nto bne f(b)$$
By the same if $bne a$ is irrational, put $y_n=frac{lfloor 10^n brfloor}{10^n}$ is a sequence of rationals which converges to $b$. but
$$f(y_n)=ane f(b).$$
Continuity at $x=a$.
let $(z_n)$ a sequence which goes to $a$.
then
$$f(z_n)=a text{ or } z_n$$
thus
$$f(z_n)to a=f(a)$$
$endgroup$
add a comment |
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Since $yne a$, we know $x$ is irrational and $xne a$.
Let $epsilon_0=|x-a|>0$. For any $delta>0$, there exists a rational $r$ such that $|x-r|<delta$, but $|f(x)-f(r)|=|x-a|=epsilon_0$. That is, $f(x)$ is discontinuous at $x$.
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I don't think epsilon can be defined in terms of x
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– user0009999999
Dec 22 '18 at 20:41
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$x$ is given and fixed.
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– user32828
Dec 23 '18 at 21:10
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Let's assume that a limit exists at $x_0$(call it $l$).
In any neighborhood of $x_0$ we can find rational number, so $f(x) = a$, for some $x$.
Choose $epsilon$ smaller than $|l - a|$.
This argument doesn't work only if $l$ is $a$. The the limit if exists at any point, it should be $a$.
The only point where it can be the limit is $x_0 = a (= f(x_0))$.
At other points choose $epsilon$ less than $|frac{x_0 - a}{2}|$.
Now choose an irrational $x$ sufficiently close to $x_0$ so that $|x-a|$ is greater than $epsilon$.
So that proves not only that it is continuous at only one point, but also that limit doesn't exist at others.
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add a comment |
$begingroup$
Without loss of generality, fix $a=1$. For $varepsilon=dfrac12$ consider the cases:
$x,ynotin(1-varepsilon,1+varepsilon)$. For every $delta>0$, $|x-y|<deltaimplies |f(x)-f(y)|=|1-y|geqdfrac12$
(This is true if either $xinmathbb{Q}$ and $yinmathbb{I}$ or otherwise.)
- If either $x$ or $yin(1-varepsilon,1+varepsilon)$, it follows as above.
For continuity at $x=a$, choose $delta=varepsilon$.
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
In Particular
Suppose $a = 1$
Suppose $f(x)$ continuous
begin{align}
forall delta hspace{0.5cm} |x - y| < delta & quad Rightarrow | 1 - f(y) | < epsilon quad &&wedge quad x_i - f(y) < epsilon
end{align}
Suppose irrational $y_i$, where $y_i > 1 + epsilon$
begin{equation*}
begin{split}
forall delta hspace{0.5cm} |x - y| < delta &Rightarrow | 1 - f(y_i) | < epsilon \
&Rightarrow |1 - y_i| < epsilon \
&Rightarrow |y_i| < epsilon + 1 \
&Rightarrow y_i < 1 + epsilon \
end{split}
end{equation*}
a contradiction
Consider rational $y_r$, where $y_i > y_r > 1 + epsilon$
begin{equation*}
begin{split}
forall delta hspace{0.5cm} |x - y| < delta &Rightarrow | 1 - f(y_i) | < epsilon \
&Rightarrow y_i < 1 + epsilon \
&Rightarrow y_r < 1 + epsilon \
end{split}
end{equation*}
a contradiction
In other words, $f(x)$ is discontinuous for all $y > 1 + epsilon$
Suppose $y_i$, where $y_i < 1 - epsilon$
begin{equation*}
begin{split}
forall delta hspace{0.5cm} |x - y| < delta &Rightarrow | 1 - f(y_i) | < epsilon \
&Rightarrow |1 - y_i| < epsilon \
&Rightarrow |y_i - 1| < epsilon \
&Rightarrow 1 - epsilon < y_i
end{split}
end{equation*}
a contradiction
Consider $y_r$, where $y_i < y_r < 1 - epsilon$
begin{equation*}
begin{split}
forall delta hspace{0.5cm} |x - y| < delta &Rightarrow | 1 - f(y_i) | < epsilon \
&Rightarrow 1 - epsilon < y_i \
&Rightarrow 1 - epsilon < y_r
end{split}
end{equation*}
a contradiction
In other words, $f(x)$ is discontinuous for all $y < 1 - epsilon$
Generally
Suppose $f(x)$ continuous
begin{align}
forall delta hspace{0.5cm} |x - y| < delta & quad Rightarrow | a - f(y) | < epsilon quad &&wedge quad x_i - f(y) < epsilon
end{align}
Suppose $y_i$, where $y_i > |a| + epsilon$
begin{equation*}
begin{split}
forall delta hspace{0.5cm} |x - y| < delta &Rightarrow | 1 - f(y_i) | < epsilon \
&Rightarrow |a - y_i| < epsilon \
&Rightarrow |y_i| < epsilon + |a| \
&Rightarrow y_i < epsilon + |a| \
end{split}
end{equation*}
a contradiction
Consider $y_r$, where $y_i > y_r > |a| + epsilon$
begin{equation*}
begin{split}
forall delta hspace{0.5cm} |x - y| < delta &Rightarrow | 1 - f(y_i) | < epsilon \
&Rightarrow y_i < |a| + epsilon \
&Rightarrow y_r < |a| + epsilon \
end{split}
end{equation*}
a contradiction
In other words, $f(x)$ is discontinuous for all $y > |a| + epsilon$,
and therefore discontinuous for all $y > a + epsilon$
Suppose $y_i$, where $y_i < a - epsilon$
begin{equation*}
begin{split}
forall delta hspace{0.5cm} |x - y| < delta &Rightarrow | 1 - f(y_i) | < epsilon \
&Rightarrow |a - y_i| < epsilon \
&Rightarrow |y_i - a| < epsilon \
&Rightarrow a - epsilon < y_i
end{split}
end{equation*}
a contradiction
Consider $y_r$, where $y_i < y_r < a - epsilon$
begin{equation*}
begin{split}
forall delta hspace{0.5cm} |x - y| < delta &Rightarrow | 1 - f(y_i) | < epsilon \
&Rightarrow a - epsilon < y_i \
&Rightarrow a - epsilon < y_r
end{split}
end{equation*}
a contradiction
In other words, $f(x)$ is discontinuous for all $y < 1 - epsilon$
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add a comment |
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6 Answers
6
active
oldest
votes
6 Answers
6
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
$begingroup$
Between any two distinct rational numbers, there is an irrational number, and vice versa.
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
I addressed that in the beginning of my proof. Are you saying I should address it again later on?
$endgroup$
– user0009999999
Dec 22 '18 at 17:41
$begingroup$
@MiguelCumming-Romo yes
$endgroup$
– timur
Dec 22 '18 at 20:02
$begingroup$
Could you elaborate a bit more, please? I'm really stuck
$endgroup$
– user0009999999
Dec 22 '18 at 20:54
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Between any two distinct rational numbers, there is an irrational number, and vice versa.
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
I addressed that in the beginning of my proof. Are you saying I should address it again later on?
$endgroup$
– user0009999999
Dec 22 '18 at 17:41
$begingroup$
@MiguelCumming-Romo yes
$endgroup$
– timur
Dec 22 '18 at 20:02
$begingroup$
Could you elaborate a bit more, please? I'm really stuck
$endgroup$
– user0009999999
Dec 22 '18 at 20:54
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Between any two distinct rational numbers, there is an irrational number, and vice versa.
$endgroup$
Between any two distinct rational numbers, there is an irrational number, and vice versa.
answered Dec 22 '18 at 17:40
timurtimur
12.2k2144
12.2k2144
$begingroup$
I addressed that in the beginning of my proof. Are you saying I should address it again later on?
$endgroup$
– user0009999999
Dec 22 '18 at 17:41
$begingroup$
@MiguelCumming-Romo yes
$endgroup$
– timur
Dec 22 '18 at 20:02
$begingroup$
Could you elaborate a bit more, please? I'm really stuck
$endgroup$
– user0009999999
Dec 22 '18 at 20:54
add a comment |
$begingroup$
I addressed that in the beginning of my proof. Are you saying I should address it again later on?
$endgroup$
– user0009999999
Dec 22 '18 at 17:41
$begingroup$
@MiguelCumming-Romo yes
$endgroup$
– timur
Dec 22 '18 at 20:02
$begingroup$
Could you elaborate a bit more, please? I'm really stuck
$endgroup$
– user0009999999
Dec 22 '18 at 20:54
$begingroup$
I addressed that in the beginning of my proof. Are you saying I should address it again later on?
$endgroup$
– user0009999999
Dec 22 '18 at 17:41
$begingroup$
I addressed that in the beginning of my proof. Are you saying I should address it again later on?
$endgroup$
– user0009999999
Dec 22 '18 at 17:41
$begingroup$
@MiguelCumming-Romo yes
$endgroup$
– timur
Dec 22 '18 at 20:02
$begingroup$
@MiguelCumming-Romo yes
$endgroup$
– timur
Dec 22 '18 at 20:02
$begingroup$
Could you elaborate a bit more, please? I'm really stuck
$endgroup$
– user0009999999
Dec 22 '18 at 20:54
$begingroup$
Could you elaborate a bit more, please? I'm really stuck
$endgroup$
– user0009999999
Dec 22 '18 at 20:54
add a comment |
$begingroup$
hint
Let $bne a$ be a rationnal.
then $x_n=b+frac{pi}{n}$ is a sequence of irrationals which converges to $b$.
$$f(x_n)=x_nto bne f(b)$$
By the same if $bne a$ is irrational, put $y_n=frac{lfloor 10^n brfloor}{10^n}$ is a sequence of rationals which converges to $b$. but
$$f(y_n)=ane f(b).$$
Continuity at $x=a$.
let $(z_n)$ a sequence which goes to $a$.
then
$$f(z_n)=a text{ or } z_n$$
thus
$$f(z_n)to a=f(a)$$
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
hint
Let $bne a$ be a rationnal.
then $x_n=b+frac{pi}{n}$ is a sequence of irrationals which converges to $b$.
$$f(x_n)=x_nto bne f(b)$$
By the same if $bne a$ is irrational, put $y_n=frac{lfloor 10^n brfloor}{10^n}$ is a sequence of rationals which converges to $b$. but
$$f(y_n)=ane f(b).$$
Continuity at $x=a$.
let $(z_n)$ a sequence which goes to $a$.
then
$$f(z_n)=a text{ or } z_n$$
thus
$$f(z_n)to a=f(a)$$
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
hint
Let $bne a$ be a rationnal.
then $x_n=b+frac{pi}{n}$ is a sequence of irrationals which converges to $b$.
$$f(x_n)=x_nto bne f(b)$$
By the same if $bne a$ is irrational, put $y_n=frac{lfloor 10^n brfloor}{10^n}$ is a sequence of rationals which converges to $b$. but
$$f(y_n)=ane f(b).$$
Continuity at $x=a$.
let $(z_n)$ a sequence which goes to $a$.
then
$$f(z_n)=a text{ or } z_n$$
thus
$$f(z_n)to a=f(a)$$
$endgroup$
hint
Let $bne a$ be a rationnal.
then $x_n=b+frac{pi}{n}$ is a sequence of irrationals which converges to $b$.
$$f(x_n)=x_nto bne f(b)$$
By the same if $bne a$ is irrational, put $y_n=frac{lfloor 10^n brfloor}{10^n}$ is a sequence of rationals which converges to $b$. but
$$f(y_n)=ane f(b).$$
Continuity at $x=a$.
let $(z_n)$ a sequence which goes to $a$.
then
$$f(z_n)=a text{ or } z_n$$
thus
$$f(z_n)to a=f(a)$$
answered Dec 22 '18 at 19:18
hamam_Abdallahhamam_Abdallah
38.2k21634
38.2k21634
add a comment |
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Since $yne a$, we know $x$ is irrational and $xne a$.
Let $epsilon_0=|x-a|>0$. For any $delta>0$, there exists a rational $r$ such that $|x-r|<delta$, but $|f(x)-f(r)|=|x-a|=epsilon_0$. That is, $f(x)$ is discontinuous at $x$.
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
I don't think epsilon can be defined in terms of x
$endgroup$
– user0009999999
Dec 22 '18 at 20:41
$begingroup$
$x$ is given and fixed.
$endgroup$
– user32828
Dec 23 '18 at 21:10
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Since $yne a$, we know $x$ is irrational and $xne a$.
Let $epsilon_0=|x-a|>0$. For any $delta>0$, there exists a rational $r$ such that $|x-r|<delta$, but $|f(x)-f(r)|=|x-a|=epsilon_0$. That is, $f(x)$ is discontinuous at $x$.
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
I don't think epsilon can be defined in terms of x
$endgroup$
– user0009999999
Dec 22 '18 at 20:41
$begingroup$
$x$ is given and fixed.
$endgroup$
– user32828
Dec 23 '18 at 21:10
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Since $yne a$, we know $x$ is irrational and $xne a$.
Let $epsilon_0=|x-a|>0$. For any $delta>0$, there exists a rational $r$ such that $|x-r|<delta$, but $|f(x)-f(r)|=|x-a|=epsilon_0$. That is, $f(x)$ is discontinuous at $x$.
$endgroup$
Since $yne a$, we know $x$ is irrational and $xne a$.
Let $epsilon_0=|x-a|>0$. For any $delta>0$, there exists a rational $r$ such that $|x-r|<delta$, but $|f(x)-f(r)|=|x-a|=epsilon_0$. That is, $f(x)$ is discontinuous at $x$.
answered Dec 22 '18 at 19:51
user32828user32828
16210
16210
$begingroup$
I don't think epsilon can be defined in terms of x
$endgroup$
– user0009999999
Dec 22 '18 at 20:41
$begingroup$
$x$ is given and fixed.
$endgroup$
– user32828
Dec 23 '18 at 21:10
add a comment |
$begingroup$
I don't think epsilon can be defined in terms of x
$endgroup$
– user0009999999
Dec 22 '18 at 20:41
$begingroup$
$x$ is given and fixed.
$endgroup$
– user32828
Dec 23 '18 at 21:10
$begingroup$
I don't think epsilon can be defined in terms of x
$endgroup$
– user0009999999
Dec 22 '18 at 20:41
$begingroup$
I don't think epsilon can be defined in terms of x
$endgroup$
– user0009999999
Dec 22 '18 at 20:41
$begingroup$
$x$ is given and fixed.
$endgroup$
– user32828
Dec 23 '18 at 21:10
$begingroup$
$x$ is given and fixed.
$endgroup$
– user32828
Dec 23 '18 at 21:10
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Let's assume that a limit exists at $x_0$(call it $l$).
In any neighborhood of $x_0$ we can find rational number, so $f(x) = a$, for some $x$.
Choose $epsilon$ smaller than $|l - a|$.
This argument doesn't work only if $l$ is $a$. The the limit if exists at any point, it should be $a$.
The only point where it can be the limit is $x_0 = a (= f(x_0))$.
At other points choose $epsilon$ less than $|frac{x_0 - a}{2}|$.
Now choose an irrational $x$ sufficiently close to $x_0$ so that $|x-a|$ is greater than $epsilon$.
So that proves not only that it is continuous at only one point, but also that limit doesn't exist at others.
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Let's assume that a limit exists at $x_0$(call it $l$).
In any neighborhood of $x_0$ we can find rational number, so $f(x) = a$, for some $x$.
Choose $epsilon$ smaller than $|l - a|$.
This argument doesn't work only if $l$ is $a$. The the limit if exists at any point, it should be $a$.
The only point where it can be the limit is $x_0 = a (= f(x_0))$.
At other points choose $epsilon$ less than $|frac{x_0 - a}{2}|$.
Now choose an irrational $x$ sufficiently close to $x_0$ so that $|x-a|$ is greater than $epsilon$.
So that proves not only that it is continuous at only one point, but also that limit doesn't exist at others.
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Let's assume that a limit exists at $x_0$(call it $l$).
In any neighborhood of $x_0$ we can find rational number, so $f(x) = a$, for some $x$.
Choose $epsilon$ smaller than $|l - a|$.
This argument doesn't work only if $l$ is $a$. The the limit if exists at any point, it should be $a$.
The only point where it can be the limit is $x_0 = a (= f(x_0))$.
At other points choose $epsilon$ less than $|frac{x_0 - a}{2}|$.
Now choose an irrational $x$ sufficiently close to $x_0$ so that $|x-a|$ is greater than $epsilon$.
So that proves not only that it is continuous at only one point, but also that limit doesn't exist at others.
$endgroup$
Let's assume that a limit exists at $x_0$(call it $l$).
In any neighborhood of $x_0$ we can find rational number, so $f(x) = a$, for some $x$.
Choose $epsilon$ smaller than $|l - a|$.
This argument doesn't work only if $l$ is $a$. The the limit if exists at any point, it should be $a$.
The only point where it can be the limit is $x_0 = a (= f(x_0))$.
At other points choose $epsilon$ less than $|frac{x_0 - a}{2}|$.
Now choose an irrational $x$ sufficiently close to $x_0$ so that $|x-a|$ is greater than $epsilon$.
So that proves not only that it is continuous at only one point, but also that limit doesn't exist at others.
edited Dec 23 '18 at 12:30
answered Dec 22 '18 at 19:34
AcadaAcada
11
11
add a comment |
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Without loss of generality, fix $a=1$. For $varepsilon=dfrac12$ consider the cases:
$x,ynotin(1-varepsilon,1+varepsilon)$. For every $delta>0$, $|x-y|<deltaimplies |f(x)-f(y)|=|1-y|geqdfrac12$
(This is true if either $xinmathbb{Q}$ and $yinmathbb{I}$ or otherwise.)
- If either $x$ or $yin(1-varepsilon,1+varepsilon)$, it follows as above.
For continuity at $x=a$, choose $delta=varepsilon$.
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Without loss of generality, fix $a=1$. For $varepsilon=dfrac12$ consider the cases:
$x,ynotin(1-varepsilon,1+varepsilon)$. For every $delta>0$, $|x-y|<deltaimplies |f(x)-f(y)|=|1-y|geqdfrac12$
(This is true if either $xinmathbb{Q}$ and $yinmathbb{I}$ or otherwise.)
- If either $x$ or $yin(1-varepsilon,1+varepsilon)$, it follows as above.
For continuity at $x=a$, choose $delta=varepsilon$.
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Without loss of generality, fix $a=1$. For $varepsilon=dfrac12$ consider the cases:
$x,ynotin(1-varepsilon,1+varepsilon)$. For every $delta>0$, $|x-y|<deltaimplies |f(x)-f(y)|=|1-y|geqdfrac12$
(This is true if either $xinmathbb{Q}$ and $yinmathbb{I}$ or otherwise.)
- If either $x$ or $yin(1-varepsilon,1+varepsilon)$, it follows as above.
For continuity at $x=a$, choose $delta=varepsilon$.
$endgroup$
Without loss of generality, fix $a=1$. For $varepsilon=dfrac12$ consider the cases:
$x,ynotin(1-varepsilon,1+varepsilon)$. For every $delta>0$, $|x-y|<deltaimplies |f(x)-f(y)|=|1-y|geqdfrac12$
(This is true if either $xinmathbb{Q}$ and $yinmathbb{I}$ or otherwise.)
- If either $x$ or $yin(1-varepsilon,1+varepsilon)$, it follows as above.
For continuity at $x=a$, choose $delta=varepsilon$.
answered Dec 24 '18 at 15:04
Yadati KiranYadati Kiran
1,8521620
1,8521620
add a comment |
add a comment |
$begingroup$
In Particular
Suppose $a = 1$
Suppose $f(x)$ continuous
begin{align}
forall delta hspace{0.5cm} |x - y| < delta & quad Rightarrow | 1 - f(y) | < epsilon quad &&wedge quad x_i - f(y) < epsilon
end{align}
Suppose irrational $y_i$, where $y_i > 1 + epsilon$
begin{equation*}
begin{split}
forall delta hspace{0.5cm} |x - y| < delta &Rightarrow | 1 - f(y_i) | < epsilon \
&Rightarrow |1 - y_i| < epsilon \
&Rightarrow |y_i| < epsilon + 1 \
&Rightarrow y_i < 1 + epsilon \
end{split}
end{equation*}
a contradiction
Consider rational $y_r$, where $y_i > y_r > 1 + epsilon$
begin{equation*}
begin{split}
forall delta hspace{0.5cm} |x - y| < delta &Rightarrow | 1 - f(y_i) | < epsilon \
&Rightarrow y_i < 1 + epsilon \
&Rightarrow y_r < 1 + epsilon \
end{split}
end{equation*}
a contradiction
In other words, $f(x)$ is discontinuous for all $y > 1 + epsilon$
Suppose $y_i$, where $y_i < 1 - epsilon$
begin{equation*}
begin{split}
forall delta hspace{0.5cm} |x - y| < delta &Rightarrow | 1 - f(y_i) | < epsilon \
&Rightarrow |1 - y_i| < epsilon \
&Rightarrow |y_i - 1| < epsilon \
&Rightarrow 1 - epsilon < y_i
end{split}
end{equation*}
a contradiction
Consider $y_r$, where $y_i < y_r < 1 - epsilon$
begin{equation*}
begin{split}
forall delta hspace{0.5cm} |x - y| < delta &Rightarrow | 1 - f(y_i) | < epsilon \
&Rightarrow 1 - epsilon < y_i \
&Rightarrow 1 - epsilon < y_r
end{split}
end{equation*}
a contradiction
In other words, $f(x)$ is discontinuous for all $y < 1 - epsilon$
Generally
Suppose $f(x)$ continuous
begin{align}
forall delta hspace{0.5cm} |x - y| < delta & quad Rightarrow | a - f(y) | < epsilon quad &&wedge quad x_i - f(y) < epsilon
end{align}
Suppose $y_i$, where $y_i > |a| + epsilon$
begin{equation*}
begin{split}
forall delta hspace{0.5cm} |x - y| < delta &Rightarrow | 1 - f(y_i) | < epsilon \
&Rightarrow |a - y_i| < epsilon \
&Rightarrow |y_i| < epsilon + |a| \
&Rightarrow y_i < epsilon + |a| \
end{split}
end{equation*}
a contradiction
Consider $y_r$, where $y_i > y_r > |a| + epsilon$
begin{equation*}
begin{split}
forall delta hspace{0.5cm} |x - y| < delta &Rightarrow | 1 - f(y_i) | < epsilon \
&Rightarrow y_i < |a| + epsilon \
&Rightarrow y_r < |a| + epsilon \
end{split}
end{equation*}
a contradiction
In other words, $f(x)$ is discontinuous for all $y > |a| + epsilon$,
and therefore discontinuous for all $y > a + epsilon$
Suppose $y_i$, where $y_i < a - epsilon$
begin{equation*}
begin{split}
forall delta hspace{0.5cm} |x - y| < delta &Rightarrow | 1 - f(y_i) | < epsilon \
&Rightarrow |a - y_i| < epsilon \
&Rightarrow |y_i - a| < epsilon \
&Rightarrow a - epsilon < y_i
end{split}
end{equation*}
a contradiction
Consider $y_r$, where $y_i < y_r < a - epsilon$
begin{equation*}
begin{split}
forall delta hspace{0.5cm} |x - y| < delta &Rightarrow | 1 - f(y_i) | < epsilon \
&Rightarrow a - epsilon < y_i \
&Rightarrow a - epsilon < y_r
end{split}
end{equation*}
a contradiction
In other words, $f(x)$ is discontinuous for all $y < 1 - epsilon$
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
In Particular
Suppose $a = 1$
Suppose $f(x)$ continuous
begin{align}
forall delta hspace{0.5cm} |x - y| < delta & quad Rightarrow | 1 - f(y) | < epsilon quad &&wedge quad x_i - f(y) < epsilon
end{align}
Suppose irrational $y_i$, where $y_i > 1 + epsilon$
begin{equation*}
begin{split}
forall delta hspace{0.5cm} |x - y| < delta &Rightarrow | 1 - f(y_i) | < epsilon \
&Rightarrow |1 - y_i| < epsilon \
&Rightarrow |y_i| < epsilon + 1 \
&Rightarrow y_i < 1 + epsilon \
end{split}
end{equation*}
a contradiction
Consider rational $y_r$, where $y_i > y_r > 1 + epsilon$
begin{equation*}
begin{split}
forall delta hspace{0.5cm} |x - y| < delta &Rightarrow | 1 - f(y_i) | < epsilon \
&Rightarrow y_i < 1 + epsilon \
&Rightarrow y_r < 1 + epsilon \
end{split}
end{equation*}
a contradiction
In other words, $f(x)$ is discontinuous for all $y > 1 + epsilon$
Suppose $y_i$, where $y_i < 1 - epsilon$
begin{equation*}
begin{split}
forall delta hspace{0.5cm} |x - y| < delta &Rightarrow | 1 - f(y_i) | < epsilon \
&Rightarrow |1 - y_i| < epsilon \
&Rightarrow |y_i - 1| < epsilon \
&Rightarrow 1 - epsilon < y_i
end{split}
end{equation*}
a contradiction
Consider $y_r$, where $y_i < y_r < 1 - epsilon$
begin{equation*}
begin{split}
forall delta hspace{0.5cm} |x - y| < delta &Rightarrow | 1 - f(y_i) | < epsilon \
&Rightarrow 1 - epsilon < y_i \
&Rightarrow 1 - epsilon < y_r
end{split}
end{equation*}
a contradiction
In other words, $f(x)$ is discontinuous for all $y < 1 - epsilon$
Generally
Suppose $f(x)$ continuous
begin{align}
forall delta hspace{0.5cm} |x - y| < delta & quad Rightarrow | a - f(y) | < epsilon quad &&wedge quad x_i - f(y) < epsilon
end{align}
Suppose $y_i$, where $y_i > |a| + epsilon$
begin{equation*}
begin{split}
forall delta hspace{0.5cm} |x - y| < delta &Rightarrow | 1 - f(y_i) | < epsilon \
&Rightarrow |a - y_i| < epsilon \
&Rightarrow |y_i| < epsilon + |a| \
&Rightarrow y_i < epsilon + |a| \
end{split}
end{equation*}
a contradiction
Consider $y_r$, where $y_i > y_r > |a| + epsilon$
begin{equation*}
begin{split}
forall delta hspace{0.5cm} |x - y| < delta &Rightarrow | 1 - f(y_i) | < epsilon \
&Rightarrow y_i < |a| + epsilon \
&Rightarrow y_r < |a| + epsilon \
end{split}
end{equation*}
a contradiction
In other words, $f(x)$ is discontinuous for all $y > |a| + epsilon$,
and therefore discontinuous for all $y > a + epsilon$
Suppose $y_i$, where $y_i < a - epsilon$
begin{equation*}
begin{split}
forall delta hspace{0.5cm} |x - y| < delta &Rightarrow | 1 - f(y_i) | < epsilon \
&Rightarrow |a - y_i| < epsilon \
&Rightarrow |y_i - a| < epsilon \
&Rightarrow a - epsilon < y_i
end{split}
end{equation*}
a contradiction
Consider $y_r$, where $y_i < y_r < a - epsilon$
begin{equation*}
begin{split}
forall delta hspace{0.5cm} |x - y| < delta &Rightarrow | 1 - f(y_i) | < epsilon \
&Rightarrow a - epsilon < y_i \
&Rightarrow a - epsilon < y_r
end{split}
end{equation*}
a contradiction
In other words, $f(x)$ is discontinuous for all $y < 1 - epsilon$
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
In Particular
Suppose $a = 1$
Suppose $f(x)$ continuous
begin{align}
forall delta hspace{0.5cm} |x - y| < delta & quad Rightarrow | 1 - f(y) | < epsilon quad &&wedge quad x_i - f(y) < epsilon
end{align}
Suppose irrational $y_i$, where $y_i > 1 + epsilon$
begin{equation*}
begin{split}
forall delta hspace{0.5cm} |x - y| < delta &Rightarrow | 1 - f(y_i) | < epsilon \
&Rightarrow |1 - y_i| < epsilon \
&Rightarrow |y_i| < epsilon + 1 \
&Rightarrow y_i < 1 + epsilon \
end{split}
end{equation*}
a contradiction
Consider rational $y_r$, where $y_i > y_r > 1 + epsilon$
begin{equation*}
begin{split}
forall delta hspace{0.5cm} |x - y| < delta &Rightarrow | 1 - f(y_i) | < epsilon \
&Rightarrow y_i < 1 + epsilon \
&Rightarrow y_r < 1 + epsilon \
end{split}
end{equation*}
a contradiction
In other words, $f(x)$ is discontinuous for all $y > 1 + epsilon$
Suppose $y_i$, where $y_i < 1 - epsilon$
begin{equation*}
begin{split}
forall delta hspace{0.5cm} |x - y| < delta &Rightarrow | 1 - f(y_i) | < epsilon \
&Rightarrow |1 - y_i| < epsilon \
&Rightarrow |y_i - 1| < epsilon \
&Rightarrow 1 - epsilon < y_i
end{split}
end{equation*}
a contradiction
Consider $y_r$, where $y_i < y_r < 1 - epsilon$
begin{equation*}
begin{split}
forall delta hspace{0.5cm} |x - y| < delta &Rightarrow | 1 - f(y_i) | < epsilon \
&Rightarrow 1 - epsilon < y_i \
&Rightarrow 1 - epsilon < y_r
end{split}
end{equation*}
a contradiction
In other words, $f(x)$ is discontinuous for all $y < 1 - epsilon$
Generally
Suppose $f(x)$ continuous
begin{align}
forall delta hspace{0.5cm} |x - y| < delta & quad Rightarrow | a - f(y) | < epsilon quad &&wedge quad x_i - f(y) < epsilon
end{align}
Suppose $y_i$, where $y_i > |a| + epsilon$
begin{equation*}
begin{split}
forall delta hspace{0.5cm} |x - y| < delta &Rightarrow | 1 - f(y_i) | < epsilon \
&Rightarrow |a - y_i| < epsilon \
&Rightarrow |y_i| < epsilon + |a| \
&Rightarrow y_i < epsilon + |a| \
end{split}
end{equation*}
a contradiction
Consider $y_r$, where $y_i > y_r > |a| + epsilon$
begin{equation*}
begin{split}
forall delta hspace{0.5cm} |x - y| < delta &Rightarrow | 1 - f(y_i) | < epsilon \
&Rightarrow y_i < |a| + epsilon \
&Rightarrow y_r < |a| + epsilon \
end{split}
end{equation*}
a contradiction
In other words, $f(x)$ is discontinuous for all $y > |a| + epsilon$,
and therefore discontinuous for all $y > a + epsilon$
Suppose $y_i$, where $y_i < a - epsilon$
begin{equation*}
begin{split}
forall delta hspace{0.5cm} |x - y| < delta &Rightarrow | 1 - f(y_i) | < epsilon \
&Rightarrow |a - y_i| < epsilon \
&Rightarrow |y_i - a| < epsilon \
&Rightarrow a - epsilon < y_i
end{split}
end{equation*}
a contradiction
Consider $y_r$, where $y_i < y_r < a - epsilon$
begin{equation*}
begin{split}
forall delta hspace{0.5cm} |x - y| < delta &Rightarrow | 1 - f(y_i) | < epsilon \
&Rightarrow a - epsilon < y_i \
&Rightarrow a - epsilon < y_r
end{split}
end{equation*}
a contradiction
In other words, $f(x)$ is discontinuous for all $y < 1 - epsilon$
$endgroup$
In Particular
Suppose $a = 1$
Suppose $f(x)$ continuous
begin{align}
forall delta hspace{0.5cm} |x - y| < delta & quad Rightarrow | 1 - f(y) | < epsilon quad &&wedge quad x_i - f(y) < epsilon
end{align}
Suppose irrational $y_i$, where $y_i > 1 + epsilon$
begin{equation*}
begin{split}
forall delta hspace{0.5cm} |x - y| < delta &Rightarrow | 1 - f(y_i) | < epsilon \
&Rightarrow |1 - y_i| < epsilon \
&Rightarrow |y_i| < epsilon + 1 \
&Rightarrow y_i < 1 + epsilon \
end{split}
end{equation*}
a contradiction
Consider rational $y_r$, where $y_i > y_r > 1 + epsilon$
begin{equation*}
begin{split}
forall delta hspace{0.5cm} |x - y| < delta &Rightarrow | 1 - f(y_i) | < epsilon \
&Rightarrow y_i < 1 + epsilon \
&Rightarrow y_r < 1 + epsilon \
end{split}
end{equation*}
a contradiction
In other words, $f(x)$ is discontinuous for all $y > 1 + epsilon$
Suppose $y_i$, where $y_i < 1 - epsilon$
begin{equation*}
begin{split}
forall delta hspace{0.5cm} |x - y| < delta &Rightarrow | 1 - f(y_i) | < epsilon \
&Rightarrow |1 - y_i| < epsilon \
&Rightarrow |y_i - 1| < epsilon \
&Rightarrow 1 - epsilon < y_i
end{split}
end{equation*}
a contradiction
Consider $y_r$, where $y_i < y_r < 1 - epsilon$
begin{equation*}
begin{split}
forall delta hspace{0.5cm} |x - y| < delta &Rightarrow | 1 - f(y_i) | < epsilon \
&Rightarrow 1 - epsilon < y_i \
&Rightarrow 1 - epsilon < y_r
end{split}
end{equation*}
a contradiction
In other words, $f(x)$ is discontinuous for all $y < 1 - epsilon$
Generally
Suppose $f(x)$ continuous
begin{align}
forall delta hspace{0.5cm} |x - y| < delta & quad Rightarrow | a - f(y) | < epsilon quad &&wedge quad x_i - f(y) < epsilon
end{align}
Suppose $y_i$, where $y_i > |a| + epsilon$
begin{equation*}
begin{split}
forall delta hspace{0.5cm} |x - y| < delta &Rightarrow | 1 - f(y_i) | < epsilon \
&Rightarrow |a - y_i| < epsilon \
&Rightarrow |y_i| < epsilon + |a| \
&Rightarrow y_i < epsilon + |a| \
end{split}
end{equation*}
a contradiction
Consider $y_r$, where $y_i > y_r > |a| + epsilon$
begin{equation*}
begin{split}
forall delta hspace{0.5cm} |x - y| < delta &Rightarrow | 1 - f(y_i) | < epsilon \
&Rightarrow y_i < |a| + epsilon \
&Rightarrow y_r < |a| + epsilon \
end{split}
end{equation*}
a contradiction
In other words, $f(x)$ is discontinuous for all $y > |a| + epsilon$,
and therefore discontinuous for all $y > a + epsilon$
Suppose $y_i$, where $y_i < a - epsilon$
begin{equation*}
begin{split}
forall delta hspace{0.5cm} |x - y| < delta &Rightarrow | 1 - f(y_i) | < epsilon \
&Rightarrow |a - y_i| < epsilon \
&Rightarrow |y_i - a| < epsilon \
&Rightarrow a - epsilon < y_i
end{split}
end{equation*}
a contradiction
Consider $y_r$, where $y_i < y_r < a - epsilon$
begin{equation*}
begin{split}
forall delta hspace{0.5cm} |x - y| < delta &Rightarrow | 1 - f(y_i) | < epsilon \
&Rightarrow a - epsilon < y_i \
&Rightarrow a - epsilon < y_r
end{split}
end{equation*}
a contradiction
In other words, $f(x)$ is discontinuous for all $y < 1 - epsilon$
answered Dec 31 '18 at 16:39
user0009999999user0009999999
305
305
add a comment |
add a comment |
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Consider sequence (arbitrary) $x_ninmathbb{I}$ such that $x_nto a$. Show that $f(x_n)to a$ as well. Use sequential criterion for limits to comment regarding the continuity.
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– Yadati Kiran
Dec 22 '18 at 17:33
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Thanks for the suggestion, but I'm not very familiar with sequences/ series yet. Any alternative recommendations?
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– user0009999999
Dec 22 '18 at 17:40
1
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You have to argue that there exist $varepsilon>0$ such that for all $delta>0$ with $|x-y|<delta$, $|f(x)-f(y)|geqvarepsilon$ for $x,yinmathbb{R}setminus{a}$.
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– Yadati Kiran
Dec 22 '18 at 17:46
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That's right. Only what $epsilon$ would you suggest I use?
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– user0009999999
Dec 22 '18 at 18:17
1
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$varepsilon=dfrac12$ should do.
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– Yadati Kiran
Dec 22 '18 at 18:42