Just using x for proving any real interval is uncountable











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(newbie here)



I'm trying to prove that any open real interval is uncountable.



I try to proove this with a bijective function (a,b) --> R. Is there a further criteria for this than having a bijective function?
If not, would it be possible to simply use an easy function like y=x, where x is an element in the real open interval (a,b) and y is an element of R.










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  • You can prove that either directly (with a diagonal argument) or with a bijection to some set you already know is uncountable. Just using "$y=x$" is essentially assuming what you want to prove.
    – Ethan Bolker
    Nov 14 at 16:01















up vote
0
down vote

favorite












(newbie here)



I'm trying to prove that any open real interval is uncountable.



I try to proove this with a bijective function (a,b) --> R. Is there a further criteria for this than having a bijective function?
If not, would it be possible to simply use an easy function like y=x, where x is an element in the real open interval (a,b) and y is an element of R.










share|cite|improve this question
























  • You can prove that either directly (with a diagonal argument) or with a bijection to some set you already know is uncountable. Just using "$y=x$" is essentially assuming what you want to prove.
    – Ethan Bolker
    Nov 14 at 16:01













up vote
0
down vote

favorite









up vote
0
down vote

favorite











(newbie here)



I'm trying to prove that any open real interval is uncountable.



I try to proove this with a bijective function (a,b) --> R. Is there a further criteria for this than having a bijective function?
If not, would it be possible to simply use an easy function like y=x, where x is an element in the real open interval (a,b) and y is an element of R.










share|cite|improve this question















(newbie here)



I'm trying to prove that any open real interval is uncountable.



I try to proove this with a bijective function (a,b) --> R. Is there a further criteria for this than having a bijective function?
If not, would it be possible to simply use an easy function like y=x, where x is an element in the real open interval (a,b) and y is an element of R.







proof-verification






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edited Nov 14 at 16:01









Ethan Bolker

39k543102




39k543102










asked Nov 14 at 15:57









maruto

1




1












  • You can prove that either directly (with a diagonal argument) or with a bijection to some set you already know is uncountable. Just using "$y=x$" is essentially assuming what you want to prove.
    – Ethan Bolker
    Nov 14 at 16:01


















  • You can prove that either directly (with a diagonal argument) or with a bijection to some set you already know is uncountable. Just using "$y=x$" is essentially assuming what you want to prove.
    – Ethan Bolker
    Nov 14 at 16:01
















You can prove that either directly (with a diagonal argument) or with a bijection to some set you already know is uncountable. Just using "$y=x$" is essentially assuming what you want to prove.
– Ethan Bolker
Nov 14 at 16:01




You can prove that either directly (with a diagonal argument) or with a bijection to some set you already know is uncountable. Just using "$y=x$" is essentially assuming what you want to prove.
– Ethan Bolker
Nov 14 at 16:01










2 Answers
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Note that what Cantor's diagonal argument shows directly is not that $mathbb R$ itself is uncountable, but that the particular open interval $(0,1)$ is uncountable.



Since $(0,1)subseteq mathbb R$, this immediately implies that $mathbb R$ is also uncountable, but for your purpose it is easier to aim directly for $(0,1)$.
Namely, if you have a different open interval $(a,b)$, you can map it bijectively to $(0,1)$ by a simple linear interpolation:



$$ x in (a,b) mapsto frac{x-a}{b-a} in (0,1) $$




would it be possible to simply use an easy function like y=x, where x is an element in the real open interval (a,b) and y is an element of R.




This does not really specify a function. In order to have a function you need to have a particular $y$ for each $xin(a,b)$, and a rule for which $y$s match up to which $x$s.






share|cite|improve this answer




























    up vote
    1
    down vote













    If you have only proved that $Bbb R$ is uncountable and want to prove that any interval $(a,b)$ is uncountable you can use any bijection between $(a,b)$ and $Bbb R$. $y=x$ does not supply that bijection because all the elements outside $(a,b)$ do not have an image. The easiest way is to find a function that stretches the interval and any such function will do.



    Often these are done by a chain of bijections. You can biject any open interval with any other open interval using a linear function, so instead of the general $(a,b)$ you can use an interval that is convenient, like $(0,1)$. One common one is to use the interval $(-frac pi 2, frac pi 2)$ and the function $y=tan x$






    share|cite|improve this answer





















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      2 Answers
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      2 Answers
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      up vote
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      Note that what Cantor's diagonal argument shows directly is not that $mathbb R$ itself is uncountable, but that the particular open interval $(0,1)$ is uncountable.



      Since $(0,1)subseteq mathbb R$, this immediately implies that $mathbb R$ is also uncountable, but for your purpose it is easier to aim directly for $(0,1)$.
      Namely, if you have a different open interval $(a,b)$, you can map it bijectively to $(0,1)$ by a simple linear interpolation:



      $$ x in (a,b) mapsto frac{x-a}{b-a} in (0,1) $$




      would it be possible to simply use an easy function like y=x, where x is an element in the real open interval (a,b) and y is an element of R.




      This does not really specify a function. In order to have a function you need to have a particular $y$ for each $xin(a,b)$, and a rule for which $y$s match up to which $x$s.






      share|cite|improve this answer

























        up vote
        1
        down vote













        Note that what Cantor's diagonal argument shows directly is not that $mathbb R$ itself is uncountable, but that the particular open interval $(0,1)$ is uncountable.



        Since $(0,1)subseteq mathbb R$, this immediately implies that $mathbb R$ is also uncountable, but for your purpose it is easier to aim directly for $(0,1)$.
        Namely, if you have a different open interval $(a,b)$, you can map it bijectively to $(0,1)$ by a simple linear interpolation:



        $$ x in (a,b) mapsto frac{x-a}{b-a} in (0,1) $$




        would it be possible to simply use an easy function like y=x, where x is an element in the real open interval (a,b) and y is an element of R.




        This does not really specify a function. In order to have a function you need to have a particular $y$ for each $xin(a,b)$, and a rule for which $y$s match up to which $x$s.






        share|cite|improve this answer























          up vote
          1
          down vote










          up vote
          1
          down vote









          Note that what Cantor's diagonal argument shows directly is not that $mathbb R$ itself is uncountable, but that the particular open interval $(0,1)$ is uncountable.



          Since $(0,1)subseteq mathbb R$, this immediately implies that $mathbb R$ is also uncountable, but for your purpose it is easier to aim directly for $(0,1)$.
          Namely, if you have a different open interval $(a,b)$, you can map it bijectively to $(0,1)$ by a simple linear interpolation:



          $$ x in (a,b) mapsto frac{x-a}{b-a} in (0,1) $$




          would it be possible to simply use an easy function like y=x, where x is an element in the real open interval (a,b) and y is an element of R.




          This does not really specify a function. In order to have a function you need to have a particular $y$ for each $xin(a,b)$, and a rule for which $y$s match up to which $x$s.






          share|cite|improve this answer












          Note that what Cantor's diagonal argument shows directly is not that $mathbb R$ itself is uncountable, but that the particular open interval $(0,1)$ is uncountable.



          Since $(0,1)subseteq mathbb R$, this immediately implies that $mathbb R$ is also uncountable, but for your purpose it is easier to aim directly for $(0,1)$.
          Namely, if you have a different open interval $(a,b)$, you can map it bijectively to $(0,1)$ by a simple linear interpolation:



          $$ x in (a,b) mapsto frac{x-a}{b-a} in (0,1) $$




          would it be possible to simply use an easy function like y=x, where x is an element in the real open interval (a,b) and y is an element of R.




          This does not really specify a function. In order to have a function you need to have a particular $y$ for each $xin(a,b)$, and a rule for which $y$s match up to which $x$s.







          share|cite|improve this answer












          share|cite|improve this answer



          share|cite|improve this answer










          answered Nov 14 at 16:14









          Henning Makholm

          235k16299534




          235k16299534






















              up vote
              1
              down vote













              If you have only proved that $Bbb R$ is uncountable and want to prove that any interval $(a,b)$ is uncountable you can use any bijection between $(a,b)$ and $Bbb R$. $y=x$ does not supply that bijection because all the elements outside $(a,b)$ do not have an image. The easiest way is to find a function that stretches the interval and any such function will do.



              Often these are done by a chain of bijections. You can biject any open interval with any other open interval using a linear function, so instead of the general $(a,b)$ you can use an interval that is convenient, like $(0,1)$. One common one is to use the interval $(-frac pi 2, frac pi 2)$ and the function $y=tan x$






              share|cite|improve this answer

























                up vote
                1
                down vote













                If you have only proved that $Bbb R$ is uncountable and want to prove that any interval $(a,b)$ is uncountable you can use any bijection between $(a,b)$ and $Bbb R$. $y=x$ does not supply that bijection because all the elements outside $(a,b)$ do not have an image. The easiest way is to find a function that stretches the interval and any such function will do.



                Often these are done by a chain of bijections. You can biject any open interval with any other open interval using a linear function, so instead of the general $(a,b)$ you can use an interval that is convenient, like $(0,1)$. One common one is to use the interval $(-frac pi 2, frac pi 2)$ and the function $y=tan x$






                share|cite|improve this answer























                  up vote
                  1
                  down vote










                  up vote
                  1
                  down vote









                  If you have only proved that $Bbb R$ is uncountable and want to prove that any interval $(a,b)$ is uncountable you can use any bijection between $(a,b)$ and $Bbb R$. $y=x$ does not supply that bijection because all the elements outside $(a,b)$ do not have an image. The easiest way is to find a function that stretches the interval and any such function will do.



                  Often these are done by a chain of bijections. You can biject any open interval with any other open interval using a linear function, so instead of the general $(a,b)$ you can use an interval that is convenient, like $(0,1)$. One common one is to use the interval $(-frac pi 2, frac pi 2)$ and the function $y=tan x$






                  share|cite|improve this answer












                  If you have only proved that $Bbb R$ is uncountable and want to prove that any interval $(a,b)$ is uncountable you can use any bijection between $(a,b)$ and $Bbb R$. $y=x$ does not supply that bijection because all the elements outside $(a,b)$ do not have an image. The easiest way is to find a function that stretches the interval and any such function will do.



                  Often these are done by a chain of bijections. You can biject any open interval with any other open interval using a linear function, so instead of the general $(a,b)$ you can use an interval that is convenient, like $(0,1)$. One common one is to use the interval $(-frac pi 2, frac pi 2)$ and the function $y=tan x$







                  share|cite|improve this answer












                  share|cite|improve this answer



                  share|cite|improve this answer










                  answered Nov 14 at 16:16









                  Ross Millikan

                  287k23195364




                  287k23195364






























                       

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