Just using x for proving any real interval is uncountable
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(newbie here)
I'm trying to prove that any open real interval is uncountable.
I try to proove this with a bijective function (a,b) --> R. Is there a further criteria for this than having a bijective function?
If not, would it be possible to simply use an easy function like y=x, where x is an element in the real open interval (a,b) and y is an element of R.
proof-verification
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up vote
0
down vote
favorite
(newbie here)
I'm trying to prove that any open real interval is uncountable.
I try to proove this with a bijective function (a,b) --> R. Is there a further criteria for this than having a bijective function?
If not, would it be possible to simply use an easy function like y=x, where x is an element in the real open interval (a,b) and y is an element of R.
proof-verification
You can prove that either directly (with a diagonal argument) or with a bijection to some set you already know is uncountable. Just using "$y=x$" is essentially assuming what you want to prove.
– Ethan Bolker
Nov 14 at 16:01
add a comment |
up vote
0
down vote
favorite
up vote
0
down vote
favorite
(newbie here)
I'm trying to prove that any open real interval is uncountable.
I try to proove this with a bijective function (a,b) --> R. Is there a further criteria for this than having a bijective function?
If not, would it be possible to simply use an easy function like y=x, where x is an element in the real open interval (a,b) and y is an element of R.
proof-verification
(newbie here)
I'm trying to prove that any open real interval is uncountable.
I try to proove this with a bijective function (a,b) --> R. Is there a further criteria for this than having a bijective function?
If not, would it be possible to simply use an easy function like y=x, where x is an element in the real open interval (a,b) and y is an element of R.
proof-verification
proof-verification
edited Nov 14 at 16:01
Ethan Bolker
39k543102
39k543102
asked Nov 14 at 15:57
maruto
1
1
You can prove that either directly (with a diagonal argument) or with a bijection to some set you already know is uncountable. Just using "$y=x$" is essentially assuming what you want to prove.
– Ethan Bolker
Nov 14 at 16:01
add a comment |
You can prove that either directly (with a diagonal argument) or with a bijection to some set you already know is uncountable. Just using "$y=x$" is essentially assuming what you want to prove.
– Ethan Bolker
Nov 14 at 16:01
You can prove that either directly (with a diagonal argument) or with a bijection to some set you already know is uncountable. Just using "$y=x$" is essentially assuming what you want to prove.
– Ethan Bolker
Nov 14 at 16:01
You can prove that either directly (with a diagonal argument) or with a bijection to some set you already know is uncountable. Just using "$y=x$" is essentially assuming what you want to prove.
– Ethan Bolker
Nov 14 at 16:01
add a comment |
2 Answers
2
active
oldest
votes
up vote
1
down vote
Note that what Cantor's diagonal argument shows directly is not that $mathbb R$ itself is uncountable, but that the particular open interval $(0,1)$ is uncountable.
Since $(0,1)subseteq mathbb R$, this immediately implies that $mathbb R$ is also uncountable, but for your purpose it is easier to aim directly for $(0,1)$.
Namely, if you have a different open interval $(a,b)$, you can map it bijectively to $(0,1)$ by a simple linear interpolation:
$$ x in (a,b) mapsto frac{x-a}{b-a} in (0,1) $$
would it be possible to simply use an easy function like y=x, where x is an element in the real open interval (a,b) and y is an element of R.
This does not really specify a function. In order to have a function you need to have a particular $y$ for each $xin(a,b)$, and a rule for which $y$s match up to which $x$s.
add a comment |
up vote
1
down vote
If you have only proved that $Bbb R$ is uncountable and want to prove that any interval $(a,b)$ is uncountable you can use any bijection between $(a,b)$ and $Bbb R$. $y=x$ does not supply that bijection because all the elements outside $(a,b)$ do not have an image. The easiest way is to find a function that stretches the interval and any such function will do.
Often these are done by a chain of bijections. You can biject any open interval with any other open interval using a linear function, so instead of the general $(a,b)$ you can use an interval that is convenient, like $(0,1)$. One common one is to use the interval $(-frac pi 2, frac pi 2)$ and the function $y=tan x$
add a comment |
2 Answers
2
active
oldest
votes
2 Answers
2
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
up vote
1
down vote
Note that what Cantor's diagonal argument shows directly is not that $mathbb R$ itself is uncountable, but that the particular open interval $(0,1)$ is uncountable.
Since $(0,1)subseteq mathbb R$, this immediately implies that $mathbb R$ is also uncountable, but for your purpose it is easier to aim directly for $(0,1)$.
Namely, if you have a different open interval $(a,b)$, you can map it bijectively to $(0,1)$ by a simple linear interpolation:
$$ x in (a,b) mapsto frac{x-a}{b-a} in (0,1) $$
would it be possible to simply use an easy function like y=x, where x is an element in the real open interval (a,b) and y is an element of R.
This does not really specify a function. In order to have a function you need to have a particular $y$ for each $xin(a,b)$, and a rule for which $y$s match up to which $x$s.
add a comment |
up vote
1
down vote
Note that what Cantor's diagonal argument shows directly is not that $mathbb R$ itself is uncountable, but that the particular open interval $(0,1)$ is uncountable.
Since $(0,1)subseteq mathbb R$, this immediately implies that $mathbb R$ is also uncountable, but for your purpose it is easier to aim directly for $(0,1)$.
Namely, if you have a different open interval $(a,b)$, you can map it bijectively to $(0,1)$ by a simple linear interpolation:
$$ x in (a,b) mapsto frac{x-a}{b-a} in (0,1) $$
would it be possible to simply use an easy function like y=x, where x is an element in the real open interval (a,b) and y is an element of R.
This does not really specify a function. In order to have a function you need to have a particular $y$ for each $xin(a,b)$, and a rule for which $y$s match up to which $x$s.
add a comment |
up vote
1
down vote
up vote
1
down vote
Note that what Cantor's diagonal argument shows directly is not that $mathbb R$ itself is uncountable, but that the particular open interval $(0,1)$ is uncountable.
Since $(0,1)subseteq mathbb R$, this immediately implies that $mathbb R$ is also uncountable, but for your purpose it is easier to aim directly for $(0,1)$.
Namely, if you have a different open interval $(a,b)$, you can map it bijectively to $(0,1)$ by a simple linear interpolation:
$$ x in (a,b) mapsto frac{x-a}{b-a} in (0,1) $$
would it be possible to simply use an easy function like y=x, where x is an element in the real open interval (a,b) and y is an element of R.
This does not really specify a function. In order to have a function you need to have a particular $y$ for each $xin(a,b)$, and a rule for which $y$s match up to which $x$s.
Note that what Cantor's diagonal argument shows directly is not that $mathbb R$ itself is uncountable, but that the particular open interval $(0,1)$ is uncountable.
Since $(0,1)subseteq mathbb R$, this immediately implies that $mathbb R$ is also uncountable, but for your purpose it is easier to aim directly for $(0,1)$.
Namely, if you have a different open interval $(a,b)$, you can map it bijectively to $(0,1)$ by a simple linear interpolation:
$$ x in (a,b) mapsto frac{x-a}{b-a} in (0,1) $$
would it be possible to simply use an easy function like y=x, where x is an element in the real open interval (a,b) and y is an element of R.
This does not really specify a function. In order to have a function you need to have a particular $y$ for each $xin(a,b)$, and a rule for which $y$s match up to which $x$s.
answered Nov 14 at 16:14
Henning Makholm
235k16299534
235k16299534
add a comment |
add a comment |
up vote
1
down vote
If you have only proved that $Bbb R$ is uncountable and want to prove that any interval $(a,b)$ is uncountable you can use any bijection between $(a,b)$ and $Bbb R$. $y=x$ does not supply that bijection because all the elements outside $(a,b)$ do not have an image. The easiest way is to find a function that stretches the interval and any such function will do.
Often these are done by a chain of bijections. You can biject any open interval with any other open interval using a linear function, so instead of the general $(a,b)$ you can use an interval that is convenient, like $(0,1)$. One common one is to use the interval $(-frac pi 2, frac pi 2)$ and the function $y=tan x$
add a comment |
up vote
1
down vote
If you have only proved that $Bbb R$ is uncountable and want to prove that any interval $(a,b)$ is uncountable you can use any bijection between $(a,b)$ and $Bbb R$. $y=x$ does not supply that bijection because all the elements outside $(a,b)$ do not have an image. The easiest way is to find a function that stretches the interval and any such function will do.
Often these are done by a chain of bijections. You can biject any open interval with any other open interval using a linear function, so instead of the general $(a,b)$ you can use an interval that is convenient, like $(0,1)$. One common one is to use the interval $(-frac pi 2, frac pi 2)$ and the function $y=tan x$
add a comment |
up vote
1
down vote
up vote
1
down vote
If you have only proved that $Bbb R$ is uncountable and want to prove that any interval $(a,b)$ is uncountable you can use any bijection between $(a,b)$ and $Bbb R$. $y=x$ does not supply that bijection because all the elements outside $(a,b)$ do not have an image. The easiest way is to find a function that stretches the interval and any such function will do.
Often these are done by a chain of bijections. You can biject any open interval with any other open interval using a linear function, so instead of the general $(a,b)$ you can use an interval that is convenient, like $(0,1)$. One common one is to use the interval $(-frac pi 2, frac pi 2)$ and the function $y=tan x$
If you have only proved that $Bbb R$ is uncountable and want to prove that any interval $(a,b)$ is uncountable you can use any bijection between $(a,b)$ and $Bbb R$. $y=x$ does not supply that bijection because all the elements outside $(a,b)$ do not have an image. The easiest way is to find a function that stretches the interval and any such function will do.
Often these are done by a chain of bijections. You can biject any open interval with any other open interval using a linear function, so instead of the general $(a,b)$ you can use an interval that is convenient, like $(0,1)$. One common one is to use the interval $(-frac pi 2, frac pi 2)$ and the function $y=tan x$
answered Nov 14 at 16:16
Ross Millikan
287k23195364
287k23195364
add a comment |
add a comment |
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You can prove that either directly (with a diagonal argument) or with a bijection to some set you already know is uncountable. Just using "$y=x$" is essentially assuming what you want to prove.
– Ethan Bolker
Nov 14 at 16:01