$C(X,K)$ isomorphic to polynomial algebra $K[t]$
up vote
3
down vote
favorite
For $X$ a topological space and $K$ a topological field of characteristic $0$, let $C(X,K)$ be the set of all continuous functions $f:Xto K$. The set $C(X,K)$ turns to a ring with point-wise addition and multiplication:
begin{align}
(f+g)(x)&=f(x)+g(x)\
(fg)(x) & =f(x)g(x).
end{align}
I'm looking for a topological space $X$ such that $C(X,K)cong K[t]$.
Or I'm looking for a proof that shows such space does not exist.
Thanks.
general-topology
|
show 1 more comment
up vote
3
down vote
favorite
For $X$ a topological space and $K$ a topological field of characteristic $0$, let $C(X,K)$ be the set of all continuous functions $f:Xto K$. The set $C(X,K)$ turns to a ring with point-wise addition and multiplication:
begin{align}
(f+g)(x)&=f(x)+g(x)\
(fg)(x) & =f(x)g(x).
end{align}
I'm looking for a topological space $X$ such that $C(X,K)cong K[t]$.
Or I'm looking for a proof that shows such space does not exist.
Thanks.
general-topology
Do you mean the isomorphism as abstract rings, or as $K$-algebras ?
– Max
Nov 13 at 10:40
@Max Well, really answer to any of them will be appreciated!
– Qurultay
Nov 13 at 10:42
I do,'t have a full answer yet, but if we're thinking in terms of $K$-algebras, you can try to prove the following things : the function $f:Xto K$ that generates $C(X,K)$ (as a $K$-algebra) is surjective, and the field $K$ must be algebraically closed.
– Max
Nov 13 at 11:21
Ok, I know how to prove that no such $X$ exists for $K=mathbb{C}$ with the usual topology, but my argument uses $exp$ so it will only work for algebraically closed topological fields where there is a nice relation between $K$ and $K^times$.
– Max
Nov 13 at 11:33
@Max Why no post this as an answer, then? An answer for a special case is still a useful one!
– lisyarus
Nov 13 at 11:35
|
show 1 more comment
up vote
3
down vote
favorite
up vote
3
down vote
favorite
For $X$ a topological space and $K$ a topological field of characteristic $0$, let $C(X,K)$ be the set of all continuous functions $f:Xto K$. The set $C(X,K)$ turns to a ring with point-wise addition and multiplication:
begin{align}
(f+g)(x)&=f(x)+g(x)\
(fg)(x) & =f(x)g(x).
end{align}
I'm looking for a topological space $X$ such that $C(X,K)cong K[t]$.
Or I'm looking for a proof that shows such space does not exist.
Thanks.
general-topology
For $X$ a topological space and $K$ a topological field of characteristic $0$, let $C(X,K)$ be the set of all continuous functions $f:Xto K$. The set $C(X,K)$ turns to a ring with point-wise addition and multiplication:
begin{align}
(f+g)(x)&=f(x)+g(x)\
(fg)(x) & =f(x)g(x).
end{align}
I'm looking for a topological space $X$ such that $C(X,K)cong K[t]$.
Or I'm looking for a proof that shows such space does not exist.
Thanks.
general-topology
general-topology
asked Nov 13 at 10:35
Qurultay
584313
584313
Do you mean the isomorphism as abstract rings, or as $K$-algebras ?
– Max
Nov 13 at 10:40
@Max Well, really answer to any of them will be appreciated!
– Qurultay
Nov 13 at 10:42
I do,'t have a full answer yet, but if we're thinking in terms of $K$-algebras, you can try to prove the following things : the function $f:Xto K$ that generates $C(X,K)$ (as a $K$-algebra) is surjective, and the field $K$ must be algebraically closed.
– Max
Nov 13 at 11:21
Ok, I know how to prove that no such $X$ exists for $K=mathbb{C}$ with the usual topology, but my argument uses $exp$ so it will only work for algebraically closed topological fields where there is a nice relation between $K$ and $K^times$.
– Max
Nov 13 at 11:33
@Max Why no post this as an answer, then? An answer for a special case is still a useful one!
– lisyarus
Nov 13 at 11:35
|
show 1 more comment
Do you mean the isomorphism as abstract rings, or as $K$-algebras ?
– Max
Nov 13 at 10:40
@Max Well, really answer to any of them will be appreciated!
– Qurultay
Nov 13 at 10:42
I do,'t have a full answer yet, but if we're thinking in terms of $K$-algebras, you can try to prove the following things : the function $f:Xto K$ that generates $C(X,K)$ (as a $K$-algebra) is surjective, and the field $K$ must be algebraically closed.
– Max
Nov 13 at 11:21
Ok, I know how to prove that no such $X$ exists for $K=mathbb{C}$ with the usual topology, but my argument uses $exp$ so it will only work for algebraically closed topological fields where there is a nice relation between $K$ and $K^times$.
– Max
Nov 13 at 11:33
@Max Why no post this as an answer, then? An answer for a special case is still a useful one!
– lisyarus
Nov 13 at 11:35
Do you mean the isomorphism as abstract rings, or as $K$-algebras ?
– Max
Nov 13 at 10:40
Do you mean the isomorphism as abstract rings, or as $K$-algebras ?
– Max
Nov 13 at 10:40
@Max Well, really answer to any of them will be appreciated!
– Qurultay
Nov 13 at 10:42
@Max Well, really answer to any of them will be appreciated!
– Qurultay
Nov 13 at 10:42
I do,'t have a full answer yet, but if we're thinking in terms of $K$-algebras, you can try to prove the following things : the function $f:Xto K$ that generates $C(X,K)$ (as a $K$-algebra) is surjective, and the field $K$ must be algebraically closed.
– Max
Nov 13 at 11:21
I do,'t have a full answer yet, but if we're thinking in terms of $K$-algebras, you can try to prove the following things : the function $f:Xto K$ that generates $C(X,K)$ (as a $K$-algebra) is surjective, and the field $K$ must be algebraically closed.
– Max
Nov 13 at 11:21
Ok, I know how to prove that no such $X$ exists for $K=mathbb{C}$ with the usual topology, but my argument uses $exp$ so it will only work for algebraically closed topological fields where there is a nice relation between $K$ and $K^times$.
– Max
Nov 13 at 11:33
Ok, I know how to prove that no such $X$ exists for $K=mathbb{C}$ with the usual topology, but my argument uses $exp$ so it will only work for algebraically closed topological fields where there is a nice relation between $K$ and $K^times$.
– Max
Nov 13 at 11:33
@Max Why no post this as an answer, then? An answer for a special case is still a useful one!
– lisyarus
Nov 13 at 11:35
@Max Why no post this as an answer, then? An answer for a special case is still a useful one!
– lisyarus
Nov 13 at 11:35
|
show 1 more comment
1 Answer
1
active
oldest
votes
up vote
3
down vote
This is not a full answer, but just leads. First of all, as discussed in the comments, I'll consider that we're asking for a $K$-algebra isomorphism, not just an isomorphism as abstract rings.
Note that if $X$ is such a space, the $K$-algebra structure map is $lambda mapsto $ the constant map with value $lambda$.
Now, if $f:Xto K$ is continuous and nonconstant, then under the isomorphism $C(X,K)to K[t]$ it is sent to a nonconstant polynomial, hence to a noninvertible element of the algebra.
But now we see that if $f:Xto K$ doesn't vanish, i.e. factors through $K^times$, then it's invertible in $C(X,K)$, thus in $K[t]$, thus it must be a constant map:
there are only constant maps $Xto K^times$.
Now let $f$ be the antecedent of $t$. In particular, for all non constant $Pin K[t]$, $P(f)$ is sent to $P(t)$, thus is noninvertible; and therefore it has a zero, say $x$. Then $f(x)$ is a root of $P$: every nonconstant polynomial has a root, which means that $K$ is algebraically closed.
If such an $X$ exists, $K$ is algebraically closed.
Notice that with the same reasoning, we get that for all $lambda$, $f-lambda$ is non invertible, thus $f$ is surjective.
There is a surjective continuous map $Xto K$ which generates $C(X,K)$.
Now if we have a nonconstant continuous map $Kto K^times$, putting the first and last yellow results together, we get a contradiction. This is the case for instance with $K=mathbb{C}$ with the usual topology, where $exp$ is continuous and nonconstant.
There is no such space for $mathbb{C}$. More generally, for every topological algebraically closed field with a continuous nonconstant map $Kto K^times$, there is no such $X$.
I don't know whether all topological algebraically closed fields have such a map. What about $overline{mathbb{Q}}$ for instance ?
In any case, it feels like the constraint "there is no nonconstant continuous $g:Xto K^times$" is a pretty big one; but I don't know how to make that precise yet. The isomorphism with $K[t]$ seems to suggest that $X$ doesn't have many opens, but this constraint suggests that it has a lot...
thanks a billion!
– Qurultay
Nov 13 at 11:54
2
A continuous nonconstant map $Kto K^times$ will exist if $K$ is disconnected (take a locally constant map that is not constant). So that rules out $overline{Q}$ with its usual topology.
– Eric Wofsey
Nov 13 at 15:44
@EricWofsey : indeed that rules out tons of examples actually (many algebraically closed subfields of $mathbb{C}$ with their usual topology I would guess, and -though I'm not sure- the $p$-adic fields)
– Max
Nov 13 at 16:20
add a comment |
1 Answer
1
active
oldest
votes
1 Answer
1
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
up vote
3
down vote
This is not a full answer, but just leads. First of all, as discussed in the comments, I'll consider that we're asking for a $K$-algebra isomorphism, not just an isomorphism as abstract rings.
Note that if $X$ is such a space, the $K$-algebra structure map is $lambda mapsto $ the constant map with value $lambda$.
Now, if $f:Xto K$ is continuous and nonconstant, then under the isomorphism $C(X,K)to K[t]$ it is sent to a nonconstant polynomial, hence to a noninvertible element of the algebra.
But now we see that if $f:Xto K$ doesn't vanish, i.e. factors through $K^times$, then it's invertible in $C(X,K)$, thus in $K[t]$, thus it must be a constant map:
there are only constant maps $Xto K^times$.
Now let $f$ be the antecedent of $t$. In particular, for all non constant $Pin K[t]$, $P(f)$ is sent to $P(t)$, thus is noninvertible; and therefore it has a zero, say $x$. Then $f(x)$ is a root of $P$: every nonconstant polynomial has a root, which means that $K$ is algebraically closed.
If such an $X$ exists, $K$ is algebraically closed.
Notice that with the same reasoning, we get that for all $lambda$, $f-lambda$ is non invertible, thus $f$ is surjective.
There is a surjective continuous map $Xto K$ which generates $C(X,K)$.
Now if we have a nonconstant continuous map $Kto K^times$, putting the first and last yellow results together, we get a contradiction. This is the case for instance with $K=mathbb{C}$ with the usual topology, where $exp$ is continuous and nonconstant.
There is no such space for $mathbb{C}$. More generally, for every topological algebraically closed field with a continuous nonconstant map $Kto K^times$, there is no such $X$.
I don't know whether all topological algebraically closed fields have such a map. What about $overline{mathbb{Q}}$ for instance ?
In any case, it feels like the constraint "there is no nonconstant continuous $g:Xto K^times$" is a pretty big one; but I don't know how to make that precise yet. The isomorphism with $K[t]$ seems to suggest that $X$ doesn't have many opens, but this constraint suggests that it has a lot...
thanks a billion!
– Qurultay
Nov 13 at 11:54
2
A continuous nonconstant map $Kto K^times$ will exist if $K$ is disconnected (take a locally constant map that is not constant). So that rules out $overline{Q}$ with its usual topology.
– Eric Wofsey
Nov 13 at 15:44
@EricWofsey : indeed that rules out tons of examples actually (many algebraically closed subfields of $mathbb{C}$ with their usual topology I would guess, and -though I'm not sure- the $p$-adic fields)
– Max
Nov 13 at 16:20
add a comment |
up vote
3
down vote
This is not a full answer, but just leads. First of all, as discussed in the comments, I'll consider that we're asking for a $K$-algebra isomorphism, not just an isomorphism as abstract rings.
Note that if $X$ is such a space, the $K$-algebra structure map is $lambda mapsto $ the constant map with value $lambda$.
Now, if $f:Xto K$ is continuous and nonconstant, then under the isomorphism $C(X,K)to K[t]$ it is sent to a nonconstant polynomial, hence to a noninvertible element of the algebra.
But now we see that if $f:Xto K$ doesn't vanish, i.e. factors through $K^times$, then it's invertible in $C(X,K)$, thus in $K[t]$, thus it must be a constant map:
there are only constant maps $Xto K^times$.
Now let $f$ be the antecedent of $t$. In particular, for all non constant $Pin K[t]$, $P(f)$ is sent to $P(t)$, thus is noninvertible; and therefore it has a zero, say $x$. Then $f(x)$ is a root of $P$: every nonconstant polynomial has a root, which means that $K$ is algebraically closed.
If such an $X$ exists, $K$ is algebraically closed.
Notice that with the same reasoning, we get that for all $lambda$, $f-lambda$ is non invertible, thus $f$ is surjective.
There is a surjective continuous map $Xto K$ which generates $C(X,K)$.
Now if we have a nonconstant continuous map $Kto K^times$, putting the first and last yellow results together, we get a contradiction. This is the case for instance with $K=mathbb{C}$ with the usual topology, where $exp$ is continuous and nonconstant.
There is no such space for $mathbb{C}$. More generally, for every topological algebraically closed field with a continuous nonconstant map $Kto K^times$, there is no such $X$.
I don't know whether all topological algebraically closed fields have such a map. What about $overline{mathbb{Q}}$ for instance ?
In any case, it feels like the constraint "there is no nonconstant continuous $g:Xto K^times$" is a pretty big one; but I don't know how to make that precise yet. The isomorphism with $K[t]$ seems to suggest that $X$ doesn't have many opens, but this constraint suggests that it has a lot...
thanks a billion!
– Qurultay
Nov 13 at 11:54
2
A continuous nonconstant map $Kto K^times$ will exist if $K$ is disconnected (take a locally constant map that is not constant). So that rules out $overline{Q}$ with its usual topology.
– Eric Wofsey
Nov 13 at 15:44
@EricWofsey : indeed that rules out tons of examples actually (many algebraically closed subfields of $mathbb{C}$ with their usual topology I would guess, and -though I'm not sure- the $p$-adic fields)
– Max
Nov 13 at 16:20
add a comment |
up vote
3
down vote
up vote
3
down vote
This is not a full answer, but just leads. First of all, as discussed in the comments, I'll consider that we're asking for a $K$-algebra isomorphism, not just an isomorphism as abstract rings.
Note that if $X$ is such a space, the $K$-algebra structure map is $lambda mapsto $ the constant map with value $lambda$.
Now, if $f:Xto K$ is continuous and nonconstant, then under the isomorphism $C(X,K)to K[t]$ it is sent to a nonconstant polynomial, hence to a noninvertible element of the algebra.
But now we see that if $f:Xto K$ doesn't vanish, i.e. factors through $K^times$, then it's invertible in $C(X,K)$, thus in $K[t]$, thus it must be a constant map:
there are only constant maps $Xto K^times$.
Now let $f$ be the antecedent of $t$. In particular, for all non constant $Pin K[t]$, $P(f)$ is sent to $P(t)$, thus is noninvertible; and therefore it has a zero, say $x$. Then $f(x)$ is a root of $P$: every nonconstant polynomial has a root, which means that $K$ is algebraically closed.
If such an $X$ exists, $K$ is algebraically closed.
Notice that with the same reasoning, we get that for all $lambda$, $f-lambda$ is non invertible, thus $f$ is surjective.
There is a surjective continuous map $Xto K$ which generates $C(X,K)$.
Now if we have a nonconstant continuous map $Kto K^times$, putting the first and last yellow results together, we get a contradiction. This is the case for instance with $K=mathbb{C}$ with the usual topology, where $exp$ is continuous and nonconstant.
There is no such space for $mathbb{C}$. More generally, for every topological algebraically closed field with a continuous nonconstant map $Kto K^times$, there is no such $X$.
I don't know whether all topological algebraically closed fields have such a map. What about $overline{mathbb{Q}}$ for instance ?
In any case, it feels like the constraint "there is no nonconstant continuous $g:Xto K^times$" is a pretty big one; but I don't know how to make that precise yet. The isomorphism with $K[t]$ seems to suggest that $X$ doesn't have many opens, but this constraint suggests that it has a lot...
This is not a full answer, but just leads. First of all, as discussed in the comments, I'll consider that we're asking for a $K$-algebra isomorphism, not just an isomorphism as abstract rings.
Note that if $X$ is such a space, the $K$-algebra structure map is $lambda mapsto $ the constant map with value $lambda$.
Now, if $f:Xto K$ is continuous and nonconstant, then under the isomorphism $C(X,K)to K[t]$ it is sent to a nonconstant polynomial, hence to a noninvertible element of the algebra.
But now we see that if $f:Xto K$ doesn't vanish, i.e. factors through $K^times$, then it's invertible in $C(X,K)$, thus in $K[t]$, thus it must be a constant map:
there are only constant maps $Xto K^times$.
Now let $f$ be the antecedent of $t$. In particular, for all non constant $Pin K[t]$, $P(f)$ is sent to $P(t)$, thus is noninvertible; and therefore it has a zero, say $x$. Then $f(x)$ is a root of $P$: every nonconstant polynomial has a root, which means that $K$ is algebraically closed.
If such an $X$ exists, $K$ is algebraically closed.
Notice that with the same reasoning, we get that for all $lambda$, $f-lambda$ is non invertible, thus $f$ is surjective.
There is a surjective continuous map $Xto K$ which generates $C(X,K)$.
Now if we have a nonconstant continuous map $Kto K^times$, putting the first and last yellow results together, we get a contradiction. This is the case for instance with $K=mathbb{C}$ with the usual topology, where $exp$ is continuous and nonconstant.
There is no such space for $mathbb{C}$. More generally, for every topological algebraically closed field with a continuous nonconstant map $Kto K^times$, there is no such $X$.
I don't know whether all topological algebraically closed fields have such a map. What about $overline{mathbb{Q}}$ for instance ?
In any case, it feels like the constraint "there is no nonconstant continuous $g:Xto K^times$" is a pretty big one; but I don't know how to make that precise yet. The isomorphism with $K[t]$ seems to suggest that $X$ doesn't have many opens, but this constraint suggests that it has a lot...
answered Nov 13 at 11:48
Max
11.9k11038
11.9k11038
thanks a billion!
– Qurultay
Nov 13 at 11:54
2
A continuous nonconstant map $Kto K^times$ will exist if $K$ is disconnected (take a locally constant map that is not constant). So that rules out $overline{Q}$ with its usual topology.
– Eric Wofsey
Nov 13 at 15:44
@EricWofsey : indeed that rules out tons of examples actually (many algebraically closed subfields of $mathbb{C}$ with their usual topology I would guess, and -though I'm not sure- the $p$-adic fields)
– Max
Nov 13 at 16:20
add a comment |
thanks a billion!
– Qurultay
Nov 13 at 11:54
2
A continuous nonconstant map $Kto K^times$ will exist if $K$ is disconnected (take a locally constant map that is not constant). So that rules out $overline{Q}$ with its usual topology.
– Eric Wofsey
Nov 13 at 15:44
@EricWofsey : indeed that rules out tons of examples actually (many algebraically closed subfields of $mathbb{C}$ with their usual topology I would guess, and -though I'm not sure- the $p$-adic fields)
– Max
Nov 13 at 16:20
thanks a billion!
– Qurultay
Nov 13 at 11:54
thanks a billion!
– Qurultay
Nov 13 at 11:54
2
2
A continuous nonconstant map $Kto K^times$ will exist if $K$ is disconnected (take a locally constant map that is not constant). So that rules out $overline{Q}$ with its usual topology.
– Eric Wofsey
Nov 13 at 15:44
A continuous nonconstant map $Kto K^times$ will exist if $K$ is disconnected (take a locally constant map that is not constant). So that rules out $overline{Q}$ with its usual topology.
– Eric Wofsey
Nov 13 at 15:44
@EricWofsey : indeed that rules out tons of examples actually (many algebraically closed subfields of $mathbb{C}$ with their usual topology I would guess, and -though I'm not sure- the $p$-adic fields)
– Max
Nov 13 at 16:20
@EricWofsey : indeed that rules out tons of examples actually (many algebraically closed subfields of $mathbb{C}$ with their usual topology I would guess, and -though I'm not sure- the $p$-adic fields)
– Max
Nov 13 at 16:20
add a comment |
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Do you mean the isomorphism as abstract rings, or as $K$-algebras ?
– Max
Nov 13 at 10:40
@Max Well, really answer to any of them will be appreciated!
– Qurultay
Nov 13 at 10:42
I do,'t have a full answer yet, but if we're thinking in terms of $K$-algebras, you can try to prove the following things : the function $f:Xto K$ that generates $C(X,K)$ (as a $K$-algebra) is surjective, and the field $K$ must be algebraically closed.
– Max
Nov 13 at 11:21
Ok, I know how to prove that no such $X$ exists for $K=mathbb{C}$ with the usual topology, but my argument uses $exp$ so it will only work for algebraically closed topological fields where there is a nice relation between $K$ and $K^times$.
– Max
Nov 13 at 11:33
@Max Why no post this as an answer, then? An answer for a special case is still a useful one!
– lisyarus
Nov 13 at 11:35