Vertical and horizontal separation between cruising and climbing aircraft











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I was recently a passenger on a commercial aircraft at cruise altitude when I noticed another aircraft just reaching its cruising altitude while crossing our flightpath from below, at what looked like a very close distance.



I looked up the two flights (LH491, AC172 on Nov 10, 2018) on Flightradar 24, linearly interpolated the following values in Excel to roughly 2-3 seconds resolution, and calculated the great circle distance between the coordinates:



interpolated separation AC 172 and LH 491



AC 172 was heading 106° at the very end of its climb to FL 350. LH 491 was heading 51°, cruising at FL 350.



The smallest horizontal separation by my calculation was about 3.67 nm (at 1300 ft vertically). When we reached 1000 ft vertical separation, that distance was about 4.7 nm.



To my understanding, aircraft at these altitudes should always have a separation of least 1000 ft or 5 nm.



Not being an aviation professional myself, could someone please help me understand what was happening here?



I'm sure there must be a duplicate question, but I couldn't find one that involves both the vertical and horizontal components.










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    up vote
    10
    down vote

    favorite












    I was recently a passenger on a commercial aircraft at cruise altitude when I noticed another aircraft just reaching its cruising altitude while crossing our flightpath from below, at what looked like a very close distance.



    I looked up the two flights (LH491, AC172 on Nov 10, 2018) on Flightradar 24, linearly interpolated the following values in Excel to roughly 2-3 seconds resolution, and calculated the great circle distance between the coordinates:



    interpolated separation AC 172 and LH 491



    AC 172 was heading 106° at the very end of its climb to FL 350. LH 491 was heading 51°, cruising at FL 350.



    The smallest horizontal separation by my calculation was about 3.67 nm (at 1300 ft vertically). When we reached 1000 ft vertical separation, that distance was about 4.7 nm.



    To my understanding, aircraft at these altitudes should always have a separation of least 1000 ft or 5 nm.



    Not being an aviation professional myself, could someone please help me understand what was happening here?



    I'm sure there must be a duplicate question, but I couldn't find one that involves both the vertical and horizontal components.










    share|improve this question







    New contributor




    Daniel Hutmacher is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
    Check out our Code of Conduct.






















      up vote
      10
      down vote

      favorite









      up vote
      10
      down vote

      favorite











      I was recently a passenger on a commercial aircraft at cruise altitude when I noticed another aircraft just reaching its cruising altitude while crossing our flightpath from below, at what looked like a very close distance.



      I looked up the two flights (LH491, AC172 on Nov 10, 2018) on Flightradar 24, linearly interpolated the following values in Excel to roughly 2-3 seconds resolution, and calculated the great circle distance between the coordinates:



      interpolated separation AC 172 and LH 491



      AC 172 was heading 106° at the very end of its climb to FL 350. LH 491 was heading 51°, cruising at FL 350.



      The smallest horizontal separation by my calculation was about 3.67 nm (at 1300 ft vertically). When we reached 1000 ft vertical separation, that distance was about 4.7 nm.



      To my understanding, aircraft at these altitudes should always have a separation of least 1000 ft or 5 nm.



      Not being an aviation professional myself, could someone please help me understand what was happening here?



      I'm sure there must be a duplicate question, but I couldn't find one that involves both the vertical and horizontal components.










      share|improve this question







      New contributor




      Daniel Hutmacher is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
      Check out our Code of Conduct.











      I was recently a passenger on a commercial aircraft at cruise altitude when I noticed another aircraft just reaching its cruising altitude while crossing our flightpath from below, at what looked like a very close distance.



      I looked up the two flights (LH491, AC172 on Nov 10, 2018) on Flightradar 24, linearly interpolated the following values in Excel to roughly 2-3 seconds resolution, and calculated the great circle distance between the coordinates:



      interpolated separation AC 172 and LH 491



      AC 172 was heading 106° at the very end of its climb to FL 350. LH 491 was heading 51°, cruising at FL 350.



      The smallest horizontal separation by my calculation was about 3.67 nm (at 1300 ft vertically). When we reached 1000 ft vertical separation, that distance was about 4.7 nm.



      To my understanding, aircraft at these altitudes should always have a separation of least 1000 ft or 5 nm.



      Not being an aviation professional myself, could someone please help me understand what was happening here?



      I'm sure there must be a duplicate question, but I couldn't find one that involves both the vertical and horizontal components.







      instrument-flight-rules separation






      share|improve this question







      New contributor




      Daniel Hutmacher is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
      Check out our Code of Conduct.











      share|improve this question







      New contributor




      Daniel Hutmacher is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
      Check out our Code of Conduct.









      share|improve this question




      share|improve this question






      New contributor




      Daniel Hutmacher is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
      Check out our Code of Conduct.









      asked yesterday









      Daniel Hutmacher

      1535




      1535




      New contributor




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      New contributor





      Daniel Hutmacher is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
      Check out our Code of Conduct.






      Daniel Hutmacher is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
      Check out our Code of Conduct.






















          1 Answer
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          I think you may have answered your own question note the use of the word OR




          To my understanding, aircraft at these altitudes should always have a
          separation of least 1000 ft or 5 nm.




          If you take a look at your data the aircraft are always separated by 1000 feet OR 5nm. The singular exception to this is when you have the separation quoted at 4.81 miles and 982ft. This can to an extent be explained away by the inaccuracies in systems like FlightRadar24






          share|improve this answer

















          • 3




            The separation of 982ft would also most likely not be "out of bounds" for the 1000ft rule, since ATC scopes only see increments of 100ft. Per the ATC data, the two aircraft were back into the 5+ horizontal separation range before they fell out of the 1000ft vertical separation range.
            – Jimmy
            yesterday











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          1 Answer
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          1 Answer
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          up vote
          14
          down vote



          accepted










          I think you may have answered your own question note the use of the word OR




          To my understanding, aircraft at these altitudes should always have a
          separation of least 1000 ft or 5 nm.




          If you take a look at your data the aircraft are always separated by 1000 feet OR 5nm. The singular exception to this is when you have the separation quoted at 4.81 miles and 982ft. This can to an extent be explained away by the inaccuracies in systems like FlightRadar24






          share|improve this answer

















          • 3




            The separation of 982ft would also most likely not be "out of bounds" for the 1000ft rule, since ATC scopes only see increments of 100ft. Per the ATC data, the two aircraft were back into the 5+ horizontal separation range before they fell out of the 1000ft vertical separation range.
            – Jimmy
            yesterday















          up vote
          14
          down vote



          accepted










          I think you may have answered your own question note the use of the word OR




          To my understanding, aircraft at these altitudes should always have a
          separation of least 1000 ft or 5 nm.




          If you take a look at your data the aircraft are always separated by 1000 feet OR 5nm. The singular exception to this is when you have the separation quoted at 4.81 miles and 982ft. This can to an extent be explained away by the inaccuracies in systems like FlightRadar24






          share|improve this answer

















          • 3




            The separation of 982ft would also most likely not be "out of bounds" for the 1000ft rule, since ATC scopes only see increments of 100ft. Per the ATC data, the two aircraft were back into the 5+ horizontal separation range before they fell out of the 1000ft vertical separation range.
            – Jimmy
            yesterday













          up vote
          14
          down vote



          accepted







          up vote
          14
          down vote



          accepted






          I think you may have answered your own question note the use of the word OR




          To my understanding, aircraft at these altitudes should always have a
          separation of least 1000 ft or 5 nm.




          If you take a look at your data the aircraft are always separated by 1000 feet OR 5nm. The singular exception to this is when you have the separation quoted at 4.81 miles and 982ft. This can to an extent be explained away by the inaccuracies in systems like FlightRadar24






          share|improve this answer












          I think you may have answered your own question note the use of the word OR




          To my understanding, aircraft at these altitudes should always have a
          separation of least 1000 ft or 5 nm.




          If you take a look at your data the aircraft are always separated by 1000 feet OR 5nm. The singular exception to this is when you have the separation quoted at 4.81 miles and 982ft. This can to an extent be explained away by the inaccuracies in systems like FlightRadar24







          share|improve this answer












          share|improve this answer



          share|improve this answer










          answered yesterday









          Dave

          59.5k4107218




          59.5k4107218








          • 3




            The separation of 982ft would also most likely not be "out of bounds" for the 1000ft rule, since ATC scopes only see increments of 100ft. Per the ATC data, the two aircraft were back into the 5+ horizontal separation range before they fell out of the 1000ft vertical separation range.
            – Jimmy
            yesterday














          • 3




            The separation of 982ft would also most likely not be "out of bounds" for the 1000ft rule, since ATC scopes only see increments of 100ft. Per the ATC data, the two aircraft were back into the 5+ horizontal separation range before they fell out of the 1000ft vertical separation range.
            – Jimmy
            yesterday








          3




          3




          The separation of 982ft would also most likely not be "out of bounds" for the 1000ft rule, since ATC scopes only see increments of 100ft. Per the ATC data, the two aircraft were back into the 5+ horizontal separation range before they fell out of the 1000ft vertical separation range.
          – Jimmy
          yesterday




          The separation of 982ft would also most likely not be "out of bounds" for the 1000ft rule, since ATC scopes only see increments of 100ft. Per the ATC data, the two aircraft were back into the 5+ horizontal separation range before they fell out of the 1000ft vertical separation range.
          – Jimmy
          yesterday










          Daniel Hutmacher is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.










           

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