Find Minimum value of $sqrt{58-42x}+sqrt{149-140sqrt{1-x^2}}$
$begingroup$
Find Minimum value of $$f(x)=sqrt{58-42x}+sqrt{149-140sqrt{1-x^2}}$$
My try: the domain of the function is $x in [-1 ,,,1]$
Differentiating and equating it to zero we get
$$f'(x)=frac{-21}{sqrt{58-42x}}+frac{70}{sqrt{1-x^2}sqrt{149-140sqrt{1-x^2}}}=0$$
but its very tedious to find critical points here.
any other approach?
algebra-precalculus derivatives optimization maxima-minima
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Find Minimum value of $$f(x)=sqrt{58-42x}+sqrt{149-140sqrt{1-x^2}}$$
My try: the domain of the function is $x in [-1 ,,,1]$
Differentiating and equating it to zero we get
$$f'(x)=frac{-21}{sqrt{58-42x}}+frac{70}{sqrt{1-x^2}sqrt{149-140sqrt{1-x^2}}}=0$$
but its very tedious to find critical points here.
any other approach?
algebra-precalculus derivatives optimization maxima-minima
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
You haven't differentiated it correctly.
$endgroup$
– Shubham Johri
Dec 6 '18 at 20:05
$begingroup$
According to wolframalpha, the minimizing $x$ is very ugly: $x=frac{300-3sqrt{4441}}{763}$. The minimum value ain't so bad: $sqrt{109}$. So, even if you did the differentiation correctly you would get some inconvenient quadratic to deal with.
$endgroup$
– user614671
Dec 6 '18 at 20:16
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Find Minimum value of $$f(x)=sqrt{58-42x}+sqrt{149-140sqrt{1-x^2}}$$
My try: the domain of the function is $x in [-1 ,,,1]$
Differentiating and equating it to zero we get
$$f'(x)=frac{-21}{sqrt{58-42x}}+frac{70}{sqrt{1-x^2}sqrt{149-140sqrt{1-x^2}}}=0$$
but its very tedious to find critical points here.
any other approach?
algebra-precalculus derivatives optimization maxima-minima
$endgroup$
Find Minimum value of $$f(x)=sqrt{58-42x}+sqrt{149-140sqrt{1-x^2}}$$
My try: the domain of the function is $x in [-1 ,,,1]$
Differentiating and equating it to zero we get
$$f'(x)=frac{-21}{sqrt{58-42x}}+frac{70}{sqrt{1-x^2}sqrt{149-140sqrt{1-x^2}}}=0$$
but its very tedious to find critical points here.
any other approach?
algebra-precalculus derivatives optimization maxima-minima
algebra-precalculus derivatives optimization maxima-minima
asked Dec 6 '18 at 19:58
Umesh shankarUmesh shankar
2,63631219
2,63631219
$begingroup$
You haven't differentiated it correctly.
$endgroup$
– Shubham Johri
Dec 6 '18 at 20:05
$begingroup$
According to wolframalpha, the minimizing $x$ is very ugly: $x=frac{300-3sqrt{4441}}{763}$. The minimum value ain't so bad: $sqrt{109}$. So, even if you did the differentiation correctly you would get some inconvenient quadratic to deal with.
$endgroup$
– user614671
Dec 6 '18 at 20:16
add a comment |
$begingroup$
You haven't differentiated it correctly.
$endgroup$
– Shubham Johri
Dec 6 '18 at 20:05
$begingroup$
According to wolframalpha, the minimizing $x$ is very ugly: $x=frac{300-3sqrt{4441}}{763}$. The minimum value ain't so bad: $sqrt{109}$. So, even if you did the differentiation correctly you would get some inconvenient quadratic to deal with.
$endgroup$
– user614671
Dec 6 '18 at 20:16
$begingroup$
You haven't differentiated it correctly.
$endgroup$
– Shubham Johri
Dec 6 '18 at 20:05
$begingroup$
You haven't differentiated it correctly.
$endgroup$
– Shubham Johri
Dec 6 '18 at 20:05
$begingroup$
According to wolframalpha, the minimizing $x$ is very ugly: $x=frac{300-3sqrt{4441}}{763}$. The minimum value ain't so bad: $sqrt{109}$. So, even if you did the differentiation correctly you would get some inconvenient quadratic to deal with.
$endgroup$
– user614671
Dec 6 '18 at 20:16
$begingroup$
According to wolframalpha, the minimizing $x$ is very ugly: $x=frac{300-3sqrt{4441}}{763}$. The minimum value ain't so bad: $sqrt{109}$. So, even if you did the differentiation correctly you would get some inconvenient quadratic to deal with.
$endgroup$
– user614671
Dec 6 '18 at 20:16
add a comment |
4 Answers
4
active
oldest
votes
$begingroup$
Let $(x,y)$ be a point on the unit circle $x^2+y^2=1$. We have to minimize the function:
$$
begin{aligned}
f(x,y)
&=
sqrt{(7x-3)^2+(7y-0)^2} + sqrt{(7x-0)^2+(7y-10)^2}
\
&=
operatorname{Distance}( (7x,7y) , (3,0) )
+
operatorname{Distance}( (7x,7y) , (0,10) )
\
&ge
operatorname{Distance}( (3,0) , (0,10) )
=sqrt{3^2+10^2} ,
end{aligned}
$$
with equality in the $ge$ above only for the point of intersection of the segment with the above distance with the circle of radius $7$ centered in the origin.
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
excellent analysis
$endgroup$
– Umesh shankar
Dec 8 '18 at 9:18
add a comment |
$begingroup$
hint
As $xin[-1,1]$, you can put
$$x=cos(t)$$ with $$0le tle pi.$$
the function becomes
$$F(t)=$$
$$sqrt{58-42cos(t)}+sqrt{149-140sin(t)}$$
$$frac 17F'(t)=$$
$$frac{3sin(t)}{sqrt{58-42cos(t)}}-frac{10cos(t)}{sqrt{149-140sin(t)}}$$
$F'(t)=0$ gives
$$9sin^2(t)(149-140sin(t))=$$
$$100cos^2(t)(58-42cos(t))$$
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
Say: Yes, quick hint. Should be maybe a comment, not an answer.
$endgroup$
– dan_fulea
Dec 6 '18 at 20:06
$begingroup$
And what about then?
$endgroup$
– greedoid
Dec 6 '18 at 20:11
$begingroup$
@greedoid Diffetentiate with respect to $t$. it is easier.
$endgroup$
– hamam_Abdallah
Dec 6 '18 at 20:11
1
$begingroup$
@greendoid well, we only need the points, not the point of the idea.
$endgroup$
– dan_fulea
Dec 6 '18 at 20:12
$begingroup$
@hamam_Abdallah then it is also simple to type this differential and solve w.r.t. $t$. Just fill in the details please. There is a difference between a possible beginning and and answer.
$endgroup$
– dan_fulea
Dec 6 '18 at 20:13
|
show 3 more comments
$begingroup$
If you are not interested in the analytical zero of $f'(x)$ you could try to find the solution using e.g. the Bisection method, or a Fixed-point iteration, e.g. Newton's method. However, if you are going to be solving it by hand, I admit that this doesn't really help with the tedious part – in fact, it is probably worse.
Edit: Also, as noted in a comment, your differentiation is not correct. Check your second term.
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
In the following, $x$ runs in the interval $J=[-1,1]$.
We introduce the functions of $xin J$
$$
begin{aligned}
A(x) &= sqrt{58-42 x} ,\
B(x) &= sqrt{149-140sqrt{ 1-x^2}} .\
&qquadtext{Then we have }\
10^2(58-A^2)^2 + 3^2(149-B^2)^2 &= 420^2 .
end{aligned}
$$
So we can formulate an equivalent problem:
Minimize $a+b$ constrained to $a$ between $sqrt{58pm 42}$ (i.e. $3$ and $10$), and $b$ between $sqrt{149pm 140}$ (i.e. $3$ and $17$) and $$10^2(58-a^2)^2+3^2(149-b^2)^2= 420^2 .$$
So we search Lagrange multiplicators for the function
$$F(a,b;t)=(a+b)-t(10^2(58-a^2)^2+3^2(149-b^2)^2-420^2)$$
to get the local extremal points. (Then we still have to compare with the marginal values.)
We obtain the following system:
$$
left{
begin{aligned}
0 &= F'_a(a,b;t) = 1+10^2;4at;(58-a^2) ,\
0 &= F'_b(a,b;t) = 1+3^2;4bt;(149-b^2) ,\
0 &= F'_t(a,b;t) = 10^2(58-a^2)^2+3^2(149-b^2)^2- 420^2 .
end{aligned}
right.
$$
Algebraically, we have only a slight improvement, compared with the equation $f'(x)=0$, which was the intention in the OP, where we have some radicals. Above we have a purely algebraic system, the slight improvement, and still have to start the solution.
The idea is elimination.
We first eliminate $4t$, which appears linearly, getting:
$$
left{
begin{aligned}
10^2;a;(58-a^2) &= 3^2;b;(149-b^2) ,\
10^2(58-a^2)^2 &+3^2(149-b^2)^2= 420^2 .
end{aligned}
right.
$$
One possible elimination idea (of $b$) from this point is as follows.
We are squaring the first equation, so we have an expression of $b^2(149-b^2)^2$ in terms of $a$, so $(149-b^2)^2$ is a polynomial in $a$ divided by $b^2$. We insert this expression of $(149-b^2)^2$ in the second equation, thus obtaining a formula for $b^2$ as a polynomial in $a$. We insert this $b^2$ in the second equation, thus obtaining an equation only in $a$. Of course, i cannot stop here and say "from here it simple, details left to the reader"... This bloody job is explicitly as follows, using a computer,
sage in my case:
var('a,b,bb');
EXPR = ( 10^2*a*(58-a^2) / 3^2 )^2 / bb # (149-b^2)^2
# bb is above a new variable for b^2
eq = solve( 10^2*(58-a^2)^2 + 3^2*EXPR == 420^2, bb )[0]
print "b^2 is the solution bb of:n%s" % eq
bb = eq.rhs()
a_poly = 10^2*(58-a^2)^2 + 3^2*(149-bb)^2 - 420^2
print "a is a zero point for the expression:"
print a_poly.factor()
Results:
b^2 is the solution bb of:
bb == -100/9*(a^6 - 116*a^4 + 3364*a^2)/(a^4 - 116*a^2 + 1600)
a is a zero point for the expression:
1/9
*(100*a^8 - 13400*a^6 + 398509*a^4 + 2317356*a^2 + 47534400)
*(109*a^4 - 9044*a^2 + 174400)
/((a + 10)^2*(a + 4)^2*(a - 4)^2*(a - 10)^2)
(The last expression was manually broken to fit in page.)
So $a$ is a root of the one or the other polynomial in the numerator. So $a^2$ is either the root of $100 U^4 - 13400U^3 + 398509 U^2 + 2317356 U + 47534400$, or the root or $109 U^2 - 9044 U + 174400$.
I did the above "in a human manner", and against my taste and conviction.
Let us put it an other way.
Of course, we cannot expect to have "simple solutions" and a "simple elimination by quick hint", so let us the computers do the work for us, then we can still decide...
Using sage, we eliminate blindly:
sage: R.<a,b,t> = PolynomialRing(QQ)
sage: R
Multivariate Polynomial Ring in a, b, t over Rational Field
sage: F = a+b - t*( (10*(58-a^2))^2 + (3*(149-b^2))^2 - 420^2 )
sage: J = R.ideal( diff(F,a), diff(F,b), diff(F,t) )
sage: K = J.elimination_ideal([b,t])
sage: K
Ideal (10900*a^12 - 2365000*a^10 + 182067081*a^8 - 5688483592*a^6 + 53723051536*a^4 - 25754227200*a^2 + 8289999360000)
of Multivariate Polynomial Ring in a, b, t over Rational Field
sage: K.gens()[0].factor()
(109*a^4 - 9044*a^2 + 174400)
* (100*a^8 - 13400*a^6 + 398509*a^4 + 2317356*a^2 + 47534400)
and this rather reflects my way to work.
We have thus all possible points / all candidates $a=sqrt{58-42x}$, so that calculating the corresponing $x$ (or the corresponding $b$) and inserting in $f$ (or $F$) can lead to a local minimum.
Let us finally ask for the numerical values, to finish, and get an answer. For each root $a$ of the above polynomial we compute numerically (to a good precision) the value of $f$. (Since the OP may not be interested in $F$.)
f(x) = sqrt(58-42*x) + sqrt(149-140*sqrt(1-x^2))
R.<a> = PolynomialRing(QQ)
P = (109*a^4 - 9044*a^2 + 174400)
* (100*a^8 - 13400*a^6 + 398509*a^4 + 2317356*a^2 + 47534400)
for aroot in P.roots(ring=AA, multiplicities=False):
if aroot < 3 or aroot > 10:
print "a = %s :: REJECTED" % aroot
continue
x = (58-aroot^2)/42
print "a = %s x = %s f(x) = %s" % (aroot, x, QQbar(f(x)))
We get:
a = -8.857786578527434? :: REJECTED
a = -7.936142667572221? :: REJECTED
a = -7.245077360672018? :: REJECTED
a = -5.520990047273946? :: REJECTED
a = 5.520990047273946? x = 0.6552064023310009? f(x) = 12.09647575142790?
a = 7.245077360672018? x = 0.1311631913780425? f(x) = 10.44030650891055?
a = 7.936142667572221? x = -0.11862762952524599? f(x) = 11.096611974467387?
a = 8.857786578527434? x = -0.4871519778747795? f(x) = 14.02843358892943?
The minimal value of $f(x)$ among the above is obtained in the line:
a = 7.245077360672018? x = 0.1311631913780425? f(x) = 10.44030650891055?
(The value $f(x)$ is smaller than $f(pm1)$ and $f(0)$, corresponding to possible global minimal values at the boundary.)
The corresponding $a$ is a root of $109a^4 - 9044a^2 + 174400=0$, explicitly:
$$
a_* = sqrt{frac1{109}(4522+18sqrt{4441})} .
$$
And the corresponding $x_*=(58-{a_*}^2)/42$ is
$$x_* = frac 3{763}(100-sqrt{4441})approx 0.13116319137804dots .$$
Note: The numerical computations in between were done with a good enough precision to insure we pick the right candidate. So we have a proof. The following (truly) numerical computation is a check.
sage: var('x');
sage: minimize( sqrt(58-42*x) + sqrt( 149-140*sqrt(1-x^2) ), [0.5] )
(0.13116313434376808)
$endgroup$
add a comment |
Your Answer
StackExchange.ifUsing("editor", function () {
return StackExchange.using("mathjaxEditing", function () {
StackExchange.MarkdownEditor.creationCallbacks.add(function (editor, postfix) {
StackExchange.mathjaxEditing.prepareWmdForMathJax(editor, postfix, [["$", "$"], ["\\(","\\)"]]);
});
});
}, "mathjax-editing");
StackExchange.ready(function() {
var channelOptions = {
tags: "".split(" "),
id: "69"
};
initTagRenderer("".split(" "), "".split(" "), channelOptions);
StackExchange.using("externalEditor", function() {
// Have to fire editor after snippets, if snippets enabled
if (StackExchange.settings.snippets.snippetsEnabled) {
StackExchange.using("snippets", function() {
createEditor();
});
}
else {
createEditor();
}
});
function createEditor() {
StackExchange.prepareEditor({
heartbeatType: 'answer',
autoActivateHeartbeat: false,
convertImagesToLinks: true,
noModals: true,
showLowRepImageUploadWarning: true,
reputationToPostImages: 10,
bindNavPrevention: true,
postfix: "",
imageUploader: {
brandingHtml: "Powered by u003ca class="icon-imgur-white" href="https://imgur.com/"u003eu003c/au003e",
contentPolicyHtml: "User contributions licensed under u003ca href="https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/3.0/"u003ecc by-sa 3.0 with attribution requiredu003c/au003e u003ca href="https://stackoverflow.com/legal/content-policy"u003e(content policy)u003c/au003e",
allowUrls: true
},
noCode: true, onDemand: true,
discardSelector: ".discard-answer"
,immediatelyShowMarkdownHelp:true
});
}
});
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function () {
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
});
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
StackExchange.ready(
function () {
StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2fmath.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f3028968%2ffind-minimum-value-of-sqrt58-42x-sqrt149-140-sqrt1-x2%23new-answer', 'question_page');
}
);
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
4 Answers
4
active
oldest
votes
4 Answers
4
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
$begingroup$
Let $(x,y)$ be a point on the unit circle $x^2+y^2=1$. We have to minimize the function:
$$
begin{aligned}
f(x,y)
&=
sqrt{(7x-3)^2+(7y-0)^2} + sqrt{(7x-0)^2+(7y-10)^2}
\
&=
operatorname{Distance}( (7x,7y) , (3,0) )
+
operatorname{Distance}( (7x,7y) , (0,10) )
\
&ge
operatorname{Distance}( (3,0) , (0,10) )
=sqrt{3^2+10^2} ,
end{aligned}
$$
with equality in the $ge$ above only for the point of intersection of the segment with the above distance with the circle of radius $7$ centered in the origin.
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
excellent analysis
$endgroup$
– Umesh shankar
Dec 8 '18 at 9:18
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Let $(x,y)$ be a point on the unit circle $x^2+y^2=1$. We have to minimize the function:
$$
begin{aligned}
f(x,y)
&=
sqrt{(7x-3)^2+(7y-0)^2} + sqrt{(7x-0)^2+(7y-10)^2}
\
&=
operatorname{Distance}( (7x,7y) , (3,0) )
+
operatorname{Distance}( (7x,7y) , (0,10) )
\
&ge
operatorname{Distance}( (3,0) , (0,10) )
=sqrt{3^2+10^2} ,
end{aligned}
$$
with equality in the $ge$ above only for the point of intersection of the segment with the above distance with the circle of radius $7$ centered in the origin.
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
excellent analysis
$endgroup$
– Umesh shankar
Dec 8 '18 at 9:18
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Let $(x,y)$ be a point on the unit circle $x^2+y^2=1$. We have to minimize the function:
$$
begin{aligned}
f(x,y)
&=
sqrt{(7x-3)^2+(7y-0)^2} + sqrt{(7x-0)^2+(7y-10)^2}
\
&=
operatorname{Distance}( (7x,7y) , (3,0) )
+
operatorname{Distance}( (7x,7y) , (0,10) )
\
&ge
operatorname{Distance}( (3,0) , (0,10) )
=sqrt{3^2+10^2} ,
end{aligned}
$$
with equality in the $ge$ above only for the point of intersection of the segment with the above distance with the circle of radius $7$ centered in the origin.
$endgroup$
Let $(x,y)$ be a point on the unit circle $x^2+y^2=1$. We have to minimize the function:
$$
begin{aligned}
f(x,y)
&=
sqrt{(7x-3)^2+(7y-0)^2} + sqrt{(7x-0)^2+(7y-10)^2}
\
&=
operatorname{Distance}( (7x,7y) , (3,0) )
+
operatorname{Distance}( (7x,7y) , (0,10) )
\
&ge
operatorname{Distance}( (3,0) , (0,10) )
=sqrt{3^2+10^2} ,
end{aligned}
$$
with equality in the $ge$ above only for the point of intersection of the segment with the above distance with the circle of radius $7$ centered in the origin.
answered Dec 8 '18 at 7:04
dan_fuleadan_fulea
6,4581312
6,4581312
$begingroup$
excellent analysis
$endgroup$
– Umesh shankar
Dec 8 '18 at 9:18
add a comment |
$begingroup$
excellent analysis
$endgroup$
– Umesh shankar
Dec 8 '18 at 9:18
$begingroup$
excellent analysis
$endgroup$
– Umesh shankar
Dec 8 '18 at 9:18
$begingroup$
excellent analysis
$endgroup$
– Umesh shankar
Dec 8 '18 at 9:18
add a comment |
$begingroup$
hint
As $xin[-1,1]$, you can put
$$x=cos(t)$$ with $$0le tle pi.$$
the function becomes
$$F(t)=$$
$$sqrt{58-42cos(t)}+sqrt{149-140sin(t)}$$
$$frac 17F'(t)=$$
$$frac{3sin(t)}{sqrt{58-42cos(t)}}-frac{10cos(t)}{sqrt{149-140sin(t)}}$$
$F'(t)=0$ gives
$$9sin^2(t)(149-140sin(t))=$$
$$100cos^2(t)(58-42cos(t))$$
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
Say: Yes, quick hint. Should be maybe a comment, not an answer.
$endgroup$
– dan_fulea
Dec 6 '18 at 20:06
$begingroup$
And what about then?
$endgroup$
– greedoid
Dec 6 '18 at 20:11
$begingroup$
@greedoid Diffetentiate with respect to $t$. it is easier.
$endgroup$
– hamam_Abdallah
Dec 6 '18 at 20:11
1
$begingroup$
@greendoid well, we only need the points, not the point of the idea.
$endgroup$
– dan_fulea
Dec 6 '18 at 20:12
$begingroup$
@hamam_Abdallah then it is also simple to type this differential and solve w.r.t. $t$. Just fill in the details please. There is a difference between a possible beginning and and answer.
$endgroup$
– dan_fulea
Dec 6 '18 at 20:13
|
show 3 more comments
$begingroup$
hint
As $xin[-1,1]$, you can put
$$x=cos(t)$$ with $$0le tle pi.$$
the function becomes
$$F(t)=$$
$$sqrt{58-42cos(t)}+sqrt{149-140sin(t)}$$
$$frac 17F'(t)=$$
$$frac{3sin(t)}{sqrt{58-42cos(t)}}-frac{10cos(t)}{sqrt{149-140sin(t)}}$$
$F'(t)=0$ gives
$$9sin^2(t)(149-140sin(t))=$$
$$100cos^2(t)(58-42cos(t))$$
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
Say: Yes, quick hint. Should be maybe a comment, not an answer.
$endgroup$
– dan_fulea
Dec 6 '18 at 20:06
$begingroup$
And what about then?
$endgroup$
– greedoid
Dec 6 '18 at 20:11
$begingroup$
@greedoid Diffetentiate with respect to $t$. it is easier.
$endgroup$
– hamam_Abdallah
Dec 6 '18 at 20:11
1
$begingroup$
@greendoid well, we only need the points, not the point of the idea.
$endgroup$
– dan_fulea
Dec 6 '18 at 20:12
$begingroup$
@hamam_Abdallah then it is also simple to type this differential and solve w.r.t. $t$. Just fill in the details please. There is a difference between a possible beginning and and answer.
$endgroup$
– dan_fulea
Dec 6 '18 at 20:13
|
show 3 more comments
$begingroup$
hint
As $xin[-1,1]$, you can put
$$x=cos(t)$$ with $$0le tle pi.$$
the function becomes
$$F(t)=$$
$$sqrt{58-42cos(t)}+sqrt{149-140sin(t)}$$
$$frac 17F'(t)=$$
$$frac{3sin(t)}{sqrt{58-42cos(t)}}-frac{10cos(t)}{sqrt{149-140sin(t)}}$$
$F'(t)=0$ gives
$$9sin^2(t)(149-140sin(t))=$$
$$100cos^2(t)(58-42cos(t))$$
$endgroup$
hint
As $xin[-1,1]$, you can put
$$x=cos(t)$$ with $$0le tle pi.$$
the function becomes
$$F(t)=$$
$$sqrt{58-42cos(t)}+sqrt{149-140sin(t)}$$
$$frac 17F'(t)=$$
$$frac{3sin(t)}{sqrt{58-42cos(t)}}-frac{10cos(t)}{sqrt{149-140sin(t)}}$$
$F'(t)=0$ gives
$$9sin^2(t)(149-140sin(t))=$$
$$100cos^2(t)(58-42cos(t))$$
edited Dec 6 '18 at 20:30
answered Dec 6 '18 at 20:04
hamam_Abdallahhamam_Abdallah
38k21634
38k21634
$begingroup$
Say: Yes, quick hint. Should be maybe a comment, not an answer.
$endgroup$
– dan_fulea
Dec 6 '18 at 20:06
$begingroup$
And what about then?
$endgroup$
– greedoid
Dec 6 '18 at 20:11
$begingroup$
@greedoid Diffetentiate with respect to $t$. it is easier.
$endgroup$
– hamam_Abdallah
Dec 6 '18 at 20:11
1
$begingroup$
@greendoid well, we only need the points, not the point of the idea.
$endgroup$
– dan_fulea
Dec 6 '18 at 20:12
$begingroup$
@hamam_Abdallah then it is also simple to type this differential and solve w.r.t. $t$. Just fill in the details please. There is a difference between a possible beginning and and answer.
$endgroup$
– dan_fulea
Dec 6 '18 at 20:13
|
show 3 more comments
$begingroup$
Say: Yes, quick hint. Should be maybe a comment, not an answer.
$endgroup$
– dan_fulea
Dec 6 '18 at 20:06
$begingroup$
And what about then?
$endgroup$
– greedoid
Dec 6 '18 at 20:11
$begingroup$
@greedoid Diffetentiate with respect to $t$. it is easier.
$endgroup$
– hamam_Abdallah
Dec 6 '18 at 20:11
1
$begingroup$
@greendoid well, we only need the points, not the point of the idea.
$endgroup$
– dan_fulea
Dec 6 '18 at 20:12
$begingroup$
@hamam_Abdallah then it is also simple to type this differential and solve w.r.t. $t$. Just fill in the details please. There is a difference between a possible beginning and and answer.
$endgroup$
– dan_fulea
Dec 6 '18 at 20:13
$begingroup$
Say: Yes, quick hint. Should be maybe a comment, not an answer.
$endgroup$
– dan_fulea
Dec 6 '18 at 20:06
$begingroup$
Say: Yes, quick hint. Should be maybe a comment, not an answer.
$endgroup$
– dan_fulea
Dec 6 '18 at 20:06
$begingroup$
And what about then?
$endgroup$
– greedoid
Dec 6 '18 at 20:11
$begingroup$
And what about then?
$endgroup$
– greedoid
Dec 6 '18 at 20:11
$begingroup$
@greedoid Diffetentiate with respect to $t$. it is easier.
$endgroup$
– hamam_Abdallah
Dec 6 '18 at 20:11
$begingroup$
@greedoid Diffetentiate with respect to $t$. it is easier.
$endgroup$
– hamam_Abdallah
Dec 6 '18 at 20:11
1
1
$begingroup$
@greendoid well, we only need the points, not the point of the idea.
$endgroup$
– dan_fulea
Dec 6 '18 at 20:12
$begingroup$
@greendoid well, we only need the points, not the point of the idea.
$endgroup$
– dan_fulea
Dec 6 '18 at 20:12
$begingroup$
@hamam_Abdallah then it is also simple to type this differential and solve w.r.t. $t$. Just fill in the details please. There is a difference between a possible beginning and and answer.
$endgroup$
– dan_fulea
Dec 6 '18 at 20:13
$begingroup$
@hamam_Abdallah then it is also simple to type this differential and solve w.r.t. $t$. Just fill in the details please. There is a difference between a possible beginning and and answer.
$endgroup$
– dan_fulea
Dec 6 '18 at 20:13
|
show 3 more comments
$begingroup$
If you are not interested in the analytical zero of $f'(x)$ you could try to find the solution using e.g. the Bisection method, or a Fixed-point iteration, e.g. Newton's method. However, if you are going to be solving it by hand, I admit that this doesn't really help with the tedious part – in fact, it is probably worse.
Edit: Also, as noted in a comment, your differentiation is not correct. Check your second term.
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
If you are not interested in the analytical zero of $f'(x)$ you could try to find the solution using e.g. the Bisection method, or a Fixed-point iteration, e.g. Newton's method. However, if you are going to be solving it by hand, I admit that this doesn't really help with the tedious part – in fact, it is probably worse.
Edit: Also, as noted in a comment, your differentiation is not correct. Check your second term.
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
If you are not interested in the analytical zero of $f'(x)$ you could try to find the solution using e.g. the Bisection method, or a Fixed-point iteration, e.g. Newton's method. However, if you are going to be solving it by hand, I admit that this doesn't really help with the tedious part – in fact, it is probably worse.
Edit: Also, as noted in a comment, your differentiation is not correct. Check your second term.
$endgroup$
If you are not interested in the analytical zero of $f'(x)$ you could try to find the solution using e.g. the Bisection method, or a Fixed-point iteration, e.g. Newton's method. However, if you are going to be solving it by hand, I admit that this doesn't really help with the tedious part – in fact, it is probably worse.
Edit: Also, as noted in a comment, your differentiation is not correct. Check your second term.
answered Dec 6 '18 at 20:06
Erik AndréErik André
857
857
add a comment |
add a comment |
$begingroup$
In the following, $x$ runs in the interval $J=[-1,1]$.
We introduce the functions of $xin J$
$$
begin{aligned}
A(x) &= sqrt{58-42 x} ,\
B(x) &= sqrt{149-140sqrt{ 1-x^2}} .\
&qquadtext{Then we have }\
10^2(58-A^2)^2 + 3^2(149-B^2)^2 &= 420^2 .
end{aligned}
$$
So we can formulate an equivalent problem:
Minimize $a+b$ constrained to $a$ between $sqrt{58pm 42}$ (i.e. $3$ and $10$), and $b$ between $sqrt{149pm 140}$ (i.e. $3$ and $17$) and $$10^2(58-a^2)^2+3^2(149-b^2)^2= 420^2 .$$
So we search Lagrange multiplicators for the function
$$F(a,b;t)=(a+b)-t(10^2(58-a^2)^2+3^2(149-b^2)^2-420^2)$$
to get the local extremal points. (Then we still have to compare with the marginal values.)
We obtain the following system:
$$
left{
begin{aligned}
0 &= F'_a(a,b;t) = 1+10^2;4at;(58-a^2) ,\
0 &= F'_b(a,b;t) = 1+3^2;4bt;(149-b^2) ,\
0 &= F'_t(a,b;t) = 10^2(58-a^2)^2+3^2(149-b^2)^2- 420^2 .
end{aligned}
right.
$$
Algebraically, we have only a slight improvement, compared with the equation $f'(x)=0$, which was the intention in the OP, where we have some radicals. Above we have a purely algebraic system, the slight improvement, and still have to start the solution.
The idea is elimination.
We first eliminate $4t$, which appears linearly, getting:
$$
left{
begin{aligned}
10^2;a;(58-a^2) &= 3^2;b;(149-b^2) ,\
10^2(58-a^2)^2 &+3^2(149-b^2)^2= 420^2 .
end{aligned}
right.
$$
One possible elimination idea (of $b$) from this point is as follows.
We are squaring the first equation, so we have an expression of $b^2(149-b^2)^2$ in terms of $a$, so $(149-b^2)^2$ is a polynomial in $a$ divided by $b^2$. We insert this expression of $(149-b^2)^2$ in the second equation, thus obtaining a formula for $b^2$ as a polynomial in $a$. We insert this $b^2$ in the second equation, thus obtaining an equation only in $a$. Of course, i cannot stop here and say "from here it simple, details left to the reader"... This bloody job is explicitly as follows, using a computer,
sage in my case:
var('a,b,bb');
EXPR = ( 10^2*a*(58-a^2) / 3^2 )^2 / bb # (149-b^2)^2
# bb is above a new variable for b^2
eq = solve( 10^2*(58-a^2)^2 + 3^2*EXPR == 420^2, bb )[0]
print "b^2 is the solution bb of:n%s" % eq
bb = eq.rhs()
a_poly = 10^2*(58-a^2)^2 + 3^2*(149-bb)^2 - 420^2
print "a is a zero point for the expression:"
print a_poly.factor()
Results:
b^2 is the solution bb of:
bb == -100/9*(a^6 - 116*a^4 + 3364*a^2)/(a^4 - 116*a^2 + 1600)
a is a zero point for the expression:
1/9
*(100*a^8 - 13400*a^6 + 398509*a^4 + 2317356*a^2 + 47534400)
*(109*a^4 - 9044*a^2 + 174400)
/((a + 10)^2*(a + 4)^2*(a - 4)^2*(a - 10)^2)
(The last expression was manually broken to fit in page.)
So $a$ is a root of the one or the other polynomial in the numerator. So $a^2$ is either the root of $100 U^4 - 13400U^3 + 398509 U^2 + 2317356 U + 47534400$, or the root or $109 U^2 - 9044 U + 174400$.
I did the above "in a human manner", and against my taste and conviction.
Let us put it an other way.
Of course, we cannot expect to have "simple solutions" and a "simple elimination by quick hint", so let us the computers do the work for us, then we can still decide...
Using sage, we eliminate blindly:
sage: R.<a,b,t> = PolynomialRing(QQ)
sage: R
Multivariate Polynomial Ring in a, b, t over Rational Field
sage: F = a+b - t*( (10*(58-a^2))^2 + (3*(149-b^2))^2 - 420^2 )
sage: J = R.ideal( diff(F,a), diff(F,b), diff(F,t) )
sage: K = J.elimination_ideal([b,t])
sage: K
Ideal (10900*a^12 - 2365000*a^10 + 182067081*a^8 - 5688483592*a^6 + 53723051536*a^4 - 25754227200*a^2 + 8289999360000)
of Multivariate Polynomial Ring in a, b, t over Rational Field
sage: K.gens()[0].factor()
(109*a^4 - 9044*a^2 + 174400)
* (100*a^8 - 13400*a^6 + 398509*a^4 + 2317356*a^2 + 47534400)
and this rather reflects my way to work.
We have thus all possible points / all candidates $a=sqrt{58-42x}$, so that calculating the corresponing $x$ (or the corresponding $b$) and inserting in $f$ (or $F$) can lead to a local minimum.
Let us finally ask for the numerical values, to finish, and get an answer. For each root $a$ of the above polynomial we compute numerically (to a good precision) the value of $f$. (Since the OP may not be interested in $F$.)
f(x) = sqrt(58-42*x) + sqrt(149-140*sqrt(1-x^2))
R.<a> = PolynomialRing(QQ)
P = (109*a^4 - 9044*a^2 + 174400)
* (100*a^8 - 13400*a^6 + 398509*a^4 + 2317356*a^2 + 47534400)
for aroot in P.roots(ring=AA, multiplicities=False):
if aroot < 3 or aroot > 10:
print "a = %s :: REJECTED" % aroot
continue
x = (58-aroot^2)/42
print "a = %s x = %s f(x) = %s" % (aroot, x, QQbar(f(x)))
We get:
a = -8.857786578527434? :: REJECTED
a = -7.936142667572221? :: REJECTED
a = -7.245077360672018? :: REJECTED
a = -5.520990047273946? :: REJECTED
a = 5.520990047273946? x = 0.6552064023310009? f(x) = 12.09647575142790?
a = 7.245077360672018? x = 0.1311631913780425? f(x) = 10.44030650891055?
a = 7.936142667572221? x = -0.11862762952524599? f(x) = 11.096611974467387?
a = 8.857786578527434? x = -0.4871519778747795? f(x) = 14.02843358892943?
The minimal value of $f(x)$ among the above is obtained in the line:
a = 7.245077360672018? x = 0.1311631913780425? f(x) = 10.44030650891055?
(The value $f(x)$ is smaller than $f(pm1)$ and $f(0)$, corresponding to possible global minimal values at the boundary.)
The corresponding $a$ is a root of $109a^4 - 9044a^2 + 174400=0$, explicitly:
$$
a_* = sqrt{frac1{109}(4522+18sqrt{4441})} .
$$
And the corresponding $x_*=(58-{a_*}^2)/42$ is
$$x_* = frac 3{763}(100-sqrt{4441})approx 0.13116319137804dots .$$
Note: The numerical computations in between were done with a good enough precision to insure we pick the right candidate. So we have a proof. The following (truly) numerical computation is a check.
sage: var('x');
sage: minimize( sqrt(58-42*x) + sqrt( 149-140*sqrt(1-x^2) ), [0.5] )
(0.13116313434376808)
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
In the following, $x$ runs in the interval $J=[-1,1]$.
We introduce the functions of $xin J$
$$
begin{aligned}
A(x) &= sqrt{58-42 x} ,\
B(x) &= sqrt{149-140sqrt{ 1-x^2}} .\
&qquadtext{Then we have }\
10^2(58-A^2)^2 + 3^2(149-B^2)^2 &= 420^2 .
end{aligned}
$$
So we can formulate an equivalent problem:
Minimize $a+b$ constrained to $a$ between $sqrt{58pm 42}$ (i.e. $3$ and $10$), and $b$ between $sqrt{149pm 140}$ (i.e. $3$ and $17$) and $$10^2(58-a^2)^2+3^2(149-b^2)^2= 420^2 .$$
So we search Lagrange multiplicators for the function
$$F(a,b;t)=(a+b)-t(10^2(58-a^2)^2+3^2(149-b^2)^2-420^2)$$
to get the local extremal points. (Then we still have to compare with the marginal values.)
We obtain the following system:
$$
left{
begin{aligned}
0 &= F'_a(a,b;t) = 1+10^2;4at;(58-a^2) ,\
0 &= F'_b(a,b;t) = 1+3^2;4bt;(149-b^2) ,\
0 &= F'_t(a,b;t) = 10^2(58-a^2)^2+3^2(149-b^2)^2- 420^2 .
end{aligned}
right.
$$
Algebraically, we have only a slight improvement, compared with the equation $f'(x)=0$, which was the intention in the OP, where we have some radicals. Above we have a purely algebraic system, the slight improvement, and still have to start the solution.
The idea is elimination.
We first eliminate $4t$, which appears linearly, getting:
$$
left{
begin{aligned}
10^2;a;(58-a^2) &= 3^2;b;(149-b^2) ,\
10^2(58-a^2)^2 &+3^2(149-b^2)^2= 420^2 .
end{aligned}
right.
$$
One possible elimination idea (of $b$) from this point is as follows.
We are squaring the first equation, so we have an expression of $b^2(149-b^2)^2$ in terms of $a$, so $(149-b^2)^2$ is a polynomial in $a$ divided by $b^2$. We insert this expression of $(149-b^2)^2$ in the second equation, thus obtaining a formula for $b^2$ as a polynomial in $a$. We insert this $b^2$ in the second equation, thus obtaining an equation only in $a$. Of course, i cannot stop here and say "from here it simple, details left to the reader"... This bloody job is explicitly as follows, using a computer,
sage in my case:
var('a,b,bb');
EXPR = ( 10^2*a*(58-a^2) / 3^2 )^2 / bb # (149-b^2)^2
# bb is above a new variable for b^2
eq = solve( 10^2*(58-a^2)^2 + 3^2*EXPR == 420^2, bb )[0]
print "b^2 is the solution bb of:n%s" % eq
bb = eq.rhs()
a_poly = 10^2*(58-a^2)^2 + 3^2*(149-bb)^2 - 420^2
print "a is a zero point for the expression:"
print a_poly.factor()
Results:
b^2 is the solution bb of:
bb == -100/9*(a^6 - 116*a^4 + 3364*a^2)/(a^4 - 116*a^2 + 1600)
a is a zero point for the expression:
1/9
*(100*a^8 - 13400*a^6 + 398509*a^4 + 2317356*a^2 + 47534400)
*(109*a^4 - 9044*a^2 + 174400)
/((a + 10)^2*(a + 4)^2*(a - 4)^2*(a - 10)^2)
(The last expression was manually broken to fit in page.)
So $a$ is a root of the one or the other polynomial in the numerator. So $a^2$ is either the root of $100 U^4 - 13400U^3 + 398509 U^2 + 2317356 U + 47534400$, or the root or $109 U^2 - 9044 U + 174400$.
I did the above "in a human manner", and against my taste and conviction.
Let us put it an other way.
Of course, we cannot expect to have "simple solutions" and a "simple elimination by quick hint", so let us the computers do the work for us, then we can still decide...
Using sage, we eliminate blindly:
sage: R.<a,b,t> = PolynomialRing(QQ)
sage: R
Multivariate Polynomial Ring in a, b, t over Rational Field
sage: F = a+b - t*( (10*(58-a^2))^2 + (3*(149-b^2))^2 - 420^2 )
sage: J = R.ideal( diff(F,a), diff(F,b), diff(F,t) )
sage: K = J.elimination_ideal([b,t])
sage: K
Ideal (10900*a^12 - 2365000*a^10 + 182067081*a^8 - 5688483592*a^6 + 53723051536*a^4 - 25754227200*a^2 + 8289999360000)
of Multivariate Polynomial Ring in a, b, t over Rational Field
sage: K.gens()[0].factor()
(109*a^4 - 9044*a^2 + 174400)
* (100*a^8 - 13400*a^6 + 398509*a^4 + 2317356*a^2 + 47534400)
and this rather reflects my way to work.
We have thus all possible points / all candidates $a=sqrt{58-42x}$, so that calculating the corresponing $x$ (or the corresponding $b$) and inserting in $f$ (or $F$) can lead to a local minimum.
Let us finally ask for the numerical values, to finish, and get an answer. For each root $a$ of the above polynomial we compute numerically (to a good precision) the value of $f$. (Since the OP may not be interested in $F$.)
f(x) = sqrt(58-42*x) + sqrt(149-140*sqrt(1-x^2))
R.<a> = PolynomialRing(QQ)
P = (109*a^4 - 9044*a^2 + 174400)
* (100*a^8 - 13400*a^6 + 398509*a^4 + 2317356*a^2 + 47534400)
for aroot in P.roots(ring=AA, multiplicities=False):
if aroot < 3 or aroot > 10:
print "a = %s :: REJECTED" % aroot
continue
x = (58-aroot^2)/42
print "a = %s x = %s f(x) = %s" % (aroot, x, QQbar(f(x)))
We get:
a = -8.857786578527434? :: REJECTED
a = -7.936142667572221? :: REJECTED
a = -7.245077360672018? :: REJECTED
a = -5.520990047273946? :: REJECTED
a = 5.520990047273946? x = 0.6552064023310009? f(x) = 12.09647575142790?
a = 7.245077360672018? x = 0.1311631913780425? f(x) = 10.44030650891055?
a = 7.936142667572221? x = -0.11862762952524599? f(x) = 11.096611974467387?
a = 8.857786578527434? x = -0.4871519778747795? f(x) = 14.02843358892943?
The minimal value of $f(x)$ among the above is obtained in the line:
a = 7.245077360672018? x = 0.1311631913780425? f(x) = 10.44030650891055?
(The value $f(x)$ is smaller than $f(pm1)$ and $f(0)$, corresponding to possible global minimal values at the boundary.)
The corresponding $a$ is a root of $109a^4 - 9044a^2 + 174400=0$, explicitly:
$$
a_* = sqrt{frac1{109}(4522+18sqrt{4441})} .
$$
And the corresponding $x_*=(58-{a_*}^2)/42$ is
$$x_* = frac 3{763}(100-sqrt{4441})approx 0.13116319137804dots .$$
Note: The numerical computations in between were done with a good enough precision to insure we pick the right candidate. So we have a proof. The following (truly) numerical computation is a check.
sage: var('x');
sage: minimize( sqrt(58-42*x) + sqrt( 149-140*sqrt(1-x^2) ), [0.5] )
(0.13116313434376808)
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
In the following, $x$ runs in the interval $J=[-1,1]$.
We introduce the functions of $xin J$
$$
begin{aligned}
A(x) &= sqrt{58-42 x} ,\
B(x) &= sqrt{149-140sqrt{ 1-x^2}} .\
&qquadtext{Then we have }\
10^2(58-A^2)^2 + 3^2(149-B^2)^2 &= 420^2 .
end{aligned}
$$
So we can formulate an equivalent problem:
Minimize $a+b$ constrained to $a$ between $sqrt{58pm 42}$ (i.e. $3$ and $10$), and $b$ between $sqrt{149pm 140}$ (i.e. $3$ and $17$) and $$10^2(58-a^2)^2+3^2(149-b^2)^2= 420^2 .$$
So we search Lagrange multiplicators for the function
$$F(a,b;t)=(a+b)-t(10^2(58-a^2)^2+3^2(149-b^2)^2-420^2)$$
to get the local extremal points. (Then we still have to compare with the marginal values.)
We obtain the following system:
$$
left{
begin{aligned}
0 &= F'_a(a,b;t) = 1+10^2;4at;(58-a^2) ,\
0 &= F'_b(a,b;t) = 1+3^2;4bt;(149-b^2) ,\
0 &= F'_t(a,b;t) = 10^2(58-a^2)^2+3^2(149-b^2)^2- 420^2 .
end{aligned}
right.
$$
Algebraically, we have only a slight improvement, compared with the equation $f'(x)=0$, which was the intention in the OP, where we have some radicals. Above we have a purely algebraic system, the slight improvement, and still have to start the solution.
The idea is elimination.
We first eliminate $4t$, which appears linearly, getting:
$$
left{
begin{aligned}
10^2;a;(58-a^2) &= 3^2;b;(149-b^2) ,\
10^2(58-a^2)^2 &+3^2(149-b^2)^2= 420^2 .
end{aligned}
right.
$$
One possible elimination idea (of $b$) from this point is as follows.
We are squaring the first equation, so we have an expression of $b^2(149-b^2)^2$ in terms of $a$, so $(149-b^2)^2$ is a polynomial in $a$ divided by $b^2$. We insert this expression of $(149-b^2)^2$ in the second equation, thus obtaining a formula for $b^2$ as a polynomial in $a$. We insert this $b^2$ in the second equation, thus obtaining an equation only in $a$. Of course, i cannot stop here and say "from here it simple, details left to the reader"... This bloody job is explicitly as follows, using a computer,
sage in my case:
var('a,b,bb');
EXPR = ( 10^2*a*(58-a^2) / 3^2 )^2 / bb # (149-b^2)^2
# bb is above a new variable for b^2
eq = solve( 10^2*(58-a^2)^2 + 3^2*EXPR == 420^2, bb )[0]
print "b^2 is the solution bb of:n%s" % eq
bb = eq.rhs()
a_poly = 10^2*(58-a^2)^2 + 3^2*(149-bb)^2 - 420^2
print "a is a zero point for the expression:"
print a_poly.factor()
Results:
b^2 is the solution bb of:
bb == -100/9*(a^6 - 116*a^4 + 3364*a^2)/(a^4 - 116*a^2 + 1600)
a is a zero point for the expression:
1/9
*(100*a^8 - 13400*a^6 + 398509*a^4 + 2317356*a^2 + 47534400)
*(109*a^4 - 9044*a^2 + 174400)
/((a + 10)^2*(a + 4)^2*(a - 4)^2*(a - 10)^2)
(The last expression was manually broken to fit in page.)
So $a$ is a root of the one or the other polynomial in the numerator. So $a^2$ is either the root of $100 U^4 - 13400U^3 + 398509 U^2 + 2317356 U + 47534400$, or the root or $109 U^2 - 9044 U + 174400$.
I did the above "in a human manner", and against my taste and conviction.
Let us put it an other way.
Of course, we cannot expect to have "simple solutions" and a "simple elimination by quick hint", so let us the computers do the work for us, then we can still decide...
Using sage, we eliminate blindly:
sage: R.<a,b,t> = PolynomialRing(QQ)
sage: R
Multivariate Polynomial Ring in a, b, t over Rational Field
sage: F = a+b - t*( (10*(58-a^2))^2 + (3*(149-b^2))^2 - 420^2 )
sage: J = R.ideal( diff(F,a), diff(F,b), diff(F,t) )
sage: K = J.elimination_ideal([b,t])
sage: K
Ideal (10900*a^12 - 2365000*a^10 + 182067081*a^8 - 5688483592*a^6 + 53723051536*a^4 - 25754227200*a^2 + 8289999360000)
of Multivariate Polynomial Ring in a, b, t over Rational Field
sage: K.gens()[0].factor()
(109*a^4 - 9044*a^2 + 174400)
* (100*a^8 - 13400*a^6 + 398509*a^4 + 2317356*a^2 + 47534400)
and this rather reflects my way to work.
We have thus all possible points / all candidates $a=sqrt{58-42x}$, so that calculating the corresponing $x$ (or the corresponding $b$) and inserting in $f$ (or $F$) can lead to a local minimum.
Let us finally ask for the numerical values, to finish, and get an answer. For each root $a$ of the above polynomial we compute numerically (to a good precision) the value of $f$. (Since the OP may not be interested in $F$.)
f(x) = sqrt(58-42*x) + sqrt(149-140*sqrt(1-x^2))
R.<a> = PolynomialRing(QQ)
P = (109*a^4 - 9044*a^2 + 174400)
* (100*a^8 - 13400*a^6 + 398509*a^4 + 2317356*a^2 + 47534400)
for aroot in P.roots(ring=AA, multiplicities=False):
if aroot < 3 or aroot > 10:
print "a = %s :: REJECTED" % aroot
continue
x = (58-aroot^2)/42
print "a = %s x = %s f(x) = %s" % (aroot, x, QQbar(f(x)))
We get:
a = -8.857786578527434? :: REJECTED
a = -7.936142667572221? :: REJECTED
a = -7.245077360672018? :: REJECTED
a = -5.520990047273946? :: REJECTED
a = 5.520990047273946? x = 0.6552064023310009? f(x) = 12.09647575142790?
a = 7.245077360672018? x = 0.1311631913780425? f(x) = 10.44030650891055?
a = 7.936142667572221? x = -0.11862762952524599? f(x) = 11.096611974467387?
a = 8.857786578527434? x = -0.4871519778747795? f(x) = 14.02843358892943?
The minimal value of $f(x)$ among the above is obtained in the line:
a = 7.245077360672018? x = 0.1311631913780425? f(x) = 10.44030650891055?
(The value $f(x)$ is smaller than $f(pm1)$ and $f(0)$, corresponding to possible global minimal values at the boundary.)
The corresponding $a$ is a root of $109a^4 - 9044a^2 + 174400=0$, explicitly:
$$
a_* = sqrt{frac1{109}(4522+18sqrt{4441})} .
$$
And the corresponding $x_*=(58-{a_*}^2)/42$ is
$$x_* = frac 3{763}(100-sqrt{4441})approx 0.13116319137804dots .$$
Note: The numerical computations in between were done with a good enough precision to insure we pick the right candidate. So we have a proof. The following (truly) numerical computation is a check.
sage: var('x');
sage: minimize( sqrt(58-42*x) + sqrt( 149-140*sqrt(1-x^2) ), [0.5] )
(0.13116313434376808)
$endgroup$
In the following, $x$ runs in the interval $J=[-1,1]$.
We introduce the functions of $xin J$
$$
begin{aligned}
A(x) &= sqrt{58-42 x} ,\
B(x) &= sqrt{149-140sqrt{ 1-x^2}} .\
&qquadtext{Then we have }\
10^2(58-A^2)^2 + 3^2(149-B^2)^2 &= 420^2 .
end{aligned}
$$
So we can formulate an equivalent problem:
Minimize $a+b$ constrained to $a$ between $sqrt{58pm 42}$ (i.e. $3$ and $10$), and $b$ between $sqrt{149pm 140}$ (i.e. $3$ and $17$) and $$10^2(58-a^2)^2+3^2(149-b^2)^2= 420^2 .$$
So we search Lagrange multiplicators for the function
$$F(a,b;t)=(a+b)-t(10^2(58-a^2)^2+3^2(149-b^2)^2-420^2)$$
to get the local extremal points. (Then we still have to compare with the marginal values.)
We obtain the following system:
$$
left{
begin{aligned}
0 &= F'_a(a,b;t) = 1+10^2;4at;(58-a^2) ,\
0 &= F'_b(a,b;t) = 1+3^2;4bt;(149-b^2) ,\
0 &= F'_t(a,b;t) = 10^2(58-a^2)^2+3^2(149-b^2)^2- 420^2 .
end{aligned}
right.
$$
Algebraically, we have only a slight improvement, compared with the equation $f'(x)=0$, which was the intention in the OP, where we have some radicals. Above we have a purely algebraic system, the slight improvement, and still have to start the solution.
The idea is elimination.
We first eliminate $4t$, which appears linearly, getting:
$$
left{
begin{aligned}
10^2;a;(58-a^2) &= 3^2;b;(149-b^2) ,\
10^2(58-a^2)^2 &+3^2(149-b^2)^2= 420^2 .
end{aligned}
right.
$$
One possible elimination idea (of $b$) from this point is as follows.
We are squaring the first equation, so we have an expression of $b^2(149-b^2)^2$ in terms of $a$, so $(149-b^2)^2$ is a polynomial in $a$ divided by $b^2$. We insert this expression of $(149-b^2)^2$ in the second equation, thus obtaining a formula for $b^2$ as a polynomial in $a$. We insert this $b^2$ in the second equation, thus obtaining an equation only in $a$. Of course, i cannot stop here and say "from here it simple, details left to the reader"... This bloody job is explicitly as follows, using a computer,
sage in my case:
var('a,b,bb');
EXPR = ( 10^2*a*(58-a^2) / 3^2 )^2 / bb # (149-b^2)^2
# bb is above a new variable for b^2
eq = solve( 10^2*(58-a^2)^2 + 3^2*EXPR == 420^2, bb )[0]
print "b^2 is the solution bb of:n%s" % eq
bb = eq.rhs()
a_poly = 10^2*(58-a^2)^2 + 3^2*(149-bb)^2 - 420^2
print "a is a zero point for the expression:"
print a_poly.factor()
Results:
b^2 is the solution bb of:
bb == -100/9*(a^6 - 116*a^4 + 3364*a^2)/(a^4 - 116*a^2 + 1600)
a is a zero point for the expression:
1/9
*(100*a^8 - 13400*a^6 + 398509*a^4 + 2317356*a^2 + 47534400)
*(109*a^4 - 9044*a^2 + 174400)
/((a + 10)^2*(a + 4)^2*(a - 4)^2*(a - 10)^2)
(The last expression was manually broken to fit in page.)
So $a$ is a root of the one or the other polynomial in the numerator. So $a^2$ is either the root of $100 U^4 - 13400U^3 + 398509 U^2 + 2317356 U + 47534400$, or the root or $109 U^2 - 9044 U + 174400$.
I did the above "in a human manner", and against my taste and conviction.
Let us put it an other way.
Of course, we cannot expect to have "simple solutions" and a "simple elimination by quick hint", so let us the computers do the work for us, then we can still decide...
Using sage, we eliminate blindly:
sage: R.<a,b,t> = PolynomialRing(QQ)
sage: R
Multivariate Polynomial Ring in a, b, t over Rational Field
sage: F = a+b - t*( (10*(58-a^2))^2 + (3*(149-b^2))^2 - 420^2 )
sage: J = R.ideal( diff(F,a), diff(F,b), diff(F,t) )
sage: K = J.elimination_ideal([b,t])
sage: K
Ideal (10900*a^12 - 2365000*a^10 + 182067081*a^8 - 5688483592*a^6 + 53723051536*a^4 - 25754227200*a^2 + 8289999360000)
of Multivariate Polynomial Ring in a, b, t over Rational Field
sage: K.gens()[0].factor()
(109*a^4 - 9044*a^2 + 174400)
* (100*a^8 - 13400*a^6 + 398509*a^4 + 2317356*a^2 + 47534400)
and this rather reflects my way to work.
We have thus all possible points / all candidates $a=sqrt{58-42x}$, so that calculating the corresponing $x$ (or the corresponding $b$) and inserting in $f$ (or $F$) can lead to a local minimum.
Let us finally ask for the numerical values, to finish, and get an answer. For each root $a$ of the above polynomial we compute numerically (to a good precision) the value of $f$. (Since the OP may not be interested in $F$.)
f(x) = sqrt(58-42*x) + sqrt(149-140*sqrt(1-x^2))
R.<a> = PolynomialRing(QQ)
P = (109*a^4 - 9044*a^2 + 174400)
* (100*a^8 - 13400*a^6 + 398509*a^4 + 2317356*a^2 + 47534400)
for aroot in P.roots(ring=AA, multiplicities=False):
if aroot < 3 or aroot > 10:
print "a = %s :: REJECTED" % aroot
continue
x = (58-aroot^2)/42
print "a = %s x = %s f(x) = %s" % (aroot, x, QQbar(f(x)))
We get:
a = -8.857786578527434? :: REJECTED
a = -7.936142667572221? :: REJECTED
a = -7.245077360672018? :: REJECTED
a = -5.520990047273946? :: REJECTED
a = 5.520990047273946? x = 0.6552064023310009? f(x) = 12.09647575142790?
a = 7.245077360672018? x = 0.1311631913780425? f(x) = 10.44030650891055?
a = 7.936142667572221? x = -0.11862762952524599? f(x) = 11.096611974467387?
a = 8.857786578527434? x = -0.4871519778747795? f(x) = 14.02843358892943?
The minimal value of $f(x)$ among the above is obtained in the line:
a = 7.245077360672018? x = 0.1311631913780425? f(x) = 10.44030650891055?
(The value $f(x)$ is smaller than $f(pm1)$ and $f(0)$, corresponding to possible global minimal values at the boundary.)
The corresponding $a$ is a root of $109a^4 - 9044a^2 + 174400=0$, explicitly:
$$
a_* = sqrt{frac1{109}(4522+18sqrt{4441})} .
$$
And the corresponding $x_*=(58-{a_*}^2)/42$ is
$$x_* = frac 3{763}(100-sqrt{4441})approx 0.13116319137804dots .$$
Note: The numerical computations in between were done with a good enough precision to insure we pick the right candidate. So we have a proof. The following (truly) numerical computation is a check.
sage: var('x');
sage: minimize( sqrt(58-42*x) + sqrt( 149-140*sqrt(1-x^2) ), [0.5] )
(0.13116313434376808)
answered Dec 6 '18 at 23:49
dan_fuleadan_fulea
6,4581312
6,4581312
add a comment |
add a comment |
Thanks for contributing an answer to Mathematics Stack Exchange!
- Please be sure to answer the question. Provide details and share your research!
But avoid …
- Asking for help, clarification, or responding to other answers.
- Making statements based on opinion; back them up with references or personal experience.
Use MathJax to format equations. MathJax reference.
To learn more, see our tips on writing great answers.
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function () {
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
});
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
StackExchange.ready(
function () {
StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2fmath.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f3028968%2ffind-minimum-value-of-sqrt58-42x-sqrt149-140-sqrt1-x2%23new-answer', 'question_page');
}
);
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function () {
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
});
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function () {
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
});
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function () {
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
});
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
$begingroup$
You haven't differentiated it correctly.
$endgroup$
– Shubham Johri
Dec 6 '18 at 20:05
$begingroup$
According to wolframalpha, the minimizing $x$ is very ugly: $x=frac{300-3sqrt{4441}}{763}$. The minimum value ain't so bad: $sqrt{109}$. So, even if you did the differentiation correctly you would get some inconvenient quadratic to deal with.
$endgroup$
– user614671
Dec 6 '18 at 20:16