What could a QA engineer do when a project is in an early stage?












10















Good day, beautiful and smart people!



We've been prototyping an application and it is more or less at the MVP stage and the customer, seeing the minimum desired functionality, is taking things seriously and wants further development.



At this point in time, we have a part-time tester with experience in test automation who is eager to apply his skills into practice and try a test automation framework he's been wanting to try for a long time.



At the same time, this is a very early time to invest in test automation as the application changes very frequently both on the backend and frontend sides.



For the moment, we are asking the QA engineer to go through customer business requirements and to validate the existing functionality against them as well as familiarize himself with the roadmap.



What other things could we ask him to do? What would be the best use of QA engineer's time while the project is in an early stage?










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  • 1





    When you say "try a test automation framework he's been wanting to try for a long time" does it mean he never used this framework before? It could be a good idea to get familiarized with it early.

    – the_lotus
    Dec 13 '18 at 18:56











  • @the_lotus right, he went through tutorials and is familiar with the general concepts, but yeah, I can see that as one possible way to go. Thanks.

    – alecxe
    Dec 13 '18 at 18:57













  • Give them (inflatable, if legal insists) bats to beat proper coding practices into the developers. The earlier you realize your developers are being naughty the easier to correct it.

    – TemporalWolf
    Dec 13 '18 at 21:18











  • @TemporalWolf that is hilarious, I have a privilege to experience and understand that from both the sides :D

    – alecxe
    Dec 13 '18 at 21:21
















10















Good day, beautiful and smart people!



We've been prototyping an application and it is more or less at the MVP stage and the customer, seeing the minimum desired functionality, is taking things seriously and wants further development.



At this point in time, we have a part-time tester with experience in test automation who is eager to apply his skills into practice and try a test automation framework he's been wanting to try for a long time.



At the same time, this is a very early time to invest in test automation as the application changes very frequently both on the backend and frontend sides.



For the moment, we are asking the QA engineer to go through customer business requirements and to validate the existing functionality against them as well as familiarize himself with the roadmap.



What other things could we ask him to do? What would be the best use of QA engineer's time while the project is in an early stage?










share|improve this question




















  • 1





    When you say "try a test automation framework he's been wanting to try for a long time" does it mean he never used this framework before? It could be a good idea to get familiarized with it early.

    – the_lotus
    Dec 13 '18 at 18:56











  • @the_lotus right, he went through tutorials and is familiar with the general concepts, but yeah, I can see that as one possible way to go. Thanks.

    – alecxe
    Dec 13 '18 at 18:57













  • Give them (inflatable, if legal insists) bats to beat proper coding practices into the developers. The earlier you realize your developers are being naughty the easier to correct it.

    – TemporalWolf
    Dec 13 '18 at 21:18











  • @TemporalWolf that is hilarious, I have a privilege to experience and understand that from both the sides :D

    – alecxe
    Dec 13 '18 at 21:21














10












10








10


6






Good day, beautiful and smart people!



We've been prototyping an application and it is more or less at the MVP stage and the customer, seeing the minimum desired functionality, is taking things seriously and wants further development.



At this point in time, we have a part-time tester with experience in test automation who is eager to apply his skills into practice and try a test automation framework he's been wanting to try for a long time.



At the same time, this is a very early time to invest in test automation as the application changes very frequently both on the backend and frontend sides.



For the moment, we are asking the QA engineer to go through customer business requirements and to validate the existing functionality against them as well as familiarize himself with the roadmap.



What other things could we ask him to do? What would be the best use of QA engineer's time while the project is in an early stage?










share|improve this question
















Good day, beautiful and smart people!



We've been prototyping an application and it is more or less at the MVP stage and the customer, seeing the minimum desired functionality, is taking things seriously and wants further development.



At this point in time, we have a part-time tester with experience in test automation who is eager to apply his skills into practice and try a test automation framework he's been wanting to try for a long time.



At the same time, this is a very early time to invest in test automation as the application changes very frequently both on the backend and frontend sides.



For the moment, we are asking the QA engineer to go through customer business requirements and to validate the existing functionality against them as well as familiarize himself with the roadmap.



What other things could we ask him to do? What would be the best use of QA engineer's time while the project is in an early stage?







test-management management requirements-validation end-to-end e2e






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share|improve this question













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share|improve this question








edited Dec 29 '18 at 13:44







alecxe

















asked Dec 13 '18 at 2:08









alecxealecxe

7,57163384




7,57163384








  • 1





    When you say "try a test automation framework he's been wanting to try for a long time" does it mean he never used this framework before? It could be a good idea to get familiarized with it early.

    – the_lotus
    Dec 13 '18 at 18:56











  • @the_lotus right, he went through tutorials and is familiar with the general concepts, but yeah, I can see that as one possible way to go. Thanks.

    – alecxe
    Dec 13 '18 at 18:57













  • Give them (inflatable, if legal insists) bats to beat proper coding practices into the developers. The earlier you realize your developers are being naughty the easier to correct it.

    – TemporalWolf
    Dec 13 '18 at 21:18











  • @TemporalWolf that is hilarious, I have a privilege to experience and understand that from both the sides :D

    – alecxe
    Dec 13 '18 at 21:21














  • 1





    When you say "try a test automation framework he's been wanting to try for a long time" does it mean he never used this framework before? It could be a good idea to get familiarized with it early.

    – the_lotus
    Dec 13 '18 at 18:56











  • @the_lotus right, he went through tutorials and is familiar with the general concepts, but yeah, I can see that as one possible way to go. Thanks.

    – alecxe
    Dec 13 '18 at 18:57













  • Give them (inflatable, if legal insists) bats to beat proper coding practices into the developers. The earlier you realize your developers are being naughty the easier to correct it.

    – TemporalWolf
    Dec 13 '18 at 21:18











  • @TemporalWolf that is hilarious, I have a privilege to experience and understand that from both the sides :D

    – alecxe
    Dec 13 '18 at 21:21








1




1





When you say "try a test automation framework he's been wanting to try for a long time" does it mean he never used this framework before? It could be a good idea to get familiarized with it early.

– the_lotus
Dec 13 '18 at 18:56





When you say "try a test automation framework he's been wanting to try for a long time" does it mean he never used this framework before? It could be a good idea to get familiarized with it early.

– the_lotus
Dec 13 '18 at 18:56













@the_lotus right, he went through tutorials and is familiar with the general concepts, but yeah, I can see that as one possible way to go. Thanks.

– alecxe
Dec 13 '18 at 18:57







@the_lotus right, he went through tutorials and is familiar with the general concepts, but yeah, I can see that as one possible way to go. Thanks.

– alecxe
Dec 13 '18 at 18:57















Give them (inflatable, if legal insists) bats to beat proper coding practices into the developers. The earlier you realize your developers are being naughty the easier to correct it.

– TemporalWolf
Dec 13 '18 at 21:18





Give them (inflatable, if legal insists) bats to beat proper coding practices into the developers. The earlier you realize your developers are being naughty the easier to correct it.

– TemporalWolf
Dec 13 '18 at 21:18













@TemporalWolf that is hilarious, I have a privilege to experience and understand that from both the sides :D

– alecxe
Dec 13 '18 at 21:21





@TemporalWolf that is hilarious, I have a privilege to experience and understand that from both the sides :D

– alecxe
Dec 13 '18 at 21:21










7 Answers
7






active

oldest

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11














If the product is at the MVP stage and your QA is just getting started, there's a problem. As a BA I saw this time and time again with dev vs QA where the dev team only got the BA to do testing when they felt the product was "ready to deliver to QA" which is a notion all developers should aim to dispel.



Most developers went to university and took some programming classes. When they submit assignments, they are graded on how well they meet certain criteria, most of which is whether they pass the professors tests. This is an incredibly damaging practice because it teaches developers to be afraid of publicly failing a test.



Instead, QA should be testing long before these features are "ready." If you have a 10 working day sprint cycle, the things you work on on day 1 should be sent to QA on day 2. Don't send it to QA on day 6 with all your other things, have them give feedback on 6 different features, and have you spend day 7 and 8 fixing it all for a final test on day 9 and a release on day 10.



So if you're at the MVP stage, your QA person should already be intimately familiar with the product because they should have been doing testing on it every day since you could log in to the app. If you haven't, now is the time to get them started on it full time. If the person has tests that can be automated, do so. Don't be afraid to test something because it might change later. In fact, that's a good thing. A lot of times, if the test is structured well, it will still pass even after the change. And if it doesn't, that's fine. You are unlikely to scrap the whole test because of some changes. And if you do, well you need tests around the parts of your app the change the most because that's where the highest likelihood of bugs is going to be.



Long story short, this engineer should be having a healthy mix of manual and automated testing on a full time basis (especially if you have 3 or more developers working full time on the product.) They should focus on the things that are changing right now, as that is most likely to have bugs in it. They should be testing it before it is complete so early feedback can be sent.






share|improve this answer



















  • 7





    "We think this will change later"...often doesn't change at all. Then you are stuck running trying to catch up on tests. And other people are making changes to surrounding things, so when you find something not working you don't know if it ever worked originally or if it was just broken as a side effect.

    – user3067860
    Dec 13 '18 at 20:38



















8















What would be the best use of QA engineer's time while the project is in an early stage?



Test the requirements, not the product...



by asking the right questions to uncover & challenge implicit assumptions in the requirements.It will ensure that the requirements
are complete
& consistent and are according to the customer’s needs.This could be the biggest
payoff
at this stage.



I also think that's what precisely distinguishes a QA engineer from a test engineer.




I have seen time after time , in projects even in later stages, fundamental assumptions are either not fully correct/ or at least not understood/challenged as a team.



Many who join the project late , either do not bother or have the confidence/courage to analyze & challenge the fundamental assumptions in requirements systematically.






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  • 1





    Yeah, good thought about the API layer as logically this should generally be a more stable part of the stack as it, especially in the REST design, mimics the underlying data entities. Thanks!

    – alecxe
    Dec 13 '18 at 3:00



















6














Although all observations are valid, from a project point of view, I am missing the motivational and learning point of view.
Starting some automation now can also be part of the learning of that engineer, and the team. He will be motivated as he can do something he wants to do. Yes, the product will change. But he can also grow along with the development of the product. Starting the automation in the "future" might even be too late to catch up at that stage. Or very difficult because no one thought about the needs of the testing ("been there, done that"). Complexity grows so will the automation challenge. So from my perspective: start early. Together and alongside the development of the product. Learn and adapt. Refactoring is a given. For all types of coders.



Having said that: the quality assistance member can already help with reviewing unit tests. Help with tools that assist the team. Build mocks. Apart from what already is mentioned.



And returning to the person view: a coding tester is not very different from that other type of coder: they run if you burry them in paperwork... just my 2cnt.






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  • I really like your thinking here. Start early and learn the lessons. Thank you for the "powerful" answer!

    – alecxe
    Dec 13 '18 at 18:02



















4














I agree that it may be too early for much automation. But there is still a lot QA can bring to the project to help it be successful at this stage.



If it were me on the project, along with learning everything I could about the requirements, I would be looking at what the customer(s) really do & what their workflow is, what our competitors might offer and anything we've developed previously that might be of use (good or bad) on this project.



I would try to get invited to any/all meetings on design & development so I could understand not only the product requirements, but how the coders are developing & writing the product. Take note where there are heated discussions, confusion or areas of concern - those are areas you might need to give extra attention later.



Be curious & ask questions. Ask about tests you might run, or the labels for fields, or what the customer expects response time to be - ask about everything. This confirms everyone sees things the same way (easier to catch it now, than later). I've been amazed how many times a 'harmless' confirmation question has evolved into a full 20 minute conversation that fixed a major issue on paper instead of when it came to test.



I work in an agile shop - so I would begin to draft up some epics, and if possible some of the first stories. They may need flushed out later, but start getting the ideas down. And begin looking at your requirements - do you have a specific format required for test plans, regulatory documents you'll need to fill out with testing, etc. If you don't know what those are now would be a good time to gather that information.



If you see something new to you, now might be the time to give yourself a crash course in it. (I once did an introductory course on medical coding based on the project I was on... not needed, but very useful when we got further in.) While things are slow for QA is the time to squeeze that in.



Being your QA person is only half time on the project all this may not be possible, but even tackling a few of these things will be good for the overall project.






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    3














    It sounds like you're on the right lines already but, in addition to going through the requirements and getting familiarised with the roadmap, it's definitely worth getting him to exploratory test the MVP and get a feel of the product as early as possible.



    Also, static testing the requirement document would be beneficial as it allows for early feedback and your guy could shape the backend requirements to make his automation easier to implement -- I've worked in places where the automation team would get to name the page elements, rather than the developers or business analysts.



    Failing that, creating some tests for the highest priority journeys (usually the 'happy paths') would showcase what the automation is capable of... and would likely impress the customer!






    share|improve this answer



















    • 2





      If they have even a semi-working product exploratory testing is a great idea!

      – CKlein
      Dec 13 '18 at 19:23



















    3














    note: I assume you are CTO or similar role or the "boss" for QA stuff



    In order to clarify my "idea" of QA during project/product development, I've write down following workflow as example:





    • requirements: formalize them, update them, take track on every release, as use case or user story.


    • define tests: define how user story are tested, with edge cases should be take in consideration


    • tools: find right tool/framework/system to build tests


    • tests: core QA work here, for every release run tests or create new tests to cover most of user stories. Test could be of the following types:



      • unit test: code must be tested on edge cases (null, worst scenario) always, everywhere


      • integration test: api integration test, using for example tool like postman


      • end user test: not automatable tests, should take care of core use cases and could be done by hand (or mouse)




    • document & retrospective: track releases, tests done / accepted / failure to bring insight on next steps where team can do better


    To answer your question: "What could a QA engineer do when a project is in an early stage?", for me is:




    • help on requirements phase: understand them, help to track them, and be sure that every requirement should have an acceptance test, write in plain text. Find a way to specify them, track them, organize them and keep them updated in a "test wiki/document" is a huge work. I've found useful define not only user story/use case, but "user journey", to connect use cases together in a meaningful way). All team could benefit from this work and QA engineer can understand better and more quickly what system do and why and organize following phases


    • be in charge of define tests and tools phases: decide what to test, when and where is importand! Also QA engineer should be (with CTO approval, of course!) in charge here. Be critic on tool choice, be free to experiment with other tools is crucial for QA engineer to be accountable here


    • work on tests: core QA work here. Be responsabile and accountable that every user story is covered by a set of tests (unit/integration/end user tests) with a proportion of 70% / 20% / 10% for type of test. Critical path for every release of the software should be tested manually.


    • document & retrospective: don't forget this! Help project/product manager to identify areas of improvment, make proposal and give feedback on problems, so planning features/epics should be more easy. For example: we had a lot of problems in this area, should we invest more on redesign/re-think it ?



    Background: developer&QA 10 years, product owner 1 year






    share|improve this answer


























    • This answer doesn't seem to be addressing the question that was asked. Instead it seems to be describing how to "build a proper QA stage" (whatever that means) which might be useful but again isn't addressing the question.

      – Chris Kenst
      Jan 5 at 7:34











    • Thanks @ChrisKenst for sharing your toughts! You asked for "What other things could we ask him to do? What would be the best use of QA engineer's time while the project is in an early stage?" and I think review the process simply answer your question, in particular on define test/tools points, what do you think ?

      – Vokail
      Jan 7 at 7:37











    • To be fair, I didn't ask for anything and am not the person who asked the original question. I was reading through the responses and found yours to be at odds / confusing. Asking the QA engineering to spend his time reviewing processes is fine, if they have them. Asking the QA engineer to define those processes wouldn't make any sense. Perhaps you could change your answer to better reflect this advice?

      – Chris Kenst
      Jan 7 at 18:45











    • @ChrisKenst thanks for your comment, I've edited my answer, to clarify differente between workflow and actual answer

      – Vokail
      Jan 8 at 13:30



















    2














    I think it's a good time to ask questions about how you're defining quality for the app (ie, how quick it needs to be, how accessible it needs to be, supported browsers) I've also found that test automation can take a little time to get up and running. There's lots of drivers to be installed and/or docker/virtual machine type containers to get up and running, plus decisions on tools to use, security features, hooking it up to the build server, etc, and teaching anybody who wants to contribute or review results.



    Have that ready to rock, even if it's just a login test, can be very helpful in the effort to 'automate with the sprint' that so many people are trying to achieve these days.






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      7 Answers
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      7 Answers
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      11














      If the product is at the MVP stage and your QA is just getting started, there's a problem. As a BA I saw this time and time again with dev vs QA where the dev team only got the BA to do testing when they felt the product was "ready to deliver to QA" which is a notion all developers should aim to dispel.



      Most developers went to university and took some programming classes. When they submit assignments, they are graded on how well they meet certain criteria, most of which is whether they pass the professors tests. This is an incredibly damaging practice because it teaches developers to be afraid of publicly failing a test.



      Instead, QA should be testing long before these features are "ready." If you have a 10 working day sprint cycle, the things you work on on day 1 should be sent to QA on day 2. Don't send it to QA on day 6 with all your other things, have them give feedback on 6 different features, and have you spend day 7 and 8 fixing it all for a final test on day 9 and a release on day 10.



      So if you're at the MVP stage, your QA person should already be intimately familiar with the product because they should have been doing testing on it every day since you could log in to the app. If you haven't, now is the time to get them started on it full time. If the person has tests that can be automated, do so. Don't be afraid to test something because it might change later. In fact, that's a good thing. A lot of times, if the test is structured well, it will still pass even after the change. And if it doesn't, that's fine. You are unlikely to scrap the whole test because of some changes. And if you do, well you need tests around the parts of your app the change the most because that's where the highest likelihood of bugs is going to be.



      Long story short, this engineer should be having a healthy mix of manual and automated testing on a full time basis (especially if you have 3 or more developers working full time on the product.) They should focus on the things that are changing right now, as that is most likely to have bugs in it. They should be testing it before it is complete so early feedback can be sent.






      share|improve this answer



















      • 7





        "We think this will change later"...often doesn't change at all. Then you are stuck running trying to catch up on tests. And other people are making changes to surrounding things, so when you find something not working you don't know if it ever worked originally or if it was just broken as a side effect.

        – user3067860
        Dec 13 '18 at 20:38
















      11














      If the product is at the MVP stage and your QA is just getting started, there's a problem. As a BA I saw this time and time again with dev vs QA where the dev team only got the BA to do testing when they felt the product was "ready to deliver to QA" which is a notion all developers should aim to dispel.



      Most developers went to university and took some programming classes. When they submit assignments, they are graded on how well they meet certain criteria, most of which is whether they pass the professors tests. This is an incredibly damaging practice because it teaches developers to be afraid of publicly failing a test.



      Instead, QA should be testing long before these features are "ready." If you have a 10 working day sprint cycle, the things you work on on day 1 should be sent to QA on day 2. Don't send it to QA on day 6 with all your other things, have them give feedback on 6 different features, and have you spend day 7 and 8 fixing it all for a final test on day 9 and a release on day 10.



      So if you're at the MVP stage, your QA person should already be intimately familiar with the product because they should have been doing testing on it every day since you could log in to the app. If you haven't, now is the time to get them started on it full time. If the person has tests that can be automated, do so. Don't be afraid to test something because it might change later. In fact, that's a good thing. A lot of times, if the test is structured well, it will still pass even after the change. And if it doesn't, that's fine. You are unlikely to scrap the whole test because of some changes. And if you do, well you need tests around the parts of your app the change the most because that's where the highest likelihood of bugs is going to be.



      Long story short, this engineer should be having a healthy mix of manual and automated testing on a full time basis (especially if you have 3 or more developers working full time on the product.) They should focus on the things that are changing right now, as that is most likely to have bugs in it. They should be testing it before it is complete so early feedback can be sent.






      share|improve this answer



















      • 7





        "We think this will change later"...often doesn't change at all. Then you are stuck running trying to catch up on tests. And other people are making changes to surrounding things, so when you find something not working you don't know if it ever worked originally or if it was just broken as a side effect.

        – user3067860
        Dec 13 '18 at 20:38














      11












      11








      11







      If the product is at the MVP stage and your QA is just getting started, there's a problem. As a BA I saw this time and time again with dev vs QA where the dev team only got the BA to do testing when they felt the product was "ready to deliver to QA" which is a notion all developers should aim to dispel.



      Most developers went to university and took some programming classes. When they submit assignments, they are graded on how well they meet certain criteria, most of which is whether they pass the professors tests. This is an incredibly damaging practice because it teaches developers to be afraid of publicly failing a test.



      Instead, QA should be testing long before these features are "ready." If you have a 10 working day sprint cycle, the things you work on on day 1 should be sent to QA on day 2. Don't send it to QA on day 6 with all your other things, have them give feedback on 6 different features, and have you spend day 7 and 8 fixing it all for a final test on day 9 and a release on day 10.



      So if you're at the MVP stage, your QA person should already be intimately familiar with the product because they should have been doing testing on it every day since you could log in to the app. If you haven't, now is the time to get them started on it full time. If the person has tests that can be automated, do so. Don't be afraid to test something because it might change later. In fact, that's a good thing. A lot of times, if the test is structured well, it will still pass even after the change. And if it doesn't, that's fine. You are unlikely to scrap the whole test because of some changes. And if you do, well you need tests around the parts of your app the change the most because that's where the highest likelihood of bugs is going to be.



      Long story short, this engineer should be having a healthy mix of manual and automated testing on a full time basis (especially if you have 3 or more developers working full time on the product.) They should focus on the things that are changing right now, as that is most likely to have bugs in it. They should be testing it before it is complete so early feedback can be sent.






      share|improve this answer













      If the product is at the MVP stage and your QA is just getting started, there's a problem. As a BA I saw this time and time again with dev vs QA where the dev team only got the BA to do testing when they felt the product was "ready to deliver to QA" which is a notion all developers should aim to dispel.



      Most developers went to university and took some programming classes. When they submit assignments, they are graded on how well they meet certain criteria, most of which is whether they pass the professors tests. This is an incredibly damaging practice because it teaches developers to be afraid of publicly failing a test.



      Instead, QA should be testing long before these features are "ready." If you have a 10 working day sprint cycle, the things you work on on day 1 should be sent to QA on day 2. Don't send it to QA on day 6 with all your other things, have them give feedback on 6 different features, and have you spend day 7 and 8 fixing it all for a final test on day 9 and a release on day 10.



      So if you're at the MVP stage, your QA person should already be intimately familiar with the product because they should have been doing testing on it every day since you could log in to the app. If you haven't, now is the time to get them started on it full time. If the person has tests that can be automated, do so. Don't be afraid to test something because it might change later. In fact, that's a good thing. A lot of times, if the test is structured well, it will still pass even after the change. And if it doesn't, that's fine. You are unlikely to scrap the whole test because of some changes. And if you do, well you need tests around the parts of your app the change the most because that's where the highest likelihood of bugs is going to be.



      Long story short, this engineer should be having a healthy mix of manual and automated testing on a full time basis (especially if you have 3 or more developers working full time on the product.) They should focus on the things that are changing right now, as that is most likely to have bugs in it. They should be testing it before it is complete so early feedback can be sent.







      share|improve this answer












      share|improve this answer



      share|improve this answer










      answered Dec 13 '18 at 19:16









      corsiKacorsiKa

      5,25243146




      5,25243146








      • 7





        "We think this will change later"...often doesn't change at all. Then you are stuck running trying to catch up on tests. And other people are making changes to surrounding things, so when you find something not working you don't know if it ever worked originally or if it was just broken as a side effect.

        – user3067860
        Dec 13 '18 at 20:38














      • 7





        "We think this will change later"...often doesn't change at all. Then you are stuck running trying to catch up on tests. And other people are making changes to surrounding things, so when you find something not working you don't know if it ever worked originally or if it was just broken as a side effect.

        – user3067860
        Dec 13 '18 at 20:38








      7




      7





      "We think this will change later"...often doesn't change at all. Then you are stuck running trying to catch up on tests. And other people are making changes to surrounding things, so when you find something not working you don't know if it ever worked originally or if it was just broken as a side effect.

      – user3067860
      Dec 13 '18 at 20:38





      "We think this will change later"...often doesn't change at all. Then you are stuck running trying to catch up on tests. And other people are making changes to surrounding things, so when you find something not working you don't know if it ever worked originally or if it was just broken as a side effect.

      – user3067860
      Dec 13 '18 at 20:38











      8















      What would be the best use of QA engineer's time while the project is in an early stage?



      Test the requirements, not the product...



      by asking the right questions to uncover & challenge implicit assumptions in the requirements.It will ensure that the requirements
      are complete
      & consistent and are according to the customer’s needs.This could be the biggest
      payoff
      at this stage.



      I also think that's what precisely distinguishes a QA engineer from a test engineer.




      I have seen time after time , in projects even in later stages, fundamental assumptions are either not fully correct/ or at least not understood/challenged as a team.



      Many who join the project late , either do not bother or have the confidence/courage to analyze & challenge the fundamental assumptions in requirements systematically.






      share|improve this answer





















      • 1





        Yeah, good thought about the API layer as logically this should generally be a more stable part of the stack as it, especially in the REST design, mimics the underlying data entities. Thanks!

        – alecxe
        Dec 13 '18 at 3:00
















      8















      What would be the best use of QA engineer's time while the project is in an early stage?



      Test the requirements, not the product...



      by asking the right questions to uncover & challenge implicit assumptions in the requirements.It will ensure that the requirements
      are complete
      & consistent and are according to the customer’s needs.This could be the biggest
      payoff
      at this stage.



      I also think that's what precisely distinguishes a QA engineer from a test engineer.




      I have seen time after time , in projects even in later stages, fundamental assumptions are either not fully correct/ or at least not understood/challenged as a team.



      Many who join the project late , either do not bother or have the confidence/courage to analyze & challenge the fundamental assumptions in requirements systematically.






      share|improve this answer





















      • 1





        Yeah, good thought about the API layer as logically this should generally be a more stable part of the stack as it, especially in the REST design, mimics the underlying data entities. Thanks!

        – alecxe
        Dec 13 '18 at 3:00














      8












      8








      8








      What would be the best use of QA engineer's time while the project is in an early stage?



      Test the requirements, not the product...



      by asking the right questions to uncover & challenge implicit assumptions in the requirements.It will ensure that the requirements
      are complete
      & consistent and are according to the customer’s needs.This could be the biggest
      payoff
      at this stage.



      I also think that's what precisely distinguishes a QA engineer from a test engineer.




      I have seen time after time , in projects even in later stages, fundamental assumptions are either not fully correct/ or at least not understood/challenged as a team.



      Many who join the project late , either do not bother or have the confidence/courage to analyze & challenge the fundamental assumptions in requirements systematically.






      share|improve this answer
















      What would be the best use of QA engineer's time while the project is in an early stage?



      Test the requirements, not the product...



      by asking the right questions to uncover & challenge implicit assumptions in the requirements.It will ensure that the requirements
      are complete
      & consistent and are according to the customer’s needs.This could be the biggest
      payoff
      at this stage.



      I also think that's what precisely distinguishes a QA engineer from a test engineer.




      I have seen time after time , in projects even in later stages, fundamental assumptions are either not fully correct/ or at least not understood/challenged as a team.



      Many who join the project late , either do not bother or have the confidence/courage to analyze & challenge the fundamental assumptions in requirements systematically.







      share|improve this answer














      share|improve this answer



      share|improve this answer








      edited Jan 16 at 0:53

























      answered Dec 13 '18 at 2:39









      Vishal AggarwalVishal Aggarwal

      2,9262927




      2,9262927








      • 1





        Yeah, good thought about the API layer as logically this should generally be a more stable part of the stack as it, especially in the REST design, mimics the underlying data entities. Thanks!

        – alecxe
        Dec 13 '18 at 3:00














      • 1





        Yeah, good thought about the API layer as logically this should generally be a more stable part of the stack as it, especially in the REST design, mimics the underlying data entities. Thanks!

        – alecxe
        Dec 13 '18 at 3:00








      1




      1





      Yeah, good thought about the API layer as logically this should generally be a more stable part of the stack as it, especially in the REST design, mimics the underlying data entities. Thanks!

      – alecxe
      Dec 13 '18 at 3:00





      Yeah, good thought about the API layer as logically this should generally be a more stable part of the stack as it, especially in the REST design, mimics the underlying data entities. Thanks!

      – alecxe
      Dec 13 '18 at 3:00











      6














      Although all observations are valid, from a project point of view, I am missing the motivational and learning point of view.
      Starting some automation now can also be part of the learning of that engineer, and the team. He will be motivated as he can do something he wants to do. Yes, the product will change. But he can also grow along with the development of the product. Starting the automation in the "future" might even be too late to catch up at that stage. Or very difficult because no one thought about the needs of the testing ("been there, done that"). Complexity grows so will the automation challenge. So from my perspective: start early. Together and alongside the development of the product. Learn and adapt. Refactoring is a given. For all types of coders.



      Having said that: the quality assistance member can already help with reviewing unit tests. Help with tools that assist the team. Build mocks. Apart from what already is mentioned.



      And returning to the person view: a coding tester is not very different from that other type of coder: they run if you burry them in paperwork... just my 2cnt.






      share|improve this answer
























      • I really like your thinking here. Start early and learn the lessons. Thank you for the "powerful" answer!

        – alecxe
        Dec 13 '18 at 18:02
















      6














      Although all observations are valid, from a project point of view, I am missing the motivational and learning point of view.
      Starting some automation now can also be part of the learning of that engineer, and the team. He will be motivated as he can do something he wants to do. Yes, the product will change. But he can also grow along with the development of the product. Starting the automation in the "future" might even be too late to catch up at that stage. Or very difficult because no one thought about the needs of the testing ("been there, done that"). Complexity grows so will the automation challenge. So from my perspective: start early. Together and alongside the development of the product. Learn and adapt. Refactoring is a given. For all types of coders.



      Having said that: the quality assistance member can already help with reviewing unit tests. Help with tools that assist the team. Build mocks. Apart from what already is mentioned.



      And returning to the person view: a coding tester is not very different from that other type of coder: they run if you burry them in paperwork... just my 2cnt.






      share|improve this answer
























      • I really like your thinking here. Start early and learn the lessons. Thank you for the "powerful" answer!

        – alecxe
        Dec 13 '18 at 18:02














      6












      6








      6







      Although all observations are valid, from a project point of view, I am missing the motivational and learning point of view.
      Starting some automation now can also be part of the learning of that engineer, and the team. He will be motivated as he can do something he wants to do. Yes, the product will change. But he can also grow along with the development of the product. Starting the automation in the "future" might even be too late to catch up at that stage. Or very difficult because no one thought about the needs of the testing ("been there, done that"). Complexity grows so will the automation challenge. So from my perspective: start early. Together and alongside the development of the product. Learn and adapt. Refactoring is a given. For all types of coders.



      Having said that: the quality assistance member can already help with reviewing unit tests. Help with tools that assist the team. Build mocks. Apart from what already is mentioned.



      And returning to the person view: a coding tester is not very different from that other type of coder: they run if you burry them in paperwork... just my 2cnt.






      share|improve this answer













      Although all observations are valid, from a project point of view, I am missing the motivational and learning point of view.
      Starting some automation now can also be part of the learning of that engineer, and the team. He will be motivated as he can do something he wants to do. Yes, the product will change. But he can also grow along with the development of the product. Starting the automation in the "future" might even be too late to catch up at that stage. Or very difficult because no one thought about the needs of the testing ("been there, done that"). Complexity grows so will the automation challenge. So from my perspective: start early. Together and alongside the development of the product. Learn and adapt. Refactoring is a given. For all types of coders.



      Having said that: the quality assistance member can already help with reviewing unit tests. Help with tools that assist the team. Build mocks. Apart from what already is mentioned.



      And returning to the person view: a coding tester is not very different from that other type of coder: they run if you burry them in paperwork... just my 2cnt.







      share|improve this answer












      share|improve this answer



      share|improve this answer










      answered Dec 13 '18 at 13:22









      Ray OeiRay Oei

      598313




      598313













      • I really like your thinking here. Start early and learn the lessons. Thank you for the "powerful" answer!

        – alecxe
        Dec 13 '18 at 18:02



















      • I really like your thinking here. Start early and learn the lessons. Thank you for the "powerful" answer!

        – alecxe
        Dec 13 '18 at 18:02

















      I really like your thinking here. Start early and learn the lessons. Thank you for the "powerful" answer!

      – alecxe
      Dec 13 '18 at 18:02





      I really like your thinking here. Start early and learn the lessons. Thank you for the "powerful" answer!

      – alecxe
      Dec 13 '18 at 18:02











      4














      I agree that it may be too early for much automation. But there is still a lot QA can bring to the project to help it be successful at this stage.



      If it were me on the project, along with learning everything I could about the requirements, I would be looking at what the customer(s) really do & what their workflow is, what our competitors might offer and anything we've developed previously that might be of use (good or bad) on this project.



      I would try to get invited to any/all meetings on design & development so I could understand not only the product requirements, but how the coders are developing & writing the product. Take note where there are heated discussions, confusion or areas of concern - those are areas you might need to give extra attention later.



      Be curious & ask questions. Ask about tests you might run, or the labels for fields, or what the customer expects response time to be - ask about everything. This confirms everyone sees things the same way (easier to catch it now, than later). I've been amazed how many times a 'harmless' confirmation question has evolved into a full 20 minute conversation that fixed a major issue on paper instead of when it came to test.



      I work in an agile shop - so I would begin to draft up some epics, and if possible some of the first stories. They may need flushed out later, but start getting the ideas down. And begin looking at your requirements - do you have a specific format required for test plans, regulatory documents you'll need to fill out with testing, etc. If you don't know what those are now would be a good time to gather that information.



      If you see something new to you, now might be the time to give yourself a crash course in it. (I once did an introductory course on medical coding based on the project I was on... not needed, but very useful when we got further in.) While things are slow for QA is the time to squeeze that in.



      Being your QA person is only half time on the project all this may not be possible, but even tackling a few of these things will be good for the overall project.






      share|improve this answer




























        4














        I agree that it may be too early for much automation. But there is still a lot QA can bring to the project to help it be successful at this stage.



        If it were me on the project, along with learning everything I could about the requirements, I would be looking at what the customer(s) really do & what their workflow is, what our competitors might offer and anything we've developed previously that might be of use (good or bad) on this project.



        I would try to get invited to any/all meetings on design & development so I could understand not only the product requirements, but how the coders are developing & writing the product. Take note where there are heated discussions, confusion or areas of concern - those are areas you might need to give extra attention later.



        Be curious & ask questions. Ask about tests you might run, or the labels for fields, or what the customer expects response time to be - ask about everything. This confirms everyone sees things the same way (easier to catch it now, than later). I've been amazed how many times a 'harmless' confirmation question has evolved into a full 20 minute conversation that fixed a major issue on paper instead of when it came to test.



        I work in an agile shop - so I would begin to draft up some epics, and if possible some of the first stories. They may need flushed out later, but start getting the ideas down. And begin looking at your requirements - do you have a specific format required for test plans, regulatory documents you'll need to fill out with testing, etc. If you don't know what those are now would be a good time to gather that information.



        If you see something new to you, now might be the time to give yourself a crash course in it. (I once did an introductory course on medical coding based on the project I was on... not needed, but very useful when we got further in.) While things are slow for QA is the time to squeeze that in.



        Being your QA person is only half time on the project all this may not be possible, but even tackling a few of these things will be good for the overall project.






        share|improve this answer


























          4












          4








          4







          I agree that it may be too early for much automation. But there is still a lot QA can bring to the project to help it be successful at this stage.



          If it were me on the project, along with learning everything I could about the requirements, I would be looking at what the customer(s) really do & what their workflow is, what our competitors might offer and anything we've developed previously that might be of use (good or bad) on this project.



          I would try to get invited to any/all meetings on design & development so I could understand not only the product requirements, but how the coders are developing & writing the product. Take note where there are heated discussions, confusion or areas of concern - those are areas you might need to give extra attention later.



          Be curious & ask questions. Ask about tests you might run, or the labels for fields, or what the customer expects response time to be - ask about everything. This confirms everyone sees things the same way (easier to catch it now, than later). I've been amazed how many times a 'harmless' confirmation question has evolved into a full 20 minute conversation that fixed a major issue on paper instead of when it came to test.



          I work in an agile shop - so I would begin to draft up some epics, and if possible some of the first stories. They may need flushed out later, but start getting the ideas down. And begin looking at your requirements - do you have a specific format required for test plans, regulatory documents you'll need to fill out with testing, etc. If you don't know what those are now would be a good time to gather that information.



          If you see something new to you, now might be the time to give yourself a crash course in it. (I once did an introductory course on medical coding based on the project I was on... not needed, but very useful when we got further in.) While things are slow for QA is the time to squeeze that in.



          Being your QA person is only half time on the project all this may not be possible, but even tackling a few of these things will be good for the overall project.






          share|improve this answer













          I agree that it may be too early for much automation. But there is still a lot QA can bring to the project to help it be successful at this stage.



          If it were me on the project, along with learning everything I could about the requirements, I would be looking at what the customer(s) really do & what their workflow is, what our competitors might offer and anything we've developed previously that might be of use (good or bad) on this project.



          I would try to get invited to any/all meetings on design & development so I could understand not only the product requirements, but how the coders are developing & writing the product. Take note where there are heated discussions, confusion or areas of concern - those are areas you might need to give extra attention later.



          Be curious & ask questions. Ask about tests you might run, or the labels for fields, or what the customer expects response time to be - ask about everything. This confirms everyone sees things the same way (easier to catch it now, than later). I've been amazed how many times a 'harmless' confirmation question has evolved into a full 20 minute conversation that fixed a major issue on paper instead of when it came to test.



          I work in an agile shop - so I would begin to draft up some epics, and if possible some of the first stories. They may need flushed out later, but start getting the ideas down. And begin looking at your requirements - do you have a specific format required for test plans, regulatory documents you'll need to fill out with testing, etc. If you don't know what those are now would be a good time to gather that information.



          If you see something new to you, now might be the time to give yourself a crash course in it. (I once did an introductory course on medical coding based on the project I was on... not needed, but very useful when we got further in.) While things are slow for QA is the time to squeeze that in.



          Being your QA person is only half time on the project all this may not be possible, but even tackling a few of these things will be good for the overall project.







          share|improve this answer












          share|improve this answer



          share|improve this answer










          answered Dec 13 '18 at 12:38









          CKleinCKlein

          1,04169




          1,04169























              3














              It sounds like you're on the right lines already but, in addition to going through the requirements and getting familiarised with the roadmap, it's definitely worth getting him to exploratory test the MVP and get a feel of the product as early as possible.



              Also, static testing the requirement document would be beneficial as it allows for early feedback and your guy could shape the backend requirements to make his automation easier to implement -- I've worked in places where the automation team would get to name the page elements, rather than the developers or business analysts.



              Failing that, creating some tests for the highest priority journeys (usually the 'happy paths') would showcase what the automation is capable of... and would likely impress the customer!






              share|improve this answer



















              • 2





                If they have even a semi-working product exploratory testing is a great idea!

                – CKlein
                Dec 13 '18 at 19:23
















              3














              It sounds like you're on the right lines already but, in addition to going through the requirements and getting familiarised with the roadmap, it's definitely worth getting him to exploratory test the MVP and get a feel of the product as early as possible.



              Also, static testing the requirement document would be beneficial as it allows for early feedback and your guy could shape the backend requirements to make his automation easier to implement -- I've worked in places where the automation team would get to name the page elements, rather than the developers or business analysts.



              Failing that, creating some tests for the highest priority journeys (usually the 'happy paths') would showcase what the automation is capable of... and would likely impress the customer!






              share|improve this answer



















              • 2





                If they have even a semi-working product exploratory testing is a great idea!

                – CKlein
                Dec 13 '18 at 19:23














              3












              3








              3







              It sounds like you're on the right lines already but, in addition to going through the requirements and getting familiarised with the roadmap, it's definitely worth getting him to exploratory test the MVP and get a feel of the product as early as possible.



              Also, static testing the requirement document would be beneficial as it allows for early feedback and your guy could shape the backend requirements to make his automation easier to implement -- I've worked in places where the automation team would get to name the page elements, rather than the developers or business analysts.



              Failing that, creating some tests for the highest priority journeys (usually the 'happy paths') would showcase what the automation is capable of... and would likely impress the customer!






              share|improve this answer













              It sounds like you're on the right lines already but, in addition to going through the requirements and getting familiarised with the roadmap, it's definitely worth getting him to exploratory test the MVP and get a feel of the product as early as possible.



              Also, static testing the requirement document would be beneficial as it allows for early feedback and your guy could shape the backend requirements to make his automation easier to implement -- I've worked in places where the automation team would get to name the page elements, rather than the developers or business analysts.



              Failing that, creating some tests for the highest priority journeys (usually the 'happy paths') would showcase what the automation is capable of... and would likely impress the customer!







              share|improve this answer












              share|improve this answer



              share|improve this answer










              answered Dec 13 '18 at 14:24









              trashpandatrashpanda

              1,3971629




              1,3971629








              • 2





                If they have even a semi-working product exploratory testing is a great idea!

                – CKlein
                Dec 13 '18 at 19:23














              • 2





                If they have even a semi-working product exploratory testing is a great idea!

                – CKlein
                Dec 13 '18 at 19:23








              2




              2





              If they have even a semi-working product exploratory testing is a great idea!

              – CKlein
              Dec 13 '18 at 19:23





              If they have even a semi-working product exploratory testing is a great idea!

              – CKlein
              Dec 13 '18 at 19:23











              3














              note: I assume you are CTO or similar role or the "boss" for QA stuff



              In order to clarify my "idea" of QA during project/product development, I've write down following workflow as example:





              • requirements: formalize them, update them, take track on every release, as use case or user story.


              • define tests: define how user story are tested, with edge cases should be take in consideration


              • tools: find right tool/framework/system to build tests


              • tests: core QA work here, for every release run tests or create new tests to cover most of user stories. Test could be of the following types:



                • unit test: code must be tested on edge cases (null, worst scenario) always, everywhere


                • integration test: api integration test, using for example tool like postman


                • end user test: not automatable tests, should take care of core use cases and could be done by hand (or mouse)




              • document & retrospective: track releases, tests done / accepted / failure to bring insight on next steps where team can do better


              To answer your question: "What could a QA engineer do when a project is in an early stage?", for me is:




              • help on requirements phase: understand them, help to track them, and be sure that every requirement should have an acceptance test, write in plain text. Find a way to specify them, track them, organize them and keep them updated in a "test wiki/document" is a huge work. I've found useful define not only user story/use case, but "user journey", to connect use cases together in a meaningful way). All team could benefit from this work and QA engineer can understand better and more quickly what system do and why and organize following phases


              • be in charge of define tests and tools phases: decide what to test, when and where is importand! Also QA engineer should be (with CTO approval, of course!) in charge here. Be critic on tool choice, be free to experiment with other tools is crucial for QA engineer to be accountable here


              • work on tests: core QA work here. Be responsabile and accountable that every user story is covered by a set of tests (unit/integration/end user tests) with a proportion of 70% / 20% / 10% for type of test. Critical path for every release of the software should be tested manually.


              • document & retrospective: don't forget this! Help project/product manager to identify areas of improvment, make proposal and give feedback on problems, so planning features/epics should be more easy. For example: we had a lot of problems in this area, should we invest more on redesign/re-think it ?



              Background: developer&QA 10 years, product owner 1 year






              share|improve this answer


























              • This answer doesn't seem to be addressing the question that was asked. Instead it seems to be describing how to "build a proper QA stage" (whatever that means) which might be useful but again isn't addressing the question.

                – Chris Kenst
                Jan 5 at 7:34











              • Thanks @ChrisKenst for sharing your toughts! You asked for "What other things could we ask him to do? What would be the best use of QA engineer's time while the project is in an early stage?" and I think review the process simply answer your question, in particular on define test/tools points, what do you think ?

                – Vokail
                Jan 7 at 7:37











              • To be fair, I didn't ask for anything and am not the person who asked the original question. I was reading through the responses and found yours to be at odds / confusing. Asking the QA engineering to spend his time reviewing processes is fine, if they have them. Asking the QA engineer to define those processes wouldn't make any sense. Perhaps you could change your answer to better reflect this advice?

                – Chris Kenst
                Jan 7 at 18:45











              • @ChrisKenst thanks for your comment, I've edited my answer, to clarify differente between workflow and actual answer

                – Vokail
                Jan 8 at 13:30
















              3














              note: I assume you are CTO or similar role or the "boss" for QA stuff



              In order to clarify my "idea" of QA during project/product development, I've write down following workflow as example:





              • requirements: formalize them, update them, take track on every release, as use case or user story.


              • define tests: define how user story are tested, with edge cases should be take in consideration


              • tools: find right tool/framework/system to build tests


              • tests: core QA work here, for every release run tests or create new tests to cover most of user stories. Test could be of the following types:



                • unit test: code must be tested on edge cases (null, worst scenario) always, everywhere


                • integration test: api integration test, using for example tool like postman


                • end user test: not automatable tests, should take care of core use cases and could be done by hand (or mouse)




              • document & retrospective: track releases, tests done / accepted / failure to bring insight on next steps where team can do better


              To answer your question: "What could a QA engineer do when a project is in an early stage?", for me is:




              • help on requirements phase: understand them, help to track them, and be sure that every requirement should have an acceptance test, write in plain text. Find a way to specify them, track them, organize them and keep them updated in a "test wiki/document" is a huge work. I've found useful define not only user story/use case, but "user journey", to connect use cases together in a meaningful way). All team could benefit from this work and QA engineer can understand better and more quickly what system do and why and organize following phases


              • be in charge of define tests and tools phases: decide what to test, when and where is importand! Also QA engineer should be (with CTO approval, of course!) in charge here. Be critic on tool choice, be free to experiment with other tools is crucial for QA engineer to be accountable here


              • work on tests: core QA work here. Be responsabile and accountable that every user story is covered by a set of tests (unit/integration/end user tests) with a proportion of 70% / 20% / 10% for type of test. Critical path for every release of the software should be tested manually.


              • document & retrospective: don't forget this! Help project/product manager to identify areas of improvment, make proposal and give feedback on problems, so planning features/epics should be more easy. For example: we had a lot of problems in this area, should we invest more on redesign/re-think it ?



              Background: developer&QA 10 years, product owner 1 year






              share|improve this answer


























              • This answer doesn't seem to be addressing the question that was asked. Instead it seems to be describing how to "build a proper QA stage" (whatever that means) which might be useful but again isn't addressing the question.

                – Chris Kenst
                Jan 5 at 7:34











              • Thanks @ChrisKenst for sharing your toughts! You asked for "What other things could we ask him to do? What would be the best use of QA engineer's time while the project is in an early stage?" and I think review the process simply answer your question, in particular on define test/tools points, what do you think ?

                – Vokail
                Jan 7 at 7:37











              • To be fair, I didn't ask for anything and am not the person who asked the original question. I was reading through the responses and found yours to be at odds / confusing. Asking the QA engineering to spend his time reviewing processes is fine, if they have them. Asking the QA engineer to define those processes wouldn't make any sense. Perhaps you could change your answer to better reflect this advice?

                – Chris Kenst
                Jan 7 at 18:45











              • @ChrisKenst thanks for your comment, I've edited my answer, to clarify differente between workflow and actual answer

                – Vokail
                Jan 8 at 13:30














              3












              3








              3







              note: I assume you are CTO or similar role or the "boss" for QA stuff



              In order to clarify my "idea" of QA during project/product development, I've write down following workflow as example:





              • requirements: formalize them, update them, take track on every release, as use case or user story.


              • define tests: define how user story are tested, with edge cases should be take in consideration


              • tools: find right tool/framework/system to build tests


              • tests: core QA work here, for every release run tests or create new tests to cover most of user stories. Test could be of the following types:



                • unit test: code must be tested on edge cases (null, worst scenario) always, everywhere


                • integration test: api integration test, using for example tool like postman


                • end user test: not automatable tests, should take care of core use cases and could be done by hand (or mouse)




              • document & retrospective: track releases, tests done / accepted / failure to bring insight on next steps where team can do better


              To answer your question: "What could a QA engineer do when a project is in an early stage?", for me is:




              • help on requirements phase: understand them, help to track them, and be sure that every requirement should have an acceptance test, write in plain text. Find a way to specify them, track them, organize them and keep them updated in a "test wiki/document" is a huge work. I've found useful define not only user story/use case, but "user journey", to connect use cases together in a meaningful way). All team could benefit from this work and QA engineer can understand better and more quickly what system do and why and organize following phases


              • be in charge of define tests and tools phases: decide what to test, when and where is importand! Also QA engineer should be (with CTO approval, of course!) in charge here. Be critic on tool choice, be free to experiment with other tools is crucial for QA engineer to be accountable here


              • work on tests: core QA work here. Be responsabile and accountable that every user story is covered by a set of tests (unit/integration/end user tests) with a proportion of 70% / 20% / 10% for type of test. Critical path for every release of the software should be tested manually.


              • document & retrospective: don't forget this! Help project/product manager to identify areas of improvment, make proposal and give feedback on problems, so planning features/epics should be more easy. For example: we had a lot of problems in this area, should we invest more on redesign/re-think it ?



              Background: developer&QA 10 years, product owner 1 year






              share|improve this answer















              note: I assume you are CTO or similar role or the "boss" for QA stuff



              In order to clarify my "idea" of QA during project/product development, I've write down following workflow as example:





              • requirements: formalize them, update them, take track on every release, as use case or user story.


              • define tests: define how user story are tested, with edge cases should be take in consideration


              • tools: find right tool/framework/system to build tests


              • tests: core QA work here, for every release run tests or create new tests to cover most of user stories. Test could be of the following types:



                • unit test: code must be tested on edge cases (null, worst scenario) always, everywhere


                • integration test: api integration test, using for example tool like postman


                • end user test: not automatable tests, should take care of core use cases and could be done by hand (or mouse)




              • document & retrospective: track releases, tests done / accepted / failure to bring insight on next steps where team can do better


              To answer your question: "What could a QA engineer do when a project is in an early stage?", for me is:




              • help on requirements phase: understand them, help to track them, and be sure that every requirement should have an acceptance test, write in plain text. Find a way to specify them, track them, organize them and keep them updated in a "test wiki/document" is a huge work. I've found useful define not only user story/use case, but "user journey", to connect use cases together in a meaningful way). All team could benefit from this work and QA engineer can understand better and more quickly what system do and why and organize following phases


              • be in charge of define tests and tools phases: decide what to test, when and where is importand! Also QA engineer should be (with CTO approval, of course!) in charge here. Be critic on tool choice, be free to experiment with other tools is crucial for QA engineer to be accountable here


              • work on tests: core QA work here. Be responsabile and accountable that every user story is covered by a set of tests (unit/integration/end user tests) with a proportion of 70% / 20% / 10% for type of test. Critical path for every release of the software should be tested manually.


              • document & retrospective: don't forget this! Help project/product manager to identify areas of improvment, make proposal and give feedback on problems, so planning features/epics should be more easy. For example: we had a lot of problems in this area, should we invest more on redesign/re-think it ?



              Background: developer&QA 10 years, product owner 1 year







              share|improve this answer














              share|improve this answer



              share|improve this answer








              edited Jan 8 at 13:29

























              answered Dec 13 '18 at 16:18









              VokailVokail

              1313




              1313













              • This answer doesn't seem to be addressing the question that was asked. Instead it seems to be describing how to "build a proper QA stage" (whatever that means) which might be useful but again isn't addressing the question.

                – Chris Kenst
                Jan 5 at 7:34











              • Thanks @ChrisKenst for sharing your toughts! You asked for "What other things could we ask him to do? What would be the best use of QA engineer's time while the project is in an early stage?" and I think review the process simply answer your question, in particular on define test/tools points, what do you think ?

                – Vokail
                Jan 7 at 7:37











              • To be fair, I didn't ask for anything and am not the person who asked the original question. I was reading through the responses and found yours to be at odds / confusing. Asking the QA engineering to spend his time reviewing processes is fine, if they have them. Asking the QA engineer to define those processes wouldn't make any sense. Perhaps you could change your answer to better reflect this advice?

                – Chris Kenst
                Jan 7 at 18:45











              • @ChrisKenst thanks for your comment, I've edited my answer, to clarify differente between workflow and actual answer

                – Vokail
                Jan 8 at 13:30



















              • This answer doesn't seem to be addressing the question that was asked. Instead it seems to be describing how to "build a proper QA stage" (whatever that means) which might be useful but again isn't addressing the question.

                – Chris Kenst
                Jan 5 at 7:34











              • Thanks @ChrisKenst for sharing your toughts! You asked for "What other things could we ask him to do? What would be the best use of QA engineer's time while the project is in an early stage?" and I think review the process simply answer your question, in particular on define test/tools points, what do you think ?

                – Vokail
                Jan 7 at 7:37











              • To be fair, I didn't ask for anything and am not the person who asked the original question. I was reading through the responses and found yours to be at odds / confusing. Asking the QA engineering to spend his time reviewing processes is fine, if they have them. Asking the QA engineer to define those processes wouldn't make any sense. Perhaps you could change your answer to better reflect this advice?

                – Chris Kenst
                Jan 7 at 18:45











              • @ChrisKenst thanks for your comment, I've edited my answer, to clarify differente between workflow and actual answer

                – Vokail
                Jan 8 at 13:30

















              This answer doesn't seem to be addressing the question that was asked. Instead it seems to be describing how to "build a proper QA stage" (whatever that means) which might be useful but again isn't addressing the question.

              – Chris Kenst
              Jan 5 at 7:34





              This answer doesn't seem to be addressing the question that was asked. Instead it seems to be describing how to "build a proper QA stage" (whatever that means) which might be useful but again isn't addressing the question.

              – Chris Kenst
              Jan 5 at 7:34













              Thanks @ChrisKenst for sharing your toughts! You asked for "What other things could we ask him to do? What would be the best use of QA engineer's time while the project is in an early stage?" and I think review the process simply answer your question, in particular on define test/tools points, what do you think ?

              – Vokail
              Jan 7 at 7:37





              Thanks @ChrisKenst for sharing your toughts! You asked for "What other things could we ask him to do? What would be the best use of QA engineer's time while the project is in an early stage?" and I think review the process simply answer your question, in particular on define test/tools points, what do you think ?

              – Vokail
              Jan 7 at 7:37













              To be fair, I didn't ask for anything and am not the person who asked the original question. I was reading through the responses and found yours to be at odds / confusing. Asking the QA engineering to spend his time reviewing processes is fine, if they have them. Asking the QA engineer to define those processes wouldn't make any sense. Perhaps you could change your answer to better reflect this advice?

              – Chris Kenst
              Jan 7 at 18:45





              To be fair, I didn't ask for anything and am not the person who asked the original question. I was reading through the responses and found yours to be at odds / confusing. Asking the QA engineering to spend his time reviewing processes is fine, if they have them. Asking the QA engineer to define those processes wouldn't make any sense. Perhaps you could change your answer to better reflect this advice?

              – Chris Kenst
              Jan 7 at 18:45













              @ChrisKenst thanks for your comment, I've edited my answer, to clarify differente between workflow and actual answer

              – Vokail
              Jan 8 at 13:30





              @ChrisKenst thanks for your comment, I've edited my answer, to clarify differente between workflow and actual answer

              – Vokail
              Jan 8 at 13:30











              2














              I think it's a good time to ask questions about how you're defining quality for the app (ie, how quick it needs to be, how accessible it needs to be, supported browsers) I've also found that test automation can take a little time to get up and running. There's lots of drivers to be installed and/or docker/virtual machine type containers to get up and running, plus decisions on tools to use, security features, hooking it up to the build server, etc, and teaching anybody who wants to contribute or review results.



              Have that ready to rock, even if it's just a login test, can be very helpful in the effort to 'automate with the sprint' that so many people are trying to achieve these days.






              share|improve this answer




























                2














                I think it's a good time to ask questions about how you're defining quality for the app (ie, how quick it needs to be, how accessible it needs to be, supported browsers) I've also found that test automation can take a little time to get up and running. There's lots of drivers to be installed and/or docker/virtual machine type containers to get up and running, plus decisions on tools to use, security features, hooking it up to the build server, etc, and teaching anybody who wants to contribute or review results.



                Have that ready to rock, even if it's just a login test, can be very helpful in the effort to 'automate with the sprint' that so many people are trying to achieve these days.






                share|improve this answer


























                  2












                  2








                  2







                  I think it's a good time to ask questions about how you're defining quality for the app (ie, how quick it needs to be, how accessible it needs to be, supported browsers) I've also found that test automation can take a little time to get up and running. There's lots of drivers to be installed and/or docker/virtual machine type containers to get up and running, plus decisions on tools to use, security features, hooking it up to the build server, etc, and teaching anybody who wants to contribute or review results.



                  Have that ready to rock, even if it's just a login test, can be very helpful in the effort to 'automate with the sprint' that so many people are trying to achieve these days.






                  share|improve this answer













                  I think it's a good time to ask questions about how you're defining quality for the app (ie, how quick it needs to be, how accessible it needs to be, supported browsers) I've also found that test automation can take a little time to get up and running. There's lots of drivers to be installed and/or docker/virtual machine type containers to get up and running, plus decisions on tools to use, security features, hooking it up to the build server, etc, and teaching anybody who wants to contribute or review results.



                  Have that ready to rock, even if it's just a login test, can be very helpful in the effort to 'automate with the sprint' that so many people are trying to achieve these days.







                  share|improve this answer












                  share|improve this answer



                  share|improve this answer










                  answered Dec 13 '18 at 19:54









                  Megan SullivanMegan Sullivan

                  36614




                  36614






























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