Showing that every element in $mathbb Q$ $[x]$ / $(x^2-2)$ can be written as $a+bsqrt2$
I'm having trouble showing this.
I already know that $sqrt2$ is the root of $(x^2-2)$ in $mathbb Q$ $[x]$ / $(x^2-2)$ but why does this mean that every element can be written uniquely in the form $(a+bsqrt2)$?
I tried looking at the theorem saying that an element of an extended field can be written as $$a(x)=f(x)*q(x)+r(x) $$ such that $[a(x)]=[r(x)]$. because there seems to be similarities but i can't really make it fit.
number-theory
add a comment |
I'm having trouble showing this.
I already know that $sqrt2$ is the root of $(x^2-2)$ in $mathbb Q$ $[x]$ / $(x^2-2)$ but why does this mean that every element can be written uniquely in the form $(a+bsqrt2)$?
I tried looking at the theorem saying that an element of an extended field can be written as $$a(x)=f(x)*q(x)+r(x) $$ such that $[a(x)]=[r(x)]$. because there seems to be similarities but i can't really make it fit.
number-theory
add a comment |
I'm having trouble showing this.
I already know that $sqrt2$ is the root of $(x^2-2)$ in $mathbb Q$ $[x]$ / $(x^2-2)$ but why does this mean that every element can be written uniquely in the form $(a+bsqrt2)$?
I tried looking at the theorem saying that an element of an extended field can be written as $$a(x)=f(x)*q(x)+r(x) $$ such that $[a(x)]=[r(x)]$. because there seems to be similarities but i can't really make it fit.
number-theory
I'm having trouble showing this.
I already know that $sqrt2$ is the root of $(x^2-2)$ in $mathbb Q$ $[x]$ / $(x^2-2)$ but why does this mean that every element can be written uniquely in the form $(a+bsqrt2)$?
I tried looking at the theorem saying that an element of an extended field can be written as $$a(x)=f(x)*q(x)+r(x) $$ such that $[a(x)]=[r(x)]$. because there seems to be similarities but i can't really make it fit.
number-theory
number-theory
asked Nov 30 '18 at 1:26
scottbotscottbot
175
175
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3 Answers
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If this is how the problem is really phrased, I take a slight issue with this. There is a canonical isomorphism of the ring $E=mathbb{Q}[x]/(x^2-2)$ with the ring $F=mathbb{Q}(sqrt{2})$, the latter of which is literally all real numbers of the form $a+bsqrt{2}$ for $a, b in mathbb{Q}$. But elements of $E$ are cosets of the form $f(x) + (x^2-2)$ where $f(x) in mathbb{Q}[x]$ and not real numbers like $a+bsqrt{2}$.
Here's what they're getting at. Take an element $f(x) + (x^2-2)$ in $E$. Long divide $f(x)$ by $x^2-2$ to write
$$
f(x) = (x^2-2)q(x)+r(x)
$$
with $r(x)=0$ or $deg r(x) leq 1$. Then clearly the cosets $f(x) + (x^2-2)$
and $r(x) + (x^2-2)$ are equal since $f(x)-r(x) in (x^2-2)$. But, $r(x)=a+bx$ for some uniquely determined $a, b in mathbb{Q}$, so every element
$f(x) +(x^2-2)$ of $E$ has a unique expression as $a+bx +(x^2-2)$. So, linear (or less) representatives suffice.
In the above, $x$ plays the role of $sqrt{2}$, giving the desired representation (or, rather, "interpretation"). This is what happens in the isomorphism mentioned in the first paragraph. Evaluation at $x=sqrt{2}$ defines a ring homomorphism $phi: mathbb{Q}[x] to mathbb{Q}(sqrt{2})$. This is clearly onto since $a+bsqrt{2}$ is $phi(a+bx)$. (Look familiar?) Certainly $x^2-2$ is in the kernel of $phi$, and a long-division argument like the one above shows that $ker(phi)=(x^2-2)$. (I'm also using facts about ideals in polynomial rings over a field here.) The fundamental homomorphism theorem then shows that $phi$ induces an isomorphism $mathbb{Q}[x]/(x^2-2) cong mathbb{Q}(sqrt{2})$, as claimed above. Under this map $phi$, note that $x$ maps to $sqrt{2}$. That's what's going on in this exercise.
The question isn't exactly phrased like this, my translating abilities are just limited. The isomorphism with $mathbb{Q}(sqrt{2})$ is also very logical and makes sense but earlier exercises lead more up to the first solution. Thank you very much!
– scottbot
Nov 30 '18 at 2:08
Sure, no problem.
– Randall
Nov 30 '18 at 2:13
add a comment |
Consider the ring homomorphism $varphi:mathbb{Q}[x]to mathbb{Q}(sqrt{2}):xmapstosqrt{2}$. What is the kernel of that homomorphism? If you work it out, you will see that the kernel is the ideal $(x^2-2)$, so that there is a natural isomorphism between $mathbb{Q}[x]/(x^2-2)$ and $mathbb{Q}(sqrt{2})$. Every element in the latter ring can clearly be written as $a+bsqrt{2}$, $a$, $bin mathbb{Q}$.
add a comment |
The wording of the question is not completely right, but it is true that $ mathbb{Q}[x]/(x^2 - 2) cong mathbb{Q}(sqrt{2}) $; in the former, it can be shown via an induction argument that every element of the former can be represented by a polynomial of $ mathbb{Q}[x] $ of degree less than 2; in the latter, the elements are as you said, written of the form $ a + b sqrt{2}, a, b in mathbb{Q} $. The idea behind it is, $ x^2 - 2 $ has no roots in $ mathbb{Q} $, but if you quotient this polynomial out, it is now the zero coset. In particular, $ overline{x} = x $ is a root since by our quotienting relation, $x^2 cong 2 $. The quotienting process identifies $x^2 - 2 $ with 0, same as saying $x^2 $ is identified with 2. Using the lemma I mentioned, you can then find the natural isomorphism $ mathbb{Q}[x]/(x^2 - 2) cong mathbb{Q}(sqrt{2}), overline{x} mapsto sqrt{2} $.
add a comment |
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3 Answers
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If this is how the problem is really phrased, I take a slight issue with this. There is a canonical isomorphism of the ring $E=mathbb{Q}[x]/(x^2-2)$ with the ring $F=mathbb{Q}(sqrt{2})$, the latter of which is literally all real numbers of the form $a+bsqrt{2}$ for $a, b in mathbb{Q}$. But elements of $E$ are cosets of the form $f(x) + (x^2-2)$ where $f(x) in mathbb{Q}[x]$ and not real numbers like $a+bsqrt{2}$.
Here's what they're getting at. Take an element $f(x) + (x^2-2)$ in $E$. Long divide $f(x)$ by $x^2-2$ to write
$$
f(x) = (x^2-2)q(x)+r(x)
$$
with $r(x)=0$ or $deg r(x) leq 1$. Then clearly the cosets $f(x) + (x^2-2)$
and $r(x) + (x^2-2)$ are equal since $f(x)-r(x) in (x^2-2)$. But, $r(x)=a+bx$ for some uniquely determined $a, b in mathbb{Q}$, so every element
$f(x) +(x^2-2)$ of $E$ has a unique expression as $a+bx +(x^2-2)$. So, linear (or less) representatives suffice.
In the above, $x$ plays the role of $sqrt{2}$, giving the desired representation (or, rather, "interpretation"). This is what happens in the isomorphism mentioned in the first paragraph. Evaluation at $x=sqrt{2}$ defines a ring homomorphism $phi: mathbb{Q}[x] to mathbb{Q}(sqrt{2})$. This is clearly onto since $a+bsqrt{2}$ is $phi(a+bx)$. (Look familiar?) Certainly $x^2-2$ is in the kernel of $phi$, and a long-division argument like the one above shows that $ker(phi)=(x^2-2)$. (I'm also using facts about ideals in polynomial rings over a field here.) The fundamental homomorphism theorem then shows that $phi$ induces an isomorphism $mathbb{Q}[x]/(x^2-2) cong mathbb{Q}(sqrt{2})$, as claimed above. Under this map $phi$, note that $x$ maps to $sqrt{2}$. That's what's going on in this exercise.
The question isn't exactly phrased like this, my translating abilities are just limited. The isomorphism with $mathbb{Q}(sqrt{2})$ is also very logical and makes sense but earlier exercises lead more up to the first solution. Thank you very much!
– scottbot
Nov 30 '18 at 2:08
Sure, no problem.
– Randall
Nov 30 '18 at 2:13
add a comment |
If this is how the problem is really phrased, I take a slight issue with this. There is a canonical isomorphism of the ring $E=mathbb{Q}[x]/(x^2-2)$ with the ring $F=mathbb{Q}(sqrt{2})$, the latter of which is literally all real numbers of the form $a+bsqrt{2}$ for $a, b in mathbb{Q}$. But elements of $E$ are cosets of the form $f(x) + (x^2-2)$ where $f(x) in mathbb{Q}[x]$ and not real numbers like $a+bsqrt{2}$.
Here's what they're getting at. Take an element $f(x) + (x^2-2)$ in $E$. Long divide $f(x)$ by $x^2-2$ to write
$$
f(x) = (x^2-2)q(x)+r(x)
$$
with $r(x)=0$ or $deg r(x) leq 1$. Then clearly the cosets $f(x) + (x^2-2)$
and $r(x) + (x^2-2)$ are equal since $f(x)-r(x) in (x^2-2)$. But, $r(x)=a+bx$ for some uniquely determined $a, b in mathbb{Q}$, so every element
$f(x) +(x^2-2)$ of $E$ has a unique expression as $a+bx +(x^2-2)$. So, linear (or less) representatives suffice.
In the above, $x$ plays the role of $sqrt{2}$, giving the desired representation (or, rather, "interpretation"). This is what happens in the isomorphism mentioned in the first paragraph. Evaluation at $x=sqrt{2}$ defines a ring homomorphism $phi: mathbb{Q}[x] to mathbb{Q}(sqrt{2})$. This is clearly onto since $a+bsqrt{2}$ is $phi(a+bx)$. (Look familiar?) Certainly $x^2-2$ is in the kernel of $phi$, and a long-division argument like the one above shows that $ker(phi)=(x^2-2)$. (I'm also using facts about ideals in polynomial rings over a field here.) The fundamental homomorphism theorem then shows that $phi$ induces an isomorphism $mathbb{Q}[x]/(x^2-2) cong mathbb{Q}(sqrt{2})$, as claimed above. Under this map $phi$, note that $x$ maps to $sqrt{2}$. That's what's going on in this exercise.
The question isn't exactly phrased like this, my translating abilities are just limited. The isomorphism with $mathbb{Q}(sqrt{2})$ is also very logical and makes sense but earlier exercises lead more up to the first solution. Thank you very much!
– scottbot
Nov 30 '18 at 2:08
Sure, no problem.
– Randall
Nov 30 '18 at 2:13
add a comment |
If this is how the problem is really phrased, I take a slight issue with this. There is a canonical isomorphism of the ring $E=mathbb{Q}[x]/(x^2-2)$ with the ring $F=mathbb{Q}(sqrt{2})$, the latter of which is literally all real numbers of the form $a+bsqrt{2}$ for $a, b in mathbb{Q}$. But elements of $E$ are cosets of the form $f(x) + (x^2-2)$ where $f(x) in mathbb{Q}[x]$ and not real numbers like $a+bsqrt{2}$.
Here's what they're getting at. Take an element $f(x) + (x^2-2)$ in $E$. Long divide $f(x)$ by $x^2-2$ to write
$$
f(x) = (x^2-2)q(x)+r(x)
$$
with $r(x)=0$ or $deg r(x) leq 1$. Then clearly the cosets $f(x) + (x^2-2)$
and $r(x) + (x^2-2)$ are equal since $f(x)-r(x) in (x^2-2)$. But, $r(x)=a+bx$ for some uniquely determined $a, b in mathbb{Q}$, so every element
$f(x) +(x^2-2)$ of $E$ has a unique expression as $a+bx +(x^2-2)$. So, linear (or less) representatives suffice.
In the above, $x$ plays the role of $sqrt{2}$, giving the desired representation (or, rather, "interpretation"). This is what happens in the isomorphism mentioned in the first paragraph. Evaluation at $x=sqrt{2}$ defines a ring homomorphism $phi: mathbb{Q}[x] to mathbb{Q}(sqrt{2})$. This is clearly onto since $a+bsqrt{2}$ is $phi(a+bx)$. (Look familiar?) Certainly $x^2-2$ is in the kernel of $phi$, and a long-division argument like the one above shows that $ker(phi)=(x^2-2)$. (I'm also using facts about ideals in polynomial rings over a field here.) The fundamental homomorphism theorem then shows that $phi$ induces an isomorphism $mathbb{Q}[x]/(x^2-2) cong mathbb{Q}(sqrt{2})$, as claimed above. Under this map $phi$, note that $x$ maps to $sqrt{2}$. That's what's going on in this exercise.
If this is how the problem is really phrased, I take a slight issue with this. There is a canonical isomorphism of the ring $E=mathbb{Q}[x]/(x^2-2)$ with the ring $F=mathbb{Q}(sqrt{2})$, the latter of which is literally all real numbers of the form $a+bsqrt{2}$ for $a, b in mathbb{Q}$. But elements of $E$ are cosets of the form $f(x) + (x^2-2)$ where $f(x) in mathbb{Q}[x]$ and not real numbers like $a+bsqrt{2}$.
Here's what they're getting at. Take an element $f(x) + (x^2-2)$ in $E$. Long divide $f(x)$ by $x^2-2$ to write
$$
f(x) = (x^2-2)q(x)+r(x)
$$
with $r(x)=0$ or $deg r(x) leq 1$. Then clearly the cosets $f(x) + (x^2-2)$
and $r(x) + (x^2-2)$ are equal since $f(x)-r(x) in (x^2-2)$. But, $r(x)=a+bx$ for some uniquely determined $a, b in mathbb{Q}$, so every element
$f(x) +(x^2-2)$ of $E$ has a unique expression as $a+bx +(x^2-2)$. So, linear (or less) representatives suffice.
In the above, $x$ plays the role of $sqrt{2}$, giving the desired representation (or, rather, "interpretation"). This is what happens in the isomorphism mentioned in the first paragraph. Evaluation at $x=sqrt{2}$ defines a ring homomorphism $phi: mathbb{Q}[x] to mathbb{Q}(sqrt{2})$. This is clearly onto since $a+bsqrt{2}$ is $phi(a+bx)$. (Look familiar?) Certainly $x^2-2$ is in the kernel of $phi$, and a long-division argument like the one above shows that $ker(phi)=(x^2-2)$. (I'm also using facts about ideals in polynomial rings over a field here.) The fundamental homomorphism theorem then shows that $phi$ induces an isomorphism $mathbb{Q}[x]/(x^2-2) cong mathbb{Q}(sqrt{2})$, as claimed above. Under this map $phi$, note that $x$ maps to $sqrt{2}$. That's what's going on in this exercise.
edited Nov 30 '18 at 1:49
answered Nov 30 '18 at 1:42
RandallRandall
9,17611129
9,17611129
The question isn't exactly phrased like this, my translating abilities are just limited. The isomorphism with $mathbb{Q}(sqrt{2})$ is also very logical and makes sense but earlier exercises lead more up to the first solution. Thank you very much!
– scottbot
Nov 30 '18 at 2:08
Sure, no problem.
– Randall
Nov 30 '18 at 2:13
add a comment |
The question isn't exactly phrased like this, my translating abilities are just limited. The isomorphism with $mathbb{Q}(sqrt{2})$ is also very logical and makes sense but earlier exercises lead more up to the first solution. Thank you very much!
– scottbot
Nov 30 '18 at 2:08
Sure, no problem.
– Randall
Nov 30 '18 at 2:13
The question isn't exactly phrased like this, my translating abilities are just limited. The isomorphism with $mathbb{Q}(sqrt{2})$ is also very logical and makes sense but earlier exercises lead more up to the first solution. Thank you very much!
– scottbot
Nov 30 '18 at 2:08
The question isn't exactly phrased like this, my translating abilities are just limited. The isomorphism with $mathbb{Q}(sqrt{2})$ is also very logical and makes sense but earlier exercises lead more up to the first solution. Thank you very much!
– scottbot
Nov 30 '18 at 2:08
Sure, no problem.
– Randall
Nov 30 '18 at 2:13
Sure, no problem.
– Randall
Nov 30 '18 at 2:13
add a comment |
Consider the ring homomorphism $varphi:mathbb{Q}[x]to mathbb{Q}(sqrt{2}):xmapstosqrt{2}$. What is the kernel of that homomorphism? If you work it out, you will see that the kernel is the ideal $(x^2-2)$, so that there is a natural isomorphism between $mathbb{Q}[x]/(x^2-2)$ and $mathbb{Q}(sqrt{2})$. Every element in the latter ring can clearly be written as $a+bsqrt{2}$, $a$, $bin mathbb{Q}$.
add a comment |
Consider the ring homomorphism $varphi:mathbb{Q}[x]to mathbb{Q}(sqrt{2}):xmapstosqrt{2}$. What is the kernel of that homomorphism? If you work it out, you will see that the kernel is the ideal $(x^2-2)$, so that there is a natural isomorphism between $mathbb{Q}[x]/(x^2-2)$ and $mathbb{Q}(sqrt{2})$. Every element in the latter ring can clearly be written as $a+bsqrt{2}$, $a$, $bin mathbb{Q}$.
add a comment |
Consider the ring homomorphism $varphi:mathbb{Q}[x]to mathbb{Q}(sqrt{2}):xmapstosqrt{2}$. What is the kernel of that homomorphism? If you work it out, you will see that the kernel is the ideal $(x^2-2)$, so that there is a natural isomorphism between $mathbb{Q}[x]/(x^2-2)$ and $mathbb{Q}(sqrt{2})$. Every element in the latter ring can clearly be written as $a+bsqrt{2}$, $a$, $bin mathbb{Q}$.
Consider the ring homomorphism $varphi:mathbb{Q}[x]to mathbb{Q}(sqrt{2}):xmapstosqrt{2}$. What is the kernel of that homomorphism? If you work it out, you will see that the kernel is the ideal $(x^2-2)$, so that there is a natural isomorphism between $mathbb{Q}[x]/(x^2-2)$ and $mathbb{Q}(sqrt{2})$. Every element in the latter ring can clearly be written as $a+bsqrt{2}$, $a$, $bin mathbb{Q}$.
answered Nov 30 '18 at 1:44
rogerlrogerl
17.4k22746
17.4k22746
add a comment |
add a comment |
The wording of the question is not completely right, but it is true that $ mathbb{Q}[x]/(x^2 - 2) cong mathbb{Q}(sqrt{2}) $; in the former, it can be shown via an induction argument that every element of the former can be represented by a polynomial of $ mathbb{Q}[x] $ of degree less than 2; in the latter, the elements are as you said, written of the form $ a + b sqrt{2}, a, b in mathbb{Q} $. The idea behind it is, $ x^2 - 2 $ has no roots in $ mathbb{Q} $, but if you quotient this polynomial out, it is now the zero coset. In particular, $ overline{x} = x $ is a root since by our quotienting relation, $x^2 cong 2 $. The quotienting process identifies $x^2 - 2 $ with 0, same as saying $x^2 $ is identified with 2. Using the lemma I mentioned, you can then find the natural isomorphism $ mathbb{Q}[x]/(x^2 - 2) cong mathbb{Q}(sqrt{2}), overline{x} mapsto sqrt{2} $.
add a comment |
The wording of the question is not completely right, but it is true that $ mathbb{Q}[x]/(x^2 - 2) cong mathbb{Q}(sqrt{2}) $; in the former, it can be shown via an induction argument that every element of the former can be represented by a polynomial of $ mathbb{Q}[x] $ of degree less than 2; in the latter, the elements are as you said, written of the form $ a + b sqrt{2}, a, b in mathbb{Q} $. The idea behind it is, $ x^2 - 2 $ has no roots in $ mathbb{Q} $, but if you quotient this polynomial out, it is now the zero coset. In particular, $ overline{x} = x $ is a root since by our quotienting relation, $x^2 cong 2 $. The quotienting process identifies $x^2 - 2 $ with 0, same as saying $x^2 $ is identified with 2. Using the lemma I mentioned, you can then find the natural isomorphism $ mathbb{Q}[x]/(x^2 - 2) cong mathbb{Q}(sqrt{2}), overline{x} mapsto sqrt{2} $.
add a comment |
The wording of the question is not completely right, but it is true that $ mathbb{Q}[x]/(x^2 - 2) cong mathbb{Q}(sqrt{2}) $; in the former, it can be shown via an induction argument that every element of the former can be represented by a polynomial of $ mathbb{Q}[x] $ of degree less than 2; in the latter, the elements are as you said, written of the form $ a + b sqrt{2}, a, b in mathbb{Q} $. The idea behind it is, $ x^2 - 2 $ has no roots in $ mathbb{Q} $, but if you quotient this polynomial out, it is now the zero coset. In particular, $ overline{x} = x $ is a root since by our quotienting relation, $x^2 cong 2 $. The quotienting process identifies $x^2 - 2 $ with 0, same as saying $x^2 $ is identified with 2. Using the lemma I mentioned, you can then find the natural isomorphism $ mathbb{Q}[x]/(x^2 - 2) cong mathbb{Q}(sqrt{2}), overline{x} mapsto sqrt{2} $.
The wording of the question is not completely right, but it is true that $ mathbb{Q}[x]/(x^2 - 2) cong mathbb{Q}(sqrt{2}) $; in the former, it can be shown via an induction argument that every element of the former can be represented by a polynomial of $ mathbb{Q}[x] $ of degree less than 2; in the latter, the elements are as you said, written of the form $ a + b sqrt{2}, a, b in mathbb{Q} $. The idea behind it is, $ x^2 - 2 $ has no roots in $ mathbb{Q} $, but if you quotient this polynomial out, it is now the zero coset. In particular, $ overline{x} = x $ is a root since by our quotienting relation, $x^2 cong 2 $. The quotienting process identifies $x^2 - 2 $ with 0, same as saying $x^2 $ is identified with 2. Using the lemma I mentioned, you can then find the natural isomorphism $ mathbb{Q}[x]/(x^2 - 2) cong mathbb{Q}(sqrt{2}), overline{x} mapsto sqrt{2} $.
answered Nov 30 '18 at 3:27
hhp2122hhp2122
163
163
add a comment |
add a comment |
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