Wang Sequence for the circle $S^1$
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Let $Fstackrel i to Estackrel pito S^1$ a fiber bundle over the circle $S^1$. There is a long exact sequence sequence in cohomology, called Wang:
$$dotsto H^k(E)stackrel {i^*}to H^k(F)stackrel {f^*-I}to H^k(F)stackrel deltato H^{k+1}(E)to dots ,$$
where $I$ is the identity and $f^*$ is induced by the monodromy of the bundle.
In the case of a bundle over $S^n$, $n>1$, the long exact sequence above follows from the Serre spectral sequence (see Wikipedia). However, using the presented argument, one obtains:
$$dotsto H_q(E)to E^1_{1,q-1}stackrel dto E^1_{0,q-1}to H_{q-1}(E)todots~.$$
Thus in order to conclude the Wang sequence one must identify the first page and the boundary map of the Serre spectral sequence. I hoped to avoid this.
Another way of proving the result was mentioned in this mathoverflow answer.
The strategy is to apply Mayer-Vietoris to the bundle. As I didn't do an argument like this before, I did not understand how to use monodromy.
I would appreciate if anyone could point me in the right direction in either of the two arguments.
algebraic-topology circle homology-cohomology fiber-bundles spectral-sequences
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up vote
3
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Let $Fstackrel i to Estackrel pito S^1$ a fiber bundle over the circle $S^1$. There is a long exact sequence sequence in cohomology, called Wang:
$$dotsto H^k(E)stackrel {i^*}to H^k(F)stackrel {f^*-I}to H^k(F)stackrel deltato H^{k+1}(E)to dots ,$$
where $I$ is the identity and $f^*$ is induced by the monodromy of the bundle.
In the case of a bundle over $S^n$, $n>1$, the long exact sequence above follows from the Serre spectral sequence (see Wikipedia). However, using the presented argument, one obtains:
$$dotsto H_q(E)to E^1_{1,q-1}stackrel dto E^1_{0,q-1}to H_{q-1}(E)todots~.$$
Thus in order to conclude the Wang sequence one must identify the first page and the boundary map of the Serre spectral sequence. I hoped to avoid this.
Another way of proving the result was mentioned in this mathoverflow answer.
The strategy is to apply Mayer-Vietoris to the bundle. As I didn't do an argument like this before, I did not understand how to use monodromy.
I would appreciate if anyone could point me in the right direction in either of the two arguments.
algebraic-topology circle homology-cohomology fiber-bundles spectral-sequences
add a comment |
up vote
3
down vote
favorite
up vote
3
down vote
favorite
Let $Fstackrel i to Estackrel pito S^1$ a fiber bundle over the circle $S^1$. There is a long exact sequence sequence in cohomology, called Wang:
$$dotsto H^k(E)stackrel {i^*}to H^k(F)stackrel {f^*-I}to H^k(F)stackrel deltato H^{k+1}(E)to dots ,$$
where $I$ is the identity and $f^*$ is induced by the monodromy of the bundle.
In the case of a bundle over $S^n$, $n>1$, the long exact sequence above follows from the Serre spectral sequence (see Wikipedia). However, using the presented argument, one obtains:
$$dotsto H_q(E)to E^1_{1,q-1}stackrel dto E^1_{0,q-1}to H_{q-1}(E)todots~.$$
Thus in order to conclude the Wang sequence one must identify the first page and the boundary map of the Serre spectral sequence. I hoped to avoid this.
Another way of proving the result was mentioned in this mathoverflow answer.
The strategy is to apply Mayer-Vietoris to the bundle. As I didn't do an argument like this before, I did not understand how to use monodromy.
I would appreciate if anyone could point me in the right direction in either of the two arguments.
algebraic-topology circle homology-cohomology fiber-bundles spectral-sequences
Let $Fstackrel i to Estackrel pito S^1$ a fiber bundle over the circle $S^1$. There is a long exact sequence sequence in cohomology, called Wang:
$$dotsto H^k(E)stackrel {i^*}to H^k(F)stackrel {f^*-I}to H^k(F)stackrel deltato H^{k+1}(E)to dots ,$$
where $I$ is the identity and $f^*$ is induced by the monodromy of the bundle.
In the case of a bundle over $S^n$, $n>1$, the long exact sequence above follows from the Serre spectral sequence (see Wikipedia). However, using the presented argument, one obtains:
$$dotsto H_q(E)to E^1_{1,q-1}stackrel dto E^1_{0,q-1}to H_{q-1}(E)todots~.$$
Thus in order to conclude the Wang sequence one must identify the first page and the boundary map of the Serre spectral sequence. I hoped to avoid this.
Another way of proving the result was mentioned in this mathoverflow answer.
The strategy is to apply Mayer-Vietoris to the bundle. As I didn't do an argument like this before, I did not understand how to use monodromy.
I would appreciate if anyone could point me in the right direction in either of the two arguments.
algebraic-topology circle homology-cohomology fiber-bundles spectral-sequences
algebraic-topology circle homology-cohomology fiber-bundles spectral-sequences
edited Nov 17 at 14:11
asked Nov 16 at 13:00
klirk
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2,215428
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Here is the Mayer-Vietoris argument :
Let $N,W,S,E$ be the north, west, south and east pole on the circle. Let $U=S^1setminus{E}$ and $V=S^1setminus {W}$. This is an open covering of $S^1$ such that $U$ and $V$ are contractible so that $pi^{-1}(U)$ is homeomorphic to $Ftimes U$ and even homotopicaly equivalent to $Ftimes{N}$. Similarly $pi^{-1}(V)simeq Ftimes{S}$ and $pi^{-1}(Ucap V)simeq Ftimes{N}cup Ftimes{S}$.
Now write the Mayer-Vietoris exact sequence associated to the covering of the total space $E$ by $pi^{-1}(U)$ and $pi^{-1}(V)$. This is :
$$...rightarrow H^i(E)rightarrow H^i(pi^{-1}(U))oplus H^i(pi^{-1}(V))rightarrow H^i(pi^{-1}(U cap V))rightarrow H^{i+1}(E)rightarrow ...$$
Using the above homotopy equivalence, this is :
$$...rightarrow H^i(E)rightarrow H^i(Ftimes{N})oplus H^i(Ftimes{S})rightarrow H^i(Ftimes{N})oplus H^i(Ftimes{S})rightarrow H^{i+1}(E)rightarrow ...$$
But what are the maps between these four copies of $H^i(F)$ ? So this enough to give the maps $H^i(Ftimes{N})to H^i(Ftimes{N})oplus H^i(Ftimes{S})$ and $H^i(Ftimes{S})to H^i(Ftimes{N})oplus H^i(Ftimes{S})$.
For the first one, remember that this map comes from the restriction $H^i(pi^{-1}(U))to H^i(pi^{-1}(Ucap V))$. So this the identity on $H^i(Ftimes{N})$ and a map $u:H^i(Ftimes{N})to H^i(Ftimes{S})$ which intuitively means "cohomology class lying on $Ftimes{N}$ that have been moved to $Ftimes{S}$ along the path from the north pole to the south avoiding the east (because $U=S^1setminus{E}$). You can prove this more rigorously by writing down all the diagrams with all the maps, including the homotopy equivalence. I will not do it here.
Similarly the second map $H^i(Ftimes{S})to H^i(Ftimes{N})oplus H^i(Ftimes{S})$ is the identity on the second component and a map $v:H^i(Ftimes{S})to H^i(Ftimes{N})$ which intuitively moves the cohomology classes on $Ftimes{S}$ to $Ftimes{N}$ along the path from the south pole to the north which avoids the west.
So the map in the long exact sequence looks like
$$H^i(Ftimes{N})oplus H^i(Ftimes{S})xrightarrow{begin{pmatrix}1&v\u&1 end{pmatrix}} H^i(Ftimes{N})oplus H^i(Ftimes{S})$$
The point is that there is an extra copy $H^i(F)$ on each side here and we would like to remove it. So let us have a look at its kernel and its cokernel :
- the kernel is the set of couple of classes $(x,y)$ such that $x+v(y)=0$ and $u(x)+y=0$. So this is the same as the classes $(x,-u(x))$ where $x=vu(x)$. But $vu$ is exactly the monodromy : we take a class and move it along a path going from the north to the south pole avoiding the east, and then from the south to the north avoiding the west, so a whole loop. Hence the kernel is $ker(f^*-I)$
- similarly, the cokernel is the set of couple $(x,y)$ modulo the relation $(x,y)=0$ iff $(x,y)=(a,u(a))+(v(b),b)$. But the map $(x,y)mapsto x-v(y)$ induces an isomorphism $operatorname{coker}begin{pmatrix}1&v\u&aend{pmatrix}simeq operatorname{coker}(f^*-I)$.
Thus, you can replace the map by $f^*-I:H^i(Ftimes{N})to H^i(Ftimes{N})$. Of course $H^i(Ftimes{N})$ is just $H^i(F)$ and you get the Wang sequence.
Note that to be more precise, one need to work at the level of complexes. But the argument is the same.
Thank you for your detailled and clear answer!
– klirk
Nov 17 at 17:10
add a comment |
1 Answer
1
active
oldest
votes
1 Answer
1
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
up vote
6
down vote
accepted
Here is the Mayer-Vietoris argument :
Let $N,W,S,E$ be the north, west, south and east pole on the circle. Let $U=S^1setminus{E}$ and $V=S^1setminus {W}$. This is an open covering of $S^1$ such that $U$ and $V$ are contractible so that $pi^{-1}(U)$ is homeomorphic to $Ftimes U$ and even homotopicaly equivalent to $Ftimes{N}$. Similarly $pi^{-1}(V)simeq Ftimes{S}$ and $pi^{-1}(Ucap V)simeq Ftimes{N}cup Ftimes{S}$.
Now write the Mayer-Vietoris exact sequence associated to the covering of the total space $E$ by $pi^{-1}(U)$ and $pi^{-1}(V)$. This is :
$$...rightarrow H^i(E)rightarrow H^i(pi^{-1}(U))oplus H^i(pi^{-1}(V))rightarrow H^i(pi^{-1}(U cap V))rightarrow H^{i+1}(E)rightarrow ...$$
Using the above homotopy equivalence, this is :
$$...rightarrow H^i(E)rightarrow H^i(Ftimes{N})oplus H^i(Ftimes{S})rightarrow H^i(Ftimes{N})oplus H^i(Ftimes{S})rightarrow H^{i+1}(E)rightarrow ...$$
But what are the maps between these four copies of $H^i(F)$ ? So this enough to give the maps $H^i(Ftimes{N})to H^i(Ftimes{N})oplus H^i(Ftimes{S})$ and $H^i(Ftimes{S})to H^i(Ftimes{N})oplus H^i(Ftimes{S})$.
For the first one, remember that this map comes from the restriction $H^i(pi^{-1}(U))to H^i(pi^{-1}(Ucap V))$. So this the identity on $H^i(Ftimes{N})$ and a map $u:H^i(Ftimes{N})to H^i(Ftimes{S})$ which intuitively means "cohomology class lying on $Ftimes{N}$ that have been moved to $Ftimes{S}$ along the path from the north pole to the south avoiding the east (because $U=S^1setminus{E}$). You can prove this more rigorously by writing down all the diagrams with all the maps, including the homotopy equivalence. I will not do it here.
Similarly the second map $H^i(Ftimes{S})to H^i(Ftimes{N})oplus H^i(Ftimes{S})$ is the identity on the second component and a map $v:H^i(Ftimes{S})to H^i(Ftimes{N})$ which intuitively moves the cohomology classes on $Ftimes{S}$ to $Ftimes{N}$ along the path from the south pole to the north which avoids the west.
So the map in the long exact sequence looks like
$$H^i(Ftimes{N})oplus H^i(Ftimes{S})xrightarrow{begin{pmatrix}1&v\u&1 end{pmatrix}} H^i(Ftimes{N})oplus H^i(Ftimes{S})$$
The point is that there is an extra copy $H^i(F)$ on each side here and we would like to remove it. So let us have a look at its kernel and its cokernel :
- the kernel is the set of couple of classes $(x,y)$ such that $x+v(y)=0$ and $u(x)+y=0$. So this is the same as the classes $(x,-u(x))$ where $x=vu(x)$. But $vu$ is exactly the monodromy : we take a class and move it along a path going from the north to the south pole avoiding the east, and then from the south to the north avoiding the west, so a whole loop. Hence the kernel is $ker(f^*-I)$
- similarly, the cokernel is the set of couple $(x,y)$ modulo the relation $(x,y)=0$ iff $(x,y)=(a,u(a))+(v(b),b)$. But the map $(x,y)mapsto x-v(y)$ induces an isomorphism $operatorname{coker}begin{pmatrix}1&v\u&aend{pmatrix}simeq operatorname{coker}(f^*-I)$.
Thus, you can replace the map by $f^*-I:H^i(Ftimes{N})to H^i(Ftimes{N})$. Of course $H^i(Ftimes{N})$ is just $H^i(F)$ and you get the Wang sequence.
Note that to be more precise, one need to work at the level of complexes. But the argument is the same.
Thank you for your detailled and clear answer!
– klirk
Nov 17 at 17:10
add a comment |
up vote
6
down vote
accepted
Here is the Mayer-Vietoris argument :
Let $N,W,S,E$ be the north, west, south and east pole on the circle. Let $U=S^1setminus{E}$ and $V=S^1setminus {W}$. This is an open covering of $S^1$ such that $U$ and $V$ are contractible so that $pi^{-1}(U)$ is homeomorphic to $Ftimes U$ and even homotopicaly equivalent to $Ftimes{N}$. Similarly $pi^{-1}(V)simeq Ftimes{S}$ and $pi^{-1}(Ucap V)simeq Ftimes{N}cup Ftimes{S}$.
Now write the Mayer-Vietoris exact sequence associated to the covering of the total space $E$ by $pi^{-1}(U)$ and $pi^{-1}(V)$. This is :
$$...rightarrow H^i(E)rightarrow H^i(pi^{-1}(U))oplus H^i(pi^{-1}(V))rightarrow H^i(pi^{-1}(U cap V))rightarrow H^{i+1}(E)rightarrow ...$$
Using the above homotopy equivalence, this is :
$$...rightarrow H^i(E)rightarrow H^i(Ftimes{N})oplus H^i(Ftimes{S})rightarrow H^i(Ftimes{N})oplus H^i(Ftimes{S})rightarrow H^{i+1}(E)rightarrow ...$$
But what are the maps between these four copies of $H^i(F)$ ? So this enough to give the maps $H^i(Ftimes{N})to H^i(Ftimes{N})oplus H^i(Ftimes{S})$ and $H^i(Ftimes{S})to H^i(Ftimes{N})oplus H^i(Ftimes{S})$.
For the first one, remember that this map comes from the restriction $H^i(pi^{-1}(U))to H^i(pi^{-1}(Ucap V))$. So this the identity on $H^i(Ftimes{N})$ and a map $u:H^i(Ftimes{N})to H^i(Ftimes{S})$ which intuitively means "cohomology class lying on $Ftimes{N}$ that have been moved to $Ftimes{S}$ along the path from the north pole to the south avoiding the east (because $U=S^1setminus{E}$). You can prove this more rigorously by writing down all the diagrams with all the maps, including the homotopy equivalence. I will not do it here.
Similarly the second map $H^i(Ftimes{S})to H^i(Ftimes{N})oplus H^i(Ftimes{S})$ is the identity on the second component and a map $v:H^i(Ftimes{S})to H^i(Ftimes{N})$ which intuitively moves the cohomology classes on $Ftimes{S}$ to $Ftimes{N}$ along the path from the south pole to the north which avoids the west.
So the map in the long exact sequence looks like
$$H^i(Ftimes{N})oplus H^i(Ftimes{S})xrightarrow{begin{pmatrix}1&v\u&1 end{pmatrix}} H^i(Ftimes{N})oplus H^i(Ftimes{S})$$
The point is that there is an extra copy $H^i(F)$ on each side here and we would like to remove it. So let us have a look at its kernel and its cokernel :
- the kernel is the set of couple of classes $(x,y)$ such that $x+v(y)=0$ and $u(x)+y=0$. So this is the same as the classes $(x,-u(x))$ where $x=vu(x)$. But $vu$ is exactly the monodromy : we take a class and move it along a path going from the north to the south pole avoiding the east, and then from the south to the north avoiding the west, so a whole loop. Hence the kernel is $ker(f^*-I)$
- similarly, the cokernel is the set of couple $(x,y)$ modulo the relation $(x,y)=0$ iff $(x,y)=(a,u(a))+(v(b),b)$. But the map $(x,y)mapsto x-v(y)$ induces an isomorphism $operatorname{coker}begin{pmatrix}1&v\u&aend{pmatrix}simeq operatorname{coker}(f^*-I)$.
Thus, you can replace the map by $f^*-I:H^i(Ftimes{N})to H^i(Ftimes{N})$. Of course $H^i(Ftimes{N})$ is just $H^i(F)$ and you get the Wang sequence.
Note that to be more precise, one need to work at the level of complexes. But the argument is the same.
Thank you for your detailled and clear answer!
– klirk
Nov 17 at 17:10
add a comment |
up vote
6
down vote
accepted
up vote
6
down vote
accepted
Here is the Mayer-Vietoris argument :
Let $N,W,S,E$ be the north, west, south and east pole on the circle. Let $U=S^1setminus{E}$ and $V=S^1setminus {W}$. This is an open covering of $S^1$ such that $U$ and $V$ are contractible so that $pi^{-1}(U)$ is homeomorphic to $Ftimes U$ and even homotopicaly equivalent to $Ftimes{N}$. Similarly $pi^{-1}(V)simeq Ftimes{S}$ and $pi^{-1}(Ucap V)simeq Ftimes{N}cup Ftimes{S}$.
Now write the Mayer-Vietoris exact sequence associated to the covering of the total space $E$ by $pi^{-1}(U)$ and $pi^{-1}(V)$. This is :
$$...rightarrow H^i(E)rightarrow H^i(pi^{-1}(U))oplus H^i(pi^{-1}(V))rightarrow H^i(pi^{-1}(U cap V))rightarrow H^{i+1}(E)rightarrow ...$$
Using the above homotopy equivalence, this is :
$$...rightarrow H^i(E)rightarrow H^i(Ftimes{N})oplus H^i(Ftimes{S})rightarrow H^i(Ftimes{N})oplus H^i(Ftimes{S})rightarrow H^{i+1}(E)rightarrow ...$$
But what are the maps between these four copies of $H^i(F)$ ? So this enough to give the maps $H^i(Ftimes{N})to H^i(Ftimes{N})oplus H^i(Ftimes{S})$ and $H^i(Ftimes{S})to H^i(Ftimes{N})oplus H^i(Ftimes{S})$.
For the first one, remember that this map comes from the restriction $H^i(pi^{-1}(U))to H^i(pi^{-1}(Ucap V))$. So this the identity on $H^i(Ftimes{N})$ and a map $u:H^i(Ftimes{N})to H^i(Ftimes{S})$ which intuitively means "cohomology class lying on $Ftimes{N}$ that have been moved to $Ftimes{S}$ along the path from the north pole to the south avoiding the east (because $U=S^1setminus{E}$). You can prove this more rigorously by writing down all the diagrams with all the maps, including the homotopy equivalence. I will not do it here.
Similarly the second map $H^i(Ftimes{S})to H^i(Ftimes{N})oplus H^i(Ftimes{S})$ is the identity on the second component and a map $v:H^i(Ftimes{S})to H^i(Ftimes{N})$ which intuitively moves the cohomology classes on $Ftimes{S}$ to $Ftimes{N}$ along the path from the south pole to the north which avoids the west.
So the map in the long exact sequence looks like
$$H^i(Ftimes{N})oplus H^i(Ftimes{S})xrightarrow{begin{pmatrix}1&v\u&1 end{pmatrix}} H^i(Ftimes{N})oplus H^i(Ftimes{S})$$
The point is that there is an extra copy $H^i(F)$ on each side here and we would like to remove it. So let us have a look at its kernel and its cokernel :
- the kernel is the set of couple of classes $(x,y)$ such that $x+v(y)=0$ and $u(x)+y=0$. So this is the same as the classes $(x,-u(x))$ where $x=vu(x)$. But $vu$ is exactly the monodromy : we take a class and move it along a path going from the north to the south pole avoiding the east, and then from the south to the north avoiding the west, so a whole loop. Hence the kernel is $ker(f^*-I)$
- similarly, the cokernel is the set of couple $(x,y)$ modulo the relation $(x,y)=0$ iff $(x,y)=(a,u(a))+(v(b),b)$. But the map $(x,y)mapsto x-v(y)$ induces an isomorphism $operatorname{coker}begin{pmatrix}1&v\u&aend{pmatrix}simeq operatorname{coker}(f^*-I)$.
Thus, you can replace the map by $f^*-I:H^i(Ftimes{N})to H^i(Ftimes{N})$. Of course $H^i(Ftimes{N})$ is just $H^i(F)$ and you get the Wang sequence.
Note that to be more precise, one need to work at the level of complexes. But the argument is the same.
Here is the Mayer-Vietoris argument :
Let $N,W,S,E$ be the north, west, south and east pole on the circle. Let $U=S^1setminus{E}$ and $V=S^1setminus {W}$. This is an open covering of $S^1$ such that $U$ and $V$ are contractible so that $pi^{-1}(U)$ is homeomorphic to $Ftimes U$ and even homotopicaly equivalent to $Ftimes{N}$. Similarly $pi^{-1}(V)simeq Ftimes{S}$ and $pi^{-1}(Ucap V)simeq Ftimes{N}cup Ftimes{S}$.
Now write the Mayer-Vietoris exact sequence associated to the covering of the total space $E$ by $pi^{-1}(U)$ and $pi^{-1}(V)$. This is :
$$...rightarrow H^i(E)rightarrow H^i(pi^{-1}(U))oplus H^i(pi^{-1}(V))rightarrow H^i(pi^{-1}(U cap V))rightarrow H^{i+1}(E)rightarrow ...$$
Using the above homotopy equivalence, this is :
$$...rightarrow H^i(E)rightarrow H^i(Ftimes{N})oplus H^i(Ftimes{S})rightarrow H^i(Ftimes{N})oplus H^i(Ftimes{S})rightarrow H^{i+1}(E)rightarrow ...$$
But what are the maps between these four copies of $H^i(F)$ ? So this enough to give the maps $H^i(Ftimes{N})to H^i(Ftimes{N})oplus H^i(Ftimes{S})$ and $H^i(Ftimes{S})to H^i(Ftimes{N})oplus H^i(Ftimes{S})$.
For the first one, remember that this map comes from the restriction $H^i(pi^{-1}(U))to H^i(pi^{-1}(Ucap V))$. So this the identity on $H^i(Ftimes{N})$ and a map $u:H^i(Ftimes{N})to H^i(Ftimes{S})$ which intuitively means "cohomology class lying on $Ftimes{N}$ that have been moved to $Ftimes{S}$ along the path from the north pole to the south avoiding the east (because $U=S^1setminus{E}$). You can prove this more rigorously by writing down all the diagrams with all the maps, including the homotopy equivalence. I will not do it here.
Similarly the second map $H^i(Ftimes{S})to H^i(Ftimes{N})oplus H^i(Ftimes{S})$ is the identity on the second component and a map $v:H^i(Ftimes{S})to H^i(Ftimes{N})$ which intuitively moves the cohomology classes on $Ftimes{S}$ to $Ftimes{N}$ along the path from the south pole to the north which avoids the west.
So the map in the long exact sequence looks like
$$H^i(Ftimes{N})oplus H^i(Ftimes{S})xrightarrow{begin{pmatrix}1&v\u&1 end{pmatrix}} H^i(Ftimes{N})oplus H^i(Ftimes{S})$$
The point is that there is an extra copy $H^i(F)$ on each side here and we would like to remove it. So let us have a look at its kernel and its cokernel :
- the kernel is the set of couple of classes $(x,y)$ such that $x+v(y)=0$ and $u(x)+y=0$. So this is the same as the classes $(x,-u(x))$ where $x=vu(x)$. But $vu$ is exactly the monodromy : we take a class and move it along a path going from the north to the south pole avoiding the east, and then from the south to the north avoiding the west, so a whole loop. Hence the kernel is $ker(f^*-I)$
- similarly, the cokernel is the set of couple $(x,y)$ modulo the relation $(x,y)=0$ iff $(x,y)=(a,u(a))+(v(b),b)$. But the map $(x,y)mapsto x-v(y)$ induces an isomorphism $operatorname{coker}begin{pmatrix}1&v\u&aend{pmatrix}simeq operatorname{coker}(f^*-I)$.
Thus, you can replace the map by $f^*-I:H^i(Ftimes{N})to H^i(Ftimes{N})$. Of course $H^i(Ftimes{N})$ is just $H^i(F)$ and you get the Wang sequence.
Note that to be more precise, one need to work at the level of complexes. But the argument is the same.
answered Nov 17 at 16:27
Roland
6,7591813
6,7591813
Thank you for your detailled and clear answer!
– klirk
Nov 17 at 17:10
add a comment |
Thank you for your detailled and clear answer!
– klirk
Nov 17 at 17:10
Thank you for your detailled and clear answer!
– klirk
Nov 17 at 17:10
Thank you for your detailled and clear answer!
– klirk
Nov 17 at 17:10
add a comment |
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