Nodal Centres in a Finite-Volume Approach











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Consider the finite volume element in a cylindrical coordinate system shown in the figure below whose faces are bounded by the radii $r=bar{r}_{i-1}$ and $r=bar{r}_{i}$.
enter image description here



The issue is how to correctly determine the nodal centre of this element. The conventional approach appears to be to use the geometric mid-point radius as the nodal location such that



$$
r_i = frac{1}{2}(bar{r}_{i-1}+bar{r}_{i-1})
hspace{2cm}text{[Eq. 1]}
$$



I believe that a better definition can be determined as follows. Let us describe the variation of some physical entity $phi(r)$ over the interval $bar{r}_{i-1}le rle bar{r}_{i}$ about some point $r_i$ in a first order Taylor expansion as



$$
phi(r)=phi(r_i) + frac{partialphi}{partial r}Bigg|_{r=r_i}(r-r_i) + O(|r-r_i|^2)
hspace{2cm}text{[Eq. 2]}
$$



Now, let us propose that this nodal location should be such that the value of the property $phi(r)$ is representative of the entire element such that its volumetric integral can be expressed as



$$
Vphi(r_i)=int_{r=bar{r}_{i-1}}^{r=bar{r}_{i}}phi(r)rdr
hspace{2cm}text{[Eq. 3]}
$$



where



$$
V=int_{r=bar{r}_{i-1}}^{r=bar{r}_{i}}rdr=frac{1}{2}(bar{r}_{i}^2-bar{r}_{i-1}^2)
hspace{2cm}text{[Eq. 4]}
$$



Substituting [Eq. 2] in [Eq. 3] results in



$$
int_{r=bar{r}_{i-1}}^{r=bar{r}_{i}}(r-r_i)rdr =0
hspace{2cm}text{[Eq. 5]}
$$



from which the nodal centre $r_i$ is



$$
r_i=
frac{2}{3}
frac
{bar{r}_{i}^3-bar{r}_{i-1}^3}
{bar{r}_{i}^2-bar{r}_{i-1}^2}
hspace{2cm}text{[Eq. 6]}
$$



which I will note, is also different from the neutral radius (volume bisector) i.e.,



$$
r_i=
sqrtfrac
{bar{r}_{i}^2+bar{r}_{i-1}^2}{2}
hspace{2cm}text{[Eq. 7]}
$$



Questions:



1) I couldn’t find anything along the lines of Eq. (6) in the literature. I don’t even know what to formally name this radius. Could someone point me to a reference utilising the same or a similar approach.



2) Do you agree with the rationale that I used in deriving [Eq. 6]. If not, why?



The differences between the radius estimates are minuscule and largely negligible as seen in the table below Both nodal centre estimates were implemented in a nodal analysis. The differences in the nodal temperatures are less than 1%, but greater than the % difference between the nodal centre estimates themselves.



enter image description here










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    up vote
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    down vote

    favorite












    Consider the finite volume element in a cylindrical coordinate system shown in the figure below whose faces are bounded by the radii $r=bar{r}_{i-1}$ and $r=bar{r}_{i}$.
    enter image description here



    The issue is how to correctly determine the nodal centre of this element. The conventional approach appears to be to use the geometric mid-point radius as the nodal location such that



    $$
    r_i = frac{1}{2}(bar{r}_{i-1}+bar{r}_{i-1})
    hspace{2cm}text{[Eq. 1]}
    $$



    I believe that a better definition can be determined as follows. Let us describe the variation of some physical entity $phi(r)$ over the interval $bar{r}_{i-1}le rle bar{r}_{i}$ about some point $r_i$ in a first order Taylor expansion as



    $$
    phi(r)=phi(r_i) + frac{partialphi}{partial r}Bigg|_{r=r_i}(r-r_i) + O(|r-r_i|^2)
    hspace{2cm}text{[Eq. 2]}
    $$



    Now, let us propose that this nodal location should be such that the value of the property $phi(r)$ is representative of the entire element such that its volumetric integral can be expressed as



    $$
    Vphi(r_i)=int_{r=bar{r}_{i-1}}^{r=bar{r}_{i}}phi(r)rdr
    hspace{2cm}text{[Eq. 3]}
    $$



    where



    $$
    V=int_{r=bar{r}_{i-1}}^{r=bar{r}_{i}}rdr=frac{1}{2}(bar{r}_{i}^2-bar{r}_{i-1}^2)
    hspace{2cm}text{[Eq. 4]}
    $$



    Substituting [Eq. 2] in [Eq. 3] results in



    $$
    int_{r=bar{r}_{i-1}}^{r=bar{r}_{i}}(r-r_i)rdr =0
    hspace{2cm}text{[Eq. 5]}
    $$



    from which the nodal centre $r_i$ is



    $$
    r_i=
    frac{2}{3}
    frac
    {bar{r}_{i}^3-bar{r}_{i-1}^3}
    {bar{r}_{i}^2-bar{r}_{i-1}^2}
    hspace{2cm}text{[Eq. 6]}
    $$



    which I will note, is also different from the neutral radius (volume bisector) i.e.,



    $$
    r_i=
    sqrtfrac
    {bar{r}_{i}^2+bar{r}_{i-1}^2}{2}
    hspace{2cm}text{[Eq. 7]}
    $$



    Questions:



    1) I couldn’t find anything along the lines of Eq. (6) in the literature. I don’t even know what to formally name this radius. Could someone point me to a reference utilising the same or a similar approach.



    2) Do you agree with the rationale that I used in deriving [Eq. 6]. If not, why?



    The differences between the radius estimates are minuscule and largely negligible as seen in the table below Both nodal centre estimates were implemented in a nodal analysis. The differences in the nodal temperatures are less than 1%, but greater than the % difference between the nodal centre estimates themselves.



    enter image description here










    share|cite|improve this question


























      up vote
      0
      down vote

      favorite









      up vote
      0
      down vote

      favorite











      Consider the finite volume element in a cylindrical coordinate system shown in the figure below whose faces are bounded by the radii $r=bar{r}_{i-1}$ and $r=bar{r}_{i}$.
      enter image description here



      The issue is how to correctly determine the nodal centre of this element. The conventional approach appears to be to use the geometric mid-point radius as the nodal location such that



      $$
      r_i = frac{1}{2}(bar{r}_{i-1}+bar{r}_{i-1})
      hspace{2cm}text{[Eq. 1]}
      $$



      I believe that a better definition can be determined as follows. Let us describe the variation of some physical entity $phi(r)$ over the interval $bar{r}_{i-1}le rle bar{r}_{i}$ about some point $r_i$ in a first order Taylor expansion as



      $$
      phi(r)=phi(r_i) + frac{partialphi}{partial r}Bigg|_{r=r_i}(r-r_i) + O(|r-r_i|^2)
      hspace{2cm}text{[Eq. 2]}
      $$



      Now, let us propose that this nodal location should be such that the value of the property $phi(r)$ is representative of the entire element such that its volumetric integral can be expressed as



      $$
      Vphi(r_i)=int_{r=bar{r}_{i-1}}^{r=bar{r}_{i}}phi(r)rdr
      hspace{2cm}text{[Eq. 3]}
      $$



      where



      $$
      V=int_{r=bar{r}_{i-1}}^{r=bar{r}_{i}}rdr=frac{1}{2}(bar{r}_{i}^2-bar{r}_{i-1}^2)
      hspace{2cm}text{[Eq. 4]}
      $$



      Substituting [Eq. 2] in [Eq. 3] results in



      $$
      int_{r=bar{r}_{i-1}}^{r=bar{r}_{i}}(r-r_i)rdr =0
      hspace{2cm}text{[Eq. 5]}
      $$



      from which the nodal centre $r_i$ is



      $$
      r_i=
      frac{2}{3}
      frac
      {bar{r}_{i}^3-bar{r}_{i-1}^3}
      {bar{r}_{i}^2-bar{r}_{i-1}^2}
      hspace{2cm}text{[Eq. 6]}
      $$



      which I will note, is also different from the neutral radius (volume bisector) i.e.,



      $$
      r_i=
      sqrtfrac
      {bar{r}_{i}^2+bar{r}_{i-1}^2}{2}
      hspace{2cm}text{[Eq. 7]}
      $$



      Questions:



      1) I couldn’t find anything along the lines of Eq. (6) in the literature. I don’t even know what to formally name this radius. Could someone point me to a reference utilising the same or a similar approach.



      2) Do you agree with the rationale that I used in deriving [Eq. 6]. If not, why?



      The differences between the radius estimates are minuscule and largely negligible as seen in the table below Both nodal centre estimates were implemented in a nodal analysis. The differences in the nodal temperatures are less than 1%, but greater than the % difference between the nodal centre estimates themselves.



      enter image description here










      share|cite|improve this question















      Consider the finite volume element in a cylindrical coordinate system shown in the figure below whose faces are bounded by the radii $r=bar{r}_{i-1}$ and $r=bar{r}_{i}$.
      enter image description here



      The issue is how to correctly determine the nodal centre of this element. The conventional approach appears to be to use the geometric mid-point radius as the nodal location such that



      $$
      r_i = frac{1}{2}(bar{r}_{i-1}+bar{r}_{i-1})
      hspace{2cm}text{[Eq. 1]}
      $$



      I believe that a better definition can be determined as follows. Let us describe the variation of some physical entity $phi(r)$ over the interval $bar{r}_{i-1}le rle bar{r}_{i}$ about some point $r_i$ in a first order Taylor expansion as



      $$
      phi(r)=phi(r_i) + frac{partialphi}{partial r}Bigg|_{r=r_i}(r-r_i) + O(|r-r_i|^2)
      hspace{2cm}text{[Eq. 2]}
      $$



      Now, let us propose that this nodal location should be such that the value of the property $phi(r)$ is representative of the entire element such that its volumetric integral can be expressed as



      $$
      Vphi(r_i)=int_{r=bar{r}_{i-1}}^{r=bar{r}_{i}}phi(r)rdr
      hspace{2cm}text{[Eq. 3]}
      $$



      where



      $$
      V=int_{r=bar{r}_{i-1}}^{r=bar{r}_{i}}rdr=frac{1}{2}(bar{r}_{i}^2-bar{r}_{i-1}^2)
      hspace{2cm}text{[Eq. 4]}
      $$



      Substituting [Eq. 2] in [Eq. 3] results in



      $$
      int_{r=bar{r}_{i-1}}^{r=bar{r}_{i}}(r-r_i)rdr =0
      hspace{2cm}text{[Eq. 5]}
      $$



      from which the nodal centre $r_i$ is



      $$
      r_i=
      frac{2}{3}
      frac
      {bar{r}_{i}^3-bar{r}_{i-1}^3}
      {bar{r}_{i}^2-bar{r}_{i-1}^2}
      hspace{2cm}text{[Eq. 6]}
      $$



      which I will note, is also different from the neutral radius (volume bisector) i.e.,



      $$
      r_i=
      sqrtfrac
      {bar{r}_{i}^2+bar{r}_{i-1}^2}{2}
      hspace{2cm}text{[Eq. 7]}
      $$



      Questions:



      1) I couldn’t find anything along the lines of Eq. (6) in the literature. I don’t even know what to formally name this radius. Could someone point me to a reference utilising the same or a similar approach.



      2) Do you agree with the rationale that I used in deriving [Eq. 6]. If not, why?



      The differences between the radius estimates are minuscule and largely negligible as seen in the table below Both nodal centre estimates were implemented in a nodal analysis. The differences in the nodal temperatures are less than 1%, but greater than the % difference between the nodal centre estimates themselves.



      enter image description here







      centroid






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      edited Nov 16 at 4:49

























      asked Nov 15 at 23:24









      Sharat V Chandrasekhar

      40919




      40919



























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