Proving a theorem in Galois Theory in a strange manner. Is the following proof valid?
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Theorem: Let $L:K$ be a finite extension inside $mathbb{C}$, such that the fixed field of $G = Gal(L:K)$ is $K$. Then $L:K$ is normal.
Proof: Let $m$ be any irreducible polynomial over $K$ with a zero $x$ in $L$.
Since the extension is finite, so is the order of $G$. Consider now $G(x) =$ {$g(x) : g in G$}.
We show that any $g' in G$ permutes the elements in $G(x)$.
Write $G(x)=$ {$x_1, ..., x_n$}. Let $g' in G$ and without loss of generality put $g'(x) = g_1(x) = x_1$. There exist $g_2, ..., g_n in G$ such that $g_i(x) = x_i$. So that we have {$g_1, ..., g_n$}$subseteq G$ with $G(x) =$ {$g_1(x), ..., g_n(x)$}. Define an operation on $G(x)$ by
$$x_i cdot x_j = g_i(x) cdot g_j(x) = g_ig_j(x)$$
$G(x)$ forms a group under such operation:
Closure: $x_i cdot x_j = g_ig_j(x) in G(x)$
Identity: $x in G(x)$, thus $g_r(x) = x$ for some $r$. Therefore for any $x_i in G(x)$, we have $x_i cdot x_r = g_ig_r(x) = g_i(x) = x_i$. Similarly $x_r cdot x_i = x_i$ for any $x_i in G(x)$.
Inverses: for all $x_i in G(x)$, we have $g_i^{-1}(x) = g_j(x) in G(x)$. So that $x_i cdot x_j = g_ig_j(x) = x$. Similarly $x_j cdot x_i = x$.
Associativity: $(x_a cdot x_b) cdot x_c = g_ag_b(x) cdot g_c(x) = g_ag_bg_c(x) = g_a(x) cdot g_bg_c(x) = x_a cdot (x_b cdot x_c)$.
By standard Group Theory $g' = g_1$ permutes $G(x)$.
Now let $p(t) = (t-x_1)...(t-x_n)$. Since any element $g in G$ permutes {$x_1, ..., x_n$}, we have $g(p(t)) = p(t)$ for all $g in G$, and thus $p(t) in G_0[t]$ where $G_0$ is the fixed field of $G$. But such field is $K$, therefore $p(t) in K[t]$. Now $m$ divides $p$ in $K[t]$, so that $p = qm$. All the zeroes of $m$ are then in $G(x)$, but $G(x) subseteq L$, thus $m$ splits in $L$.
Is the proof above correct?
abstract-algebra group-theory proof-verification field-theory galois-theory
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Theorem: Let $L:K$ be a finite extension inside $mathbb{C}$, such that the fixed field of $G = Gal(L:K)$ is $K$. Then $L:K$ is normal.
Proof: Let $m$ be any irreducible polynomial over $K$ with a zero $x$ in $L$.
Since the extension is finite, so is the order of $G$. Consider now $G(x) =$ {$g(x) : g in G$}.
We show that any $g' in G$ permutes the elements in $G(x)$.
Write $G(x)=$ {$x_1, ..., x_n$}. Let $g' in G$ and without loss of generality put $g'(x) = g_1(x) = x_1$. There exist $g_2, ..., g_n in G$ such that $g_i(x) = x_i$. So that we have {$g_1, ..., g_n$}$subseteq G$ with $G(x) =$ {$g_1(x), ..., g_n(x)$}. Define an operation on $G(x)$ by
$$x_i cdot x_j = g_i(x) cdot g_j(x) = g_ig_j(x)$$
$G(x)$ forms a group under such operation:
Closure: $x_i cdot x_j = g_ig_j(x) in G(x)$
Identity: $x in G(x)$, thus $g_r(x) = x$ for some $r$. Therefore for any $x_i in G(x)$, we have $x_i cdot x_r = g_ig_r(x) = g_i(x) = x_i$. Similarly $x_r cdot x_i = x_i$ for any $x_i in G(x)$.
Inverses: for all $x_i in G(x)$, we have $g_i^{-1}(x) = g_j(x) in G(x)$. So that $x_i cdot x_j = g_ig_j(x) = x$. Similarly $x_j cdot x_i = x$.
Associativity: $(x_a cdot x_b) cdot x_c = g_ag_b(x) cdot g_c(x) = g_ag_bg_c(x) = g_a(x) cdot g_bg_c(x) = x_a cdot (x_b cdot x_c)$.
By standard Group Theory $g' = g_1$ permutes $G(x)$.
Now let $p(t) = (t-x_1)...(t-x_n)$. Since any element $g in G$ permutes {$x_1, ..., x_n$}, we have $g(p(t)) = p(t)$ for all $g in G$, and thus $p(t) in G_0[t]$ where $G_0$ is the fixed field of $G$. But such field is $K$, therefore $p(t) in K[t]$. Now $m$ divides $p$ in $K[t]$, so that $p = qm$. All the zeroes of $m$ are then in $G(x)$, but $G(x) subseteq L$, thus $m$ splits in $L$.
Is the proof above correct?
abstract-algebra group-theory proof-verification field-theory galois-theory
$endgroup$
2
$begingroup$
@DonAntonio. Please notice that $x_i cdot x_j$ does not mean $x_i$ multiplied by $x_j$. It is instead defined to mean $g_ig_j(x)$.
$endgroup$
– Leo
Dec 23 '18 at 17:19
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Ah, I completely oversaw that piece of info. Thanks.
$endgroup$
– DonAntonio
Dec 23 '18 at 18:09
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Theorem: Let $L:K$ be a finite extension inside $mathbb{C}$, such that the fixed field of $G = Gal(L:K)$ is $K$. Then $L:K$ is normal.
Proof: Let $m$ be any irreducible polynomial over $K$ with a zero $x$ in $L$.
Since the extension is finite, so is the order of $G$. Consider now $G(x) =$ {$g(x) : g in G$}.
We show that any $g' in G$ permutes the elements in $G(x)$.
Write $G(x)=$ {$x_1, ..., x_n$}. Let $g' in G$ and without loss of generality put $g'(x) = g_1(x) = x_1$. There exist $g_2, ..., g_n in G$ such that $g_i(x) = x_i$. So that we have {$g_1, ..., g_n$}$subseteq G$ with $G(x) =$ {$g_1(x), ..., g_n(x)$}. Define an operation on $G(x)$ by
$$x_i cdot x_j = g_i(x) cdot g_j(x) = g_ig_j(x)$$
$G(x)$ forms a group under such operation:
Closure: $x_i cdot x_j = g_ig_j(x) in G(x)$
Identity: $x in G(x)$, thus $g_r(x) = x$ for some $r$. Therefore for any $x_i in G(x)$, we have $x_i cdot x_r = g_ig_r(x) = g_i(x) = x_i$. Similarly $x_r cdot x_i = x_i$ for any $x_i in G(x)$.
Inverses: for all $x_i in G(x)$, we have $g_i^{-1}(x) = g_j(x) in G(x)$. So that $x_i cdot x_j = g_ig_j(x) = x$. Similarly $x_j cdot x_i = x$.
Associativity: $(x_a cdot x_b) cdot x_c = g_ag_b(x) cdot g_c(x) = g_ag_bg_c(x) = g_a(x) cdot g_bg_c(x) = x_a cdot (x_b cdot x_c)$.
By standard Group Theory $g' = g_1$ permutes $G(x)$.
Now let $p(t) = (t-x_1)...(t-x_n)$. Since any element $g in G$ permutes {$x_1, ..., x_n$}, we have $g(p(t)) = p(t)$ for all $g in G$, and thus $p(t) in G_0[t]$ where $G_0$ is the fixed field of $G$. But such field is $K$, therefore $p(t) in K[t]$. Now $m$ divides $p$ in $K[t]$, so that $p = qm$. All the zeroes of $m$ are then in $G(x)$, but $G(x) subseteq L$, thus $m$ splits in $L$.
Is the proof above correct?
abstract-algebra group-theory proof-verification field-theory galois-theory
$endgroup$
Theorem: Let $L:K$ be a finite extension inside $mathbb{C}$, such that the fixed field of $G = Gal(L:K)$ is $K$. Then $L:K$ is normal.
Proof: Let $m$ be any irreducible polynomial over $K$ with a zero $x$ in $L$.
Since the extension is finite, so is the order of $G$. Consider now $G(x) =$ {$g(x) : g in G$}.
We show that any $g' in G$ permutes the elements in $G(x)$.
Write $G(x)=$ {$x_1, ..., x_n$}. Let $g' in G$ and without loss of generality put $g'(x) = g_1(x) = x_1$. There exist $g_2, ..., g_n in G$ such that $g_i(x) = x_i$. So that we have {$g_1, ..., g_n$}$subseteq G$ with $G(x) =$ {$g_1(x), ..., g_n(x)$}. Define an operation on $G(x)$ by
$$x_i cdot x_j = g_i(x) cdot g_j(x) = g_ig_j(x)$$
$G(x)$ forms a group under such operation:
Closure: $x_i cdot x_j = g_ig_j(x) in G(x)$
Identity: $x in G(x)$, thus $g_r(x) = x$ for some $r$. Therefore for any $x_i in G(x)$, we have $x_i cdot x_r = g_ig_r(x) = g_i(x) = x_i$. Similarly $x_r cdot x_i = x_i$ for any $x_i in G(x)$.
Inverses: for all $x_i in G(x)$, we have $g_i^{-1}(x) = g_j(x) in G(x)$. So that $x_i cdot x_j = g_ig_j(x) = x$. Similarly $x_j cdot x_i = x$.
Associativity: $(x_a cdot x_b) cdot x_c = g_ag_b(x) cdot g_c(x) = g_ag_bg_c(x) = g_a(x) cdot g_bg_c(x) = x_a cdot (x_b cdot x_c)$.
By standard Group Theory $g' = g_1$ permutes $G(x)$.
Now let $p(t) = (t-x_1)...(t-x_n)$. Since any element $g in G$ permutes {$x_1, ..., x_n$}, we have $g(p(t)) = p(t)$ for all $g in G$, and thus $p(t) in G_0[t]$ where $G_0$ is the fixed field of $G$. But such field is $K$, therefore $p(t) in K[t]$. Now $m$ divides $p$ in $K[t]$, so that $p = qm$. All the zeroes of $m$ are then in $G(x)$, but $G(x) subseteq L$, thus $m$ splits in $L$.
Is the proof above correct?
abstract-algebra group-theory proof-verification field-theory galois-theory
abstract-algebra group-theory proof-verification field-theory galois-theory
edited Dec 23 '18 at 17:20
Leo
asked Dec 23 '18 at 16:48
LeoLeo
783517
783517
2
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@DonAntonio. Please notice that $x_i cdot x_j$ does not mean $x_i$ multiplied by $x_j$. It is instead defined to mean $g_ig_j(x)$.
$endgroup$
– Leo
Dec 23 '18 at 17:19
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Ah, I completely oversaw that piece of info. Thanks.
$endgroup$
– DonAntonio
Dec 23 '18 at 18:09
add a comment |
2
$begingroup$
@DonAntonio. Please notice that $x_i cdot x_j$ does not mean $x_i$ multiplied by $x_j$. It is instead defined to mean $g_ig_j(x)$.
$endgroup$
– Leo
Dec 23 '18 at 17:19
$begingroup$
Ah, I completely oversaw that piece of info. Thanks.
$endgroup$
– DonAntonio
Dec 23 '18 at 18:09
2
2
$begingroup$
@DonAntonio. Please notice that $x_i cdot x_j$ does not mean $x_i$ multiplied by $x_j$. It is instead defined to mean $g_ig_j(x)$.
$endgroup$
– Leo
Dec 23 '18 at 17:19
$begingroup$
@DonAntonio. Please notice that $x_i cdot x_j$ does not mean $x_i$ multiplied by $x_j$. It is instead defined to mean $g_ig_j(x)$.
$endgroup$
– Leo
Dec 23 '18 at 17:19
$begingroup$
Ah, I completely oversaw that piece of info. Thanks.
$endgroup$
– DonAntonio
Dec 23 '18 at 18:09
$begingroup$
Ah, I completely oversaw that piece of info. Thanks.
$endgroup$
– DonAntonio
Dec 23 '18 at 18:09
add a comment |
1 Answer
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It's not generally true that the selected subset of $G$, ${g_1,ldots,g_n}$ forms a group. You're trying to argue that a transitive group action induces a group structure on a set, which is not true in general. For example, how does $S_n$ acting on ${1,ldots,n}$ induce a group structure on ${1,ldots,n}$?
Thus your proofs of existence of identity and inverses fail in general, because it's not clear (indeed, it isn't true generally) that $g_ig_j$ will equal the element of $G$ that you've selected that sends $x$ to $g_ig_j(x)$. Thus $x_r cdot x_i = (g_rg_i)xne g_ix=x_i$ generally for identity. There is a similar problem in your proof of the existence of inverses. We have $g_i^{-1}x=x_j$ for some $j$. That gets you $x_icdot x_j = g_i(g_j x) = g_i(g_i^{-1}x)=x=x_r$. However $x_jx_i = g_jg_i x$, and all you know is that $g_ig_jx=x$, not that $g_jg_ix=x$.
That said, it should be clear that any element of $G$ permutes the elements of $G(x)$ without all of what you wrote, since for any $gxin G(x)$ and $g'in G$, $g'(gx)=(g'g)xin G(x)$. The rest looks correct to me.
Edit
While what you want to do doesn't work in general, there is a special case in which it does. If $G$ acts transitively and freely on a set $X$, then you can put a group structure on $X$ making it isomorphic to $G$ by choosing a special element $xin X$ in essentially the way you are trying to do here. See here for more info.
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You might be right, though I would like you to elaborate a bit since I´m not completely following. To be clear, I´m not claiming that $g_ig_j in $ {$g_1, ..., g_n$}. I´m merely claiming that $g_ig_j(x) in G(x)$, which follows from the fact that $g_ig_j = g_k in G$ and $g_k(x) in G(x)$.
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– Leo
Dec 23 '18 at 17:34
1
$begingroup$
@Leo Oh indeed, sorry, then in that case, closure follows by definition, you'll have problems with other axioms though, like identity. You just asserted that $x_rcdot x_i = x_i$, but $x_rcdot x_i=(g_rg_i)x ne g_ig_r x=g_ix$ necessarily.
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– jgon
Dec 23 '18 at 17:36
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Ah, you would be correct there. Just out of curiosity, could I fix the proof by allowing $g_r = id$ where $id$ is the identity automorphism in $G$?
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– Leo
Dec 23 '18 at 17:39
1
$begingroup$
@Leo no, a similar problem arises with trying to define inverses. I've now edited to fix my answer. Since $S_n$ arises as a Galois group, it might be interesting to think about why $S_n$ doesn't induce a group structure on ${1,ldots,n}$ as I mention in my first paragraph.
$endgroup$
– jgon
Dec 23 '18 at 17:41
1
$begingroup$
Because $g$ acts injectively on the whole field, so the cardinality of $gG(x)$ is the same as the cardinality of $G(x)$. Since $gG(x)subseteq G(x)$ and $G(x)$ is finite, this implies that they are equal.
$endgroup$
– jgon
Dec 23 '18 at 18:33
|
show 3 more comments
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1 Answer
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$begingroup$
It's not generally true that the selected subset of $G$, ${g_1,ldots,g_n}$ forms a group. You're trying to argue that a transitive group action induces a group structure on a set, which is not true in general. For example, how does $S_n$ acting on ${1,ldots,n}$ induce a group structure on ${1,ldots,n}$?
Thus your proofs of existence of identity and inverses fail in general, because it's not clear (indeed, it isn't true generally) that $g_ig_j$ will equal the element of $G$ that you've selected that sends $x$ to $g_ig_j(x)$. Thus $x_r cdot x_i = (g_rg_i)xne g_ix=x_i$ generally for identity. There is a similar problem in your proof of the existence of inverses. We have $g_i^{-1}x=x_j$ for some $j$. That gets you $x_icdot x_j = g_i(g_j x) = g_i(g_i^{-1}x)=x=x_r$. However $x_jx_i = g_jg_i x$, and all you know is that $g_ig_jx=x$, not that $g_jg_ix=x$.
That said, it should be clear that any element of $G$ permutes the elements of $G(x)$ without all of what you wrote, since for any $gxin G(x)$ and $g'in G$, $g'(gx)=(g'g)xin G(x)$. The rest looks correct to me.
Edit
While what you want to do doesn't work in general, there is a special case in which it does. If $G$ acts transitively and freely on a set $X$, then you can put a group structure on $X$ making it isomorphic to $G$ by choosing a special element $xin X$ in essentially the way you are trying to do here. See here for more info.
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
You might be right, though I would like you to elaborate a bit since I´m not completely following. To be clear, I´m not claiming that $g_ig_j in $ {$g_1, ..., g_n$}. I´m merely claiming that $g_ig_j(x) in G(x)$, which follows from the fact that $g_ig_j = g_k in G$ and $g_k(x) in G(x)$.
$endgroup$
– Leo
Dec 23 '18 at 17:34
1
$begingroup$
@Leo Oh indeed, sorry, then in that case, closure follows by definition, you'll have problems with other axioms though, like identity. You just asserted that $x_rcdot x_i = x_i$, but $x_rcdot x_i=(g_rg_i)x ne g_ig_r x=g_ix$ necessarily.
$endgroup$
– jgon
Dec 23 '18 at 17:36
$begingroup$
Ah, you would be correct there. Just out of curiosity, could I fix the proof by allowing $g_r = id$ where $id$ is the identity automorphism in $G$?
$endgroup$
– Leo
Dec 23 '18 at 17:39
1
$begingroup$
@Leo no, a similar problem arises with trying to define inverses. I've now edited to fix my answer. Since $S_n$ arises as a Galois group, it might be interesting to think about why $S_n$ doesn't induce a group structure on ${1,ldots,n}$ as I mention in my first paragraph.
$endgroup$
– jgon
Dec 23 '18 at 17:41
1
$begingroup$
Because $g$ acts injectively on the whole field, so the cardinality of $gG(x)$ is the same as the cardinality of $G(x)$. Since $gG(x)subseteq G(x)$ and $G(x)$ is finite, this implies that they are equal.
$endgroup$
– jgon
Dec 23 '18 at 18:33
|
show 3 more comments
$begingroup$
It's not generally true that the selected subset of $G$, ${g_1,ldots,g_n}$ forms a group. You're trying to argue that a transitive group action induces a group structure on a set, which is not true in general. For example, how does $S_n$ acting on ${1,ldots,n}$ induce a group structure on ${1,ldots,n}$?
Thus your proofs of existence of identity and inverses fail in general, because it's not clear (indeed, it isn't true generally) that $g_ig_j$ will equal the element of $G$ that you've selected that sends $x$ to $g_ig_j(x)$. Thus $x_r cdot x_i = (g_rg_i)xne g_ix=x_i$ generally for identity. There is a similar problem in your proof of the existence of inverses. We have $g_i^{-1}x=x_j$ for some $j$. That gets you $x_icdot x_j = g_i(g_j x) = g_i(g_i^{-1}x)=x=x_r$. However $x_jx_i = g_jg_i x$, and all you know is that $g_ig_jx=x$, not that $g_jg_ix=x$.
That said, it should be clear that any element of $G$ permutes the elements of $G(x)$ without all of what you wrote, since for any $gxin G(x)$ and $g'in G$, $g'(gx)=(g'g)xin G(x)$. The rest looks correct to me.
Edit
While what you want to do doesn't work in general, there is a special case in which it does. If $G$ acts transitively and freely on a set $X$, then you can put a group structure on $X$ making it isomorphic to $G$ by choosing a special element $xin X$ in essentially the way you are trying to do here. See here for more info.
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
You might be right, though I would like you to elaborate a bit since I´m not completely following. To be clear, I´m not claiming that $g_ig_j in $ {$g_1, ..., g_n$}. I´m merely claiming that $g_ig_j(x) in G(x)$, which follows from the fact that $g_ig_j = g_k in G$ and $g_k(x) in G(x)$.
$endgroup$
– Leo
Dec 23 '18 at 17:34
1
$begingroup$
@Leo Oh indeed, sorry, then in that case, closure follows by definition, you'll have problems with other axioms though, like identity. You just asserted that $x_rcdot x_i = x_i$, but $x_rcdot x_i=(g_rg_i)x ne g_ig_r x=g_ix$ necessarily.
$endgroup$
– jgon
Dec 23 '18 at 17:36
$begingroup$
Ah, you would be correct there. Just out of curiosity, could I fix the proof by allowing $g_r = id$ where $id$ is the identity automorphism in $G$?
$endgroup$
– Leo
Dec 23 '18 at 17:39
1
$begingroup$
@Leo no, a similar problem arises with trying to define inverses. I've now edited to fix my answer. Since $S_n$ arises as a Galois group, it might be interesting to think about why $S_n$ doesn't induce a group structure on ${1,ldots,n}$ as I mention in my first paragraph.
$endgroup$
– jgon
Dec 23 '18 at 17:41
1
$begingroup$
Because $g$ acts injectively on the whole field, so the cardinality of $gG(x)$ is the same as the cardinality of $G(x)$. Since $gG(x)subseteq G(x)$ and $G(x)$ is finite, this implies that they are equal.
$endgroup$
– jgon
Dec 23 '18 at 18:33
|
show 3 more comments
$begingroup$
It's not generally true that the selected subset of $G$, ${g_1,ldots,g_n}$ forms a group. You're trying to argue that a transitive group action induces a group structure on a set, which is not true in general. For example, how does $S_n$ acting on ${1,ldots,n}$ induce a group structure on ${1,ldots,n}$?
Thus your proofs of existence of identity and inverses fail in general, because it's not clear (indeed, it isn't true generally) that $g_ig_j$ will equal the element of $G$ that you've selected that sends $x$ to $g_ig_j(x)$. Thus $x_r cdot x_i = (g_rg_i)xne g_ix=x_i$ generally for identity. There is a similar problem in your proof of the existence of inverses. We have $g_i^{-1}x=x_j$ for some $j$. That gets you $x_icdot x_j = g_i(g_j x) = g_i(g_i^{-1}x)=x=x_r$. However $x_jx_i = g_jg_i x$, and all you know is that $g_ig_jx=x$, not that $g_jg_ix=x$.
That said, it should be clear that any element of $G$ permutes the elements of $G(x)$ without all of what you wrote, since for any $gxin G(x)$ and $g'in G$, $g'(gx)=(g'g)xin G(x)$. The rest looks correct to me.
Edit
While what you want to do doesn't work in general, there is a special case in which it does. If $G$ acts transitively and freely on a set $X$, then you can put a group structure on $X$ making it isomorphic to $G$ by choosing a special element $xin X$ in essentially the way you are trying to do here. See here for more info.
$endgroup$
It's not generally true that the selected subset of $G$, ${g_1,ldots,g_n}$ forms a group. You're trying to argue that a transitive group action induces a group structure on a set, which is not true in general. For example, how does $S_n$ acting on ${1,ldots,n}$ induce a group structure on ${1,ldots,n}$?
Thus your proofs of existence of identity and inverses fail in general, because it's not clear (indeed, it isn't true generally) that $g_ig_j$ will equal the element of $G$ that you've selected that sends $x$ to $g_ig_j(x)$. Thus $x_r cdot x_i = (g_rg_i)xne g_ix=x_i$ generally for identity. There is a similar problem in your proof of the existence of inverses. We have $g_i^{-1}x=x_j$ for some $j$. That gets you $x_icdot x_j = g_i(g_j x) = g_i(g_i^{-1}x)=x=x_r$. However $x_jx_i = g_jg_i x$, and all you know is that $g_ig_jx=x$, not that $g_jg_ix=x$.
That said, it should be clear that any element of $G$ permutes the elements of $G(x)$ without all of what you wrote, since for any $gxin G(x)$ and $g'in G$, $g'(gx)=(g'g)xin G(x)$. The rest looks correct to me.
Edit
While what you want to do doesn't work in general, there is a special case in which it does. If $G$ acts transitively and freely on a set $X$, then you can put a group structure on $X$ making it isomorphic to $G$ by choosing a special element $xin X$ in essentially the way you are trying to do here. See here for more info.
edited Dec 23 '18 at 17:48
answered Dec 23 '18 at 17:28
jgonjgon
15.1k32042
15.1k32042
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You might be right, though I would like you to elaborate a bit since I´m not completely following. To be clear, I´m not claiming that $g_ig_j in $ {$g_1, ..., g_n$}. I´m merely claiming that $g_ig_j(x) in G(x)$, which follows from the fact that $g_ig_j = g_k in G$ and $g_k(x) in G(x)$.
$endgroup$
– Leo
Dec 23 '18 at 17:34
1
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@Leo Oh indeed, sorry, then in that case, closure follows by definition, you'll have problems with other axioms though, like identity. You just asserted that $x_rcdot x_i = x_i$, but $x_rcdot x_i=(g_rg_i)x ne g_ig_r x=g_ix$ necessarily.
$endgroup$
– jgon
Dec 23 '18 at 17:36
$begingroup$
Ah, you would be correct there. Just out of curiosity, could I fix the proof by allowing $g_r = id$ where $id$ is the identity automorphism in $G$?
$endgroup$
– Leo
Dec 23 '18 at 17:39
1
$begingroup$
@Leo no, a similar problem arises with trying to define inverses. I've now edited to fix my answer. Since $S_n$ arises as a Galois group, it might be interesting to think about why $S_n$ doesn't induce a group structure on ${1,ldots,n}$ as I mention in my first paragraph.
$endgroup$
– jgon
Dec 23 '18 at 17:41
1
$begingroup$
Because $g$ acts injectively on the whole field, so the cardinality of $gG(x)$ is the same as the cardinality of $G(x)$. Since $gG(x)subseteq G(x)$ and $G(x)$ is finite, this implies that they are equal.
$endgroup$
– jgon
Dec 23 '18 at 18:33
|
show 3 more comments
$begingroup$
You might be right, though I would like you to elaborate a bit since I´m not completely following. To be clear, I´m not claiming that $g_ig_j in $ {$g_1, ..., g_n$}. I´m merely claiming that $g_ig_j(x) in G(x)$, which follows from the fact that $g_ig_j = g_k in G$ and $g_k(x) in G(x)$.
$endgroup$
– Leo
Dec 23 '18 at 17:34
1
$begingroup$
@Leo Oh indeed, sorry, then in that case, closure follows by definition, you'll have problems with other axioms though, like identity. You just asserted that $x_rcdot x_i = x_i$, but $x_rcdot x_i=(g_rg_i)x ne g_ig_r x=g_ix$ necessarily.
$endgroup$
– jgon
Dec 23 '18 at 17:36
$begingroup$
Ah, you would be correct there. Just out of curiosity, could I fix the proof by allowing $g_r = id$ where $id$ is the identity automorphism in $G$?
$endgroup$
– Leo
Dec 23 '18 at 17:39
1
$begingroup$
@Leo no, a similar problem arises with trying to define inverses. I've now edited to fix my answer. Since $S_n$ arises as a Galois group, it might be interesting to think about why $S_n$ doesn't induce a group structure on ${1,ldots,n}$ as I mention in my first paragraph.
$endgroup$
– jgon
Dec 23 '18 at 17:41
1
$begingroup$
Because $g$ acts injectively on the whole field, so the cardinality of $gG(x)$ is the same as the cardinality of $G(x)$. Since $gG(x)subseteq G(x)$ and $G(x)$ is finite, this implies that they are equal.
$endgroup$
– jgon
Dec 23 '18 at 18:33
$begingroup$
You might be right, though I would like you to elaborate a bit since I´m not completely following. To be clear, I´m not claiming that $g_ig_j in $ {$g_1, ..., g_n$}. I´m merely claiming that $g_ig_j(x) in G(x)$, which follows from the fact that $g_ig_j = g_k in G$ and $g_k(x) in G(x)$.
$endgroup$
– Leo
Dec 23 '18 at 17:34
$begingroup$
You might be right, though I would like you to elaborate a bit since I´m not completely following. To be clear, I´m not claiming that $g_ig_j in $ {$g_1, ..., g_n$}. I´m merely claiming that $g_ig_j(x) in G(x)$, which follows from the fact that $g_ig_j = g_k in G$ and $g_k(x) in G(x)$.
$endgroup$
– Leo
Dec 23 '18 at 17:34
1
1
$begingroup$
@Leo Oh indeed, sorry, then in that case, closure follows by definition, you'll have problems with other axioms though, like identity. You just asserted that $x_rcdot x_i = x_i$, but $x_rcdot x_i=(g_rg_i)x ne g_ig_r x=g_ix$ necessarily.
$endgroup$
– jgon
Dec 23 '18 at 17:36
$begingroup$
@Leo Oh indeed, sorry, then in that case, closure follows by definition, you'll have problems with other axioms though, like identity. You just asserted that $x_rcdot x_i = x_i$, but $x_rcdot x_i=(g_rg_i)x ne g_ig_r x=g_ix$ necessarily.
$endgroup$
– jgon
Dec 23 '18 at 17:36
$begingroup$
Ah, you would be correct there. Just out of curiosity, could I fix the proof by allowing $g_r = id$ where $id$ is the identity automorphism in $G$?
$endgroup$
– Leo
Dec 23 '18 at 17:39
$begingroup$
Ah, you would be correct there. Just out of curiosity, could I fix the proof by allowing $g_r = id$ where $id$ is the identity automorphism in $G$?
$endgroup$
– Leo
Dec 23 '18 at 17:39
1
1
$begingroup$
@Leo no, a similar problem arises with trying to define inverses. I've now edited to fix my answer. Since $S_n$ arises as a Galois group, it might be interesting to think about why $S_n$ doesn't induce a group structure on ${1,ldots,n}$ as I mention in my first paragraph.
$endgroup$
– jgon
Dec 23 '18 at 17:41
$begingroup$
@Leo no, a similar problem arises with trying to define inverses. I've now edited to fix my answer. Since $S_n$ arises as a Galois group, it might be interesting to think about why $S_n$ doesn't induce a group structure on ${1,ldots,n}$ as I mention in my first paragraph.
$endgroup$
– jgon
Dec 23 '18 at 17:41
1
1
$begingroup$
Because $g$ acts injectively on the whole field, so the cardinality of $gG(x)$ is the same as the cardinality of $G(x)$. Since $gG(x)subseteq G(x)$ and $G(x)$ is finite, this implies that they are equal.
$endgroup$
– jgon
Dec 23 '18 at 18:33
$begingroup$
Because $g$ acts injectively on the whole field, so the cardinality of $gG(x)$ is the same as the cardinality of $G(x)$. Since $gG(x)subseteq G(x)$ and $G(x)$ is finite, this implies that they are equal.
$endgroup$
– jgon
Dec 23 '18 at 18:33
|
show 3 more comments
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@DonAntonio. Please notice that $x_i cdot x_j$ does not mean $x_i$ multiplied by $x_j$. It is instead defined to mean $g_ig_j(x)$.
$endgroup$
– Leo
Dec 23 '18 at 17:19
$begingroup$
Ah, I completely oversaw that piece of info. Thanks.
$endgroup$
– DonAntonio
Dec 23 '18 at 18:09