Prove Addition is Continuous (without epsilon-delta!)
Let $+ : mathbb{R} times mathbb{R} rightarrow mathbb{R}$ be defined by $(x, y) mapsto x + y$, and let both $mathbb{R}$ and $mathbb{R} times mathbb{R}$ have the usual topologies. My question is, is there a way to prove that $+$ is continuous without resorting to a $varepsilon - delta$ argument? I know it can be done easily (but, perhaps, tediously) with one, but it feels like this is close enough to the heart of the structure of $mathbb{R}$ that there should be a more elegant way of doing it.
real-analysis general-topology
add a comment |
Let $+ : mathbb{R} times mathbb{R} rightarrow mathbb{R}$ be defined by $(x, y) mapsto x + y$, and let both $mathbb{R}$ and $mathbb{R} times mathbb{R}$ have the usual topologies. My question is, is there a way to prove that $+$ is continuous without resorting to a $varepsilon - delta$ argument? I know it can be done easily (but, perhaps, tediously) with one, but it feels like this is close enough to the heart of the structure of $mathbb{R}$ that there should be a more elegant way of doing it.
real-analysis general-topology
2
It's a polynomial in two variables.
– Error 404
Jul 4 '17 at 4:58
Can you show that polynomials are continuous without an $varepsilon - delta$ argument somewhere along the way?
– Duncan Ramage
Jul 4 '17 at 5:00
1
I mean, sooner or later there will be an $epsilon - delta$ down there. The question is how far down you are willing to go...
– Nick Guerrero
Jul 4 '17 at 5:05
1
Take a open set in $mathbb{R}^2$, say $A$, $S_A={x+y: (x,y)in A }$ is also open set.
– MAN-MADE
Jul 4 '17 at 5:11
Do you know that rays form a subbasis of the topology on R? It suffices to show that their preimages are open.
– Moishe Cohen
Jul 4 '17 at 5:44
add a comment |
Let $+ : mathbb{R} times mathbb{R} rightarrow mathbb{R}$ be defined by $(x, y) mapsto x + y$, and let both $mathbb{R}$ and $mathbb{R} times mathbb{R}$ have the usual topologies. My question is, is there a way to prove that $+$ is continuous without resorting to a $varepsilon - delta$ argument? I know it can be done easily (but, perhaps, tediously) with one, but it feels like this is close enough to the heart of the structure of $mathbb{R}$ that there should be a more elegant way of doing it.
real-analysis general-topology
Let $+ : mathbb{R} times mathbb{R} rightarrow mathbb{R}$ be defined by $(x, y) mapsto x + y$, and let both $mathbb{R}$ and $mathbb{R} times mathbb{R}$ have the usual topologies. My question is, is there a way to prove that $+$ is continuous without resorting to a $varepsilon - delta$ argument? I know it can be done easily (but, perhaps, tediously) with one, but it feels like this is close enough to the heart of the structure of $mathbb{R}$ that there should be a more elegant way of doing it.
real-analysis general-topology
real-analysis general-topology
asked Jul 4 '17 at 4:56
Duncan Ramage
3,9841026
3,9841026
2
It's a polynomial in two variables.
– Error 404
Jul 4 '17 at 4:58
Can you show that polynomials are continuous without an $varepsilon - delta$ argument somewhere along the way?
– Duncan Ramage
Jul 4 '17 at 5:00
1
I mean, sooner or later there will be an $epsilon - delta$ down there. The question is how far down you are willing to go...
– Nick Guerrero
Jul 4 '17 at 5:05
1
Take a open set in $mathbb{R}^2$, say $A$, $S_A={x+y: (x,y)in A }$ is also open set.
– MAN-MADE
Jul 4 '17 at 5:11
Do you know that rays form a subbasis of the topology on R? It suffices to show that their preimages are open.
– Moishe Cohen
Jul 4 '17 at 5:44
add a comment |
2
It's a polynomial in two variables.
– Error 404
Jul 4 '17 at 4:58
Can you show that polynomials are continuous without an $varepsilon - delta$ argument somewhere along the way?
– Duncan Ramage
Jul 4 '17 at 5:00
1
I mean, sooner or later there will be an $epsilon - delta$ down there. The question is how far down you are willing to go...
– Nick Guerrero
Jul 4 '17 at 5:05
1
Take a open set in $mathbb{R}^2$, say $A$, $S_A={x+y: (x,y)in A }$ is also open set.
– MAN-MADE
Jul 4 '17 at 5:11
Do you know that rays form a subbasis of the topology on R? It suffices to show that their preimages are open.
– Moishe Cohen
Jul 4 '17 at 5:44
2
2
It's a polynomial in two variables.
– Error 404
Jul 4 '17 at 4:58
It's a polynomial in two variables.
– Error 404
Jul 4 '17 at 4:58
Can you show that polynomials are continuous without an $varepsilon - delta$ argument somewhere along the way?
– Duncan Ramage
Jul 4 '17 at 5:00
Can you show that polynomials are continuous without an $varepsilon - delta$ argument somewhere along the way?
– Duncan Ramage
Jul 4 '17 at 5:00
1
1
I mean, sooner or later there will be an $epsilon - delta$ down there. The question is how far down you are willing to go...
– Nick Guerrero
Jul 4 '17 at 5:05
I mean, sooner or later there will be an $epsilon - delta$ down there. The question is how far down you are willing to go...
– Nick Guerrero
Jul 4 '17 at 5:05
1
1
Take a open set in $mathbb{R}^2$, say $A$, $S_A={x+y: (x,y)in A }$ is also open set.
– MAN-MADE
Jul 4 '17 at 5:11
Take a open set in $mathbb{R}^2$, say $A$, $S_A={x+y: (x,y)in A }$ is also open set.
– MAN-MADE
Jul 4 '17 at 5:11
Do you know that rays form a subbasis of the topology on R? It suffices to show that their preimages are open.
– Moishe Cohen
Jul 4 '17 at 5:44
Do you know that rays form a subbasis of the topology on R? It suffices to show that their preimages are open.
– Moishe Cohen
Jul 4 '17 at 5:44
add a comment |
5 Answers
5
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oldest
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I think if you want to avoid the $varepsilon - delta$ discussion then you should use the "preimage of open is open" definition of discontinuity. I just saw Mathmoore's answer so I guess my answer is really a rephrasing of his.
The topology on $mathbb{R}$ is generated by open intervals. Hence it suffices to show that the preimage under addition of an open interval $(a, b)$ is an open subset of $mathbb{R}^2$. The preimage is of course the set ${(x, y)inmathbb{R}^2: a < x + y < b}$. The solutions to the inequality $x + y < b$ is an open halfspace with base line given by the equation $x + y = b$. Similarly, the solutions to the inequality $a < x + y$ is an open subspace where the base line is given by the equation $x + y = a$ (paralel to the previous line!). Using that "finite intersections of open is open", or more simply that the intersection of the two open halfspaces is the open strip between the lines $x + y = a$ and $x + y = b$, we get that "$+$" is continuous (with respect to the standard topologies on $mathbb{R}$ and $mathbb{R}^2$.
add a comment |
How about using Sequential criteria?
Let $$(x_n,y_n) to (x,y)$$ Then $$x_n to x, y_n to y$$ Thus, $$x_n+y_n to x+y$$ Hence, addition is continuous.
1
How do you justify you last "thus"? If I would have to prove that, I would use continuity of addition...
– Jens Renders
Aug 9 '17 at 11:03
1
@JensRenders That just follows from triangle inequality.
– Sahiba Arora
Aug 9 '17 at 15:14
Yes, it is an epsilon delta proof using the triangle inequality, and what you prove is continuity. Or how else do you prove the convergence of that last sequence
– Jens Renders
Aug 9 '17 at 15:27
1
@JensRenders $|x_n+y_n-(x+y)|=|x_n-x+y_n-y|leq |x_n-x|+|y_n-y|$
– Sahiba Arora
Aug 9 '17 at 15:46
1
@JensRenders If my definition of continuity is using $epsilon-delta$ and I show that "pre-image of open is open" is an equivalent criteria and then using that show "addition is continuous" then I'm using $epsilon-delta$ to prove "pre-image of open is open" implies continuity. The question required me to show continuity of addition without using $epsilon-delta$. It didn't say that I can't use a result which was proved using $epsilon.$
– Sahiba Arora
Aug 9 '17 at 16:53
|
show 3 more comments
If $I$ and $J$ are open in $mathbb R$ then $Itimes J$ is open in $mathbb R^2.$ To prove continuity of $f(x,y)=x+y,$ it suffices to show that when $f(x,y)in K$, where $K$ is open in $mathbb R,$ there exist open real $I,J$ such that $(x,y)in Itimes J$ and $f(Itimes J)subset K.$
There exists $r>0$ such that $(-r+f(x,y),r+f(x,y))subset K.$ So let $I=(-r/2+x,r/2+x)$ and $J=(-r/2+y,r/2+y).$
We cannot avoid mentioning $r$. With a different topology on $mathbb R,$ addition may fail to be continuous.
In general, $f:Xto Y$ is continuous iff whenever $f(p)in V$ with $V$ open in $Y,$ there exists $U,$ open in $X$, with $pin U$ and $f(U)subset V.$ This could be called the topological generalization of the classical "$epsilon$-$delta$" definition of continuity.
1
An example to show why we can't avoid mentioning $r$: Let $tau$ be the usual topology on $mathbb R.$ Let $DO(tau)$ be the set of $tau$-dense members of $tau$. (The set of dense open sets.). Let $X$ be the set $mathbb R$ with the topology ${phi}cup DO(tau)$. Then $f(x,y)=x+y$ is continuous in each variable separately, but $f:X^2to X$ is not continuous.
– DanielWainfleet
Aug 9 '17 at 16:18
add a comment |
This is not a rigorous answer.
By topological definition of continuity, we want to show that for every open subset $U$ of $Bbb R$, the subset $+^{-1} (U)$ of $Bbb R times Bbb R$ is also open.
So let us begin with $U subset Bbb R$ which is open. Take $t in U$ arbitrarily.
Then $+^{-1}(t)={(y,t-y) : y in Bbb R}$. That is inverse image of a point in $Bbb R$ is a straight line in $Bbb R times Bbb R$ with slope $-1$ and passes through the points $(t,0)$ and $(0,t)$. (Basically these are lines of the form $x+y=t$ in $Bbb R^2$ and we are varying $t$ here.)
As $U$ is open, there exists an $r_t gt 0$ such that the open interval $(t-r_t,t+r_t)$ is a subset of $U$.
So $+^{-1} ((t-r_t,t+r_t))={(y,p-y) in Bbb R times Bbb R: y in Bbb R, t-r_tlt p lt t+r_t} subset +^{-1}(U)$. Visualize this as a union of set of straight lines of the form $x+y=p$ where $t-r_t lt p lt t+r_t$. Try to prove it is an open set in $Bbb R times Bbb R$ (Hint : Construct an open ball around every point of the set $+^{-1}((t-r_t,t+r_t))$ which is inside the set.)
Note that $bigcup_{t in U} +^{-1} ((t-r_t,t+r_t))=+^{-1}(U)$.
add a comment |
How about forgetting the definition of continuity and simply stating an elementary truth?
Let $x$ and $y$ be two numbers satisfying
$tag 1 p lt x lt p + c$
$tag 2 q lt y lt q + c$
with $c gt 0$.
Then
$tag 3 p + q lt x + y lt p + q + 2c$
add a comment |
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5 Answers
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5 Answers
5
active
oldest
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I think if you want to avoid the $varepsilon - delta$ discussion then you should use the "preimage of open is open" definition of discontinuity. I just saw Mathmoore's answer so I guess my answer is really a rephrasing of his.
The topology on $mathbb{R}$ is generated by open intervals. Hence it suffices to show that the preimage under addition of an open interval $(a, b)$ is an open subset of $mathbb{R}^2$. The preimage is of course the set ${(x, y)inmathbb{R}^2: a < x + y < b}$. The solutions to the inequality $x + y < b$ is an open halfspace with base line given by the equation $x + y = b$. Similarly, the solutions to the inequality $a < x + y$ is an open subspace where the base line is given by the equation $x + y = a$ (paralel to the previous line!). Using that "finite intersections of open is open", or more simply that the intersection of the two open halfspaces is the open strip between the lines $x + y = a$ and $x + y = b$, we get that "$+$" is continuous (with respect to the standard topologies on $mathbb{R}$ and $mathbb{R}^2$.
add a comment |
I think if you want to avoid the $varepsilon - delta$ discussion then you should use the "preimage of open is open" definition of discontinuity. I just saw Mathmoore's answer so I guess my answer is really a rephrasing of his.
The topology on $mathbb{R}$ is generated by open intervals. Hence it suffices to show that the preimage under addition of an open interval $(a, b)$ is an open subset of $mathbb{R}^2$. The preimage is of course the set ${(x, y)inmathbb{R}^2: a < x + y < b}$. The solutions to the inequality $x + y < b$ is an open halfspace with base line given by the equation $x + y = b$. Similarly, the solutions to the inequality $a < x + y$ is an open subspace where the base line is given by the equation $x + y = a$ (paralel to the previous line!). Using that "finite intersections of open is open", or more simply that the intersection of the two open halfspaces is the open strip between the lines $x + y = a$ and $x + y = b$, we get that "$+$" is continuous (with respect to the standard topologies on $mathbb{R}$ and $mathbb{R}^2$.
add a comment |
I think if you want to avoid the $varepsilon - delta$ discussion then you should use the "preimage of open is open" definition of discontinuity. I just saw Mathmoore's answer so I guess my answer is really a rephrasing of his.
The topology on $mathbb{R}$ is generated by open intervals. Hence it suffices to show that the preimage under addition of an open interval $(a, b)$ is an open subset of $mathbb{R}^2$. The preimage is of course the set ${(x, y)inmathbb{R}^2: a < x + y < b}$. The solutions to the inequality $x + y < b$ is an open halfspace with base line given by the equation $x + y = b$. Similarly, the solutions to the inequality $a < x + y$ is an open subspace where the base line is given by the equation $x + y = a$ (paralel to the previous line!). Using that "finite intersections of open is open", or more simply that the intersection of the two open halfspaces is the open strip between the lines $x + y = a$ and $x + y = b$, we get that "$+$" is continuous (with respect to the standard topologies on $mathbb{R}$ and $mathbb{R}^2$.
I think if you want to avoid the $varepsilon - delta$ discussion then you should use the "preimage of open is open" definition of discontinuity. I just saw Mathmoore's answer so I guess my answer is really a rephrasing of his.
The topology on $mathbb{R}$ is generated by open intervals. Hence it suffices to show that the preimage under addition of an open interval $(a, b)$ is an open subset of $mathbb{R}^2$. The preimage is of course the set ${(x, y)inmathbb{R}^2: a < x + y < b}$. The solutions to the inequality $x + y < b$ is an open halfspace with base line given by the equation $x + y = b$. Similarly, the solutions to the inequality $a < x + y$ is an open subspace where the base line is given by the equation $x + y = a$ (paralel to the previous line!). Using that "finite intersections of open is open", or more simply that the intersection of the two open halfspaces is the open strip between the lines $x + y = a$ and $x + y = b$, we get that "$+$" is continuous (with respect to the standard topologies on $mathbb{R}$ and $mathbb{R}^2$.
answered Jul 4 '17 at 7:35
user1566114
1674
1674
add a comment |
add a comment |
How about using Sequential criteria?
Let $$(x_n,y_n) to (x,y)$$ Then $$x_n to x, y_n to y$$ Thus, $$x_n+y_n to x+y$$ Hence, addition is continuous.
1
How do you justify you last "thus"? If I would have to prove that, I would use continuity of addition...
– Jens Renders
Aug 9 '17 at 11:03
1
@JensRenders That just follows from triangle inequality.
– Sahiba Arora
Aug 9 '17 at 15:14
Yes, it is an epsilon delta proof using the triangle inequality, and what you prove is continuity. Or how else do you prove the convergence of that last sequence
– Jens Renders
Aug 9 '17 at 15:27
1
@JensRenders $|x_n+y_n-(x+y)|=|x_n-x+y_n-y|leq |x_n-x|+|y_n-y|$
– Sahiba Arora
Aug 9 '17 at 15:46
1
@JensRenders If my definition of continuity is using $epsilon-delta$ and I show that "pre-image of open is open" is an equivalent criteria and then using that show "addition is continuous" then I'm using $epsilon-delta$ to prove "pre-image of open is open" implies continuity. The question required me to show continuity of addition without using $epsilon-delta$. It didn't say that I can't use a result which was proved using $epsilon.$
– Sahiba Arora
Aug 9 '17 at 16:53
|
show 3 more comments
How about using Sequential criteria?
Let $$(x_n,y_n) to (x,y)$$ Then $$x_n to x, y_n to y$$ Thus, $$x_n+y_n to x+y$$ Hence, addition is continuous.
1
How do you justify you last "thus"? If I would have to prove that, I would use continuity of addition...
– Jens Renders
Aug 9 '17 at 11:03
1
@JensRenders That just follows from triangle inequality.
– Sahiba Arora
Aug 9 '17 at 15:14
Yes, it is an epsilon delta proof using the triangle inequality, and what you prove is continuity. Or how else do you prove the convergence of that last sequence
– Jens Renders
Aug 9 '17 at 15:27
1
@JensRenders $|x_n+y_n-(x+y)|=|x_n-x+y_n-y|leq |x_n-x|+|y_n-y|$
– Sahiba Arora
Aug 9 '17 at 15:46
1
@JensRenders If my definition of continuity is using $epsilon-delta$ and I show that "pre-image of open is open" is an equivalent criteria and then using that show "addition is continuous" then I'm using $epsilon-delta$ to prove "pre-image of open is open" implies continuity. The question required me to show continuity of addition without using $epsilon-delta$. It didn't say that I can't use a result which was proved using $epsilon.$
– Sahiba Arora
Aug 9 '17 at 16:53
|
show 3 more comments
How about using Sequential criteria?
Let $$(x_n,y_n) to (x,y)$$ Then $$x_n to x, y_n to y$$ Thus, $$x_n+y_n to x+y$$ Hence, addition is continuous.
How about using Sequential criteria?
Let $$(x_n,y_n) to (x,y)$$ Then $$x_n to x, y_n to y$$ Thus, $$x_n+y_n to x+y$$ Hence, addition is continuous.
edited Aug 9 '17 at 15:13
answered Jul 4 '17 at 6:52
Sahiba Arora
5,76031537
5,76031537
1
How do you justify you last "thus"? If I would have to prove that, I would use continuity of addition...
– Jens Renders
Aug 9 '17 at 11:03
1
@JensRenders That just follows from triangle inequality.
– Sahiba Arora
Aug 9 '17 at 15:14
Yes, it is an epsilon delta proof using the triangle inequality, and what you prove is continuity. Or how else do you prove the convergence of that last sequence
– Jens Renders
Aug 9 '17 at 15:27
1
@JensRenders $|x_n+y_n-(x+y)|=|x_n-x+y_n-y|leq |x_n-x|+|y_n-y|$
– Sahiba Arora
Aug 9 '17 at 15:46
1
@JensRenders If my definition of continuity is using $epsilon-delta$ and I show that "pre-image of open is open" is an equivalent criteria and then using that show "addition is continuous" then I'm using $epsilon-delta$ to prove "pre-image of open is open" implies continuity. The question required me to show continuity of addition without using $epsilon-delta$. It didn't say that I can't use a result which was proved using $epsilon.$
– Sahiba Arora
Aug 9 '17 at 16:53
|
show 3 more comments
1
How do you justify you last "thus"? If I would have to prove that, I would use continuity of addition...
– Jens Renders
Aug 9 '17 at 11:03
1
@JensRenders That just follows from triangle inequality.
– Sahiba Arora
Aug 9 '17 at 15:14
Yes, it is an epsilon delta proof using the triangle inequality, and what you prove is continuity. Or how else do you prove the convergence of that last sequence
– Jens Renders
Aug 9 '17 at 15:27
1
@JensRenders $|x_n+y_n-(x+y)|=|x_n-x+y_n-y|leq |x_n-x|+|y_n-y|$
– Sahiba Arora
Aug 9 '17 at 15:46
1
@JensRenders If my definition of continuity is using $epsilon-delta$ and I show that "pre-image of open is open" is an equivalent criteria and then using that show "addition is continuous" then I'm using $epsilon-delta$ to prove "pre-image of open is open" implies continuity. The question required me to show continuity of addition without using $epsilon-delta$. It didn't say that I can't use a result which was proved using $epsilon.$
– Sahiba Arora
Aug 9 '17 at 16:53
1
1
How do you justify you last "thus"? If I would have to prove that, I would use continuity of addition...
– Jens Renders
Aug 9 '17 at 11:03
How do you justify you last "thus"? If I would have to prove that, I would use continuity of addition...
– Jens Renders
Aug 9 '17 at 11:03
1
1
@JensRenders That just follows from triangle inequality.
– Sahiba Arora
Aug 9 '17 at 15:14
@JensRenders That just follows from triangle inequality.
– Sahiba Arora
Aug 9 '17 at 15:14
Yes, it is an epsilon delta proof using the triangle inequality, and what you prove is continuity. Or how else do you prove the convergence of that last sequence
– Jens Renders
Aug 9 '17 at 15:27
Yes, it is an epsilon delta proof using the triangle inequality, and what you prove is continuity. Or how else do you prove the convergence of that last sequence
– Jens Renders
Aug 9 '17 at 15:27
1
1
@JensRenders $|x_n+y_n-(x+y)|=|x_n-x+y_n-y|leq |x_n-x|+|y_n-y|$
– Sahiba Arora
Aug 9 '17 at 15:46
@JensRenders $|x_n+y_n-(x+y)|=|x_n-x+y_n-y|leq |x_n-x|+|y_n-y|$
– Sahiba Arora
Aug 9 '17 at 15:46
1
1
@JensRenders If my definition of continuity is using $epsilon-delta$ and I show that "pre-image of open is open" is an equivalent criteria and then using that show "addition is continuous" then I'm using $epsilon-delta$ to prove "pre-image of open is open" implies continuity. The question required me to show continuity of addition without using $epsilon-delta$. It didn't say that I can't use a result which was proved using $epsilon.$
– Sahiba Arora
Aug 9 '17 at 16:53
@JensRenders If my definition of continuity is using $epsilon-delta$ and I show that "pre-image of open is open" is an equivalent criteria and then using that show "addition is continuous" then I'm using $epsilon-delta$ to prove "pre-image of open is open" implies continuity. The question required me to show continuity of addition without using $epsilon-delta$. It didn't say that I can't use a result which was proved using $epsilon.$
– Sahiba Arora
Aug 9 '17 at 16:53
|
show 3 more comments
If $I$ and $J$ are open in $mathbb R$ then $Itimes J$ is open in $mathbb R^2.$ To prove continuity of $f(x,y)=x+y,$ it suffices to show that when $f(x,y)in K$, where $K$ is open in $mathbb R,$ there exist open real $I,J$ such that $(x,y)in Itimes J$ and $f(Itimes J)subset K.$
There exists $r>0$ such that $(-r+f(x,y),r+f(x,y))subset K.$ So let $I=(-r/2+x,r/2+x)$ and $J=(-r/2+y,r/2+y).$
We cannot avoid mentioning $r$. With a different topology on $mathbb R,$ addition may fail to be continuous.
In general, $f:Xto Y$ is continuous iff whenever $f(p)in V$ with $V$ open in $Y,$ there exists $U,$ open in $X$, with $pin U$ and $f(U)subset V.$ This could be called the topological generalization of the classical "$epsilon$-$delta$" definition of continuity.
1
An example to show why we can't avoid mentioning $r$: Let $tau$ be the usual topology on $mathbb R.$ Let $DO(tau)$ be the set of $tau$-dense members of $tau$. (The set of dense open sets.). Let $X$ be the set $mathbb R$ with the topology ${phi}cup DO(tau)$. Then $f(x,y)=x+y$ is continuous in each variable separately, but $f:X^2to X$ is not continuous.
– DanielWainfleet
Aug 9 '17 at 16:18
add a comment |
If $I$ and $J$ are open in $mathbb R$ then $Itimes J$ is open in $mathbb R^2.$ To prove continuity of $f(x,y)=x+y,$ it suffices to show that when $f(x,y)in K$, where $K$ is open in $mathbb R,$ there exist open real $I,J$ such that $(x,y)in Itimes J$ and $f(Itimes J)subset K.$
There exists $r>0$ such that $(-r+f(x,y),r+f(x,y))subset K.$ So let $I=(-r/2+x,r/2+x)$ and $J=(-r/2+y,r/2+y).$
We cannot avoid mentioning $r$. With a different topology on $mathbb R,$ addition may fail to be continuous.
In general, $f:Xto Y$ is continuous iff whenever $f(p)in V$ with $V$ open in $Y,$ there exists $U,$ open in $X$, with $pin U$ and $f(U)subset V.$ This could be called the topological generalization of the classical "$epsilon$-$delta$" definition of continuity.
1
An example to show why we can't avoid mentioning $r$: Let $tau$ be the usual topology on $mathbb R.$ Let $DO(tau)$ be the set of $tau$-dense members of $tau$. (The set of dense open sets.). Let $X$ be the set $mathbb R$ with the topology ${phi}cup DO(tau)$. Then $f(x,y)=x+y$ is continuous in each variable separately, but $f:X^2to X$ is not continuous.
– DanielWainfleet
Aug 9 '17 at 16:18
add a comment |
If $I$ and $J$ are open in $mathbb R$ then $Itimes J$ is open in $mathbb R^2.$ To prove continuity of $f(x,y)=x+y,$ it suffices to show that when $f(x,y)in K$, where $K$ is open in $mathbb R,$ there exist open real $I,J$ such that $(x,y)in Itimes J$ and $f(Itimes J)subset K.$
There exists $r>0$ such that $(-r+f(x,y),r+f(x,y))subset K.$ So let $I=(-r/2+x,r/2+x)$ and $J=(-r/2+y,r/2+y).$
We cannot avoid mentioning $r$. With a different topology on $mathbb R,$ addition may fail to be continuous.
In general, $f:Xto Y$ is continuous iff whenever $f(p)in V$ with $V$ open in $Y,$ there exists $U,$ open in $X$, with $pin U$ and $f(U)subset V.$ This could be called the topological generalization of the classical "$epsilon$-$delta$" definition of continuity.
If $I$ and $J$ are open in $mathbb R$ then $Itimes J$ is open in $mathbb R^2.$ To prove continuity of $f(x,y)=x+y,$ it suffices to show that when $f(x,y)in K$, where $K$ is open in $mathbb R,$ there exist open real $I,J$ such that $(x,y)in Itimes J$ and $f(Itimes J)subset K.$
There exists $r>0$ such that $(-r+f(x,y),r+f(x,y))subset K.$ So let $I=(-r/2+x,r/2+x)$ and $J=(-r/2+y,r/2+y).$
We cannot avoid mentioning $r$. With a different topology on $mathbb R,$ addition may fail to be continuous.
In general, $f:Xto Y$ is continuous iff whenever $f(p)in V$ with $V$ open in $Y,$ there exists $U,$ open in $X$, with $pin U$ and $f(U)subset V.$ This could be called the topological generalization of the classical "$epsilon$-$delta$" definition of continuity.
answered Aug 9 '17 at 16:09
DanielWainfleet
34.3k31647
34.3k31647
1
An example to show why we can't avoid mentioning $r$: Let $tau$ be the usual topology on $mathbb R.$ Let $DO(tau)$ be the set of $tau$-dense members of $tau$. (The set of dense open sets.). Let $X$ be the set $mathbb R$ with the topology ${phi}cup DO(tau)$. Then $f(x,y)=x+y$ is continuous in each variable separately, but $f:X^2to X$ is not continuous.
– DanielWainfleet
Aug 9 '17 at 16:18
add a comment |
1
An example to show why we can't avoid mentioning $r$: Let $tau$ be the usual topology on $mathbb R.$ Let $DO(tau)$ be the set of $tau$-dense members of $tau$. (The set of dense open sets.). Let $X$ be the set $mathbb R$ with the topology ${phi}cup DO(tau)$. Then $f(x,y)=x+y$ is continuous in each variable separately, but $f:X^2to X$ is not continuous.
– DanielWainfleet
Aug 9 '17 at 16:18
1
1
An example to show why we can't avoid mentioning $r$: Let $tau$ be the usual topology on $mathbb R.$ Let $DO(tau)$ be the set of $tau$-dense members of $tau$. (The set of dense open sets.). Let $X$ be the set $mathbb R$ with the topology ${phi}cup DO(tau)$. Then $f(x,y)=x+y$ is continuous in each variable separately, but $f:X^2to X$ is not continuous.
– DanielWainfleet
Aug 9 '17 at 16:18
An example to show why we can't avoid mentioning $r$: Let $tau$ be the usual topology on $mathbb R.$ Let $DO(tau)$ be the set of $tau$-dense members of $tau$. (The set of dense open sets.). Let $X$ be the set $mathbb R$ with the topology ${phi}cup DO(tau)$. Then $f(x,y)=x+y$ is continuous in each variable separately, but $f:X^2to X$ is not continuous.
– DanielWainfleet
Aug 9 '17 at 16:18
add a comment |
This is not a rigorous answer.
By topological definition of continuity, we want to show that for every open subset $U$ of $Bbb R$, the subset $+^{-1} (U)$ of $Bbb R times Bbb R$ is also open.
So let us begin with $U subset Bbb R$ which is open. Take $t in U$ arbitrarily.
Then $+^{-1}(t)={(y,t-y) : y in Bbb R}$. That is inverse image of a point in $Bbb R$ is a straight line in $Bbb R times Bbb R$ with slope $-1$ and passes through the points $(t,0)$ and $(0,t)$. (Basically these are lines of the form $x+y=t$ in $Bbb R^2$ and we are varying $t$ here.)
As $U$ is open, there exists an $r_t gt 0$ such that the open interval $(t-r_t,t+r_t)$ is a subset of $U$.
So $+^{-1} ((t-r_t,t+r_t))={(y,p-y) in Bbb R times Bbb R: y in Bbb R, t-r_tlt p lt t+r_t} subset +^{-1}(U)$. Visualize this as a union of set of straight lines of the form $x+y=p$ where $t-r_t lt p lt t+r_t$. Try to prove it is an open set in $Bbb R times Bbb R$ (Hint : Construct an open ball around every point of the set $+^{-1}((t-r_t,t+r_t))$ which is inside the set.)
Note that $bigcup_{t in U} +^{-1} ((t-r_t,t+r_t))=+^{-1}(U)$.
add a comment |
This is not a rigorous answer.
By topological definition of continuity, we want to show that for every open subset $U$ of $Bbb R$, the subset $+^{-1} (U)$ of $Bbb R times Bbb R$ is also open.
So let us begin with $U subset Bbb R$ which is open. Take $t in U$ arbitrarily.
Then $+^{-1}(t)={(y,t-y) : y in Bbb R}$. That is inverse image of a point in $Bbb R$ is a straight line in $Bbb R times Bbb R$ with slope $-1$ and passes through the points $(t,0)$ and $(0,t)$. (Basically these are lines of the form $x+y=t$ in $Bbb R^2$ and we are varying $t$ here.)
As $U$ is open, there exists an $r_t gt 0$ such that the open interval $(t-r_t,t+r_t)$ is a subset of $U$.
So $+^{-1} ((t-r_t,t+r_t))={(y,p-y) in Bbb R times Bbb R: y in Bbb R, t-r_tlt p lt t+r_t} subset +^{-1}(U)$. Visualize this as a union of set of straight lines of the form $x+y=p$ where $t-r_t lt p lt t+r_t$. Try to prove it is an open set in $Bbb R times Bbb R$ (Hint : Construct an open ball around every point of the set $+^{-1}((t-r_t,t+r_t))$ which is inside the set.)
Note that $bigcup_{t in U} +^{-1} ((t-r_t,t+r_t))=+^{-1}(U)$.
add a comment |
This is not a rigorous answer.
By topological definition of continuity, we want to show that for every open subset $U$ of $Bbb R$, the subset $+^{-1} (U)$ of $Bbb R times Bbb R$ is also open.
So let us begin with $U subset Bbb R$ which is open. Take $t in U$ arbitrarily.
Then $+^{-1}(t)={(y,t-y) : y in Bbb R}$. That is inverse image of a point in $Bbb R$ is a straight line in $Bbb R times Bbb R$ with slope $-1$ and passes through the points $(t,0)$ and $(0,t)$. (Basically these are lines of the form $x+y=t$ in $Bbb R^2$ and we are varying $t$ here.)
As $U$ is open, there exists an $r_t gt 0$ such that the open interval $(t-r_t,t+r_t)$ is a subset of $U$.
So $+^{-1} ((t-r_t,t+r_t))={(y,p-y) in Bbb R times Bbb R: y in Bbb R, t-r_tlt p lt t+r_t} subset +^{-1}(U)$. Visualize this as a union of set of straight lines of the form $x+y=p$ where $t-r_t lt p lt t+r_t$. Try to prove it is an open set in $Bbb R times Bbb R$ (Hint : Construct an open ball around every point of the set $+^{-1}((t-r_t,t+r_t))$ which is inside the set.)
Note that $bigcup_{t in U} +^{-1} ((t-r_t,t+r_t))=+^{-1}(U)$.
This is not a rigorous answer.
By topological definition of continuity, we want to show that for every open subset $U$ of $Bbb R$, the subset $+^{-1} (U)$ of $Bbb R times Bbb R$ is also open.
So let us begin with $U subset Bbb R$ which is open. Take $t in U$ arbitrarily.
Then $+^{-1}(t)={(y,t-y) : y in Bbb R}$. That is inverse image of a point in $Bbb R$ is a straight line in $Bbb R times Bbb R$ with slope $-1$ and passes through the points $(t,0)$ and $(0,t)$. (Basically these are lines of the form $x+y=t$ in $Bbb R^2$ and we are varying $t$ here.)
As $U$ is open, there exists an $r_t gt 0$ such that the open interval $(t-r_t,t+r_t)$ is a subset of $U$.
So $+^{-1} ((t-r_t,t+r_t))={(y,p-y) in Bbb R times Bbb R: y in Bbb R, t-r_tlt p lt t+r_t} subset +^{-1}(U)$. Visualize this as a union of set of straight lines of the form $x+y=p$ where $t-r_t lt p lt t+r_t$. Try to prove it is an open set in $Bbb R times Bbb R$ (Hint : Construct an open ball around every point of the set $+^{-1}((t-r_t,t+r_t))$ which is inside the set.)
Note that $bigcup_{t in U} +^{-1} ((t-r_t,t+r_t))=+^{-1}(U)$.
edited Jul 4 '17 at 6:09
answered Jul 4 '17 at 5:59
Error 404
3,84321235
3,84321235
add a comment |
add a comment |
How about forgetting the definition of continuity and simply stating an elementary truth?
Let $x$ and $y$ be two numbers satisfying
$tag 1 p lt x lt p + c$
$tag 2 q lt y lt q + c$
with $c gt 0$.
Then
$tag 3 p + q lt x + y lt p + q + 2c$
add a comment |
How about forgetting the definition of continuity and simply stating an elementary truth?
Let $x$ and $y$ be two numbers satisfying
$tag 1 p lt x lt p + c$
$tag 2 q lt y lt q + c$
with $c gt 0$.
Then
$tag 3 p + q lt x + y lt p + q + 2c$
add a comment |
How about forgetting the definition of continuity and simply stating an elementary truth?
Let $x$ and $y$ be two numbers satisfying
$tag 1 p lt x lt p + c$
$tag 2 q lt y lt q + c$
with $c gt 0$.
Then
$tag 3 p + q lt x + y lt p + q + 2c$
How about forgetting the definition of continuity and simply stating an elementary truth?
Let $x$ and $y$ be two numbers satisfying
$tag 1 p lt x lt p + c$
$tag 2 q lt y lt q + c$
with $c gt 0$.
Then
$tag 3 p + q lt x + y lt p + q + 2c$
answered Nov 29 '18 at 10:49
CopyPasteIt
4,0501627
4,0501627
add a comment |
add a comment |
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It's a polynomial in two variables.
– Error 404
Jul 4 '17 at 4:58
Can you show that polynomials are continuous without an $varepsilon - delta$ argument somewhere along the way?
– Duncan Ramage
Jul 4 '17 at 5:00
1
I mean, sooner or later there will be an $epsilon - delta$ down there. The question is how far down you are willing to go...
– Nick Guerrero
Jul 4 '17 at 5:05
1
Take a open set in $mathbb{R}^2$, say $A$, $S_A={x+y: (x,y)in A }$ is also open set.
– MAN-MADE
Jul 4 '17 at 5:11
Do you know that rays form a subbasis of the topology on R? It suffices to show that their preimages are open.
– Moishe Cohen
Jul 4 '17 at 5:44