bilinear form only positive or negative











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Let $f$ be a definite, symmetric bilinear form.



Show that $f$ is positive or negative.





Consider the quadratic form $q(x,y,z)=x^2+y^2-z^2$, then the polar form assocaited to $q$ is symmetric, definite but negative and positive.
Is there a problem with the statement of the problem ?



EDIT:
I attempt to prove this result:



Let $x,tilde y$ such that $q(x)>0$ and $q(tilde y)<0$ where $q$ is the quadratic form associated to $f$.



Let $lambda$ such that $y=lambda tilde y$ is such that $f(x,y-x)=0$.
Note that $q(y)<0$.



We have for $tin mathbb{R}$,
$$
q(x+t(y-x))=q(x)+t^2q(y-x)
$$

and we obtain:
$q(y-x)<-q(x)<0$



By continuity of $f$, there exists $tin (0,1)$ such that $q(x+t(y-x))=0$.
(This $t$ could be such that $x+t(y-x)=0$).



But, when $tto infty$, $q(x+t(y-x))to -infty$, so it means that $q$ has to for two different value of $t$ which is absurd.



Finally $q$ is of constant sign.



Any toughts about this proof?



DO you have simpler alternative proof for this statement ?










share|cite|improve this question
























  • Why would your $f$ be definite?
    – user10354138
    Nov 12 at 22:58










  • I mean your assertion "the polar form associated to $q$ is [...] definite"
    – user10354138
    Nov 12 at 23:00






  • 1




    I don't understand. The form $x^2 + y^2 - z^2$ is called "indefinite"
    – Will Jagy
    Nov 12 at 23:00










  • ok yeah the quadratic form is not definite
    – Smilia
    Nov 12 at 23:12















up vote
0
down vote

favorite












Let $f$ be a definite, symmetric bilinear form.



Show that $f$ is positive or negative.





Consider the quadratic form $q(x,y,z)=x^2+y^2-z^2$, then the polar form assocaited to $q$ is symmetric, definite but negative and positive.
Is there a problem with the statement of the problem ?



EDIT:
I attempt to prove this result:



Let $x,tilde y$ such that $q(x)>0$ and $q(tilde y)<0$ where $q$ is the quadratic form associated to $f$.



Let $lambda$ such that $y=lambda tilde y$ is such that $f(x,y-x)=0$.
Note that $q(y)<0$.



We have for $tin mathbb{R}$,
$$
q(x+t(y-x))=q(x)+t^2q(y-x)
$$

and we obtain:
$q(y-x)<-q(x)<0$



By continuity of $f$, there exists $tin (0,1)$ such that $q(x+t(y-x))=0$.
(This $t$ could be such that $x+t(y-x)=0$).



But, when $tto infty$, $q(x+t(y-x))to -infty$, so it means that $q$ has to for two different value of $t$ which is absurd.



Finally $q$ is of constant sign.



Any toughts about this proof?



DO you have simpler alternative proof for this statement ?










share|cite|improve this question
























  • Why would your $f$ be definite?
    – user10354138
    Nov 12 at 22:58










  • I mean your assertion "the polar form associated to $q$ is [...] definite"
    – user10354138
    Nov 12 at 23:00






  • 1




    I don't understand. The form $x^2 + y^2 - z^2$ is called "indefinite"
    – Will Jagy
    Nov 12 at 23:00










  • ok yeah the quadratic form is not definite
    – Smilia
    Nov 12 at 23:12













up vote
0
down vote

favorite









up vote
0
down vote

favorite











Let $f$ be a definite, symmetric bilinear form.



Show that $f$ is positive or negative.





Consider the quadratic form $q(x,y,z)=x^2+y^2-z^2$, then the polar form assocaited to $q$ is symmetric, definite but negative and positive.
Is there a problem with the statement of the problem ?



EDIT:
I attempt to prove this result:



Let $x,tilde y$ such that $q(x)>0$ and $q(tilde y)<0$ where $q$ is the quadratic form associated to $f$.



Let $lambda$ such that $y=lambda tilde y$ is such that $f(x,y-x)=0$.
Note that $q(y)<0$.



We have for $tin mathbb{R}$,
$$
q(x+t(y-x))=q(x)+t^2q(y-x)
$$

and we obtain:
$q(y-x)<-q(x)<0$



By continuity of $f$, there exists $tin (0,1)$ such that $q(x+t(y-x))=0$.
(This $t$ could be such that $x+t(y-x)=0$).



But, when $tto infty$, $q(x+t(y-x))to -infty$, so it means that $q$ has to for two different value of $t$ which is absurd.



Finally $q$ is of constant sign.



Any toughts about this proof?



DO you have simpler alternative proof for this statement ?










share|cite|improve this question















Let $f$ be a definite, symmetric bilinear form.



Show that $f$ is positive or negative.





Consider the quadratic form $q(x,y,z)=x^2+y^2-z^2$, then the polar form assocaited to $q$ is symmetric, definite but negative and positive.
Is there a problem with the statement of the problem ?



EDIT:
I attempt to prove this result:



Let $x,tilde y$ such that $q(x)>0$ and $q(tilde y)<0$ where $q$ is the quadratic form associated to $f$.



Let $lambda$ such that $y=lambda tilde y$ is such that $f(x,y-x)=0$.
Note that $q(y)<0$.



We have for $tin mathbb{R}$,
$$
q(x+t(y-x))=q(x)+t^2q(y-x)
$$

and we obtain:
$q(y-x)<-q(x)<0$



By continuity of $f$, there exists $tin (0,1)$ such that $q(x+t(y-x))=0$.
(This $t$ could be such that $x+t(y-x)=0$).



But, when $tto infty$, $q(x+t(y-x))to -infty$, so it means that $q$ has to for two different value of $t$ which is absurd.



Finally $q$ is of constant sign.



Any toughts about this proof?



DO you have simpler alternative proof for this statement ?







proof-verification quadratic-forms bilinear-form positive-definite






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share|cite|improve this question













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edited Nov 27 at 11:56

























asked Nov 12 at 22:54









Smilia

585516




585516












  • Why would your $f$ be definite?
    – user10354138
    Nov 12 at 22:58










  • I mean your assertion "the polar form associated to $q$ is [...] definite"
    – user10354138
    Nov 12 at 23:00






  • 1




    I don't understand. The form $x^2 + y^2 - z^2$ is called "indefinite"
    – Will Jagy
    Nov 12 at 23:00










  • ok yeah the quadratic form is not definite
    – Smilia
    Nov 12 at 23:12


















  • Why would your $f$ be definite?
    – user10354138
    Nov 12 at 22:58










  • I mean your assertion "the polar form associated to $q$ is [...] definite"
    – user10354138
    Nov 12 at 23:00






  • 1




    I don't understand. The form $x^2 + y^2 - z^2$ is called "indefinite"
    – Will Jagy
    Nov 12 at 23:00










  • ok yeah the quadratic form is not definite
    – Smilia
    Nov 12 at 23:12
















Why would your $f$ be definite?
– user10354138
Nov 12 at 22:58




Why would your $f$ be definite?
– user10354138
Nov 12 at 22:58












I mean your assertion "the polar form associated to $q$ is [...] definite"
– user10354138
Nov 12 at 23:00




I mean your assertion "the polar form associated to $q$ is [...] definite"
– user10354138
Nov 12 at 23:00




1




1




I don't understand. The form $x^2 + y^2 - z^2$ is called "indefinite"
– Will Jagy
Nov 12 at 23:00




I don't understand. The form $x^2 + y^2 - z^2$ is called "indefinite"
– Will Jagy
Nov 12 at 23:00












ok yeah the quadratic form is not definite
– Smilia
Nov 12 at 23:12




ok yeah the quadratic form is not definite
– Smilia
Nov 12 at 23:12










1 Answer
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I found what seems to be the definition at Associated Bilinear Form to Q (Quadratic Form)



The short version: given a quadratic form, create the matrix $H$ which is the Hessian matrix of second partial derivatives.



Given column vectors $x,y:$ the original quadratic form applied to $x$ is given by
$$ (1/2) x^T H x $$
The bilinear form applied to $x,y$ is
$$ (1/2) x^T H y = (1/2) y^T H x $$






share|cite|improve this answer





















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    up vote
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    down vote













    I found what seems to be the definition at Associated Bilinear Form to Q (Quadratic Form)



    The short version: given a quadratic form, create the matrix $H$ which is the Hessian matrix of second partial derivatives.



    Given column vectors $x,y:$ the original quadratic form applied to $x$ is given by
    $$ (1/2) x^T H x $$
    The bilinear form applied to $x,y$ is
    $$ (1/2) x^T H y = (1/2) y^T H x $$






    share|cite|improve this answer

























      up vote
      0
      down vote













      I found what seems to be the definition at Associated Bilinear Form to Q (Quadratic Form)



      The short version: given a quadratic form, create the matrix $H$ which is the Hessian matrix of second partial derivatives.



      Given column vectors $x,y:$ the original quadratic form applied to $x$ is given by
      $$ (1/2) x^T H x $$
      The bilinear form applied to $x,y$ is
      $$ (1/2) x^T H y = (1/2) y^T H x $$






      share|cite|improve this answer























        up vote
        0
        down vote










        up vote
        0
        down vote









        I found what seems to be the definition at Associated Bilinear Form to Q (Quadratic Form)



        The short version: given a quadratic form, create the matrix $H$ which is the Hessian matrix of second partial derivatives.



        Given column vectors $x,y:$ the original quadratic form applied to $x$ is given by
        $$ (1/2) x^T H x $$
        The bilinear form applied to $x,y$ is
        $$ (1/2) x^T H y = (1/2) y^T H x $$






        share|cite|improve this answer












        I found what seems to be the definition at Associated Bilinear Form to Q (Quadratic Form)



        The short version: given a quadratic form, create the matrix $H$ which is the Hessian matrix of second partial derivatives.



        Given column vectors $x,y:$ the original quadratic form applied to $x$ is given by
        $$ (1/2) x^T H x $$
        The bilinear form applied to $x,y$ is
        $$ (1/2) x^T H y = (1/2) y^T H x $$







        share|cite|improve this answer












        share|cite|improve this answer



        share|cite|improve this answer










        answered Nov 12 at 23:11









        Will Jagy

        101k598198




        101k598198






























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