Reasoning for redundant “natural” (but not courtesy accidental)
I understand why you'd add courtesy accidentals, but I was browsing through some old sheet music lying around here and came across this, and can't seem to come up with a reason for this natural in bar 2:
What am i missing here? The signature's G and only the F's should be raised, so why naturalise the G's? I don't have any training, so maybe this is simply something I've missed in my self-study.
(It's from "Alec Eiffel" by Pixies BTW)
==edit==
notation key-signatures accidentals
asked Jan 25 at 11:38
CreyndersCreynders
6591313
|
show 3 more comments
I understand why you'd add courtesy accidentals, but I was browsing through some old sheet music lying around here and came across this, and can't seem to come up with a reason for this natural in bar 2:
What am i missing here? The signature's G and only the F's should be raised, so why naturalise the G's? I don't have any training, so maybe this is simply something I've missed in my self-study.
(It's from "Alec Eiffel" by Pixies BTW)
==edit==
notation key-signatures accidentals
asked Jan 25 at 11:38
CreyndersCreynders
6591313
1
could you please poste a few more bars and the staff of F clef too? I assume there could be a G# in the left hand if this is somewhat of a blues style ...
– Albrecht Hügli
Jan 25 at 11:52
1
Hehe, it doesn't really provide any more info, except that the chord's E there. But I uploaded a picture, so you can see for yourself.
– Creynders
Jan 25 at 11:59
1
And the bass cleff is not provided separately btw. This is literally it
– Creynders
Jan 25 at 12:02
1
I would call this a courtesy accidental. The difference between "redundant" and "courtesy" is nil IMHO. Not really worth worrying about.
– Carl Witthoft
Jan 25 at 15:20
1
@CarlWitthoft - with you all the way. Basically can't see the point in that natural (or other superfluous accidentals) anyway. There's always enough stuff to read without overcrowding, I'm sure you'll agree!
– Tim
Jan 26 at 14:13
|
show 3 more comments
I understand why you'd add courtesy accidentals, but I was browsing through some old sheet music lying around here and came across this, and can't seem to come up with a reason for this natural in bar 2:
What am i missing here? The signature's G and only the F's should be raised, so why naturalise the G's? I don't have any training, so maybe this is simply something I've missed in my self-study.
(It's from "Alec Eiffel" by Pixies BTW)
==edit==
notation key-signatures accidentals
asked Jan 25 at 11:38
CreyndersCreynders
6591313
I understand why you'd add courtesy accidentals, but I was browsing through some old sheet music lying around here and came across this, and can't seem to come up with a reason for this natural in bar 2:
What am i missing here? The signature's G and only the F's should be raised, so why naturalise the G's? I don't have any training, so maybe this is simply something I've missed in my self-study.
(It's from "Alec Eiffel" by Pixies BTW)
==edit==
notation key-signatures accidentals
notation key-signatures accidentals
asked Jan 25 at 11:38
CreyndersCreynders
6591313
asked Jan 25 at 11:38
CreyndersCreynders
6591313
edited Jan 25 at 11:58
Creynders
asked Jan 25 at 11:38
CreyndersCreynders
6591313
asked Jan 25 at 11:38
CreyndersCreynders
6591313
asked Jan 25 at 11:38
CreyndersCreynders
6591313
6591313
1
could you please poste a few more bars and the staff of F clef too? I assume there could be a G# in the left hand if this is somewhat of a blues style ...
– Albrecht Hügli
Jan 25 at 11:52
1
Hehe, it doesn't really provide any more info, except that the chord's E there. But I uploaded a picture, so you can see for yourself.
– Creynders
Jan 25 at 11:59
1
And the bass cleff is not provided separately btw. This is literally it
– Creynders
Jan 25 at 12:02
1
I would call this a courtesy accidental. The difference between "redundant" and "courtesy" is nil IMHO. Not really worth worrying about.
– Carl Witthoft
Jan 25 at 15:20
1
@CarlWitthoft - with you all the way. Basically can't see the point in that natural (or other superfluous accidentals) anyway. There's always enough stuff to read without overcrowding, I'm sure you'll agree!
– Tim
Jan 26 at 14:13
|
show 3 more comments
1
could you please poste a few more bars and the staff of F clef too? I assume there could be a G# in the left hand if this is somewhat of a blues style ...
– Albrecht Hügli
Jan 25 at 11:52
1
Hehe, it doesn't really provide any more info, except that the chord's E there. But I uploaded a picture, so you can see for yourself.
– Creynders
Jan 25 at 11:59
1
And the bass cleff is not provided separately btw. This is literally it
– Creynders
Jan 25 at 12:02
1
I would call this a courtesy accidental. The difference between "redundant" and "courtesy" is nil IMHO. Not really worth worrying about.
– Carl Witthoft
Jan 25 at 15:20
1
@CarlWitthoft - with you all the way. Basically can't see the point in that natural (or other superfluous accidentals) anyway. There's always enough stuff to read without overcrowding, I'm sure you'll agree!
– Tim
Jan 26 at 14:13
1
1
could you please poste a few more bars and the staff of F clef too? I assume there could be a G# in the left hand if this is somewhat of a blues style ...
– Albrecht Hügli
Jan 25 at 11:52
could you please poste a few more bars and the staff of F clef too? I assume there could be a G# in the left hand if this is somewhat of a blues style ...
– Albrecht Hügli
Jan 25 at 11:52
1
1
Hehe, it doesn't really provide any more info, except that the chord's E there. But I uploaded a picture, so you can see for yourself.
– Creynders
Jan 25 at 11:59
Hehe, it doesn't really provide any more info, except that the chord's E there. But I uploaded a picture, so you can see for yourself.
– Creynders
Jan 25 at 11:59
1
1
And the bass cleff is not provided separately btw. This is literally it
– Creynders
Jan 25 at 12:02
And the bass cleff is not provided separately btw. This is literally it
– Creynders
Jan 25 at 12:02
1
1
I would call this a courtesy accidental. The difference between "redundant" and "courtesy" is nil IMHO. Not really worth worrying about.
– Carl Witthoft
Jan 25 at 15:20
I would call this a courtesy accidental. The difference between "redundant" and "courtesy" is nil IMHO. Not really worth worrying about.
– Carl Witthoft
Jan 25 at 15:20
1
1
@CarlWitthoft - with you all the way. Basically can't see the point in that natural (or other superfluous accidentals) anyway. There's always enough stuff to read without overcrowding, I'm sure you'll agree!
– Tim
Jan 26 at 14:13
@CarlWitthoft - with you all the way. Basically can't see the point in that natural (or other superfluous accidentals) anyway. There's always enough stuff to read without overcrowding, I'm sure you'll agree!
– Tim
Jan 26 at 14:13
|
show 3 more comments
3 Answers
3
active
oldest
votes
The harmony of the given chord in the 1st 2 bars is in E (major chord), the accidental in front of g you consider (minor third!) is referring to this Chord of E.
answered Jan 25 at 12:02
Albrecht HügliAlbrecht Hügli
2,043219
1
Ah, ok I think I get it! Since the harmony's E and in the E chord there's no G but a G#, they want to alert you on that deviation, right?
– Creynders
Jan 25 at 12:05
I would say "chord" rather than "key," but this is obviously the correct answer.
– phoog
Jan 25 at 12:05
6
@Creynders that's a possible reason. It's also possible they didn't want you to think that they'd forgotten to put a sharp sign. I would have put the natural sign in parentheses.
– phoog
Jan 25 at 12:07
@phoog - Yep. The natural in front of the G is to ban the memory of the G# that went before in the accompaniment. And yeah, it should have been in parentheses.
– Scott Wallace
Jan 25 at 13:47
1
@AlbrechtHügli - it should perhaps be pointed out that the accidentals in early music you speak of are modern editor's additions- they don't appear in the original notation, with or without parentheses.
– Scott Wallace
Jan 28 at 19:20
|
show 8 more comments
This is where the blues notes blur the key. The 'key' is more likely E, but in Eminor blues the E blues scale uses the same notes as the G major blues. The writer has decided that that G major/E minor key sig, is clearer/ more accurate, but when there is G note, since it's over an E major chord, it needs to be G natural, and thus it's a courtesy accidental.
It's impossible to write a key sig. for blues, thus the dilemma and the potential need for these courtesies.
answered Jan 25 at 14:11
TimTim
100k10104256
add a comment |
the previous chord is an E Major chord, which has a G#, the natural sign is probably to remind you that you that the next bar does not have that, for some reason.
answered Jan 25 at 18:12
Neil MeyerNeil Meyer
9,23022752
duplicate answer, therefore dv.
– Tim
Jan 26 at 8:37
add a comment |
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3 Answers
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3 Answers
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The harmony of the given chord in the 1st 2 bars is in E (major chord), the accidental in front of g you consider (minor third!) is referring to this Chord of E.
answered Jan 25 at 12:02
Albrecht HügliAlbrecht Hügli
2,043219
1
Ah, ok I think I get it! Since the harmony's E and in the E chord there's no G but a G#, they want to alert you on that deviation, right?
– Creynders
Jan 25 at 12:05
I would say "chord" rather than "key," but this is obviously the correct answer.
– phoog
Jan 25 at 12:05
6
@Creynders that's a possible reason. It's also possible they didn't want you to think that they'd forgotten to put a sharp sign. I would have put the natural sign in parentheses.
– phoog
Jan 25 at 12:07
@phoog - Yep. The natural in front of the G is to ban the memory of the G# that went before in the accompaniment. And yeah, it should have been in parentheses.
– Scott Wallace
Jan 25 at 13:47
1
@AlbrechtHügli - it should perhaps be pointed out that the accidentals in early music you speak of are modern editor's additions- they don't appear in the original notation, with or without parentheses.
– Scott Wallace
Jan 28 at 19:20
|
show 8 more comments
The harmony of the given chord in the 1st 2 bars is in E (major chord), the accidental in front of g you consider (minor third!) is referring to this Chord of E.
answered Jan 25 at 12:02
Albrecht HügliAlbrecht Hügli
2,043219
1
Ah, ok I think I get it! Since the harmony's E and in the E chord there's no G but a G#, they want to alert you on that deviation, right?
– Creynders
Jan 25 at 12:05
I would say "chord" rather than "key," but this is obviously the correct answer.
– phoog
Jan 25 at 12:05
6
@Creynders that's a possible reason. It's also possible they didn't want you to think that they'd forgotten to put a sharp sign. I would have put the natural sign in parentheses.
– phoog
Jan 25 at 12:07
@phoog - Yep. The natural in front of the G is to ban the memory of the G# that went before in the accompaniment. And yeah, it should have been in parentheses.
– Scott Wallace
Jan 25 at 13:47
1
@AlbrechtHügli - it should perhaps be pointed out that the accidentals in early music you speak of are modern editor's additions- they don't appear in the original notation, with or without parentheses.
– Scott Wallace
Jan 28 at 19:20
|
show 8 more comments
The harmony of the given chord in the 1st 2 bars is in E (major chord), the accidental in front of g you consider (minor third!) is referring to this Chord of E.
answered Jan 25 at 12:02
Albrecht HügliAlbrecht Hügli
2,043219
The harmony of the given chord in the 1st 2 bars is in E (major chord), the accidental in front of g you consider (minor third!) is referring to this Chord of E.
answered Jan 25 at 12:02
Albrecht HügliAlbrecht Hügli
2,043219
edited Jan 25 at 18:22
answered Jan 25 at 12:02
Albrecht HügliAlbrecht Hügli
2,043219
answered Jan 25 at 12:02
Albrecht HügliAlbrecht Hügli
2,043219
answered Jan 25 at 12:02
Albrecht HügliAlbrecht Hügli
2,043219
2,043219
1
Ah, ok I think I get it! Since the harmony's E and in the E chord there's no G but a G#, they want to alert you on that deviation, right?
– Creynders
Jan 25 at 12:05
I would say "chord" rather than "key," but this is obviously the correct answer.
– phoog
Jan 25 at 12:05
6
@Creynders that's a possible reason. It's also possible they didn't want you to think that they'd forgotten to put a sharp sign. I would have put the natural sign in parentheses.
– phoog
Jan 25 at 12:07
@phoog - Yep. The natural in front of the G is to ban the memory of the G# that went before in the accompaniment. And yeah, it should have been in parentheses.
– Scott Wallace
Jan 25 at 13:47
1
@AlbrechtHügli - it should perhaps be pointed out that the accidentals in early music you speak of are modern editor's additions- they don't appear in the original notation, with or without parentheses.
– Scott Wallace
Jan 28 at 19:20
|
show 8 more comments
1
Ah, ok I think I get it! Since the harmony's E and in the E chord there's no G but a G#, they want to alert you on that deviation, right?
– Creynders
Jan 25 at 12:05
I would say "chord" rather than "key," but this is obviously the correct answer.
– phoog
Jan 25 at 12:05
6
@Creynders that's a possible reason. It's also possible they didn't want you to think that they'd forgotten to put a sharp sign. I would have put the natural sign in parentheses.
– phoog
Jan 25 at 12:07
@phoog - Yep. The natural in front of the G is to ban the memory of the G# that went before in the accompaniment. And yeah, it should have been in parentheses.
– Scott Wallace
Jan 25 at 13:47
1
@AlbrechtHügli - it should perhaps be pointed out that the accidentals in early music you speak of are modern editor's additions- they don't appear in the original notation, with or without parentheses.
– Scott Wallace
Jan 28 at 19:20
1
1
Ah, ok I think I get it! Since the harmony's E and in the E chord there's no G but a G#, they want to alert you on that deviation, right?
– Creynders
Jan 25 at 12:05
Ah, ok I think I get it! Since the harmony's E and in the E chord there's no G but a G#, they want to alert you on that deviation, right?
– Creynders
Jan 25 at 12:05
I would say "chord" rather than "key," but this is obviously the correct answer.
– phoog
Jan 25 at 12:05
I would say "chord" rather than "key," but this is obviously the correct answer.
– phoog
Jan 25 at 12:05
6
6
@Creynders that's a possible reason. It's also possible they didn't want you to think that they'd forgotten to put a sharp sign. I would have put the natural sign in parentheses.
– phoog
Jan 25 at 12:07
@Creynders that's a possible reason. It's also possible they didn't want you to think that they'd forgotten to put a sharp sign. I would have put the natural sign in parentheses.
– phoog
Jan 25 at 12:07
@phoog - Yep. The natural in front of the G is to ban the memory of the G# that went before in the accompaniment. And yeah, it should have been in parentheses.
– Scott Wallace
Jan 25 at 13:47
@phoog - Yep. The natural in front of the G is to ban the memory of the G# that went before in the accompaniment. And yeah, it should have been in parentheses.
– Scott Wallace
Jan 25 at 13:47
1
1
@AlbrechtHügli - it should perhaps be pointed out that the accidentals in early music you speak of are modern editor's additions- they don't appear in the original notation, with or without parentheses.
– Scott Wallace
Jan 28 at 19:20
@AlbrechtHügli - it should perhaps be pointed out that the accidentals in early music you speak of are modern editor's additions- they don't appear in the original notation, with or without parentheses.
– Scott Wallace
Jan 28 at 19:20
|
show 8 more comments
This is where the blues notes blur the key. The 'key' is more likely E, but in Eminor blues the E blues scale uses the same notes as the G major blues. The writer has decided that that G major/E minor key sig, is clearer/ more accurate, but when there is G note, since it's over an E major chord, it needs to be G natural, and thus it's a courtesy accidental.
It's impossible to write a key sig. for blues, thus the dilemma and the potential need for these courtesies.
answered Jan 25 at 14:11
TimTim
100k10104256
add a comment |
This is where the blues notes blur the key. The 'key' is more likely E, but in Eminor blues the E blues scale uses the same notes as the G major blues. The writer has decided that that G major/E minor key sig, is clearer/ more accurate, but when there is G note, since it's over an E major chord, it needs to be G natural, and thus it's a courtesy accidental.
It's impossible to write a key sig. for blues, thus the dilemma and the potential need for these courtesies.
answered Jan 25 at 14:11
TimTim
100k10104256
add a comment |
This is where the blues notes blur the key. The 'key' is more likely E, but in Eminor blues the E blues scale uses the same notes as the G major blues. The writer has decided that that G major/E minor key sig, is clearer/ more accurate, but when there is G note, since it's over an E major chord, it needs to be G natural, and thus it's a courtesy accidental.
It's impossible to write a key sig. for blues, thus the dilemma and the potential need for these courtesies.
answered Jan 25 at 14:11
TimTim
100k10104256
This is where the blues notes blur the key. The 'key' is more likely E, but in Eminor blues the E blues scale uses the same notes as the G major blues. The writer has decided that that G major/E minor key sig, is clearer/ more accurate, but when there is G note, since it's over an E major chord, it needs to be G natural, and thus it's a courtesy accidental.
It's impossible to write a key sig. for blues, thus the dilemma and the potential need for these courtesies.
answered Jan 25 at 14:11
TimTim
100k10104256
answered Jan 25 at 14:11
TimTim
100k10104256
answered Jan 25 at 14:11
TimTim
100k10104256
answered Jan 25 at 14:11
TimTim
100k10104256
100k10104256
add a comment |
add a comment |
the previous chord is an E Major chord, which has a G#, the natural sign is probably to remind you that you that the next bar does not have that, for some reason.
answered Jan 25 at 18:12
Neil MeyerNeil Meyer
9,23022752
duplicate answer, therefore dv.
– Tim
Jan 26 at 8:37
add a comment |
the previous chord is an E Major chord, which has a G#, the natural sign is probably to remind you that you that the next bar does not have that, for some reason.
answered Jan 25 at 18:12
Neil MeyerNeil Meyer
9,23022752
duplicate answer, therefore dv.
– Tim
Jan 26 at 8:37
add a comment |
the previous chord is an E Major chord, which has a G#, the natural sign is probably to remind you that you that the next bar does not have that, for some reason.
answered Jan 25 at 18:12
Neil MeyerNeil Meyer
9,23022752
the previous chord is an E Major chord, which has a G#, the natural sign is probably to remind you that you that the next bar does not have that, for some reason.
answered Jan 25 at 18:12
Neil MeyerNeil Meyer
9,23022752
answered Jan 25 at 18:12
Neil MeyerNeil Meyer
9,23022752
answered Jan 25 at 18:12
Neil MeyerNeil Meyer
9,23022752
answered Jan 25 at 18:12
Neil MeyerNeil Meyer
9,23022752
9,23022752
duplicate answer, therefore dv.
– Tim
Jan 26 at 8:37
add a comment |
duplicate answer, therefore dv.
– Tim
Jan 26 at 8:37
duplicate answer, therefore dv.
– Tim
Jan 26 at 8:37
duplicate answer, therefore dv.
– Tim
Jan 26 at 8:37
add a comment |
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1
could you please poste a few more bars and the staff of F clef too? I assume there could be a G# in the left hand if this is somewhat of a blues style ...
– Albrecht Hügli
Jan 25 at 11:52
1
Hehe, it doesn't really provide any more info, except that the chord's E there. But I uploaded a picture, so you can see for yourself.
– Creynders
Jan 25 at 11:59
1
And the bass cleff is not provided separately btw. This is literally it
– Creynders
Jan 25 at 12:02
1
I would call this a courtesy accidental. The difference between "redundant" and "courtesy" is nil IMHO. Not really worth worrying about.
– Carl Witthoft
Jan 25 at 15:20
1
@CarlWitthoft - with you all the way. Basically can't see the point in that natural (or other superfluous accidentals) anyway. There's always enough stuff to read without overcrowding, I'm sure you'll agree!
– Tim
Jan 26 at 14:13