Expected lifespan estimate for SD card used in read only mode
I know that SD cards, like all things, have a limited lifespan and I know that they can handle a limited number of write cycles, which is usually what limits the lifespan. But what is an MTBF estimate for an SD card that is only wirtten to once and then used only for reads?
Here's why I'm asking. My car dealer is telling me that my navigation system is failing because the map SD card, which is set to read only, has gone bad after just a few years. I find this difficult to believe.
sd-card
asked Dec 20 '18 at 16:36
EMan L
211
add a comment |
I know that SD cards, like all things, have a limited lifespan and I know that they can handle a limited number of write cycles, which is usually what limits the lifespan. But what is an MTBF estimate for an SD card that is only wirtten to once and then used only for reads?
Here's why I'm asking. My car dealer is telling me that my navigation system is failing because the map SD card, which is set to read only, has gone bad after just a few years. I find this difficult to believe.
sd-card
asked Dec 20 '18 at 16:36
EMan L
211
Thanks to both lgb and Tetsujin for comments and the quick replies. SD cards are cheap, but this one with the map data on it is not. I agree with everything that both of you have written. I'm going to go over to the dealer with my laptop and run a chkdsk on the card. I upgraded the maps a few years ago and I still have the original SD card that came with the car. Chkdsk produced no errors when I ran the utility on the card. If chkdsk shows errors on the current card, I will agree that the card is bad. Otherwise I'm going to ask that the old be popped in to see if the problem persists.
– EMan L
Dec 20 '18 at 17:52
1
If you want to detect bit rot, you should do SHA2 checksums on all the files, and verify each month (or etc) that they still match.
– cybernard
Dec 20 '18 at 20:07
add a comment |
I know that SD cards, like all things, have a limited lifespan and I know that they can handle a limited number of write cycles, which is usually what limits the lifespan. But what is an MTBF estimate for an SD card that is only wirtten to once and then used only for reads?
Here's why I'm asking. My car dealer is telling me that my navigation system is failing because the map SD card, which is set to read only, has gone bad after just a few years. I find this difficult to believe.
sd-card
asked Dec 20 '18 at 16:36
EMan L
211
I know that SD cards, like all things, have a limited lifespan and I know that they can handle a limited number of write cycles, which is usually what limits the lifespan. But what is an MTBF estimate for an SD card that is only wirtten to once and then used only for reads?
Here's why I'm asking. My car dealer is telling me that my navigation system is failing because the map SD card, which is set to read only, has gone bad after just a few years. I find this difficult to believe.
sd-card
sd-card
asked Dec 20 '18 at 16:36
EMan L
211
asked Dec 20 '18 at 16:36
EMan L
211
asked Dec 20 '18 at 16:36
EMan L
211
asked Dec 20 '18 at 16:36
EMan L
211
asked Dec 20 '18 at 16:36
EMan L
211
211
Thanks to both lgb and Tetsujin for comments and the quick replies. SD cards are cheap, but this one with the map data on it is not. I agree with everything that both of you have written. I'm going to go over to the dealer with my laptop and run a chkdsk on the card. I upgraded the maps a few years ago and I still have the original SD card that came with the car. Chkdsk produced no errors when I ran the utility on the card. If chkdsk shows errors on the current card, I will agree that the card is bad. Otherwise I'm going to ask that the old be popped in to see if the problem persists.
– EMan L
Dec 20 '18 at 17:52
1
If you want to detect bit rot, you should do SHA2 checksums on all the files, and verify each month (or etc) that they still match.
– cybernard
Dec 20 '18 at 20:07
add a comment |
Thanks to both lgb and Tetsujin for comments and the quick replies. SD cards are cheap, but this one with the map data on it is not. I agree with everything that both of you have written. I'm going to go over to the dealer with my laptop and run a chkdsk on the card. I upgraded the maps a few years ago and I still have the original SD card that came with the car. Chkdsk produced no errors when I ran the utility on the card. If chkdsk shows errors on the current card, I will agree that the card is bad. Otherwise I'm going to ask that the old be popped in to see if the problem persists.
– EMan L
Dec 20 '18 at 17:52
1
If you want to detect bit rot, you should do SHA2 checksums on all the files, and verify each month (or etc) that they still match.
– cybernard
Dec 20 '18 at 20:07
Thanks to both lgb and Tetsujin for comments and the quick replies. SD cards are cheap, but this one with the map data on it is not. I agree with everything that both of you have written. I'm going to go over to the dealer with my laptop and run a chkdsk on the card. I upgraded the maps a few years ago and I still have the original SD card that came with the car. Chkdsk produced no errors when I ran the utility on the card. If chkdsk shows errors on the current card, I will agree that the card is bad. Otherwise I'm going to ask that the old be popped in to see if the problem persists.
– EMan L
Dec 20 '18 at 17:52
Thanks to both lgb and Tetsujin for comments and the quick replies. SD cards are cheap, but this one with the map data on it is not. I agree with everything that both of you have written. I'm going to go over to the dealer with my laptop and run a chkdsk on the card. I upgraded the maps a few years ago and I still have the original SD card that came with the car. Chkdsk produced no errors when I ran the utility on the card. If chkdsk shows errors on the current card, I will agree that the card is bad. Otherwise I'm going to ask that the old be popped in to see if the problem persists.
– EMan L
Dec 20 '18 at 17:52
1
1
If you want to detect bit rot, you should do SHA2 checksums on all the files, and verify each month (or etc) that they still match.
– cybernard
Dec 20 '18 at 20:07
If you want to detect bit rot, you should do SHA2 checksums on all the files, and verify each month (or etc) that they still match.
– cybernard
Dec 20 '18 at 20:07
add a comment |
2 Answers
2
active
oldest
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It's quite likely - SD cards are delicate & fail easily.
I could find you the MTTF figures for your particular card, but it wouldn't really tell you anything except what it says - mean time to failure, the average life-expectancy of that specific model, not the life-span of any individual card.
I used to get through hundreds, if not thousands*, of SD cards for work. They would be write few, read many - so they'd have new data put on, which would then be inserted into a read-only machine for several months/years at a time, then cycled round again with new data.
Part of my job was to check the machines, repair/replace as necessary, throw away the failed SD cards & replace them - so I've seen one heck of a lot over 10 years of operation to form this opinion.
Some will rock on for years without a glitch. Some will start to fail in a few weeks. There's no way to tell which is going to do which.
The 'fix' is just to bin it & get another. It's pointless trying to fight them once they start to fail.
They're cheap, they're disposable.
They should never be used to store the only copy of any important information.
*I worked it out roughly - at any one time I would have just under 2,000 cards in the field, in constant use.
answered Dec 20 '18 at 16:49
Tetsujin
15.4k53261
Yes, flash media is just like a car battery; on average it's expected that it will fail after X amount of time but it's impossible to know for any individual specimen. I've been driving around on the original battery in my car for 8 years now. It should have died a long time ago but it's still going strong.
– Wes Sayeed
Dec 20 '18 at 17:50
add a comment |
As explained here https://electronics.stackexchange.com/questions/162415/will-reading-serial-flash-memory-wear-it-out there is virtually no limit on how much reads a flash memory can support, BUT there is a phenomenon called read disturb, that can corrupt the data on the surrounding cells.
This happens with a very high number of read operations on the same block, and is usually taken care of by the controller of the flash memory. I am unsure if that process can happen at all if the SD is write protected.
Given that a SD card is a cheap replacement, I would say just buy one from a reputable brand and check if it fixes the problem. It's maybe BS from the dealer, but sure it can happen. As Tetsujin say, SD is not the most robust media ever, they can fail for no reason at all.
answered Dec 20 '18 at 16:51
Igb
39115
1
SD card write protect is only a software switch [which most systems respect but don't actually have to] so is actually not really relevant.
– Tetsujin
Dec 20 '18 at 16:53
@Tetsujin ok, thanks for the clarification. In that case, there is even less warranty that the SD card of OP recieved no writes.
– Igb
Dec 20 '18 at 16:54
1
If the machine is read only, then it would be 'certainty enough' though no guarantee. Presumably if the flash controller itself can handle moving data to try compensate for read disturb [which I hadn't heard about before, so thank you for that] then it may mitigate it - but practically, the darn things just fall over when they feel like it ;)
– Tetsujin
Dec 20 '18 at 16:56
add a comment |
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2 Answers
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It's quite likely - SD cards are delicate & fail easily.
I could find you the MTTF figures for your particular card, but it wouldn't really tell you anything except what it says - mean time to failure, the average life-expectancy of that specific model, not the life-span of any individual card.
I used to get through hundreds, if not thousands*, of SD cards for work. They would be write few, read many - so they'd have new data put on, which would then be inserted into a read-only machine for several months/years at a time, then cycled round again with new data.
Part of my job was to check the machines, repair/replace as necessary, throw away the failed SD cards & replace them - so I've seen one heck of a lot over 10 years of operation to form this opinion.
Some will rock on for years without a glitch. Some will start to fail in a few weeks. There's no way to tell which is going to do which.
The 'fix' is just to bin it & get another. It's pointless trying to fight them once they start to fail.
They're cheap, they're disposable.
They should never be used to store the only copy of any important information.
*I worked it out roughly - at any one time I would have just under 2,000 cards in the field, in constant use.
answered Dec 20 '18 at 16:49
Tetsujin
15.4k53261
Yes, flash media is just like a car battery; on average it's expected that it will fail after X amount of time but it's impossible to know for any individual specimen. I've been driving around on the original battery in my car for 8 years now. It should have died a long time ago but it's still going strong.
– Wes Sayeed
Dec 20 '18 at 17:50
add a comment |
It's quite likely - SD cards are delicate & fail easily.
I could find you the MTTF figures for your particular card, but it wouldn't really tell you anything except what it says - mean time to failure, the average life-expectancy of that specific model, not the life-span of any individual card.
I used to get through hundreds, if not thousands*, of SD cards for work. They would be write few, read many - so they'd have new data put on, which would then be inserted into a read-only machine for several months/years at a time, then cycled round again with new data.
Part of my job was to check the machines, repair/replace as necessary, throw away the failed SD cards & replace them - so I've seen one heck of a lot over 10 years of operation to form this opinion.
Some will rock on for years without a glitch. Some will start to fail in a few weeks. There's no way to tell which is going to do which.
The 'fix' is just to bin it & get another. It's pointless trying to fight them once they start to fail.
They're cheap, they're disposable.
They should never be used to store the only copy of any important information.
*I worked it out roughly - at any one time I would have just under 2,000 cards in the field, in constant use.
answered Dec 20 '18 at 16:49
Tetsujin
15.4k53261
Yes, flash media is just like a car battery; on average it's expected that it will fail after X amount of time but it's impossible to know for any individual specimen. I've been driving around on the original battery in my car for 8 years now. It should have died a long time ago but it's still going strong.
– Wes Sayeed
Dec 20 '18 at 17:50
add a comment |
It's quite likely - SD cards are delicate & fail easily.
I could find you the MTTF figures for your particular card, but it wouldn't really tell you anything except what it says - mean time to failure, the average life-expectancy of that specific model, not the life-span of any individual card.
I used to get through hundreds, if not thousands*, of SD cards for work. They would be write few, read many - so they'd have new data put on, which would then be inserted into a read-only machine for several months/years at a time, then cycled round again with new data.
Part of my job was to check the machines, repair/replace as necessary, throw away the failed SD cards & replace them - so I've seen one heck of a lot over 10 years of operation to form this opinion.
Some will rock on for years without a glitch. Some will start to fail in a few weeks. There's no way to tell which is going to do which.
The 'fix' is just to bin it & get another. It's pointless trying to fight them once they start to fail.
They're cheap, they're disposable.
They should never be used to store the only copy of any important information.
*I worked it out roughly - at any one time I would have just under 2,000 cards in the field, in constant use.
answered Dec 20 '18 at 16:49
Tetsujin
15.4k53261
It's quite likely - SD cards are delicate & fail easily.
I could find you the MTTF figures for your particular card, but it wouldn't really tell you anything except what it says - mean time to failure, the average life-expectancy of that specific model, not the life-span of any individual card.
I used to get through hundreds, if not thousands*, of SD cards for work. They would be write few, read many - so they'd have new data put on, which would then be inserted into a read-only machine for several months/years at a time, then cycled round again with new data.
Part of my job was to check the machines, repair/replace as necessary, throw away the failed SD cards & replace them - so I've seen one heck of a lot over 10 years of operation to form this opinion.
Some will rock on for years without a glitch. Some will start to fail in a few weeks. There's no way to tell which is going to do which.
The 'fix' is just to bin it & get another. It's pointless trying to fight them once they start to fail.
They're cheap, they're disposable.
They should never be used to store the only copy of any important information.
*I worked it out roughly - at any one time I would have just under 2,000 cards in the field, in constant use.
answered Dec 20 '18 at 16:49
Tetsujin
15.4k53261
edited Dec 20 '18 at 16:59
answered Dec 20 '18 at 16:49
Tetsujin
15.4k53261
answered Dec 20 '18 at 16:49
Tetsujin
15.4k53261
answered Dec 20 '18 at 16:49
Tetsujin
15.4k53261
15.4k53261
Yes, flash media is just like a car battery; on average it's expected that it will fail after X amount of time but it's impossible to know for any individual specimen. I've been driving around on the original battery in my car for 8 years now. It should have died a long time ago but it's still going strong.
– Wes Sayeed
Dec 20 '18 at 17:50
add a comment |
Yes, flash media is just like a car battery; on average it's expected that it will fail after X amount of time but it's impossible to know for any individual specimen. I've been driving around on the original battery in my car for 8 years now. It should have died a long time ago but it's still going strong.
– Wes Sayeed
Dec 20 '18 at 17:50
Yes, flash media is just like a car battery; on average it's expected that it will fail after X amount of time but it's impossible to know for any individual specimen. I've been driving around on the original battery in my car for 8 years now. It should have died a long time ago but it's still going strong.
– Wes Sayeed
Dec 20 '18 at 17:50
Yes, flash media is just like a car battery; on average it's expected that it will fail after X amount of time but it's impossible to know for any individual specimen. I've been driving around on the original battery in my car for 8 years now. It should have died a long time ago but it's still going strong.
– Wes Sayeed
Dec 20 '18 at 17:50
add a comment |
As explained here https://electronics.stackexchange.com/questions/162415/will-reading-serial-flash-memory-wear-it-out there is virtually no limit on how much reads a flash memory can support, BUT there is a phenomenon called read disturb, that can corrupt the data on the surrounding cells.
This happens with a very high number of read operations on the same block, and is usually taken care of by the controller of the flash memory. I am unsure if that process can happen at all if the SD is write protected.
Given that a SD card is a cheap replacement, I would say just buy one from a reputable brand and check if it fixes the problem. It's maybe BS from the dealer, but sure it can happen. As Tetsujin say, SD is not the most robust media ever, they can fail for no reason at all.
answered Dec 20 '18 at 16:51
Igb
39115
1
SD card write protect is only a software switch [which most systems respect but don't actually have to] so is actually not really relevant.
– Tetsujin
Dec 20 '18 at 16:53
@Tetsujin ok, thanks for the clarification. In that case, there is even less warranty that the SD card of OP recieved no writes.
– Igb
Dec 20 '18 at 16:54
1
If the machine is read only, then it would be 'certainty enough' though no guarantee. Presumably if the flash controller itself can handle moving data to try compensate for read disturb [which I hadn't heard about before, so thank you for that] then it may mitigate it - but practically, the darn things just fall over when they feel like it ;)
– Tetsujin
Dec 20 '18 at 16:56
add a comment |
As explained here https://electronics.stackexchange.com/questions/162415/will-reading-serial-flash-memory-wear-it-out there is virtually no limit on how much reads a flash memory can support, BUT there is a phenomenon called read disturb, that can corrupt the data on the surrounding cells.
This happens with a very high number of read operations on the same block, and is usually taken care of by the controller of the flash memory. I am unsure if that process can happen at all if the SD is write protected.
Given that a SD card is a cheap replacement, I would say just buy one from a reputable brand and check if it fixes the problem. It's maybe BS from the dealer, but sure it can happen. As Tetsujin say, SD is not the most robust media ever, they can fail for no reason at all.
answered Dec 20 '18 at 16:51
Igb
39115
1
SD card write protect is only a software switch [which most systems respect but don't actually have to] so is actually not really relevant.
– Tetsujin
Dec 20 '18 at 16:53
@Tetsujin ok, thanks for the clarification. In that case, there is even less warranty that the SD card of OP recieved no writes.
– Igb
Dec 20 '18 at 16:54
1
If the machine is read only, then it would be 'certainty enough' though no guarantee. Presumably if the flash controller itself can handle moving data to try compensate for read disturb [which I hadn't heard about before, so thank you for that] then it may mitigate it - but practically, the darn things just fall over when they feel like it ;)
– Tetsujin
Dec 20 '18 at 16:56
add a comment |
As explained here https://electronics.stackexchange.com/questions/162415/will-reading-serial-flash-memory-wear-it-out there is virtually no limit on how much reads a flash memory can support, BUT there is a phenomenon called read disturb, that can corrupt the data on the surrounding cells.
This happens with a very high number of read operations on the same block, and is usually taken care of by the controller of the flash memory. I am unsure if that process can happen at all if the SD is write protected.
Given that a SD card is a cheap replacement, I would say just buy one from a reputable brand and check if it fixes the problem. It's maybe BS from the dealer, but sure it can happen. As Tetsujin say, SD is not the most robust media ever, they can fail for no reason at all.
answered Dec 20 '18 at 16:51
Igb
39115
As explained here https://electronics.stackexchange.com/questions/162415/will-reading-serial-flash-memory-wear-it-out there is virtually no limit on how much reads a flash memory can support, BUT there is a phenomenon called read disturb, that can corrupt the data on the surrounding cells.
This happens with a very high number of read operations on the same block, and is usually taken care of by the controller of the flash memory. I am unsure if that process can happen at all if the SD is write protected.
Given that a SD card is a cheap replacement, I would say just buy one from a reputable brand and check if it fixes the problem. It's maybe BS from the dealer, but sure it can happen. As Tetsujin say, SD is not the most robust media ever, they can fail for no reason at all.
answered Dec 20 '18 at 16:51
Igb
39115
answered Dec 20 '18 at 16:51
Igb
39115
answered Dec 20 '18 at 16:51
Igb
39115
answered Dec 20 '18 at 16:51
Igb
39115
39115
1
SD card write protect is only a software switch [which most systems respect but don't actually have to] so is actually not really relevant.
– Tetsujin
Dec 20 '18 at 16:53
@Tetsujin ok, thanks for the clarification. In that case, there is even less warranty that the SD card of OP recieved no writes.
– Igb
Dec 20 '18 at 16:54
1
If the machine is read only, then it would be 'certainty enough' though no guarantee. Presumably if the flash controller itself can handle moving data to try compensate for read disturb [which I hadn't heard about before, so thank you for that] then it may mitigate it - but practically, the darn things just fall over when they feel like it ;)
– Tetsujin
Dec 20 '18 at 16:56
add a comment |
1
SD card write protect is only a software switch [which most systems respect but don't actually have to] so is actually not really relevant.
– Tetsujin
Dec 20 '18 at 16:53
@Tetsujin ok, thanks for the clarification. In that case, there is even less warranty that the SD card of OP recieved no writes.
– Igb
Dec 20 '18 at 16:54
1
If the machine is read only, then it would be 'certainty enough' though no guarantee. Presumably if the flash controller itself can handle moving data to try compensate for read disturb [which I hadn't heard about before, so thank you for that] then it may mitigate it - but practically, the darn things just fall over when they feel like it ;)
– Tetsujin
Dec 20 '18 at 16:56
1
1
SD card write protect is only a software switch [which most systems respect but don't actually have to] so is actually not really relevant.
– Tetsujin
Dec 20 '18 at 16:53
SD card write protect is only a software switch [which most systems respect but don't actually have to] so is actually not really relevant.
– Tetsujin
Dec 20 '18 at 16:53
@Tetsujin ok, thanks for the clarification. In that case, there is even less warranty that the SD card of OP recieved no writes.
– Igb
Dec 20 '18 at 16:54
@Tetsujin ok, thanks for the clarification. In that case, there is even less warranty that the SD card of OP recieved no writes.
– Igb
Dec 20 '18 at 16:54
1
1
If the machine is read only, then it would be 'certainty enough' though no guarantee. Presumably if the flash controller itself can handle moving data to try compensate for read disturb [which I hadn't heard about before, so thank you for that] then it may mitigate it - but practically, the darn things just fall over when they feel like it ;)
– Tetsujin
Dec 20 '18 at 16:56
If the machine is read only, then it would be 'certainty enough' though no guarantee. Presumably if the flash controller itself can handle moving data to try compensate for read disturb [which I hadn't heard about before, so thank you for that] then it may mitigate it - but practically, the darn things just fall over when they feel like it ;)
– Tetsujin
Dec 20 '18 at 16:56
add a comment |
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Thanks to both lgb and Tetsujin for comments and the quick replies. SD cards are cheap, but this one with the map data on it is not. I agree with everything that both of you have written. I'm going to go over to the dealer with my laptop and run a chkdsk on the card. I upgraded the maps a few years ago and I still have the original SD card that came with the car. Chkdsk produced no errors when I ran the utility on the card. If chkdsk shows errors on the current card, I will agree that the card is bad. Otherwise I'm going to ask that the old be popped in to see if the problem persists.
– EMan L
Dec 20 '18 at 17:52
1
If you want to detect bit rot, you should do SHA2 checksums on all the files, and verify each month (or etc) that they still match.
– cybernard
Dec 20 '18 at 20:07