Is $ A = left{ frac{1}{n} mid n in mathbb{N} right} $ as a subspace of $(0, +infty)$ closed?
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Is $ A = left{ frac{1}{n} ,middle|, n in mathbb{N} right} $ as a subspace of $( 0, +infty) $ closed? Also is it compact? Can I use the definition that a set is compact if it is closed and bounded subset of $mathbb{R}$ in this case because I'm looking at a subspace of $mathbb{R}$?
I would say that it is closed because its complement in $(0, +infty)$ is open. Then it would alse be compact because it is bounded.
general-topology
add a comment |
up vote
3
down vote
favorite
Is $ A = left{ frac{1}{n} ,middle|, n in mathbb{N} right} $ as a subspace of $( 0, +infty) $ closed? Also is it compact? Can I use the definition that a set is compact if it is closed and bounded subset of $mathbb{R}$ in this case because I'm looking at a subspace of $mathbb{R}$?
I would say that it is closed because its complement in $(0, +infty)$ is open. Then it would alse be compact because it is bounded.
general-topology
1
I'm the langle rangle fairy, here to let you know that $langle, rangle$ plays nicer with TeX than $<, >$ does :)
– Patrick Stevens
Nov 18 at 15:53
2
What does $langle 0, +infty rangle$ denote? Is it $[0,+infty)$ or $(0,+infty)$?
– Jimmy R.
Nov 18 at 15:55
it's $(0, +infty)$
– user15269
Nov 18 at 15:57
add a comment |
up vote
3
down vote
favorite
up vote
3
down vote
favorite
Is $ A = left{ frac{1}{n} ,middle|, n in mathbb{N} right} $ as a subspace of $( 0, +infty) $ closed? Also is it compact? Can I use the definition that a set is compact if it is closed and bounded subset of $mathbb{R}$ in this case because I'm looking at a subspace of $mathbb{R}$?
I would say that it is closed because its complement in $(0, +infty)$ is open. Then it would alse be compact because it is bounded.
general-topology
Is $ A = left{ frac{1}{n} ,middle|, n in mathbb{N} right} $ as a subspace of $( 0, +infty) $ closed? Also is it compact? Can I use the definition that a set is compact if it is closed and bounded subset of $mathbb{R}$ in this case because I'm looking at a subspace of $mathbb{R}$?
I would say that it is closed because its complement in $(0, +infty)$ is open. Then it would alse be compact because it is bounded.
general-topology
general-topology
edited Nov 18 at 15:59
Jimmy R.
33k42157
33k42157
asked Nov 18 at 15:39
user15269
1608
1608
1
I'm the langle rangle fairy, here to let you know that $langle, rangle$ plays nicer with TeX than $<, >$ does :)
– Patrick Stevens
Nov 18 at 15:53
2
What does $langle 0, +infty rangle$ denote? Is it $[0,+infty)$ or $(0,+infty)$?
– Jimmy R.
Nov 18 at 15:55
it's $(0, +infty)$
– user15269
Nov 18 at 15:57
add a comment |
1
I'm the langle rangle fairy, here to let you know that $langle, rangle$ plays nicer with TeX than $<, >$ does :)
– Patrick Stevens
Nov 18 at 15:53
2
What does $langle 0, +infty rangle$ denote? Is it $[0,+infty)$ or $(0,+infty)$?
– Jimmy R.
Nov 18 at 15:55
it's $(0, +infty)$
– user15269
Nov 18 at 15:57
1
1
I'm the langle rangle fairy, here to let you know that $langle, rangle$ plays nicer with TeX than $<, >$ does :)
– Patrick Stevens
Nov 18 at 15:53
I'm the langle rangle fairy, here to let you know that $langle, rangle$ plays nicer with TeX than $<, >$ does :)
– Patrick Stevens
Nov 18 at 15:53
2
2
What does $langle 0, +infty rangle$ denote? Is it $[0,+infty)$ or $(0,+infty)$?
– Jimmy R.
Nov 18 at 15:55
What does $langle 0, +infty rangle$ denote? Is it $[0,+infty)$ or $(0,+infty)$?
– Jimmy R.
Nov 18 at 15:55
it's $(0, +infty)$
– user15269
Nov 18 at 15:57
it's $(0, +infty)$
– user15269
Nov 18 at 15:57
add a comment |
4 Answers
4
active
oldest
votes
up vote
2
down vote
accepted
Unfortunately, when we consider $(0,infty)$ as a topological space in its own right, as a subset of $mathbb R$ under the subspace topology, it is not true that if a set is bounded and closed, then it is compact.
You may want to go back to the proof of the Heine-Borel theorem (which states that the above is true for $mathbb R$), and see where it fails for the above case.
Therefore, compactness may be checked/negated either via definition (open cover) or using the fact that in a metric space, this is equivalent to the notion of "sequential compactness". Let us put these definitions side by side :
Usual : Every open cover has a finite subcover.
Sequential compactness : Every sequence has a convergent subsequence, with limit inside the set.
To check if a set in a metric space is compact, any one of the above criteria may be used.
With this in mind, sequential compactness is readily seen to not hold for the given set, since ${frac 1n}$ is a sequence in $A$, which has no convergent subsequence in $A$, since the sequence, and therefore every subsequence, converges to $0$ in the metric space topology , but $0 notin (0,infty)$, so the fact is that no subsequence of $A$ is convergent. Therefore, $A$ is not compact.
For using the other definition, we note that open sets in $(0,infty)$ are the intersection of $(0,infty)$ with usual open sets in $mathbb R$. So, since $A$ is not compact in $mathbb R$ (it does not contain the limit point $0$, so is not closed), so there is an open(in $mathbb R$) cover of $A$ having no finite subcover. Taking the intersection of all these open sets with $(0,infty)$ gives us an open (in $(0,infty)$) cover of $A$ which has no finite subcover. Thus, even via a direct means of attack we can contradict compactness of $A$.
Note that $A$ is closed in $(0,infty)$, since it has no limit points, and $A$ is bounded. However, $A$ is not compact.
1
A pleasure to read!
– Peter Szilas
Nov 18 at 16:54
@PeterSzilas Thank you!
– астон вілла олоф мэллбэрг
Nov 18 at 23:34
add a comment |
up vote
3
down vote
As you have correctly observed, $A$ is closed (as a subspace of $(0,infty)$) since its complement is an open subset of $(0,infty)$.
On the other hand, $A$ is not compact. In particular, the sequence $(frac 1n)_{n in Bbb N}$ is a sequence in $A$ that has no convergent subsequence (since $0$, the sequence's limit in $Bbb R$, is not in $A$).
I get your answer but as A is bounded and closed why doesn't it follow that it is compact? That's the thing that confuses me .
– user15269
Nov 18 at 16:09
3
@user15269 Because the "bounded and closed" criterium applies to subsets of $mathbb{R}^n$, not subsets of $(0,infty)$.
– freakish
Nov 18 at 16:09
@freakish quick heads up: the word you're looking for is "criterion" rather than criterium. Thanks for the comment though
– Omnomnomnom
Nov 18 at 20:08
@Omnomnomnom of course, thanks for noticing the mistake.
– freakish
Nov 18 at 20:10
add a comment |
up vote
2
down vote
It's closed as its complement is just
$$bigcup_{nin mathbb{N}}left(frac1{n+1},frac1nright)cup(1,+infty)$$
which is a union of open sets.
For compactness, see @Omnomnomnom's answer.
add a comment |
up vote
2
down vote
One of the other answers has already used the sequential definition of compactness, so here is a way to think about why $A$ not compact using the open cover definition. For each $frac{1}{n}$, we can consider the open ball of radius $epsilon = min big{ frac{1}{n} - frac{1}{n+1}, frac{1}{n-1} - frac{1}{n}big}$. The collection of these open balls forms an open cover of $A = big{ frac{1}{n} : n in mathbb{N}big}$, yet each open ball contains only one element of $A$. Therefore, this (infinite) open cover does not admit a finite subcover, so $A$ is not compact.
add a comment |
4 Answers
4
active
oldest
votes
4 Answers
4
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
up vote
2
down vote
accepted
Unfortunately, when we consider $(0,infty)$ as a topological space in its own right, as a subset of $mathbb R$ under the subspace topology, it is not true that if a set is bounded and closed, then it is compact.
You may want to go back to the proof of the Heine-Borel theorem (which states that the above is true for $mathbb R$), and see where it fails for the above case.
Therefore, compactness may be checked/negated either via definition (open cover) or using the fact that in a metric space, this is equivalent to the notion of "sequential compactness". Let us put these definitions side by side :
Usual : Every open cover has a finite subcover.
Sequential compactness : Every sequence has a convergent subsequence, with limit inside the set.
To check if a set in a metric space is compact, any one of the above criteria may be used.
With this in mind, sequential compactness is readily seen to not hold for the given set, since ${frac 1n}$ is a sequence in $A$, which has no convergent subsequence in $A$, since the sequence, and therefore every subsequence, converges to $0$ in the metric space topology , but $0 notin (0,infty)$, so the fact is that no subsequence of $A$ is convergent. Therefore, $A$ is not compact.
For using the other definition, we note that open sets in $(0,infty)$ are the intersection of $(0,infty)$ with usual open sets in $mathbb R$. So, since $A$ is not compact in $mathbb R$ (it does not contain the limit point $0$, so is not closed), so there is an open(in $mathbb R$) cover of $A$ having no finite subcover. Taking the intersection of all these open sets with $(0,infty)$ gives us an open (in $(0,infty)$) cover of $A$ which has no finite subcover. Thus, even via a direct means of attack we can contradict compactness of $A$.
Note that $A$ is closed in $(0,infty)$, since it has no limit points, and $A$ is bounded. However, $A$ is not compact.
1
A pleasure to read!
– Peter Szilas
Nov 18 at 16:54
@PeterSzilas Thank you!
– астон вілла олоф мэллбэрг
Nov 18 at 23:34
add a comment |
up vote
2
down vote
accepted
Unfortunately, when we consider $(0,infty)$ as a topological space in its own right, as a subset of $mathbb R$ under the subspace topology, it is not true that if a set is bounded and closed, then it is compact.
You may want to go back to the proof of the Heine-Borel theorem (which states that the above is true for $mathbb R$), and see where it fails for the above case.
Therefore, compactness may be checked/negated either via definition (open cover) or using the fact that in a metric space, this is equivalent to the notion of "sequential compactness". Let us put these definitions side by side :
Usual : Every open cover has a finite subcover.
Sequential compactness : Every sequence has a convergent subsequence, with limit inside the set.
To check if a set in a metric space is compact, any one of the above criteria may be used.
With this in mind, sequential compactness is readily seen to not hold for the given set, since ${frac 1n}$ is a sequence in $A$, which has no convergent subsequence in $A$, since the sequence, and therefore every subsequence, converges to $0$ in the metric space topology , but $0 notin (0,infty)$, so the fact is that no subsequence of $A$ is convergent. Therefore, $A$ is not compact.
For using the other definition, we note that open sets in $(0,infty)$ are the intersection of $(0,infty)$ with usual open sets in $mathbb R$. So, since $A$ is not compact in $mathbb R$ (it does not contain the limit point $0$, so is not closed), so there is an open(in $mathbb R$) cover of $A$ having no finite subcover. Taking the intersection of all these open sets with $(0,infty)$ gives us an open (in $(0,infty)$) cover of $A$ which has no finite subcover. Thus, even via a direct means of attack we can contradict compactness of $A$.
Note that $A$ is closed in $(0,infty)$, since it has no limit points, and $A$ is bounded. However, $A$ is not compact.
1
A pleasure to read!
– Peter Szilas
Nov 18 at 16:54
@PeterSzilas Thank you!
– астон вілла олоф мэллбэрг
Nov 18 at 23:34
add a comment |
up vote
2
down vote
accepted
up vote
2
down vote
accepted
Unfortunately, when we consider $(0,infty)$ as a topological space in its own right, as a subset of $mathbb R$ under the subspace topology, it is not true that if a set is bounded and closed, then it is compact.
You may want to go back to the proof of the Heine-Borel theorem (which states that the above is true for $mathbb R$), and see where it fails for the above case.
Therefore, compactness may be checked/negated either via definition (open cover) or using the fact that in a metric space, this is equivalent to the notion of "sequential compactness". Let us put these definitions side by side :
Usual : Every open cover has a finite subcover.
Sequential compactness : Every sequence has a convergent subsequence, with limit inside the set.
To check if a set in a metric space is compact, any one of the above criteria may be used.
With this in mind, sequential compactness is readily seen to not hold for the given set, since ${frac 1n}$ is a sequence in $A$, which has no convergent subsequence in $A$, since the sequence, and therefore every subsequence, converges to $0$ in the metric space topology , but $0 notin (0,infty)$, so the fact is that no subsequence of $A$ is convergent. Therefore, $A$ is not compact.
For using the other definition, we note that open sets in $(0,infty)$ are the intersection of $(0,infty)$ with usual open sets in $mathbb R$. So, since $A$ is not compact in $mathbb R$ (it does not contain the limit point $0$, so is not closed), so there is an open(in $mathbb R$) cover of $A$ having no finite subcover. Taking the intersection of all these open sets with $(0,infty)$ gives us an open (in $(0,infty)$) cover of $A$ which has no finite subcover. Thus, even via a direct means of attack we can contradict compactness of $A$.
Note that $A$ is closed in $(0,infty)$, since it has no limit points, and $A$ is bounded. However, $A$ is not compact.
Unfortunately, when we consider $(0,infty)$ as a topological space in its own right, as a subset of $mathbb R$ under the subspace topology, it is not true that if a set is bounded and closed, then it is compact.
You may want to go back to the proof of the Heine-Borel theorem (which states that the above is true for $mathbb R$), and see where it fails for the above case.
Therefore, compactness may be checked/negated either via definition (open cover) or using the fact that in a metric space, this is equivalent to the notion of "sequential compactness". Let us put these definitions side by side :
Usual : Every open cover has a finite subcover.
Sequential compactness : Every sequence has a convergent subsequence, with limit inside the set.
To check if a set in a metric space is compact, any one of the above criteria may be used.
With this in mind, sequential compactness is readily seen to not hold for the given set, since ${frac 1n}$ is a sequence in $A$, which has no convergent subsequence in $A$, since the sequence, and therefore every subsequence, converges to $0$ in the metric space topology , but $0 notin (0,infty)$, so the fact is that no subsequence of $A$ is convergent. Therefore, $A$ is not compact.
For using the other definition, we note that open sets in $(0,infty)$ are the intersection of $(0,infty)$ with usual open sets in $mathbb R$. So, since $A$ is not compact in $mathbb R$ (it does not contain the limit point $0$, so is not closed), so there is an open(in $mathbb R$) cover of $A$ having no finite subcover. Taking the intersection of all these open sets with $(0,infty)$ gives us an open (in $(0,infty)$) cover of $A$ which has no finite subcover. Thus, even via a direct means of attack we can contradict compactness of $A$.
Note that $A$ is closed in $(0,infty)$, since it has no limit points, and $A$ is bounded. However, $A$ is not compact.
answered Nov 18 at 16:18
астон вілла олоф мэллбэрг
36.8k33376
36.8k33376
1
A pleasure to read!
– Peter Szilas
Nov 18 at 16:54
@PeterSzilas Thank you!
– астон вілла олоф мэллбэрг
Nov 18 at 23:34
add a comment |
1
A pleasure to read!
– Peter Szilas
Nov 18 at 16:54
@PeterSzilas Thank you!
– астон вілла олоф мэллбэрг
Nov 18 at 23:34
1
1
A pleasure to read!
– Peter Szilas
Nov 18 at 16:54
A pleasure to read!
– Peter Szilas
Nov 18 at 16:54
@PeterSzilas Thank you!
– астон вілла олоф мэллбэрг
Nov 18 at 23:34
@PeterSzilas Thank you!
– астон вілла олоф мэллбэрг
Nov 18 at 23:34
add a comment |
up vote
3
down vote
As you have correctly observed, $A$ is closed (as a subspace of $(0,infty)$) since its complement is an open subset of $(0,infty)$.
On the other hand, $A$ is not compact. In particular, the sequence $(frac 1n)_{n in Bbb N}$ is a sequence in $A$ that has no convergent subsequence (since $0$, the sequence's limit in $Bbb R$, is not in $A$).
I get your answer but as A is bounded and closed why doesn't it follow that it is compact? That's the thing that confuses me .
– user15269
Nov 18 at 16:09
3
@user15269 Because the "bounded and closed" criterium applies to subsets of $mathbb{R}^n$, not subsets of $(0,infty)$.
– freakish
Nov 18 at 16:09
@freakish quick heads up: the word you're looking for is "criterion" rather than criterium. Thanks for the comment though
– Omnomnomnom
Nov 18 at 20:08
@Omnomnomnom of course, thanks for noticing the mistake.
– freakish
Nov 18 at 20:10
add a comment |
up vote
3
down vote
As you have correctly observed, $A$ is closed (as a subspace of $(0,infty)$) since its complement is an open subset of $(0,infty)$.
On the other hand, $A$ is not compact. In particular, the sequence $(frac 1n)_{n in Bbb N}$ is a sequence in $A$ that has no convergent subsequence (since $0$, the sequence's limit in $Bbb R$, is not in $A$).
I get your answer but as A is bounded and closed why doesn't it follow that it is compact? That's the thing that confuses me .
– user15269
Nov 18 at 16:09
3
@user15269 Because the "bounded and closed" criterium applies to subsets of $mathbb{R}^n$, not subsets of $(0,infty)$.
– freakish
Nov 18 at 16:09
@freakish quick heads up: the word you're looking for is "criterion" rather than criterium. Thanks for the comment though
– Omnomnomnom
Nov 18 at 20:08
@Omnomnomnom of course, thanks for noticing the mistake.
– freakish
Nov 18 at 20:10
add a comment |
up vote
3
down vote
up vote
3
down vote
As you have correctly observed, $A$ is closed (as a subspace of $(0,infty)$) since its complement is an open subset of $(0,infty)$.
On the other hand, $A$ is not compact. In particular, the sequence $(frac 1n)_{n in Bbb N}$ is a sequence in $A$ that has no convergent subsequence (since $0$, the sequence's limit in $Bbb R$, is not in $A$).
As you have correctly observed, $A$ is closed (as a subspace of $(0,infty)$) since its complement is an open subset of $(0,infty)$.
On the other hand, $A$ is not compact. In particular, the sequence $(frac 1n)_{n in Bbb N}$ is a sequence in $A$ that has no convergent subsequence (since $0$, the sequence's limit in $Bbb R$, is not in $A$).
answered Nov 18 at 16:00
Omnomnomnom
125k788176
125k788176
I get your answer but as A is bounded and closed why doesn't it follow that it is compact? That's the thing that confuses me .
– user15269
Nov 18 at 16:09
3
@user15269 Because the "bounded and closed" criterium applies to subsets of $mathbb{R}^n$, not subsets of $(0,infty)$.
– freakish
Nov 18 at 16:09
@freakish quick heads up: the word you're looking for is "criterion" rather than criterium. Thanks for the comment though
– Omnomnomnom
Nov 18 at 20:08
@Omnomnomnom of course, thanks for noticing the mistake.
– freakish
Nov 18 at 20:10
add a comment |
I get your answer but as A is bounded and closed why doesn't it follow that it is compact? That's the thing that confuses me .
– user15269
Nov 18 at 16:09
3
@user15269 Because the "bounded and closed" criterium applies to subsets of $mathbb{R}^n$, not subsets of $(0,infty)$.
– freakish
Nov 18 at 16:09
@freakish quick heads up: the word you're looking for is "criterion" rather than criterium. Thanks for the comment though
– Omnomnomnom
Nov 18 at 20:08
@Omnomnomnom of course, thanks for noticing the mistake.
– freakish
Nov 18 at 20:10
I get your answer but as A is bounded and closed why doesn't it follow that it is compact? That's the thing that confuses me .
– user15269
Nov 18 at 16:09
I get your answer but as A is bounded and closed why doesn't it follow that it is compact? That's the thing that confuses me .
– user15269
Nov 18 at 16:09
3
3
@user15269 Because the "bounded and closed" criterium applies to subsets of $mathbb{R}^n$, not subsets of $(0,infty)$.
– freakish
Nov 18 at 16:09
@user15269 Because the "bounded and closed" criterium applies to subsets of $mathbb{R}^n$, not subsets of $(0,infty)$.
– freakish
Nov 18 at 16:09
@freakish quick heads up: the word you're looking for is "criterion" rather than criterium. Thanks for the comment though
– Omnomnomnom
Nov 18 at 20:08
@freakish quick heads up: the word you're looking for is "criterion" rather than criterium. Thanks for the comment though
– Omnomnomnom
Nov 18 at 20:08
@Omnomnomnom of course, thanks for noticing the mistake.
– freakish
Nov 18 at 20:10
@Omnomnomnom of course, thanks for noticing the mistake.
– freakish
Nov 18 at 20:10
add a comment |
up vote
2
down vote
It's closed as its complement is just
$$bigcup_{nin mathbb{N}}left(frac1{n+1},frac1nright)cup(1,+infty)$$
which is a union of open sets.
For compactness, see @Omnomnomnom's answer.
add a comment |
up vote
2
down vote
It's closed as its complement is just
$$bigcup_{nin mathbb{N}}left(frac1{n+1},frac1nright)cup(1,+infty)$$
which is a union of open sets.
For compactness, see @Omnomnomnom's answer.
add a comment |
up vote
2
down vote
up vote
2
down vote
It's closed as its complement is just
$$bigcup_{nin mathbb{N}}left(frac1{n+1},frac1nright)cup(1,+infty)$$
which is a union of open sets.
For compactness, see @Omnomnomnom's answer.
It's closed as its complement is just
$$bigcup_{nin mathbb{N}}left(frac1{n+1},frac1nright)cup(1,+infty)$$
which is a union of open sets.
For compactness, see @Omnomnomnom's answer.
answered Nov 18 at 16:03
b00n heT
10.2k12134
10.2k12134
add a comment |
add a comment |
up vote
2
down vote
One of the other answers has already used the sequential definition of compactness, so here is a way to think about why $A$ not compact using the open cover definition. For each $frac{1}{n}$, we can consider the open ball of radius $epsilon = min big{ frac{1}{n} - frac{1}{n+1}, frac{1}{n-1} - frac{1}{n}big}$. The collection of these open balls forms an open cover of $A = big{ frac{1}{n} : n in mathbb{N}big}$, yet each open ball contains only one element of $A$. Therefore, this (infinite) open cover does not admit a finite subcover, so $A$ is not compact.
add a comment |
up vote
2
down vote
One of the other answers has already used the sequential definition of compactness, so here is a way to think about why $A$ not compact using the open cover definition. For each $frac{1}{n}$, we can consider the open ball of radius $epsilon = min big{ frac{1}{n} - frac{1}{n+1}, frac{1}{n-1} - frac{1}{n}big}$. The collection of these open balls forms an open cover of $A = big{ frac{1}{n} : n in mathbb{N}big}$, yet each open ball contains only one element of $A$. Therefore, this (infinite) open cover does not admit a finite subcover, so $A$ is not compact.
add a comment |
up vote
2
down vote
up vote
2
down vote
One of the other answers has already used the sequential definition of compactness, so here is a way to think about why $A$ not compact using the open cover definition. For each $frac{1}{n}$, we can consider the open ball of radius $epsilon = min big{ frac{1}{n} - frac{1}{n+1}, frac{1}{n-1} - frac{1}{n}big}$. The collection of these open balls forms an open cover of $A = big{ frac{1}{n} : n in mathbb{N}big}$, yet each open ball contains only one element of $A$. Therefore, this (infinite) open cover does not admit a finite subcover, so $A$ is not compact.
One of the other answers has already used the sequential definition of compactness, so here is a way to think about why $A$ not compact using the open cover definition. For each $frac{1}{n}$, we can consider the open ball of radius $epsilon = min big{ frac{1}{n} - frac{1}{n+1}, frac{1}{n-1} - frac{1}{n}big}$. The collection of these open balls forms an open cover of $A = big{ frac{1}{n} : n in mathbb{N}big}$, yet each open ball contains only one element of $A$. Therefore, this (infinite) open cover does not admit a finite subcover, so $A$ is not compact.
edited Nov 18 at 17:42
answered Nov 18 at 16:09
Eric Chuu
566
566
add a comment |
add a comment |
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1
I'm the langle rangle fairy, here to let you know that $langle, rangle$ plays nicer with TeX than $<, >$ does :)
– Patrick Stevens
Nov 18 at 15:53
2
What does $langle 0, +infty rangle$ denote? Is it $[0,+infty)$ or $(0,+infty)$?
– Jimmy R.
Nov 18 at 15:55
it's $(0, +infty)$
– user15269
Nov 18 at 15:57