Jtdylktuy

With black magic you can do amazing thing, including bewitching people senses for example to see thing, hear thing and feel certain sensation whether emotionally of physically. Often when a Prophet was sent to his people, they accused him of Magic; for example, Pharaoh and his chiefs accused Moses of being a Magician and the Egyptians followed them. And they treated the sign of God with arrogance and called Moses a liar. Well, Jesus raised the dead, healed those born blind and a leper. He even made birds out of clay and gave them life. And people witnessed these signs and miracles. Do Jews consider these miracles as black magic?

(Anyone that anserwer this question, could you not use in your argument that Christians consider Jesus to be God/divine and that is the reason for not accepting him. I do not consider Jesus to be God/divine.)

The miracles Jesus preformed cannot be preformed by magic, it simply is not possible. You cannot raise the dead, heal those born blind or the leaper by magic. Jesus even made out of clay birds and gave them life. And people witnessed these signs and miracles.

You started this off with a huge swath of assumptions which can easily be disproven by the Torah.

Firstly, You can do all of these things with black magic, at least the Torah tells us it is possible and forbidden. The Torah specifically warns against a spectrum of dark arts, idolatries, and witchcrafts which all fall into this category.

Let no one be found among you who consigns his son or daughter to the fire, or who is an augur, a soothsayer, a diviner, a sorcerer,one who casts spells, or one who consults ghosts or familiar spirits, or one who inquires of the dead. (Deut 18:11)

The Oral Torah explains that this also involves the raising of the dead (or Necromancy) Rashi specifically touched upon this.

Rashi: "or a charmer"
One who collects snakes, scorpions or other creatures to one place.
"a pithom sorcerer" - one who raises the [spirit of the] dead, and it speaks from his [the sorcerer’s] armpit.
"a yido’a sorcerer" - one who inserts a bone of the animal called yido’a into his mouth, and the bone speaks by means of sorcery.
"or a necromancer" As, for example, one who raises [the dead spirit] upon his membrum, or one who consults a skull. (Source)

You cited the story of Jesus molding a dove from clay and animating it to life. This is a known concept in the mystical traditions and it relates to the sages having discovered divine processes for animating life into clay. The Golem of Prague being one of the more famous stories of such a creature.

Jesus did nothing that distinguished himself from various other figures beyond presenting himself as a false fulfillment of the Mashiach prophecy and declaring himself God in flesh. Miracles are miracles and they all belong to Hashem regardless of whose hand is used. Dark magic is dark magic regardless of what you use it for and to who's benefit.

Beyond that point, we know for a fact that the writings of the New Testament were written hundreds of years after Jesus walked the earth.

The earliest manuscript that exists is dated 150-250 years after Jesus. This being from a book which was rehashed and edited so many times that King James organized a council to formulate a "finalized" and uniform version of the book in 1611. (Seriously, 1611)

The Council of Nicea (325 CE) (which canonized the NT) edited out various other writings and contradictory narratives and books in order to create a uniform text. So many different folks had no many different interpretations and themes of what exactly Jesus was and what he did that they had to have the church literally hand-pick what stayed and what went.

• Jesus was claimed to have communed with an army of dragons in a deleted bible story. (The Gospel of Pseudo-Matthew, Chapter 18)




• Jesus straight up murdered a child. (Infancy Gospel of Thomas 4:1)




• Jesus convinced a snake which had bitten a child to suck out its poison. (First Gospel of Infancy 18:13-16)

So can you see my issue with the claim of "Look at the amazing things that Jesus did! Look at everyone who witnessed this! It has to mean something!"

But then you ignore the fact that if the original New Testament hadn't have been edited in the first place, You'd have a Jesus who was a dragon taming, snake speaking, child killing, whatever. We know nothing about Jesus beyond his name and beyond what the Rabbis spoke about him. The New Testament is a mishmash of conflicting stories and eyewitness accounts and themes which not couldn't give a clear picture of what Jesus was thematically but also blatantly misquoted the Torah to meet its own needs.

“For they did not continue in My covenant and I did not care[9] for
them…” [Hebrews 8:9]

“My covenant which they broke, although I was a husband to them…”
[Jeremiah 31:32]

(Source)

This question you have asked is not specific to Jesus. Why not ask the same question about other "miracle-workers" throughout time? Although flipping the question doesn't necessarily answer it, it does help us get somewhere. I ask you this: what do Christians think of the "miracles" of Mohammad? The answer is that since Christians reject the validity of the Qur'an, they also reject the validity of the miracles recorded within.

Since Judaism does not accept the New Testament as valid, the miracles within the New Testament are rejected as well. We don't have to say they were "black magic" because we believe they never happened.

Avri’s answer is correct and much more detailed than mine. However, there is one opinion that does indeed say that Jesus could have been guilty of witchcraft.

Tosfos to Sanhedrin 37b DH miyom shecharav ask why the Gemara says that “even after the Beis HaMikdash was destroyed” the judgement of the four death penalties is still carried out by G-d through other means; the Sanhedrin voluntarily gave up the ability to administer the death penalty forty years earlier, so why does the Gemara day only once the Beis HaMikdash was destroyed? About halfway into the piece, they write:

וי״ל מ״מ כשהיו רואים צורך שעה היו חוזרים ללשכת הגזית כי ההיא עובדא

And there is to say that, nevertheless, when they would see that there was a need, they would return to the Lishkas HaGazis [to administer the death penalty], like in “that incident.”

Tosfos seem to be referring to a censored story on 43a; you can find this story in Oz v’Hadar, New Vilna, and Sefaria.

What’s the reason I bring up this Tosfos? Because from the fact that they insist that this story took place during those forty years - from 30 CE to 70 CE, give or take - indicates that the ישו mentioned therein may be Jesus according to them, who was killed in 34 CE.

The relevant quote from 43a is as follows:

בערב הפסח תלאוהו לישו והכרוז יוצא לפניו מ' יום ישו יוצא ליסקל על שכישף והסית והדיח את ישראל כל מי שיודע לו זכות יבא וילמד עליו ולא מצאו לו זכות ותלאוהו בערב הפסח

On Erev Pesach, they hanged Yeshu. The announcer went before him 40 days [and announced]: “Yeshu is going to be stoned on that he committed witchcraft, that he enticed [to sin], and that he enticed [to idolatry]. Whoever knows a merit for him, come and say it for him.” They did not find a merit, and he was hanged on Erev Pesach.

I should emphasize: most opinions disagree with this reading of the story, saying emphatically that Yeshu as used here is not Jesus, on the grounds that it was after the Sanhedrin stopped administering the death penalty. With Tosfos opening the door, it’s certainly possible that the answer to your question is yes.

https://youtu.be/ZQgtCO6RJOM

This shiur by Rabbi Yehoshua Zitron says that there is not a single evidence that jesus ever existed. And for the miracles, not a witness was ever cited in the so called "New Testament"

There is a story about a person, who may or may not be THE Jesus*, who used to hang around the Temple. Somehow he got into the Holy of Holies while the Kohen Gadol was doing the Yom Kippur service. He may have been using a pulley operated maintenance box. He heard the Kohen say a powerful name of God. The trick is, only when the Kohen is in the inspired state inside the room does he know the word. Jesus carved it into his arm and took the word outside and did miracles with it. Thus J did use magic.

*Just like the third guy (Onkelos) in the story with Titus and Bilam may or may not be Jesus but probably is. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Onkelos)