Equivalence of definitions of a closed set












0












$begingroup$


So I am working through some problems on my own and ran into one I have a question about. It is as follows. Let $(X_1,tau_1)$ and $(X_2,tau_2)$ be topological spaces, show that a set is closed iff whenever ${x_gamma}_{gammainGamma}subseteq A$ with $x_gammarightarrow xin X$ then $xin A.$ I don't see how to use the hint that $mathcal{U}(x)={Uintau_1:xin U}$ form a directed set with $Uleq V$ implying $Vsubseteq U$. Any help pointing me in the right direction would be appreciated.



Attempt: Suppose that whenever ${x_gamma}_{gammainGamma}subseteq A$ with $x_gammarightarrow xin X$ then $xin A.$ For all $xin X_1$ s.t. $xnotin A$
(i.e. $xin A^C$) we have that $x$ is not a limit point of $A$. Hence, $A^C$ is a neighborhood of $x$. Now we only need that $A^C$ is open, which is true since it is a neighborhood of all its points as $x$ was arbitrary. This should give us the first direction. I don't see how to get the other direction based using the provided hint.










share|cite|improve this question











$endgroup$












  • $begingroup$
    What have you tried so far? What is your definition of closed?
    $endgroup$
    – Dave
    Dec 31 '18 at 1:09










  • $begingroup$
    I'm having trouble seeing where to start. I am using the definition that the complement is open.
    $endgroup$
    – Scott
    Dec 31 '18 at 1:13










  • $begingroup$
    Is your definition of closed the following: A set is closed iff it’s complement is open. If this is the definition you’re using then it’ll be quite easy to show what you want.
    $endgroup$
    – John Mitchell
    Dec 31 '18 at 1:13










  • $begingroup$
    I know it shouldn't be difficult, but for some reason it just isn't clicking...
    $endgroup$
    – Scott
    Dec 31 '18 at 1:22










  • $begingroup$
    It seems that $X_1$ and $X_2$ play no role in the problem.
    $endgroup$
    – Keenan Kidwell
    Dec 31 '18 at 2:25
















0












$begingroup$


So I am working through some problems on my own and ran into one I have a question about. It is as follows. Let $(X_1,tau_1)$ and $(X_2,tau_2)$ be topological spaces, show that a set is closed iff whenever ${x_gamma}_{gammainGamma}subseteq A$ with $x_gammarightarrow xin X$ then $xin A.$ I don't see how to use the hint that $mathcal{U}(x)={Uintau_1:xin U}$ form a directed set with $Uleq V$ implying $Vsubseteq U$. Any help pointing me in the right direction would be appreciated.



Attempt: Suppose that whenever ${x_gamma}_{gammainGamma}subseteq A$ with $x_gammarightarrow xin X$ then $xin A.$ For all $xin X_1$ s.t. $xnotin A$
(i.e. $xin A^C$) we have that $x$ is not a limit point of $A$. Hence, $A^C$ is a neighborhood of $x$. Now we only need that $A^C$ is open, which is true since it is a neighborhood of all its points as $x$ was arbitrary. This should give us the first direction. I don't see how to get the other direction based using the provided hint.










share|cite|improve this question











$endgroup$












  • $begingroup$
    What have you tried so far? What is your definition of closed?
    $endgroup$
    – Dave
    Dec 31 '18 at 1:09










  • $begingroup$
    I'm having trouble seeing where to start. I am using the definition that the complement is open.
    $endgroup$
    – Scott
    Dec 31 '18 at 1:13










  • $begingroup$
    Is your definition of closed the following: A set is closed iff it’s complement is open. If this is the definition you’re using then it’ll be quite easy to show what you want.
    $endgroup$
    – John Mitchell
    Dec 31 '18 at 1:13










  • $begingroup$
    I know it shouldn't be difficult, but for some reason it just isn't clicking...
    $endgroup$
    – Scott
    Dec 31 '18 at 1:22










  • $begingroup$
    It seems that $X_1$ and $X_2$ play no role in the problem.
    $endgroup$
    – Keenan Kidwell
    Dec 31 '18 at 2:25














0












0








0





$begingroup$


So I am working through some problems on my own and ran into one I have a question about. It is as follows. Let $(X_1,tau_1)$ and $(X_2,tau_2)$ be topological spaces, show that a set is closed iff whenever ${x_gamma}_{gammainGamma}subseteq A$ with $x_gammarightarrow xin X$ then $xin A.$ I don't see how to use the hint that $mathcal{U}(x)={Uintau_1:xin U}$ form a directed set with $Uleq V$ implying $Vsubseteq U$. Any help pointing me in the right direction would be appreciated.



Attempt: Suppose that whenever ${x_gamma}_{gammainGamma}subseteq A$ with $x_gammarightarrow xin X$ then $xin A.$ For all $xin X_1$ s.t. $xnotin A$
(i.e. $xin A^C$) we have that $x$ is not a limit point of $A$. Hence, $A^C$ is a neighborhood of $x$. Now we only need that $A^C$ is open, which is true since it is a neighborhood of all its points as $x$ was arbitrary. This should give us the first direction. I don't see how to get the other direction based using the provided hint.










share|cite|improve this question











$endgroup$




So I am working through some problems on my own and ran into one I have a question about. It is as follows. Let $(X_1,tau_1)$ and $(X_2,tau_2)$ be topological spaces, show that a set is closed iff whenever ${x_gamma}_{gammainGamma}subseteq A$ with $x_gammarightarrow xin X$ then $xin A.$ I don't see how to use the hint that $mathcal{U}(x)={Uintau_1:xin U}$ form a directed set with $Uleq V$ implying $Vsubseteq U$. Any help pointing me in the right direction would be appreciated.



Attempt: Suppose that whenever ${x_gamma}_{gammainGamma}subseteq A$ with $x_gammarightarrow xin X$ then $xin A.$ For all $xin X_1$ s.t. $xnotin A$
(i.e. $xin A^C$) we have that $x$ is not a limit point of $A$. Hence, $A^C$ is a neighborhood of $x$. Now we only need that $A^C$ is open, which is true since it is a neighborhood of all its points as $x$ was arbitrary. This should give us the first direction. I don't see how to get the other direction based using the provided hint.







general-topology






share|cite|improve this question















share|cite|improve this question













share|cite|improve this question




share|cite|improve this question








edited Dec 31 '18 at 1:34







Scott

















asked Dec 31 '18 at 1:08









ScottScott

38918




38918












  • $begingroup$
    What have you tried so far? What is your definition of closed?
    $endgroup$
    – Dave
    Dec 31 '18 at 1:09










  • $begingroup$
    I'm having trouble seeing where to start. I am using the definition that the complement is open.
    $endgroup$
    – Scott
    Dec 31 '18 at 1:13










  • $begingroup$
    Is your definition of closed the following: A set is closed iff it’s complement is open. If this is the definition you’re using then it’ll be quite easy to show what you want.
    $endgroup$
    – John Mitchell
    Dec 31 '18 at 1:13










  • $begingroup$
    I know it shouldn't be difficult, but for some reason it just isn't clicking...
    $endgroup$
    – Scott
    Dec 31 '18 at 1:22










  • $begingroup$
    It seems that $X_1$ and $X_2$ play no role in the problem.
    $endgroup$
    – Keenan Kidwell
    Dec 31 '18 at 2:25


















  • $begingroup$
    What have you tried so far? What is your definition of closed?
    $endgroup$
    – Dave
    Dec 31 '18 at 1:09










  • $begingroup$
    I'm having trouble seeing where to start. I am using the definition that the complement is open.
    $endgroup$
    – Scott
    Dec 31 '18 at 1:13










  • $begingroup$
    Is your definition of closed the following: A set is closed iff it’s complement is open. If this is the definition you’re using then it’ll be quite easy to show what you want.
    $endgroup$
    – John Mitchell
    Dec 31 '18 at 1:13










  • $begingroup$
    I know it shouldn't be difficult, but for some reason it just isn't clicking...
    $endgroup$
    – Scott
    Dec 31 '18 at 1:22










  • $begingroup$
    It seems that $X_1$ and $X_2$ play no role in the problem.
    $endgroup$
    – Keenan Kidwell
    Dec 31 '18 at 2:25
















$begingroup$
What have you tried so far? What is your definition of closed?
$endgroup$
– Dave
Dec 31 '18 at 1:09




$begingroup$
What have you tried so far? What is your definition of closed?
$endgroup$
– Dave
Dec 31 '18 at 1:09












$begingroup$
I'm having trouble seeing where to start. I am using the definition that the complement is open.
$endgroup$
– Scott
Dec 31 '18 at 1:13




$begingroup$
I'm having trouble seeing where to start. I am using the definition that the complement is open.
$endgroup$
– Scott
Dec 31 '18 at 1:13












$begingroup$
Is your definition of closed the following: A set is closed iff it’s complement is open. If this is the definition you’re using then it’ll be quite easy to show what you want.
$endgroup$
– John Mitchell
Dec 31 '18 at 1:13




$begingroup$
Is your definition of closed the following: A set is closed iff it’s complement is open. If this is the definition you’re using then it’ll be quite easy to show what you want.
$endgroup$
– John Mitchell
Dec 31 '18 at 1:13












$begingroup$
I know it shouldn't be difficult, but for some reason it just isn't clicking...
$endgroup$
– Scott
Dec 31 '18 at 1:22




$begingroup$
I know it shouldn't be difficult, but for some reason it just isn't clicking...
$endgroup$
– Scott
Dec 31 '18 at 1:22












$begingroup$
It seems that $X_1$ and $X_2$ play no role in the problem.
$endgroup$
– Keenan Kidwell
Dec 31 '18 at 2:25




$begingroup$
It seems that $X_1$ and $X_2$ play no role in the problem.
$endgroup$
– Keenan Kidwell
Dec 31 '18 at 2:25










2 Answers
2






active

oldest

votes


















0












$begingroup$

Assume A closed. Let n be a net into A that converges to a.

To show a in A use the theorem for closed A

x in A iff for all open U nhood x, U $cap$ A not empty

and some facts about convergence of nets to show x in A.



Conversely, to prove A is closed, show

if for all open U nhood x, U $cap$ A not empty, then x in A.

So assume for all open U nhood x, U $cap$ A not empty.

Use the hint to construct a net into A that converges to x

and with that conclude x in A.






share|cite|improve this answer









$endgroup$





















    0












    $begingroup$

    You define $C$ to be closed if it’s complement is open. But the net convergence equivalent is easier proved using the following equivalent definition:




    $C$ is closed iff for all $x in X$: if every open set $O$ that contains $x$ intersects $C$, then $x in C$.




    Given this, suppose $C$ obeys the net convergence condition. Suppose that $x$ is a point such that every open neighbourhood of $x$ intersects $C$. Then we can apply the hint: define $Gamma$ be the directed set $mathcal{U}(x)$ under reverse inclusion, and pick (by the assumption on $x$ this is possible) a point $x(U) in C cap U$ for every $U in mathcal{U}(x)$. Then this defined a net: $x: Gamma to X$ where all values lie in $C$ by construction and also $x_gamma to x$: let $O$ be any open subset that contains $x$ and note that $O in Gamma$ and if $U ge O$ we have that $U subseteq O$ and so $x(U) in U subseteq O$, so $x(U) in O$. So this shows convergence. By the net convergence condition we can thus conclude $x in C$ and we are done with one direction.



    Suppose $C$ is closed and let $x: Gamma to X$ be any net with values in $C$ such that it converges to $p in X$. Then every open neighbourhood of $p$ contains a point of the net (by convergence to $p$) so in particular a point of $C$. By the equivalent formulation of closedness we see that $p in C$ and so $C$ obeys the net convergence condition.






    share|cite|improve this answer









    $endgroup$













      Your Answer





      StackExchange.ifUsing("editor", function () {
      return StackExchange.using("mathjaxEditing", function () {
      StackExchange.MarkdownEditor.creationCallbacks.add(function (editor, postfix) {
      StackExchange.mathjaxEditing.prepareWmdForMathJax(editor, postfix, [["$", "$"], ["\\(","\\)"]]);
      });
      });
      }, "mathjax-editing");

      StackExchange.ready(function() {
      var channelOptions = {
      tags: "".split(" "),
      id: "69"
      };
      initTagRenderer("".split(" "), "".split(" "), channelOptions);

      StackExchange.using("externalEditor", function() {
      // Have to fire editor after snippets, if snippets enabled
      if (StackExchange.settings.snippets.snippetsEnabled) {
      StackExchange.using("snippets", function() {
      createEditor();
      });
      }
      else {
      createEditor();
      }
      });

      function createEditor() {
      StackExchange.prepareEditor({
      heartbeatType: 'answer',
      autoActivateHeartbeat: false,
      convertImagesToLinks: true,
      noModals: true,
      showLowRepImageUploadWarning: true,
      reputationToPostImages: 10,
      bindNavPrevention: true,
      postfix: "",
      imageUploader: {
      brandingHtml: "Powered by u003ca class="icon-imgur-white" href="https://imgur.com/"u003eu003c/au003e",
      contentPolicyHtml: "User contributions licensed under u003ca href="https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/3.0/"u003ecc by-sa 3.0 with attribution requiredu003c/au003e u003ca href="https://stackoverflow.com/legal/content-policy"u003e(content policy)u003c/au003e",
      allowUrls: true
      },
      noCode: true, onDemand: true,
      discardSelector: ".discard-answer"
      ,immediatelyShowMarkdownHelp:true
      });


      }
      });














      draft saved

      draft discarded


















      StackExchange.ready(
      function () {
      StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2fmath.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f3057347%2fequivalence-of-definitions-of-a-closed-set%23new-answer', 'question_page');
      }
      );

      Post as a guest















      Required, but never shown

























      2 Answers
      2






      active

      oldest

      votes








      2 Answers
      2






      active

      oldest

      votes









      active

      oldest

      votes






      active

      oldest

      votes









      0












      $begingroup$

      Assume A closed. Let n be a net into A that converges to a.

      To show a in A use the theorem for closed A

      x in A iff for all open U nhood x, U $cap$ A not empty

      and some facts about convergence of nets to show x in A.



      Conversely, to prove A is closed, show

      if for all open U nhood x, U $cap$ A not empty, then x in A.

      So assume for all open U nhood x, U $cap$ A not empty.

      Use the hint to construct a net into A that converges to x

      and with that conclude x in A.






      share|cite|improve this answer









      $endgroup$


















        0












        $begingroup$

        Assume A closed. Let n be a net into A that converges to a.

        To show a in A use the theorem for closed A

        x in A iff for all open U nhood x, U $cap$ A not empty

        and some facts about convergence of nets to show x in A.



        Conversely, to prove A is closed, show

        if for all open U nhood x, U $cap$ A not empty, then x in A.

        So assume for all open U nhood x, U $cap$ A not empty.

        Use the hint to construct a net into A that converges to x

        and with that conclude x in A.






        share|cite|improve this answer









        $endgroup$
















          0












          0








          0





          $begingroup$

          Assume A closed. Let n be a net into A that converges to a.

          To show a in A use the theorem for closed A

          x in A iff for all open U nhood x, U $cap$ A not empty

          and some facts about convergence of nets to show x in A.



          Conversely, to prove A is closed, show

          if for all open U nhood x, U $cap$ A not empty, then x in A.

          So assume for all open U nhood x, U $cap$ A not empty.

          Use the hint to construct a net into A that converges to x

          and with that conclude x in A.






          share|cite|improve this answer









          $endgroup$



          Assume A closed. Let n be a net into A that converges to a.

          To show a in A use the theorem for closed A

          x in A iff for all open U nhood x, U $cap$ A not empty

          and some facts about convergence of nets to show x in A.



          Conversely, to prove A is closed, show

          if for all open U nhood x, U $cap$ A not empty, then x in A.

          So assume for all open U nhood x, U $cap$ A not empty.

          Use the hint to construct a net into A that converges to x

          and with that conclude x in A.







          share|cite|improve this answer












          share|cite|improve this answer



          share|cite|improve this answer










          answered Dec 31 '18 at 1:59









          William ElliotWilliam Elliot

          8,8232820




          8,8232820























              0












              $begingroup$

              You define $C$ to be closed if it’s complement is open. But the net convergence equivalent is easier proved using the following equivalent definition:




              $C$ is closed iff for all $x in X$: if every open set $O$ that contains $x$ intersects $C$, then $x in C$.




              Given this, suppose $C$ obeys the net convergence condition. Suppose that $x$ is a point such that every open neighbourhood of $x$ intersects $C$. Then we can apply the hint: define $Gamma$ be the directed set $mathcal{U}(x)$ under reverse inclusion, and pick (by the assumption on $x$ this is possible) a point $x(U) in C cap U$ for every $U in mathcal{U}(x)$. Then this defined a net: $x: Gamma to X$ where all values lie in $C$ by construction and also $x_gamma to x$: let $O$ be any open subset that contains $x$ and note that $O in Gamma$ and if $U ge O$ we have that $U subseteq O$ and so $x(U) in U subseteq O$, so $x(U) in O$. So this shows convergence. By the net convergence condition we can thus conclude $x in C$ and we are done with one direction.



              Suppose $C$ is closed and let $x: Gamma to X$ be any net with values in $C$ such that it converges to $p in X$. Then every open neighbourhood of $p$ contains a point of the net (by convergence to $p$) so in particular a point of $C$. By the equivalent formulation of closedness we see that $p in C$ and so $C$ obeys the net convergence condition.






              share|cite|improve this answer









              $endgroup$


















                0












                $begingroup$

                You define $C$ to be closed if it’s complement is open. But the net convergence equivalent is easier proved using the following equivalent definition:




                $C$ is closed iff for all $x in X$: if every open set $O$ that contains $x$ intersects $C$, then $x in C$.




                Given this, suppose $C$ obeys the net convergence condition. Suppose that $x$ is a point such that every open neighbourhood of $x$ intersects $C$. Then we can apply the hint: define $Gamma$ be the directed set $mathcal{U}(x)$ under reverse inclusion, and pick (by the assumption on $x$ this is possible) a point $x(U) in C cap U$ for every $U in mathcal{U}(x)$. Then this defined a net: $x: Gamma to X$ where all values lie in $C$ by construction and also $x_gamma to x$: let $O$ be any open subset that contains $x$ and note that $O in Gamma$ and if $U ge O$ we have that $U subseteq O$ and so $x(U) in U subseteq O$, so $x(U) in O$. So this shows convergence. By the net convergence condition we can thus conclude $x in C$ and we are done with one direction.



                Suppose $C$ is closed and let $x: Gamma to X$ be any net with values in $C$ such that it converges to $p in X$. Then every open neighbourhood of $p$ contains a point of the net (by convergence to $p$) so in particular a point of $C$. By the equivalent formulation of closedness we see that $p in C$ and so $C$ obeys the net convergence condition.






                share|cite|improve this answer









                $endgroup$
















                  0












                  0








                  0





                  $begingroup$

                  You define $C$ to be closed if it’s complement is open. But the net convergence equivalent is easier proved using the following equivalent definition:




                  $C$ is closed iff for all $x in X$: if every open set $O$ that contains $x$ intersects $C$, then $x in C$.




                  Given this, suppose $C$ obeys the net convergence condition. Suppose that $x$ is a point such that every open neighbourhood of $x$ intersects $C$. Then we can apply the hint: define $Gamma$ be the directed set $mathcal{U}(x)$ under reverse inclusion, and pick (by the assumption on $x$ this is possible) a point $x(U) in C cap U$ for every $U in mathcal{U}(x)$. Then this defined a net: $x: Gamma to X$ where all values lie in $C$ by construction and also $x_gamma to x$: let $O$ be any open subset that contains $x$ and note that $O in Gamma$ and if $U ge O$ we have that $U subseteq O$ and so $x(U) in U subseteq O$, so $x(U) in O$. So this shows convergence. By the net convergence condition we can thus conclude $x in C$ and we are done with one direction.



                  Suppose $C$ is closed and let $x: Gamma to X$ be any net with values in $C$ such that it converges to $p in X$. Then every open neighbourhood of $p$ contains a point of the net (by convergence to $p$) so in particular a point of $C$. By the equivalent formulation of closedness we see that $p in C$ and so $C$ obeys the net convergence condition.






                  share|cite|improve this answer









                  $endgroup$



                  You define $C$ to be closed if it’s complement is open. But the net convergence equivalent is easier proved using the following equivalent definition:




                  $C$ is closed iff for all $x in X$: if every open set $O$ that contains $x$ intersects $C$, then $x in C$.




                  Given this, suppose $C$ obeys the net convergence condition. Suppose that $x$ is a point such that every open neighbourhood of $x$ intersects $C$. Then we can apply the hint: define $Gamma$ be the directed set $mathcal{U}(x)$ under reverse inclusion, and pick (by the assumption on $x$ this is possible) a point $x(U) in C cap U$ for every $U in mathcal{U}(x)$. Then this defined a net: $x: Gamma to X$ where all values lie in $C$ by construction and also $x_gamma to x$: let $O$ be any open subset that contains $x$ and note that $O in Gamma$ and if $U ge O$ we have that $U subseteq O$ and so $x(U) in U subseteq O$, so $x(U) in O$. So this shows convergence. By the net convergence condition we can thus conclude $x in C$ and we are done with one direction.



                  Suppose $C$ is closed and let $x: Gamma to X$ be any net with values in $C$ such that it converges to $p in X$. Then every open neighbourhood of $p$ contains a point of the net (by convergence to $p$) so in particular a point of $C$. By the equivalent formulation of closedness we see that $p in C$ and so $C$ obeys the net convergence condition.







                  share|cite|improve this answer












                  share|cite|improve this answer



                  share|cite|improve this answer










                  answered Dec 31 '18 at 13:07









                  Henno BrandsmaHenno Brandsma

                  114k348123




                  114k348123






























                      draft saved

                      draft discarded




















































                      Thanks for contributing an answer to Mathematics Stack Exchange!


                      • Please be sure to answer the question. Provide details and share your research!

                      But avoid



                      • Asking for help, clarification, or responding to other answers.

                      • Making statements based on opinion; back them up with references or personal experience.


                      Use MathJax to format equations. MathJax reference.


                      To learn more, see our tips on writing great answers.




                      draft saved


                      draft discarded














                      StackExchange.ready(
                      function () {
                      StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2fmath.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f3057347%2fequivalence-of-definitions-of-a-closed-set%23new-answer', 'question_page');
                      }
                      );

                      Post as a guest















                      Required, but never shown





















































                      Required, but never shown














                      Required, but never shown












                      Required, but never shown







                      Required, but never shown

































                      Required, but never shown














                      Required, but never shown












                      Required, but never shown







                      Required, but never shown







                      Popular posts from this blog

                      Probability when a professor distributes a quiz and homework assignment to a class of n students.

                      Aardman Animations

                      Are they similar matrix