Norm of a symmetric matrix equals spectral radius
$begingroup$
How do I prove that the norm of a matrix equals the absolutely largest eigenvalue of the matrix? This is the precise question:
Let $A$ be a symmetric $n times n$ matrix. Consider $A$ as an operator in $mathbb{R}^n$ given by $x mapsto Ax$. Prove that $|A| = max_j |lambda_j|$, where $lambda_j$ are the eigenvalues of $A$.
I've read the relevant sections in my literature over and over but can't find any clue on how to begin. A solution is suggested here but the notion of diagonal operator is not in my literature so it doesn't tell me very much. So, any other hints on how to solve the question? Thanks.
matrices functional-analysis operator-theory symmetric-matrices spectral-radius
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
How do I prove that the norm of a matrix equals the absolutely largest eigenvalue of the matrix? This is the precise question:
Let $A$ be a symmetric $n times n$ matrix. Consider $A$ as an operator in $mathbb{R}^n$ given by $x mapsto Ax$. Prove that $|A| = max_j |lambda_j|$, where $lambda_j$ are the eigenvalues of $A$.
I've read the relevant sections in my literature over and over but can't find any clue on how to begin. A solution is suggested here but the notion of diagonal operator is not in my literature so it doesn't tell me very much. So, any other hints on how to solve the question? Thanks.
matrices functional-analysis operator-theory symmetric-matrices spectral-radius
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
How do I prove that the norm of a matrix equals the absolutely largest eigenvalue of the matrix? This is the precise question:
Let $A$ be a symmetric $n times n$ matrix. Consider $A$ as an operator in $mathbb{R}^n$ given by $x mapsto Ax$. Prove that $|A| = max_j |lambda_j|$, where $lambda_j$ are the eigenvalues of $A$.
I've read the relevant sections in my literature over and over but can't find any clue on how to begin. A solution is suggested here but the notion of diagonal operator is not in my literature so it doesn't tell me very much. So, any other hints on how to solve the question? Thanks.
matrices functional-analysis operator-theory symmetric-matrices spectral-radius
$endgroup$
How do I prove that the norm of a matrix equals the absolutely largest eigenvalue of the matrix? This is the precise question:
Let $A$ be a symmetric $n times n$ matrix. Consider $A$ as an operator in $mathbb{R}^n$ given by $x mapsto Ax$. Prove that $|A| = max_j |lambda_j|$, where $lambda_j$ are the eigenvalues of $A$.
I've read the relevant sections in my literature over and over but can't find any clue on how to begin. A solution is suggested here but the notion of diagonal operator is not in my literature so it doesn't tell me very much. So, any other hints on how to solve the question? Thanks.
matrices functional-analysis operator-theory symmetric-matrices spectral-radius
matrices functional-analysis operator-theory symmetric-matrices spectral-radius
edited Jul 8 '18 at 22:57
Rodrigo de Azevedo
13.1k41960
13.1k41960
asked Dec 11 '13 at 21:57
Erik VesterlundErik Vesterlund
6751816
6751816
add a comment |
add a comment |
2 Answers
2
active
oldest
votes
$begingroup$
The norm of a matrix is defined as
begin{equation}
|A| = sup_{|u| = 1} |Au|
end{equation}
Taking the singular value decomposition of the matrix $A$, we have
begin{equation}
A = VD W^T
end{equation}
where $V$ and $W$ are orthonormal and $D$ is a diagonal matrix. Since $V$ and $W$ are orthonormal, we have $|V| = 1$ and $|W| = 1$. Then $|Av| = |D v|$ for any vector $v$. Then we can maximize the norm of $Av$ by maximizing the norm of $Dv$.
By the definition of singular value decomposition, $D$ will have the singular values of $A$ on its main diagonal and will have zeros everywhere else. Let $lambda_1, ldots, lambda_n$ denote these diagonal entries so that
begin{equation}
D = left(begin{array}{cccc}
lambda_1 & 0 & ldots & 0 \
0 & lambda_2 & ldots & 0 \
vdots & & ddots & vdots \
0 & 0 & ldots & lambda_n
end{array}right)
end{equation}
Taking some $v = (v_1, v_2, ldots, v_n)^T$, the product $Dv$ takes the form
begin{equation}
Dv = left(begin{array}{c}
lambda_1v_1 \
vdots \
lambda_nv_n
end{array}right)
end{equation}
Maximizing the norm of this is the same as maximizing the norm squared. Then we are trying to maximize the sum
begin{equation}
S = sum_{i=1}^{n} lambda_i^2v_i^2
end{equation}
under the constraint that $v$ is a unit vector (i.e., $sum_i v_i^2 = 1$). The maximum is attained by finding the largest $lambda_i^2$ and setting its corresponding $v_i$ to $1$ and then setting each other $v_j$ to $0$. Then the maximum of $S$ (which is the norm squared) is the square of the absolutely largest eigenvalue of $A$. Taking the square root, we get the absolutely largest eigenvalue of $A$.
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
"Since $Dv$ has only nonzero entries..." I don't understand much in this section. Why is the maximum of $||Dv||$ attained when we select $e_n$, what does "pick off" refer to, and what's SVD?
$endgroup$
– Erik Vesterlund
Dec 11 '13 at 22:38
$begingroup$
I've added some details (and removed a few confusing things) to make this a little clearer.
$endgroup$
– yoknapatawpha
Dec 12 '13 at 0:10
$begingroup$
This is overkill. See @user42070's more elementary approach.
$endgroup$
– Ted Shifrin
Dec 12 '13 at 0:38
1
$begingroup$
@TedShifrin is it not up to me who asked the question to determine what is overkill? I asked for more details, the answer is not overkill, it's precisely what I needed.
$endgroup$
– Erik Vesterlund
Dec 12 '13 at 13:50
1
$begingroup$
@ErikVesterlund If you consider $S$ just as a weighted sum (putting aside for now that these are eigenvalues of $A$ we're dealing with), then intuitively it makes sense that to maximize the weighted sum, we'd assign all of the weight to the largest element in the sum. Considering the case of a $2 times 2$ matrix, we'd just have $lambda_1$ and $lambda_2$ so that $S = lambda_1^2v_1^2 + lambda_2^2v_2^2$. Here, if $lambda_1 > lambda_2$, we'd maximize $S$ by setting $v_1 = 1$ and $v_2 = 0$ (and vice-versa if $lambda_2 > lambda_1$). The case of higher dimensions is similar. Does this help?
$endgroup$
– yoknapatawpha
Dec 12 '13 at 20:33
|
show 3 more comments
$begingroup$
But the key point is exactly that your matrix is diagonalizable more specially that you can find an orthonormal basis of eigenvector $e_i$ for which you have $A e_i=lambda_i e_i$.
Then your write for $x=sum x_ie_i$ and you have $Ax=sum x_ilambda_i e_i$ so that $|Ax|^2=sumlambda_i^2x_i^2$ now by definition of the norm of matrix it gives you $$frac{|Ax|}{|x|}leq|lambda_{i_0}|$$ therefore $|A|leq|lambda_{i_0}|$ where $lambda_{i_0}$ is the greatest eigenvalue . Finally the identity $|Ae_{i_0}|=|lambda_{i_0}e_i|$ gives you the inequality $|A|geq|lambda_{i_0}|$.
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
How do you get that $||Ax||^2 = sum lambda_i^2 x_i^2$? At least in my book the matrix norm is not defined, not previous to the exercise anyway so, what is it?
$endgroup$
– Erik Vesterlund
Dec 11 '13 at 22:36
1
$begingroup$
just because $(e_i)$ is an orthonormal basis, the whole question relies on the euclidean structure : the norm in $mathbb{R}^n$ is the one defined by $|x|^2:=<x,x>=sum x_i^2$. The fact that $e_i$ is orthonormal reads $<e_i,e_j>=delta_{ij}$ which means $1$ if $i=j$ and $0$ otherwise. Now compute $|x|^2=<x,x>=sum x_ix_j<e_i,e_j>=sum x_i^2$
$endgroup$
– user42070
Dec 11 '13 at 22:44
$begingroup$
Is it correct to draw the conclusion, that when we can find an eigenbasis, then the largest singular value always equals the largest eigenvalue?
$endgroup$
– Thomas Ahle
Feb 14 '17 at 6:24
$begingroup$
So $x_i$ is not the elements of $x$ but its decomposition in the orthonormal basis $(e_i)$?
$endgroup$
– Ella Shar
Jan 27 at 8:55
add a comment |
Your Answer
StackExchange.ifUsing("editor", function () {
return StackExchange.using("mathjaxEditing", function () {
StackExchange.MarkdownEditor.creationCallbacks.add(function (editor, postfix) {
StackExchange.mathjaxEditing.prepareWmdForMathJax(editor, postfix, [["$", "$"], ["\\(","\\)"]]);
});
});
}, "mathjax-editing");
StackExchange.ready(function() {
var channelOptions = {
tags: "".split(" "),
id: "69"
};
initTagRenderer("".split(" "), "".split(" "), channelOptions);
StackExchange.using("externalEditor", function() {
// Have to fire editor after snippets, if snippets enabled
if (StackExchange.settings.snippets.snippetsEnabled) {
StackExchange.using("snippets", function() {
createEditor();
});
}
else {
createEditor();
}
});
function createEditor() {
StackExchange.prepareEditor({
heartbeatType: 'answer',
autoActivateHeartbeat: false,
convertImagesToLinks: true,
noModals: true,
showLowRepImageUploadWarning: true,
reputationToPostImages: 10,
bindNavPrevention: true,
postfix: "",
imageUploader: {
brandingHtml: "Powered by u003ca class="icon-imgur-white" href="https://imgur.com/"u003eu003c/au003e",
contentPolicyHtml: "User contributions licensed under u003ca href="https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/3.0/"u003ecc by-sa 3.0 with attribution requiredu003c/au003e u003ca href="https://stackoverflow.com/legal/content-policy"u003e(content policy)u003c/au003e",
allowUrls: true
},
noCode: true, onDemand: true,
discardSelector: ".discard-answer"
,immediatelyShowMarkdownHelp:true
});
}
});
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function () {
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
});
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
StackExchange.ready(
function () {
StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2fmath.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f603375%2fnorm-of-a-symmetric-matrix-equals-spectral-radius%23new-answer', 'question_page');
}
);
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
2 Answers
2
active
oldest
votes
2 Answers
2
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
$begingroup$
The norm of a matrix is defined as
begin{equation}
|A| = sup_{|u| = 1} |Au|
end{equation}
Taking the singular value decomposition of the matrix $A$, we have
begin{equation}
A = VD W^T
end{equation}
where $V$ and $W$ are orthonormal and $D$ is a diagonal matrix. Since $V$ and $W$ are orthonormal, we have $|V| = 1$ and $|W| = 1$. Then $|Av| = |D v|$ for any vector $v$. Then we can maximize the norm of $Av$ by maximizing the norm of $Dv$.
By the definition of singular value decomposition, $D$ will have the singular values of $A$ on its main diagonal and will have zeros everywhere else. Let $lambda_1, ldots, lambda_n$ denote these diagonal entries so that
begin{equation}
D = left(begin{array}{cccc}
lambda_1 & 0 & ldots & 0 \
0 & lambda_2 & ldots & 0 \
vdots & & ddots & vdots \
0 & 0 & ldots & lambda_n
end{array}right)
end{equation}
Taking some $v = (v_1, v_2, ldots, v_n)^T$, the product $Dv$ takes the form
begin{equation}
Dv = left(begin{array}{c}
lambda_1v_1 \
vdots \
lambda_nv_n
end{array}right)
end{equation}
Maximizing the norm of this is the same as maximizing the norm squared. Then we are trying to maximize the sum
begin{equation}
S = sum_{i=1}^{n} lambda_i^2v_i^2
end{equation}
under the constraint that $v$ is a unit vector (i.e., $sum_i v_i^2 = 1$). The maximum is attained by finding the largest $lambda_i^2$ and setting its corresponding $v_i$ to $1$ and then setting each other $v_j$ to $0$. Then the maximum of $S$ (which is the norm squared) is the square of the absolutely largest eigenvalue of $A$. Taking the square root, we get the absolutely largest eigenvalue of $A$.
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
"Since $Dv$ has only nonzero entries..." I don't understand much in this section. Why is the maximum of $||Dv||$ attained when we select $e_n$, what does "pick off" refer to, and what's SVD?
$endgroup$
– Erik Vesterlund
Dec 11 '13 at 22:38
$begingroup$
I've added some details (and removed a few confusing things) to make this a little clearer.
$endgroup$
– yoknapatawpha
Dec 12 '13 at 0:10
$begingroup$
This is overkill. See @user42070's more elementary approach.
$endgroup$
– Ted Shifrin
Dec 12 '13 at 0:38
1
$begingroup$
@TedShifrin is it not up to me who asked the question to determine what is overkill? I asked for more details, the answer is not overkill, it's precisely what I needed.
$endgroup$
– Erik Vesterlund
Dec 12 '13 at 13:50
1
$begingroup$
@ErikVesterlund If you consider $S$ just as a weighted sum (putting aside for now that these are eigenvalues of $A$ we're dealing with), then intuitively it makes sense that to maximize the weighted sum, we'd assign all of the weight to the largest element in the sum. Considering the case of a $2 times 2$ matrix, we'd just have $lambda_1$ and $lambda_2$ so that $S = lambda_1^2v_1^2 + lambda_2^2v_2^2$. Here, if $lambda_1 > lambda_2$, we'd maximize $S$ by setting $v_1 = 1$ and $v_2 = 0$ (and vice-versa if $lambda_2 > lambda_1$). The case of higher dimensions is similar. Does this help?
$endgroup$
– yoknapatawpha
Dec 12 '13 at 20:33
|
show 3 more comments
$begingroup$
The norm of a matrix is defined as
begin{equation}
|A| = sup_{|u| = 1} |Au|
end{equation}
Taking the singular value decomposition of the matrix $A$, we have
begin{equation}
A = VD W^T
end{equation}
where $V$ and $W$ are orthonormal and $D$ is a diagonal matrix. Since $V$ and $W$ are orthonormal, we have $|V| = 1$ and $|W| = 1$. Then $|Av| = |D v|$ for any vector $v$. Then we can maximize the norm of $Av$ by maximizing the norm of $Dv$.
By the definition of singular value decomposition, $D$ will have the singular values of $A$ on its main diagonal and will have zeros everywhere else. Let $lambda_1, ldots, lambda_n$ denote these diagonal entries so that
begin{equation}
D = left(begin{array}{cccc}
lambda_1 & 0 & ldots & 0 \
0 & lambda_2 & ldots & 0 \
vdots & & ddots & vdots \
0 & 0 & ldots & lambda_n
end{array}right)
end{equation}
Taking some $v = (v_1, v_2, ldots, v_n)^T$, the product $Dv$ takes the form
begin{equation}
Dv = left(begin{array}{c}
lambda_1v_1 \
vdots \
lambda_nv_n
end{array}right)
end{equation}
Maximizing the norm of this is the same as maximizing the norm squared. Then we are trying to maximize the sum
begin{equation}
S = sum_{i=1}^{n} lambda_i^2v_i^2
end{equation}
under the constraint that $v$ is a unit vector (i.e., $sum_i v_i^2 = 1$). The maximum is attained by finding the largest $lambda_i^2$ and setting its corresponding $v_i$ to $1$ and then setting each other $v_j$ to $0$. Then the maximum of $S$ (which is the norm squared) is the square of the absolutely largest eigenvalue of $A$. Taking the square root, we get the absolutely largest eigenvalue of $A$.
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
"Since $Dv$ has only nonzero entries..." I don't understand much in this section. Why is the maximum of $||Dv||$ attained when we select $e_n$, what does "pick off" refer to, and what's SVD?
$endgroup$
– Erik Vesterlund
Dec 11 '13 at 22:38
$begingroup$
I've added some details (and removed a few confusing things) to make this a little clearer.
$endgroup$
– yoknapatawpha
Dec 12 '13 at 0:10
$begingroup$
This is overkill. See @user42070's more elementary approach.
$endgroup$
– Ted Shifrin
Dec 12 '13 at 0:38
1
$begingroup$
@TedShifrin is it not up to me who asked the question to determine what is overkill? I asked for more details, the answer is not overkill, it's precisely what I needed.
$endgroup$
– Erik Vesterlund
Dec 12 '13 at 13:50
1
$begingroup$
@ErikVesterlund If you consider $S$ just as a weighted sum (putting aside for now that these are eigenvalues of $A$ we're dealing with), then intuitively it makes sense that to maximize the weighted sum, we'd assign all of the weight to the largest element in the sum. Considering the case of a $2 times 2$ matrix, we'd just have $lambda_1$ and $lambda_2$ so that $S = lambda_1^2v_1^2 + lambda_2^2v_2^2$. Here, if $lambda_1 > lambda_2$, we'd maximize $S$ by setting $v_1 = 1$ and $v_2 = 0$ (and vice-versa if $lambda_2 > lambda_1$). The case of higher dimensions is similar. Does this help?
$endgroup$
– yoknapatawpha
Dec 12 '13 at 20:33
|
show 3 more comments
$begingroup$
The norm of a matrix is defined as
begin{equation}
|A| = sup_{|u| = 1} |Au|
end{equation}
Taking the singular value decomposition of the matrix $A$, we have
begin{equation}
A = VD W^T
end{equation}
where $V$ and $W$ are orthonormal and $D$ is a diagonal matrix. Since $V$ and $W$ are orthonormal, we have $|V| = 1$ and $|W| = 1$. Then $|Av| = |D v|$ for any vector $v$. Then we can maximize the norm of $Av$ by maximizing the norm of $Dv$.
By the definition of singular value decomposition, $D$ will have the singular values of $A$ on its main diagonal and will have zeros everywhere else. Let $lambda_1, ldots, lambda_n$ denote these diagonal entries so that
begin{equation}
D = left(begin{array}{cccc}
lambda_1 & 0 & ldots & 0 \
0 & lambda_2 & ldots & 0 \
vdots & & ddots & vdots \
0 & 0 & ldots & lambda_n
end{array}right)
end{equation}
Taking some $v = (v_1, v_2, ldots, v_n)^T$, the product $Dv$ takes the form
begin{equation}
Dv = left(begin{array}{c}
lambda_1v_1 \
vdots \
lambda_nv_n
end{array}right)
end{equation}
Maximizing the norm of this is the same as maximizing the norm squared. Then we are trying to maximize the sum
begin{equation}
S = sum_{i=1}^{n} lambda_i^2v_i^2
end{equation}
under the constraint that $v$ is a unit vector (i.e., $sum_i v_i^2 = 1$). The maximum is attained by finding the largest $lambda_i^2$ and setting its corresponding $v_i$ to $1$ and then setting each other $v_j$ to $0$. Then the maximum of $S$ (which is the norm squared) is the square of the absolutely largest eigenvalue of $A$. Taking the square root, we get the absolutely largest eigenvalue of $A$.
$endgroup$
The norm of a matrix is defined as
begin{equation}
|A| = sup_{|u| = 1} |Au|
end{equation}
Taking the singular value decomposition of the matrix $A$, we have
begin{equation}
A = VD W^T
end{equation}
where $V$ and $W$ are orthonormal and $D$ is a diagonal matrix. Since $V$ and $W$ are orthonormal, we have $|V| = 1$ and $|W| = 1$. Then $|Av| = |D v|$ for any vector $v$. Then we can maximize the norm of $Av$ by maximizing the norm of $Dv$.
By the definition of singular value decomposition, $D$ will have the singular values of $A$ on its main diagonal and will have zeros everywhere else. Let $lambda_1, ldots, lambda_n$ denote these diagonal entries so that
begin{equation}
D = left(begin{array}{cccc}
lambda_1 & 0 & ldots & 0 \
0 & lambda_2 & ldots & 0 \
vdots & & ddots & vdots \
0 & 0 & ldots & lambda_n
end{array}right)
end{equation}
Taking some $v = (v_1, v_2, ldots, v_n)^T$, the product $Dv$ takes the form
begin{equation}
Dv = left(begin{array}{c}
lambda_1v_1 \
vdots \
lambda_nv_n
end{array}right)
end{equation}
Maximizing the norm of this is the same as maximizing the norm squared. Then we are trying to maximize the sum
begin{equation}
S = sum_{i=1}^{n} lambda_i^2v_i^2
end{equation}
under the constraint that $v$ is a unit vector (i.e., $sum_i v_i^2 = 1$). The maximum is attained by finding the largest $lambda_i^2$ and setting its corresponding $v_i$ to $1$ and then setting each other $v_j$ to $0$. Then the maximum of $S$ (which is the norm squared) is the square of the absolutely largest eigenvalue of $A$. Taking the square root, we get the absolutely largest eigenvalue of $A$.
edited Jan 4 at 23:33
Wangkun Xu
485
485
answered Dec 11 '13 at 22:09
yoknapatawphayoknapatawpha
3,23172342
3,23172342
$begingroup$
"Since $Dv$ has only nonzero entries..." I don't understand much in this section. Why is the maximum of $||Dv||$ attained when we select $e_n$, what does "pick off" refer to, and what's SVD?
$endgroup$
– Erik Vesterlund
Dec 11 '13 at 22:38
$begingroup$
I've added some details (and removed a few confusing things) to make this a little clearer.
$endgroup$
– yoknapatawpha
Dec 12 '13 at 0:10
$begingroup$
This is overkill. See @user42070's more elementary approach.
$endgroup$
– Ted Shifrin
Dec 12 '13 at 0:38
1
$begingroup$
@TedShifrin is it not up to me who asked the question to determine what is overkill? I asked for more details, the answer is not overkill, it's precisely what I needed.
$endgroup$
– Erik Vesterlund
Dec 12 '13 at 13:50
1
$begingroup$
@ErikVesterlund If you consider $S$ just as a weighted sum (putting aside for now that these are eigenvalues of $A$ we're dealing with), then intuitively it makes sense that to maximize the weighted sum, we'd assign all of the weight to the largest element in the sum. Considering the case of a $2 times 2$ matrix, we'd just have $lambda_1$ and $lambda_2$ so that $S = lambda_1^2v_1^2 + lambda_2^2v_2^2$. Here, if $lambda_1 > lambda_2$, we'd maximize $S$ by setting $v_1 = 1$ and $v_2 = 0$ (and vice-versa if $lambda_2 > lambda_1$). The case of higher dimensions is similar. Does this help?
$endgroup$
– yoknapatawpha
Dec 12 '13 at 20:33
|
show 3 more comments
$begingroup$
"Since $Dv$ has only nonzero entries..." I don't understand much in this section. Why is the maximum of $||Dv||$ attained when we select $e_n$, what does "pick off" refer to, and what's SVD?
$endgroup$
– Erik Vesterlund
Dec 11 '13 at 22:38
$begingroup$
I've added some details (and removed a few confusing things) to make this a little clearer.
$endgroup$
– yoknapatawpha
Dec 12 '13 at 0:10
$begingroup$
This is overkill. See @user42070's more elementary approach.
$endgroup$
– Ted Shifrin
Dec 12 '13 at 0:38
1
$begingroup$
@TedShifrin is it not up to me who asked the question to determine what is overkill? I asked for more details, the answer is not overkill, it's precisely what I needed.
$endgroup$
– Erik Vesterlund
Dec 12 '13 at 13:50
1
$begingroup$
@ErikVesterlund If you consider $S$ just as a weighted sum (putting aside for now that these are eigenvalues of $A$ we're dealing with), then intuitively it makes sense that to maximize the weighted sum, we'd assign all of the weight to the largest element in the sum. Considering the case of a $2 times 2$ matrix, we'd just have $lambda_1$ and $lambda_2$ so that $S = lambda_1^2v_1^2 + lambda_2^2v_2^2$. Here, if $lambda_1 > lambda_2$, we'd maximize $S$ by setting $v_1 = 1$ and $v_2 = 0$ (and vice-versa if $lambda_2 > lambda_1$). The case of higher dimensions is similar. Does this help?
$endgroup$
– yoknapatawpha
Dec 12 '13 at 20:33
$begingroup$
"Since $Dv$ has only nonzero entries..." I don't understand much in this section. Why is the maximum of $||Dv||$ attained when we select $e_n$, what does "pick off" refer to, and what's SVD?
$endgroup$
– Erik Vesterlund
Dec 11 '13 at 22:38
$begingroup$
"Since $Dv$ has only nonzero entries..." I don't understand much in this section. Why is the maximum of $||Dv||$ attained when we select $e_n$, what does "pick off" refer to, and what's SVD?
$endgroup$
– Erik Vesterlund
Dec 11 '13 at 22:38
$begingroup$
I've added some details (and removed a few confusing things) to make this a little clearer.
$endgroup$
– yoknapatawpha
Dec 12 '13 at 0:10
$begingroup$
I've added some details (and removed a few confusing things) to make this a little clearer.
$endgroup$
– yoknapatawpha
Dec 12 '13 at 0:10
$begingroup$
This is overkill. See @user42070's more elementary approach.
$endgroup$
– Ted Shifrin
Dec 12 '13 at 0:38
$begingroup$
This is overkill. See @user42070's more elementary approach.
$endgroup$
– Ted Shifrin
Dec 12 '13 at 0:38
1
1
$begingroup$
@TedShifrin is it not up to me who asked the question to determine what is overkill? I asked for more details, the answer is not overkill, it's precisely what I needed.
$endgroup$
– Erik Vesterlund
Dec 12 '13 at 13:50
$begingroup$
@TedShifrin is it not up to me who asked the question to determine what is overkill? I asked for more details, the answer is not overkill, it's precisely what I needed.
$endgroup$
– Erik Vesterlund
Dec 12 '13 at 13:50
1
1
$begingroup$
@ErikVesterlund If you consider $S$ just as a weighted sum (putting aside for now that these are eigenvalues of $A$ we're dealing with), then intuitively it makes sense that to maximize the weighted sum, we'd assign all of the weight to the largest element in the sum. Considering the case of a $2 times 2$ matrix, we'd just have $lambda_1$ and $lambda_2$ so that $S = lambda_1^2v_1^2 + lambda_2^2v_2^2$. Here, if $lambda_1 > lambda_2$, we'd maximize $S$ by setting $v_1 = 1$ and $v_2 = 0$ (and vice-versa if $lambda_2 > lambda_1$). The case of higher dimensions is similar. Does this help?
$endgroup$
– yoknapatawpha
Dec 12 '13 at 20:33
$begingroup$
@ErikVesterlund If you consider $S$ just as a weighted sum (putting aside for now that these are eigenvalues of $A$ we're dealing with), then intuitively it makes sense that to maximize the weighted sum, we'd assign all of the weight to the largest element in the sum. Considering the case of a $2 times 2$ matrix, we'd just have $lambda_1$ and $lambda_2$ so that $S = lambda_1^2v_1^2 + lambda_2^2v_2^2$. Here, if $lambda_1 > lambda_2$, we'd maximize $S$ by setting $v_1 = 1$ and $v_2 = 0$ (and vice-versa if $lambda_2 > lambda_1$). The case of higher dimensions is similar. Does this help?
$endgroup$
– yoknapatawpha
Dec 12 '13 at 20:33
|
show 3 more comments
$begingroup$
But the key point is exactly that your matrix is diagonalizable more specially that you can find an orthonormal basis of eigenvector $e_i$ for which you have $A e_i=lambda_i e_i$.
Then your write for $x=sum x_ie_i$ and you have $Ax=sum x_ilambda_i e_i$ so that $|Ax|^2=sumlambda_i^2x_i^2$ now by definition of the norm of matrix it gives you $$frac{|Ax|}{|x|}leq|lambda_{i_0}|$$ therefore $|A|leq|lambda_{i_0}|$ where $lambda_{i_0}$ is the greatest eigenvalue . Finally the identity $|Ae_{i_0}|=|lambda_{i_0}e_i|$ gives you the inequality $|A|geq|lambda_{i_0}|$.
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
How do you get that $||Ax||^2 = sum lambda_i^2 x_i^2$? At least in my book the matrix norm is not defined, not previous to the exercise anyway so, what is it?
$endgroup$
– Erik Vesterlund
Dec 11 '13 at 22:36
1
$begingroup$
just because $(e_i)$ is an orthonormal basis, the whole question relies on the euclidean structure : the norm in $mathbb{R}^n$ is the one defined by $|x|^2:=<x,x>=sum x_i^2$. The fact that $e_i$ is orthonormal reads $<e_i,e_j>=delta_{ij}$ which means $1$ if $i=j$ and $0$ otherwise. Now compute $|x|^2=<x,x>=sum x_ix_j<e_i,e_j>=sum x_i^2$
$endgroup$
– user42070
Dec 11 '13 at 22:44
$begingroup$
Is it correct to draw the conclusion, that when we can find an eigenbasis, then the largest singular value always equals the largest eigenvalue?
$endgroup$
– Thomas Ahle
Feb 14 '17 at 6:24
$begingroup$
So $x_i$ is not the elements of $x$ but its decomposition in the orthonormal basis $(e_i)$?
$endgroup$
– Ella Shar
Jan 27 at 8:55
add a comment |
$begingroup$
But the key point is exactly that your matrix is diagonalizable more specially that you can find an orthonormal basis of eigenvector $e_i$ for which you have $A e_i=lambda_i e_i$.
Then your write for $x=sum x_ie_i$ and you have $Ax=sum x_ilambda_i e_i$ so that $|Ax|^2=sumlambda_i^2x_i^2$ now by definition of the norm of matrix it gives you $$frac{|Ax|}{|x|}leq|lambda_{i_0}|$$ therefore $|A|leq|lambda_{i_0}|$ where $lambda_{i_0}$ is the greatest eigenvalue . Finally the identity $|Ae_{i_0}|=|lambda_{i_0}e_i|$ gives you the inequality $|A|geq|lambda_{i_0}|$.
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
How do you get that $||Ax||^2 = sum lambda_i^2 x_i^2$? At least in my book the matrix norm is not defined, not previous to the exercise anyway so, what is it?
$endgroup$
– Erik Vesterlund
Dec 11 '13 at 22:36
1
$begingroup$
just because $(e_i)$ is an orthonormal basis, the whole question relies on the euclidean structure : the norm in $mathbb{R}^n$ is the one defined by $|x|^2:=<x,x>=sum x_i^2$. The fact that $e_i$ is orthonormal reads $<e_i,e_j>=delta_{ij}$ which means $1$ if $i=j$ and $0$ otherwise. Now compute $|x|^2=<x,x>=sum x_ix_j<e_i,e_j>=sum x_i^2$
$endgroup$
– user42070
Dec 11 '13 at 22:44
$begingroup$
Is it correct to draw the conclusion, that when we can find an eigenbasis, then the largest singular value always equals the largest eigenvalue?
$endgroup$
– Thomas Ahle
Feb 14 '17 at 6:24
$begingroup$
So $x_i$ is not the elements of $x$ but its decomposition in the orthonormal basis $(e_i)$?
$endgroup$
– Ella Shar
Jan 27 at 8:55
add a comment |
$begingroup$
But the key point is exactly that your matrix is diagonalizable more specially that you can find an orthonormal basis of eigenvector $e_i$ for which you have $A e_i=lambda_i e_i$.
Then your write for $x=sum x_ie_i$ and you have $Ax=sum x_ilambda_i e_i$ so that $|Ax|^2=sumlambda_i^2x_i^2$ now by definition of the norm of matrix it gives you $$frac{|Ax|}{|x|}leq|lambda_{i_0}|$$ therefore $|A|leq|lambda_{i_0}|$ where $lambda_{i_0}$ is the greatest eigenvalue . Finally the identity $|Ae_{i_0}|=|lambda_{i_0}e_i|$ gives you the inequality $|A|geq|lambda_{i_0}|$.
$endgroup$
But the key point is exactly that your matrix is diagonalizable more specially that you can find an orthonormal basis of eigenvector $e_i$ for which you have $A e_i=lambda_i e_i$.
Then your write for $x=sum x_ie_i$ and you have $Ax=sum x_ilambda_i e_i$ so that $|Ax|^2=sumlambda_i^2x_i^2$ now by definition of the norm of matrix it gives you $$frac{|Ax|}{|x|}leq|lambda_{i_0}|$$ therefore $|A|leq|lambda_{i_0}|$ where $lambda_{i_0}$ is the greatest eigenvalue . Finally the identity $|Ae_{i_0}|=|lambda_{i_0}e_i|$ gives you the inequality $|A|geq|lambda_{i_0}|$.
edited Dec 11 '13 at 22:48
answered Dec 11 '13 at 22:10
user42070user42070
40028
40028
$begingroup$
How do you get that $||Ax||^2 = sum lambda_i^2 x_i^2$? At least in my book the matrix norm is not defined, not previous to the exercise anyway so, what is it?
$endgroup$
– Erik Vesterlund
Dec 11 '13 at 22:36
1
$begingroup$
just because $(e_i)$ is an orthonormal basis, the whole question relies on the euclidean structure : the norm in $mathbb{R}^n$ is the one defined by $|x|^2:=<x,x>=sum x_i^2$. The fact that $e_i$ is orthonormal reads $<e_i,e_j>=delta_{ij}$ which means $1$ if $i=j$ and $0$ otherwise. Now compute $|x|^2=<x,x>=sum x_ix_j<e_i,e_j>=sum x_i^2$
$endgroup$
– user42070
Dec 11 '13 at 22:44
$begingroup$
Is it correct to draw the conclusion, that when we can find an eigenbasis, then the largest singular value always equals the largest eigenvalue?
$endgroup$
– Thomas Ahle
Feb 14 '17 at 6:24
$begingroup$
So $x_i$ is not the elements of $x$ but its decomposition in the orthonormal basis $(e_i)$?
$endgroup$
– Ella Shar
Jan 27 at 8:55
add a comment |
$begingroup$
How do you get that $||Ax||^2 = sum lambda_i^2 x_i^2$? At least in my book the matrix norm is not defined, not previous to the exercise anyway so, what is it?
$endgroup$
– Erik Vesterlund
Dec 11 '13 at 22:36
1
$begingroup$
just because $(e_i)$ is an orthonormal basis, the whole question relies on the euclidean structure : the norm in $mathbb{R}^n$ is the one defined by $|x|^2:=<x,x>=sum x_i^2$. The fact that $e_i$ is orthonormal reads $<e_i,e_j>=delta_{ij}$ which means $1$ if $i=j$ and $0$ otherwise. Now compute $|x|^2=<x,x>=sum x_ix_j<e_i,e_j>=sum x_i^2$
$endgroup$
– user42070
Dec 11 '13 at 22:44
$begingroup$
Is it correct to draw the conclusion, that when we can find an eigenbasis, then the largest singular value always equals the largest eigenvalue?
$endgroup$
– Thomas Ahle
Feb 14 '17 at 6:24
$begingroup$
So $x_i$ is not the elements of $x$ but its decomposition in the orthonormal basis $(e_i)$?
$endgroup$
– Ella Shar
Jan 27 at 8:55
$begingroup$
How do you get that $||Ax||^2 = sum lambda_i^2 x_i^2$? At least in my book the matrix norm is not defined, not previous to the exercise anyway so, what is it?
$endgroup$
– Erik Vesterlund
Dec 11 '13 at 22:36
$begingroup$
How do you get that $||Ax||^2 = sum lambda_i^2 x_i^2$? At least in my book the matrix norm is not defined, not previous to the exercise anyway so, what is it?
$endgroup$
– Erik Vesterlund
Dec 11 '13 at 22:36
1
1
$begingroup$
just because $(e_i)$ is an orthonormal basis, the whole question relies on the euclidean structure : the norm in $mathbb{R}^n$ is the one defined by $|x|^2:=<x,x>=sum x_i^2$. The fact that $e_i$ is orthonormal reads $<e_i,e_j>=delta_{ij}$ which means $1$ if $i=j$ and $0$ otherwise. Now compute $|x|^2=<x,x>=sum x_ix_j<e_i,e_j>=sum x_i^2$
$endgroup$
– user42070
Dec 11 '13 at 22:44
$begingroup$
just because $(e_i)$ is an orthonormal basis, the whole question relies on the euclidean structure : the norm in $mathbb{R}^n$ is the one defined by $|x|^2:=<x,x>=sum x_i^2$. The fact that $e_i$ is orthonormal reads $<e_i,e_j>=delta_{ij}$ which means $1$ if $i=j$ and $0$ otherwise. Now compute $|x|^2=<x,x>=sum x_ix_j<e_i,e_j>=sum x_i^2$
$endgroup$
– user42070
Dec 11 '13 at 22:44
$begingroup$
Is it correct to draw the conclusion, that when we can find an eigenbasis, then the largest singular value always equals the largest eigenvalue?
$endgroup$
– Thomas Ahle
Feb 14 '17 at 6:24
$begingroup$
Is it correct to draw the conclusion, that when we can find an eigenbasis, then the largest singular value always equals the largest eigenvalue?
$endgroup$
– Thomas Ahle
Feb 14 '17 at 6:24
$begingroup$
So $x_i$ is not the elements of $x$ but its decomposition in the orthonormal basis $(e_i)$?
$endgroup$
– Ella Shar
Jan 27 at 8:55
$begingroup$
So $x_i$ is not the elements of $x$ but its decomposition in the orthonormal basis $(e_i)$?
$endgroup$
– Ella Shar
Jan 27 at 8:55
add a comment |
Thanks for contributing an answer to Mathematics Stack Exchange!
- Please be sure to answer the question. Provide details and share your research!
But avoid …
- Asking for help, clarification, or responding to other answers.
- Making statements based on opinion; back them up with references or personal experience.
Use MathJax to format equations. MathJax reference.
To learn more, see our tips on writing great answers.
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function () {
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
});
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
StackExchange.ready(
function () {
StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2fmath.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f603375%2fnorm-of-a-symmetric-matrix-equals-spectral-radius%23new-answer', 'question_page');
}
);
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function () {
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
});
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function () {
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
});
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function () {
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
});
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown