Predicate Calculus and Statement












0












$begingroup$


I'm having a hard time to understand predicate Calculus, Statement and Prolog programming.



Let $male$ be a unary predicate symbol with the indicated meaning. Let $parent$, $son$,
$sibling$, and $ancestor$ be binary predicate symbols, interpreted so that the first argument
bears the indicated relation to the second (e.g., $parent(X, Y)$ expresses that $X$ is a
parent of $Y$ ). Let $john$ and $Jill$ be constants representing some individuals having these
names.



Problem a:
Write a statement that says that John is male.



My answer:



$$male(John)$$



b. Write a statement that says that Jill is a parent of John.



My answer:



$$parent(Jill, John)$$



c. Write a statement that says that $X$ is a son of $Y$ if $Y$ is a parent of $X$ and $X$ is male.



My answer:



$$∀x∀y(parent(y,x) ∧ male(x) → son(x,y))$$



d. Write a statement that says that $X$ and $Y$ are siblings if they have a common parent.



My answer:



$$∀x∀y∃z((parent(z,x) ∧ parent(z,y) → sibling(x,y))$$



e. Write a pair of statements that dene the ancestor relation in terms of the parent relation. (requires a recursive definition)



My answer:



$$∀x∀y(parent(x,y))$$
$$∀y∀z(parent(y,z))$$



f. Write a statement that says that everyone has an ancestor.



My answer:



$$∀x∃y(ancestor(y,x))$$



g. Write a statement that says that no one can be his or her own ancestor.



My answer:



$$¬∃x(ancestor(x,x))$$



Desperately need some advice whether my answer is write or wrong.



And another questions would be: For the above interpretation, the domain could be any kind of objects, e.g., numbers.



So what is the size of the domain of the smallest possible model for the above statement?



I have no idea what does it mean by the size of domain? How could I calculate the size of domain? and what is meant by smallest possible model?










share|cite|improve this question











$endgroup$

















    0












    $begingroup$


    I'm having a hard time to understand predicate Calculus, Statement and Prolog programming.



    Let $male$ be a unary predicate symbol with the indicated meaning. Let $parent$, $son$,
    $sibling$, and $ancestor$ be binary predicate symbols, interpreted so that the first argument
    bears the indicated relation to the second (e.g., $parent(X, Y)$ expresses that $X$ is a
    parent of $Y$ ). Let $john$ and $Jill$ be constants representing some individuals having these
    names.



    Problem a:
    Write a statement that says that John is male.



    My answer:



    $$male(John)$$



    b. Write a statement that says that Jill is a parent of John.



    My answer:



    $$parent(Jill, John)$$



    c. Write a statement that says that $X$ is a son of $Y$ if $Y$ is a parent of $X$ and $X$ is male.



    My answer:



    $$∀x∀y(parent(y,x) ∧ male(x) → son(x,y))$$



    d. Write a statement that says that $X$ and $Y$ are siblings if they have a common parent.



    My answer:



    $$∀x∀y∃z((parent(z,x) ∧ parent(z,y) → sibling(x,y))$$



    e. Write a pair of statements that dene the ancestor relation in terms of the parent relation. (requires a recursive definition)



    My answer:



    $$∀x∀y(parent(x,y))$$
    $$∀y∀z(parent(y,z))$$



    f. Write a statement that says that everyone has an ancestor.



    My answer:



    $$∀x∃y(ancestor(y,x))$$



    g. Write a statement that says that no one can be his or her own ancestor.



    My answer:



    $$¬∃x(ancestor(x,x))$$



    Desperately need some advice whether my answer is write or wrong.



    And another questions would be: For the above interpretation, the domain could be any kind of objects, e.g., numbers.



    So what is the size of the domain of the smallest possible model for the above statement?



    I have no idea what does it mean by the size of domain? How could I calculate the size of domain? and what is meant by smallest possible model?










    share|cite|improve this question











    $endgroup$















      0












      0








      0





      $begingroup$


      I'm having a hard time to understand predicate Calculus, Statement and Prolog programming.



      Let $male$ be a unary predicate symbol with the indicated meaning. Let $parent$, $son$,
      $sibling$, and $ancestor$ be binary predicate symbols, interpreted so that the first argument
      bears the indicated relation to the second (e.g., $parent(X, Y)$ expresses that $X$ is a
      parent of $Y$ ). Let $john$ and $Jill$ be constants representing some individuals having these
      names.



      Problem a:
      Write a statement that says that John is male.



      My answer:



      $$male(John)$$



      b. Write a statement that says that Jill is a parent of John.



      My answer:



      $$parent(Jill, John)$$



      c. Write a statement that says that $X$ is a son of $Y$ if $Y$ is a parent of $X$ and $X$ is male.



      My answer:



      $$∀x∀y(parent(y,x) ∧ male(x) → son(x,y))$$



      d. Write a statement that says that $X$ and $Y$ are siblings if they have a common parent.



      My answer:



      $$∀x∀y∃z((parent(z,x) ∧ parent(z,y) → sibling(x,y))$$



      e. Write a pair of statements that dene the ancestor relation in terms of the parent relation. (requires a recursive definition)



      My answer:



      $$∀x∀y(parent(x,y))$$
      $$∀y∀z(parent(y,z))$$



      f. Write a statement that says that everyone has an ancestor.



      My answer:



      $$∀x∃y(ancestor(y,x))$$



      g. Write a statement that says that no one can be his or her own ancestor.



      My answer:



      $$¬∃x(ancestor(x,x))$$



      Desperately need some advice whether my answer is write or wrong.



      And another questions would be: For the above interpretation, the domain could be any kind of objects, e.g., numbers.



      So what is the size of the domain of the smallest possible model for the above statement?



      I have no idea what does it mean by the size of domain? How could I calculate the size of domain? and what is meant by smallest possible model?










      share|cite|improve this question











      $endgroup$




      I'm having a hard time to understand predicate Calculus, Statement and Prolog programming.



      Let $male$ be a unary predicate symbol with the indicated meaning. Let $parent$, $son$,
      $sibling$, and $ancestor$ be binary predicate symbols, interpreted so that the first argument
      bears the indicated relation to the second (e.g., $parent(X, Y)$ expresses that $X$ is a
      parent of $Y$ ). Let $john$ and $Jill$ be constants representing some individuals having these
      names.



      Problem a:
      Write a statement that says that John is male.



      My answer:



      $$male(John)$$



      b. Write a statement that says that Jill is a parent of John.



      My answer:



      $$parent(Jill, John)$$



      c. Write a statement that says that $X$ is a son of $Y$ if $Y$ is a parent of $X$ and $X$ is male.



      My answer:



      $$∀x∀y(parent(y,x) ∧ male(x) → son(x,y))$$



      d. Write a statement that says that $X$ and $Y$ are siblings if they have a common parent.



      My answer:



      $$∀x∀y∃z((parent(z,x) ∧ parent(z,y) → sibling(x,y))$$



      e. Write a pair of statements that dene the ancestor relation in terms of the parent relation. (requires a recursive definition)



      My answer:



      $$∀x∀y(parent(x,y))$$
      $$∀y∀z(parent(y,z))$$



      f. Write a statement that says that everyone has an ancestor.



      My answer:



      $$∀x∃y(ancestor(y,x))$$



      g. Write a statement that says that no one can be his or her own ancestor.



      My answer:



      $$¬∃x(ancestor(x,x))$$



      Desperately need some advice whether my answer is write or wrong.



      And another questions would be: For the above interpretation, the domain could be any kind of objects, e.g., numbers.



      So what is the size of the domain of the smallest possible model for the above statement?



      I have no idea what does it mean by the size of domain? How could I calculate the size of domain? and what is meant by smallest possible model?







      discrete-mathematics logic predicate-logic quantifiers logic-translation






      share|cite|improve this question















      share|cite|improve this question













      share|cite|improve this question




      share|cite|improve this question








      edited Dec 10 '18 at 2:54









      Bram28

      61.8k44793




      61.8k44793










      asked Dec 9 '18 at 22:05









      keqiao likeqiao li

      424




      424






















          1 Answer
          1






          active

          oldest

          votes


















          1












          $begingroup$

          d) is not right: the $z$ should be universally quantified. So:



          $$forall x forall y forall z(parent(z,x) land parent(z,y) rightarrow sibling(x,y))$$



          (p.s. I really prefer to use parentheses, rather than to rely on operator preference, so I would use:



          $$forall x forall y forall z(color{red}(parent(z,x) land parent(z,y)color{red}) rightarrow sibling(x,y))$$



          For e), you need to use the ancestor predicate somewhere of course, given that you are trying to define it.



          So:



          $$forall x forall y (parent(x,y) rightarrow ancestor(x,y))$$



          $$forall x forall y forall z ((parent(x,z) land ancestor(z, y)) rightarrow ancestor(x,y))$$



          Finally, there is a model of size $3$: make Jack, Jill, and John the only objects in the domain. Make Jack the only ancestor of Jill, and Jill the only ancestor of Jack, but do not make them parents of each other.



          So, what you get is:



          3 objects: John, Jill, and Jack



          males: John (the other two don't matter, so let's say John is only male)



          parents: Jill is parent of John .. that's all



          sons: John is son of Jill ... that's all



          ancestor: Jill is ancestor of John, Jack is ancestor of Jill, Jill is ancestor of Jack



          This clearly satisfies a) and b)



          c) is satisfied too: the only male is John, and the only parent relationship is that Jill is a parent of John, so that's the only one that applies, and indeed john is a son of Jill



          to satisfy d) you need to make sure that John is a sibling of himself



          e) is ok: the only parent relationship is also an ancestor relationship. And since John is the only one with a parent, but is not the ancestor of anyone, the antecedent never applies, meaning that the whole statement is true.



          Finally, f) and g) are true: everyone has an ancestor, but not themselves.






          share|cite|improve this answer











          $endgroup$













          • $begingroup$
            Thank you for the response. For d, I don't quite understand. Why use universal quantifier in this case, since the problem is asking for "a common parent".
            $endgroup$
            – keqiao li
            Dec 9 '18 at 22:22










          • $begingroup$
            @keqiaoli Think of the 'a common parent' as 'any common parent'
            $endgroup$
            – Bram28
            Dec 9 '18 at 22:23










          • $begingroup$
            @Bram28I got it. Thank you for your help. Would you mind to provide any hint for the second part of my question : "what is the size of the domain of the smallest possible model for the above statement?" I really have no clue where to start it.
            $endgroup$
            – keqiao li
            Dec 9 '18 at 22:26












          • $begingroup$
            @Bram28Sorry, are you saying "Make Jack the only ancestor of Jill, and Jill the only ancestor of Jack, but do not make them parents of each other."?
            $endgroup$
            – keqiao li
            Dec 10 '18 at 17:28










          • $begingroup$
            @keqiaoli Yes, that's what I am saying. Sorry, yesterday I though there could be a model of size 2 (i.e. with just John and Jill), but to make that work, you need make John the ancestor of Jill (since everyone needs to have an ancestor, but it cannot be themselves), but then because Jill is the parent of John, and John the ancestor of Jill, you get by the recursive definition that Jill is the ancestor of Jill after all, so that does not work. But with Jack as a third person it should work:
            $endgroup$
            – Bram28
            Dec 10 '18 at 17:54











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          1 Answer
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          $begingroup$

          d) is not right: the $z$ should be universally quantified. So:



          $$forall x forall y forall z(parent(z,x) land parent(z,y) rightarrow sibling(x,y))$$



          (p.s. I really prefer to use parentheses, rather than to rely on operator preference, so I would use:



          $$forall x forall y forall z(color{red}(parent(z,x) land parent(z,y)color{red}) rightarrow sibling(x,y))$$



          For e), you need to use the ancestor predicate somewhere of course, given that you are trying to define it.



          So:



          $$forall x forall y (parent(x,y) rightarrow ancestor(x,y))$$



          $$forall x forall y forall z ((parent(x,z) land ancestor(z, y)) rightarrow ancestor(x,y))$$



          Finally, there is a model of size $3$: make Jack, Jill, and John the only objects in the domain. Make Jack the only ancestor of Jill, and Jill the only ancestor of Jack, but do not make them parents of each other.



          So, what you get is:



          3 objects: John, Jill, and Jack



          males: John (the other two don't matter, so let's say John is only male)



          parents: Jill is parent of John .. that's all



          sons: John is son of Jill ... that's all



          ancestor: Jill is ancestor of John, Jack is ancestor of Jill, Jill is ancestor of Jack



          This clearly satisfies a) and b)



          c) is satisfied too: the only male is John, and the only parent relationship is that Jill is a parent of John, so that's the only one that applies, and indeed john is a son of Jill



          to satisfy d) you need to make sure that John is a sibling of himself



          e) is ok: the only parent relationship is also an ancestor relationship. And since John is the only one with a parent, but is not the ancestor of anyone, the antecedent never applies, meaning that the whole statement is true.



          Finally, f) and g) are true: everyone has an ancestor, but not themselves.






          share|cite|improve this answer











          $endgroup$













          • $begingroup$
            Thank you for the response. For d, I don't quite understand. Why use universal quantifier in this case, since the problem is asking for "a common parent".
            $endgroup$
            – keqiao li
            Dec 9 '18 at 22:22










          • $begingroup$
            @keqiaoli Think of the 'a common parent' as 'any common parent'
            $endgroup$
            – Bram28
            Dec 9 '18 at 22:23










          • $begingroup$
            @Bram28I got it. Thank you for your help. Would you mind to provide any hint for the second part of my question : "what is the size of the domain of the smallest possible model for the above statement?" I really have no clue where to start it.
            $endgroup$
            – keqiao li
            Dec 9 '18 at 22:26












          • $begingroup$
            @Bram28Sorry, are you saying "Make Jack the only ancestor of Jill, and Jill the only ancestor of Jack, but do not make them parents of each other."?
            $endgroup$
            – keqiao li
            Dec 10 '18 at 17:28










          • $begingroup$
            @keqiaoli Yes, that's what I am saying. Sorry, yesterday I though there could be a model of size 2 (i.e. with just John and Jill), but to make that work, you need make John the ancestor of Jill (since everyone needs to have an ancestor, but it cannot be themselves), but then because Jill is the parent of John, and John the ancestor of Jill, you get by the recursive definition that Jill is the ancestor of Jill after all, so that does not work. But with Jack as a third person it should work:
            $endgroup$
            – Bram28
            Dec 10 '18 at 17:54
















          1












          $begingroup$

          d) is not right: the $z$ should be universally quantified. So:



          $$forall x forall y forall z(parent(z,x) land parent(z,y) rightarrow sibling(x,y))$$



          (p.s. I really prefer to use parentheses, rather than to rely on operator preference, so I would use:



          $$forall x forall y forall z(color{red}(parent(z,x) land parent(z,y)color{red}) rightarrow sibling(x,y))$$



          For e), you need to use the ancestor predicate somewhere of course, given that you are trying to define it.



          So:



          $$forall x forall y (parent(x,y) rightarrow ancestor(x,y))$$



          $$forall x forall y forall z ((parent(x,z) land ancestor(z, y)) rightarrow ancestor(x,y))$$



          Finally, there is a model of size $3$: make Jack, Jill, and John the only objects in the domain. Make Jack the only ancestor of Jill, and Jill the only ancestor of Jack, but do not make them parents of each other.



          So, what you get is:



          3 objects: John, Jill, and Jack



          males: John (the other two don't matter, so let's say John is only male)



          parents: Jill is parent of John .. that's all



          sons: John is son of Jill ... that's all



          ancestor: Jill is ancestor of John, Jack is ancestor of Jill, Jill is ancestor of Jack



          This clearly satisfies a) and b)



          c) is satisfied too: the only male is John, and the only parent relationship is that Jill is a parent of John, so that's the only one that applies, and indeed john is a son of Jill



          to satisfy d) you need to make sure that John is a sibling of himself



          e) is ok: the only parent relationship is also an ancestor relationship. And since John is the only one with a parent, but is not the ancestor of anyone, the antecedent never applies, meaning that the whole statement is true.



          Finally, f) and g) are true: everyone has an ancestor, but not themselves.






          share|cite|improve this answer











          $endgroup$













          • $begingroup$
            Thank you for the response. For d, I don't quite understand. Why use universal quantifier in this case, since the problem is asking for "a common parent".
            $endgroup$
            – keqiao li
            Dec 9 '18 at 22:22










          • $begingroup$
            @keqiaoli Think of the 'a common parent' as 'any common parent'
            $endgroup$
            – Bram28
            Dec 9 '18 at 22:23










          • $begingroup$
            @Bram28I got it. Thank you for your help. Would you mind to provide any hint for the second part of my question : "what is the size of the domain of the smallest possible model for the above statement?" I really have no clue where to start it.
            $endgroup$
            – keqiao li
            Dec 9 '18 at 22:26












          • $begingroup$
            @Bram28Sorry, are you saying "Make Jack the only ancestor of Jill, and Jill the only ancestor of Jack, but do not make them parents of each other."?
            $endgroup$
            – keqiao li
            Dec 10 '18 at 17:28










          • $begingroup$
            @keqiaoli Yes, that's what I am saying. Sorry, yesterday I though there could be a model of size 2 (i.e. with just John and Jill), but to make that work, you need make John the ancestor of Jill (since everyone needs to have an ancestor, but it cannot be themselves), but then because Jill is the parent of John, and John the ancestor of Jill, you get by the recursive definition that Jill is the ancestor of Jill after all, so that does not work. But with Jack as a third person it should work:
            $endgroup$
            – Bram28
            Dec 10 '18 at 17:54














          1












          1








          1





          $begingroup$

          d) is not right: the $z$ should be universally quantified. So:



          $$forall x forall y forall z(parent(z,x) land parent(z,y) rightarrow sibling(x,y))$$



          (p.s. I really prefer to use parentheses, rather than to rely on operator preference, so I would use:



          $$forall x forall y forall z(color{red}(parent(z,x) land parent(z,y)color{red}) rightarrow sibling(x,y))$$



          For e), you need to use the ancestor predicate somewhere of course, given that you are trying to define it.



          So:



          $$forall x forall y (parent(x,y) rightarrow ancestor(x,y))$$



          $$forall x forall y forall z ((parent(x,z) land ancestor(z, y)) rightarrow ancestor(x,y))$$



          Finally, there is a model of size $3$: make Jack, Jill, and John the only objects in the domain. Make Jack the only ancestor of Jill, and Jill the only ancestor of Jack, but do not make them parents of each other.



          So, what you get is:



          3 objects: John, Jill, and Jack



          males: John (the other two don't matter, so let's say John is only male)



          parents: Jill is parent of John .. that's all



          sons: John is son of Jill ... that's all



          ancestor: Jill is ancestor of John, Jack is ancestor of Jill, Jill is ancestor of Jack



          This clearly satisfies a) and b)



          c) is satisfied too: the only male is John, and the only parent relationship is that Jill is a parent of John, so that's the only one that applies, and indeed john is a son of Jill



          to satisfy d) you need to make sure that John is a sibling of himself



          e) is ok: the only parent relationship is also an ancestor relationship. And since John is the only one with a parent, but is not the ancestor of anyone, the antecedent never applies, meaning that the whole statement is true.



          Finally, f) and g) are true: everyone has an ancestor, but not themselves.






          share|cite|improve this answer











          $endgroup$



          d) is not right: the $z$ should be universally quantified. So:



          $$forall x forall y forall z(parent(z,x) land parent(z,y) rightarrow sibling(x,y))$$



          (p.s. I really prefer to use parentheses, rather than to rely on operator preference, so I would use:



          $$forall x forall y forall z(color{red}(parent(z,x) land parent(z,y)color{red}) rightarrow sibling(x,y))$$



          For e), you need to use the ancestor predicate somewhere of course, given that you are trying to define it.



          So:



          $$forall x forall y (parent(x,y) rightarrow ancestor(x,y))$$



          $$forall x forall y forall z ((parent(x,z) land ancestor(z, y)) rightarrow ancestor(x,y))$$



          Finally, there is a model of size $3$: make Jack, Jill, and John the only objects in the domain. Make Jack the only ancestor of Jill, and Jill the only ancestor of Jack, but do not make them parents of each other.



          So, what you get is:



          3 objects: John, Jill, and Jack



          males: John (the other two don't matter, so let's say John is only male)



          parents: Jill is parent of John .. that's all



          sons: John is son of Jill ... that's all



          ancestor: Jill is ancestor of John, Jack is ancestor of Jill, Jill is ancestor of Jack



          This clearly satisfies a) and b)



          c) is satisfied too: the only male is John, and the only parent relationship is that Jill is a parent of John, so that's the only one that applies, and indeed john is a son of Jill



          to satisfy d) you need to make sure that John is a sibling of himself



          e) is ok: the only parent relationship is also an ancestor relationship. And since John is the only one with a parent, but is not the ancestor of anyone, the antecedent never applies, meaning that the whole statement is true.



          Finally, f) and g) are true: everyone has an ancestor, but not themselves.







          share|cite|improve this answer














          share|cite|improve this answer



          share|cite|improve this answer








          edited Dec 10 '18 at 18:29

























          answered Dec 9 '18 at 22:14









          Bram28Bram28

          61.8k44793




          61.8k44793












          • $begingroup$
            Thank you for the response. For d, I don't quite understand. Why use universal quantifier in this case, since the problem is asking for "a common parent".
            $endgroup$
            – keqiao li
            Dec 9 '18 at 22:22










          • $begingroup$
            @keqiaoli Think of the 'a common parent' as 'any common parent'
            $endgroup$
            – Bram28
            Dec 9 '18 at 22:23










          • $begingroup$
            @Bram28I got it. Thank you for your help. Would you mind to provide any hint for the second part of my question : "what is the size of the domain of the smallest possible model for the above statement?" I really have no clue where to start it.
            $endgroup$
            – keqiao li
            Dec 9 '18 at 22:26












          • $begingroup$
            @Bram28Sorry, are you saying "Make Jack the only ancestor of Jill, and Jill the only ancestor of Jack, but do not make them parents of each other."?
            $endgroup$
            – keqiao li
            Dec 10 '18 at 17:28










          • $begingroup$
            @keqiaoli Yes, that's what I am saying. Sorry, yesterday I though there could be a model of size 2 (i.e. with just John and Jill), but to make that work, you need make John the ancestor of Jill (since everyone needs to have an ancestor, but it cannot be themselves), but then because Jill is the parent of John, and John the ancestor of Jill, you get by the recursive definition that Jill is the ancestor of Jill after all, so that does not work. But with Jack as a third person it should work:
            $endgroup$
            – Bram28
            Dec 10 '18 at 17:54


















          • $begingroup$
            Thank you for the response. For d, I don't quite understand. Why use universal quantifier in this case, since the problem is asking for "a common parent".
            $endgroup$
            – keqiao li
            Dec 9 '18 at 22:22










          • $begingroup$
            @keqiaoli Think of the 'a common parent' as 'any common parent'
            $endgroup$
            – Bram28
            Dec 9 '18 at 22:23










          • $begingroup$
            @Bram28I got it. Thank you for your help. Would you mind to provide any hint for the second part of my question : "what is the size of the domain of the smallest possible model for the above statement?" I really have no clue where to start it.
            $endgroup$
            – keqiao li
            Dec 9 '18 at 22:26












          • $begingroup$
            @Bram28Sorry, are you saying "Make Jack the only ancestor of Jill, and Jill the only ancestor of Jack, but do not make them parents of each other."?
            $endgroup$
            – keqiao li
            Dec 10 '18 at 17:28










          • $begingroup$
            @keqiaoli Yes, that's what I am saying. Sorry, yesterday I though there could be a model of size 2 (i.e. with just John and Jill), but to make that work, you need make John the ancestor of Jill (since everyone needs to have an ancestor, but it cannot be themselves), but then because Jill is the parent of John, and John the ancestor of Jill, you get by the recursive definition that Jill is the ancestor of Jill after all, so that does not work. But with Jack as a third person it should work:
            $endgroup$
            – Bram28
            Dec 10 '18 at 17:54
















          $begingroup$
          Thank you for the response. For d, I don't quite understand. Why use universal quantifier in this case, since the problem is asking for "a common parent".
          $endgroup$
          – keqiao li
          Dec 9 '18 at 22:22




          $begingroup$
          Thank you for the response. For d, I don't quite understand. Why use universal quantifier in this case, since the problem is asking for "a common parent".
          $endgroup$
          – keqiao li
          Dec 9 '18 at 22:22












          $begingroup$
          @keqiaoli Think of the 'a common parent' as 'any common parent'
          $endgroup$
          – Bram28
          Dec 9 '18 at 22:23




          $begingroup$
          @keqiaoli Think of the 'a common parent' as 'any common parent'
          $endgroup$
          – Bram28
          Dec 9 '18 at 22:23












          $begingroup$
          @Bram28I got it. Thank you for your help. Would you mind to provide any hint for the second part of my question : "what is the size of the domain of the smallest possible model for the above statement?" I really have no clue where to start it.
          $endgroup$
          – keqiao li
          Dec 9 '18 at 22:26






          $begingroup$
          @Bram28I got it. Thank you for your help. Would you mind to provide any hint for the second part of my question : "what is the size of the domain of the smallest possible model for the above statement?" I really have no clue where to start it.
          $endgroup$
          – keqiao li
          Dec 9 '18 at 22:26














          $begingroup$
          @Bram28Sorry, are you saying "Make Jack the only ancestor of Jill, and Jill the only ancestor of Jack, but do not make them parents of each other."?
          $endgroup$
          – keqiao li
          Dec 10 '18 at 17:28




          $begingroup$
          @Bram28Sorry, are you saying "Make Jack the only ancestor of Jill, and Jill the only ancestor of Jack, but do not make them parents of each other."?
          $endgroup$
          – keqiao li
          Dec 10 '18 at 17:28












          $begingroup$
          @keqiaoli Yes, that's what I am saying. Sorry, yesterday I though there could be a model of size 2 (i.e. with just John and Jill), but to make that work, you need make John the ancestor of Jill (since everyone needs to have an ancestor, but it cannot be themselves), but then because Jill is the parent of John, and John the ancestor of Jill, you get by the recursive definition that Jill is the ancestor of Jill after all, so that does not work. But with Jack as a third person it should work:
          $endgroup$
          – Bram28
          Dec 10 '18 at 17:54




          $begingroup$
          @keqiaoli Yes, that's what I am saying. Sorry, yesterday I though there could be a model of size 2 (i.e. with just John and Jill), but to make that work, you need make John the ancestor of Jill (since everyone needs to have an ancestor, but it cannot be themselves), but then because Jill is the parent of John, and John the ancestor of Jill, you get by the recursive definition that Jill is the ancestor of Jill after all, so that does not work. But with Jack as a third person it should work:
          $endgroup$
          – Bram28
          Dec 10 '18 at 17:54


















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