Idempotence of absolute value: how to show $big| |a| big| = |a|$? [closed]












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How to prove that $big| |a| big| = |a|$? I mean it is somehow obvious as squaring makes numbers positive and the square root is defined as a positive number, but I would appreciate a (long) answer.



Probably by stating that $sqrt{a^2} = sqrt{left(sqrt{a^2}right)^2}$.










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closed as unclear what you're asking by amWhy, Paul Frost, Rebellos, Cesareo, Leucippus Dec 15 '18 at 0:55


Please clarify your specific problem or add additional details to highlight exactly what you need. As it's currently written, it’s hard to tell exactly what you're asking. See the How to Ask page for help clarifying this question. If this question can be reworded to fit the rules in the help center, please edit the question.


















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    Does $big| |a| big|$ mean anything other than the absolute value of the absolute value?
    $endgroup$
    – fleablood
    Dec 14 '18 at 17:37










  • $begingroup$
    If $big| |a| big|$ means $||a||$ then $|a| = a$ if $age 0$ and it equals $-a$ if $a < 0$. Now if $a ge 0$ then $|a|=age 0$. And if $a < 0$ then $|a| =-a > 0$. So either way $|a| ge 0$. so by definition $||a|| = |a|$ if $|a| ge 0$.... which it does.
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    – fleablood
    Dec 14 '18 at 17:39










  • $begingroup$
    i really think it is a pitty to get a downvote since im new here. I am not able to ask any questions for 2 days...
    $endgroup$
    – Ömer F. Yi
    Dec 14 '18 at 19:39










  • $begingroup$
    That seems ridiculous. Are you sure that's the case? I'm up voting to counter.
    $endgroup$
    – fleablood
    Dec 14 '18 at 20:46










  • $begingroup$
    yeah unfortunately, stack exchange recommended me to revise my questions and not ask questions for 2 days..
    $endgroup$
    – Ömer F. Yi
    Dec 15 '18 at 15:02
















0












$begingroup$


How to prove that $big| |a| big| = |a|$? I mean it is somehow obvious as squaring makes numbers positive and the square root is defined as a positive number, but I would appreciate a (long) answer.



Probably by stating that $sqrt{a^2} = sqrt{left(sqrt{a^2}right)^2}$.










share|cite|improve this question











$endgroup$



closed as unclear what you're asking by amWhy, Paul Frost, Rebellos, Cesareo, Leucippus Dec 15 '18 at 0:55


Please clarify your specific problem or add additional details to highlight exactly what you need. As it's currently written, it’s hard to tell exactly what you're asking. See the How to Ask page for help clarifying this question. If this question can be reworded to fit the rules in the help center, please edit the question.


















  • $begingroup$
    Does $big| |a| big|$ mean anything other than the absolute value of the absolute value?
    $endgroup$
    – fleablood
    Dec 14 '18 at 17:37










  • $begingroup$
    If $big| |a| big|$ means $||a||$ then $|a| = a$ if $age 0$ and it equals $-a$ if $a < 0$. Now if $a ge 0$ then $|a|=age 0$. And if $a < 0$ then $|a| =-a > 0$. So either way $|a| ge 0$. so by definition $||a|| = |a|$ if $|a| ge 0$.... which it does.
    $endgroup$
    – fleablood
    Dec 14 '18 at 17:39










  • $begingroup$
    i really think it is a pitty to get a downvote since im new here. I am not able to ask any questions for 2 days...
    $endgroup$
    – Ömer F. Yi
    Dec 14 '18 at 19:39










  • $begingroup$
    That seems ridiculous. Are you sure that's the case? I'm up voting to counter.
    $endgroup$
    – fleablood
    Dec 14 '18 at 20:46










  • $begingroup$
    yeah unfortunately, stack exchange recommended me to revise my questions and not ask questions for 2 days..
    $endgroup$
    – Ömer F. Yi
    Dec 15 '18 at 15:02














0












0








0





$begingroup$


How to prove that $big| |a| big| = |a|$? I mean it is somehow obvious as squaring makes numbers positive and the square root is defined as a positive number, but I would appreciate a (long) answer.



Probably by stating that $sqrt{a^2} = sqrt{left(sqrt{a^2}right)^2}$.










share|cite|improve this question











$endgroup$




How to prove that $big| |a| big| = |a|$? I mean it is somehow obvious as squaring makes numbers positive and the square root is defined as a positive number, but I would appreciate a (long) answer.



Probably by stating that $sqrt{a^2} = sqrt{left(sqrt{a^2}right)^2}$.







algebra-precalculus analysis real-numbers absolute-value






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edited Dec 14 '18 at 18:20









Martin Sleziak

44.7k10118272




44.7k10118272










asked Dec 14 '18 at 17:23









Ömer F. YiÖmer F. Yi

114




114




closed as unclear what you're asking by amWhy, Paul Frost, Rebellos, Cesareo, Leucippus Dec 15 '18 at 0:55


Please clarify your specific problem or add additional details to highlight exactly what you need. As it's currently written, it’s hard to tell exactly what you're asking. See the How to Ask page for help clarifying this question. If this question can be reworded to fit the rules in the help center, please edit the question.









closed as unclear what you're asking by amWhy, Paul Frost, Rebellos, Cesareo, Leucippus Dec 15 '18 at 0:55


Please clarify your specific problem or add additional details to highlight exactly what you need. As it's currently written, it’s hard to tell exactly what you're asking. See the How to Ask page for help clarifying this question. If this question can be reworded to fit the rules in the help center, please edit the question.














  • $begingroup$
    Does $big| |a| big|$ mean anything other than the absolute value of the absolute value?
    $endgroup$
    – fleablood
    Dec 14 '18 at 17:37










  • $begingroup$
    If $big| |a| big|$ means $||a||$ then $|a| = a$ if $age 0$ and it equals $-a$ if $a < 0$. Now if $a ge 0$ then $|a|=age 0$. And if $a < 0$ then $|a| =-a > 0$. So either way $|a| ge 0$. so by definition $||a|| = |a|$ if $|a| ge 0$.... which it does.
    $endgroup$
    – fleablood
    Dec 14 '18 at 17:39










  • $begingroup$
    i really think it is a pitty to get a downvote since im new here. I am not able to ask any questions for 2 days...
    $endgroup$
    – Ömer F. Yi
    Dec 14 '18 at 19:39










  • $begingroup$
    That seems ridiculous. Are you sure that's the case? I'm up voting to counter.
    $endgroup$
    – fleablood
    Dec 14 '18 at 20:46










  • $begingroup$
    yeah unfortunately, stack exchange recommended me to revise my questions and not ask questions for 2 days..
    $endgroup$
    – Ömer F. Yi
    Dec 15 '18 at 15:02


















  • $begingroup$
    Does $big| |a| big|$ mean anything other than the absolute value of the absolute value?
    $endgroup$
    – fleablood
    Dec 14 '18 at 17:37










  • $begingroup$
    If $big| |a| big|$ means $||a||$ then $|a| = a$ if $age 0$ and it equals $-a$ if $a < 0$. Now if $a ge 0$ then $|a|=age 0$. And if $a < 0$ then $|a| =-a > 0$. So either way $|a| ge 0$. so by definition $||a|| = |a|$ if $|a| ge 0$.... which it does.
    $endgroup$
    – fleablood
    Dec 14 '18 at 17:39










  • $begingroup$
    i really think it is a pitty to get a downvote since im new here. I am not able to ask any questions for 2 days...
    $endgroup$
    – Ömer F. Yi
    Dec 14 '18 at 19:39










  • $begingroup$
    That seems ridiculous. Are you sure that's the case? I'm up voting to counter.
    $endgroup$
    – fleablood
    Dec 14 '18 at 20:46










  • $begingroup$
    yeah unfortunately, stack exchange recommended me to revise my questions and not ask questions for 2 days..
    $endgroup$
    – Ömer F. Yi
    Dec 15 '18 at 15:02
















$begingroup$
Does $big| |a| big|$ mean anything other than the absolute value of the absolute value?
$endgroup$
– fleablood
Dec 14 '18 at 17:37




$begingroup$
Does $big| |a| big|$ mean anything other than the absolute value of the absolute value?
$endgroup$
– fleablood
Dec 14 '18 at 17:37












$begingroup$
If $big| |a| big|$ means $||a||$ then $|a| = a$ if $age 0$ and it equals $-a$ if $a < 0$. Now if $a ge 0$ then $|a|=age 0$. And if $a < 0$ then $|a| =-a > 0$. So either way $|a| ge 0$. so by definition $||a|| = |a|$ if $|a| ge 0$.... which it does.
$endgroup$
– fleablood
Dec 14 '18 at 17:39




$begingroup$
If $big| |a| big|$ means $||a||$ then $|a| = a$ if $age 0$ and it equals $-a$ if $a < 0$. Now if $a ge 0$ then $|a|=age 0$. And if $a < 0$ then $|a| =-a > 0$. So either way $|a| ge 0$. so by definition $||a|| = |a|$ if $|a| ge 0$.... which it does.
$endgroup$
– fleablood
Dec 14 '18 at 17:39












$begingroup$
i really think it is a pitty to get a downvote since im new here. I am not able to ask any questions for 2 days...
$endgroup$
– Ömer F. Yi
Dec 14 '18 at 19:39




$begingroup$
i really think it is a pitty to get a downvote since im new here. I am not able to ask any questions for 2 days...
$endgroup$
– Ömer F. Yi
Dec 14 '18 at 19:39












$begingroup$
That seems ridiculous. Are you sure that's the case? I'm up voting to counter.
$endgroup$
– fleablood
Dec 14 '18 at 20:46




$begingroup$
That seems ridiculous. Are you sure that's the case? I'm up voting to counter.
$endgroup$
– fleablood
Dec 14 '18 at 20:46












$begingroup$
yeah unfortunately, stack exchange recommended me to revise my questions and not ask questions for 2 days..
$endgroup$
– Ömer F. Yi
Dec 15 '18 at 15:02




$begingroup$
yeah unfortunately, stack exchange recommended me to revise my questions and not ask questions for 2 days..
$endgroup$
– Ömer F. Yi
Dec 15 '18 at 15:02










3 Answers
3






active

oldest

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0












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Basically as $|m|$ is always positive then $||a||$ is the absolute value or a positive number. And as absolute values maintain magnitude, it is a positive number with the same magintude as a positive number. I.e. itself.



If you use a formal definition such as:



Definition 1: If $a in mathbb R$ and and $a ge 0$ then $|a| = a$. If $a < 0$ then $|a|=-a$.



Immediate Proposition: $|a| ge 0$ always.



Proof: If $a ge 0$ then $|a|= age 0$. If $a < 0$ then $|a| = -a > 0$.



So if $|a| ge 0$ (which is always true) then $||a|| = |a|$. DOne.



Definition 2: If $a in mathbb C$ and if we accept that $aoverline ain mathbb R^+$ (see proof) then $|a| = sqrt{aoverline a}$.



Acceptence proof that $aoverline ain mathbb R^+$: First if $a = e + di$ where $e,d$ are real then $aoverline a =(e+di)(e-di) = e^2 +edi - edi - d^2i^2 = e^2 -(-d^2) = e^2+d^2$. $e^2$ and $d^2$ are both non-negative real numbers so $e^2 + d^2$ is too.



So $ain mathbb C$ then $|a| = k$ for some non-negative real number. Then $|a| = k + 0i$ and $overline {|a|} = k - 0i=k$ and $|a|overline{|a|}= k*k=k^2$. And so $||a|| = sqrt{k^2} = k=|a|$ (because $kge 0$.)



Now there are a lot of basic axioms and propositions I have taken for granted:



I assume without verification that: For any real $m$ that $m^2 ge 0$; and that: for any real $mge 0$ there exists a unique non-negative real number that I call $sqrt{m}$ so that $(sqrt{m})^2= m$.



[It's trivial to verify that if $kge 0$ then $sqrt{k^2} =k$. That follows as there is a unique number $sqrt{k^2}$ so that $sqrt{k^2}^2 = k^2$ and $k$ is such a number such that $k^2 = k^2$. Since such a number is unique $sqrt{k^2} = k$.]



....



You ask in comments how to verify that a negative times a negative is negative:



1) $0*m = 0$. Pf: $0*m = (0+0)m = 0*m + 0*m$ so $0 = 0*m - 0*m = 0*m + 0*m - 0*m = 0*m$.



2) $-(ab)=(-a)b= a(-b)$. $0b = (a + (-a))b = ab + (-a)b$ as $(-a)b = -(ab)$. The rest is the same.



Axiom: If $a< b$ then $a+c < b+c$ for all $c$.



3) If $ a> 0$ then $-a < 0$ and if $a< 0$ then $-a> 0$. Pf: $a> 0$ then $a+(-a) > 0 +(-a) $ so $0 > -a$. Ther rest is the same.



Axiom: If $a < b$ and $c > 0$ then $ac < bc$.



4)positive times positive is positive: Pf: Let $a > 0; b> 0$. Then $ab > 0b =0$.



5) Positive times negative is negative. Pf: Let $a > 0$ and $b<0$ then $-b > 0$ so $a(-b)=-ab > 0$ and so $ab < 0$.



6) Negative times a negative is positive: Pf: Let $a < 0$ and $b< 0$ then $-a > 0$ and $-ab < 0$ and so $-(-ab) > 0$ and so $ab > 0$.....



Oops I forgot :



3 $frac 12$) $-(-m) = m$. Pf: $m+ (-m) = 0$ so $m = -(-m)$.



The final thing I took for granted was that if $k ge 0$ then there exists a unique $a ge 0$ so that $a^2= k$. We call that $a$ the radical of $k$ or $sqrt{k}$.



To prove that we need some definitions about the completenes of the real numbers and I'm not going to get into that heare.






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  • $begingroup$
    thanks for the efforts
    $endgroup$
    – Ömer F. Yi
    Dec 14 '18 at 18:32



















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Go by the basic definition of the modulus function.



$|x|=begin{cases}x,&xge0\-x,&x<0end{cases}$



Since $|x|ge0, Big||x|Big|=|x|$






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  • $begingroup$
    ah ok we can do a substitution and write |x|=: z since z is greater 0 it stays z so ||x||=|x|. thanks great answer. i have a got another axiomatic question. how to prove that negative times negative is positive. i thought about this. any negative answer could be written an the inverse of a positive number. say a>0 => -a<0. -a*-a = --(aa) = aa . Prove be x a real number. --x = x add -x broth sides and applying definition of an inverse since --x is an inverse of -x => 0=0. Right ?
    $endgroup$
    – Ömer F. Yi
    Dec 14 '18 at 17:34










  • $begingroup$
    Depends on your axioms. But if $a > 0$ then $0=a+(-a) > 0+(-a)=-a$ so $-a < 0$ is the first step. We (probably) have an axiom that if $c>0; a<b$ then $ac<bc$ so $a>0;b>0$ means $ab>0*b=0$ and $a>0;b<0$ mean $ab<0$ and if finally if $a<0;b<0$ then $-a>0;b<0$ so $-ab<0$ and $ab > 0$. (But this assumes: 1)$0*a=0$ 2) $(-a)b=-(ab)$ which will probably need to be proven.
    $endgroup$
    – fleablood
    Dec 14 '18 at 17:44












  • $begingroup$
    If you have got another question, you should probably post it instead of asking in the comments. I'll be glad to help if I can. It is really hard to make out your arguments right now.
    $endgroup$
    – Shubham Johri
    Dec 14 '18 at 17:44










  • $begingroup$
    thanks a lot, new to the community and proud to see such an effort to help- amazing.
    $endgroup$
    – Ömer F. Yi
    Dec 14 '18 at 18:28



















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By definition, $|x| = x$ when $x ge 0$, and $|x| = -x$ when $x < 0$. Since $|a|$ is non-negative, $big||a|big| = |a|$.






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    3 Answers
    3






    active

    oldest

    votes








    3 Answers
    3






    active

    oldest

    votes









    active

    oldest

    votes






    active

    oldest

    votes









    0












    $begingroup$

    Basically as $|m|$ is always positive then $||a||$ is the absolute value or a positive number. And as absolute values maintain magnitude, it is a positive number with the same magintude as a positive number. I.e. itself.



    If you use a formal definition such as:



    Definition 1: If $a in mathbb R$ and and $a ge 0$ then $|a| = a$. If $a < 0$ then $|a|=-a$.



    Immediate Proposition: $|a| ge 0$ always.



    Proof: If $a ge 0$ then $|a|= age 0$. If $a < 0$ then $|a| = -a > 0$.



    So if $|a| ge 0$ (which is always true) then $||a|| = |a|$. DOne.



    Definition 2: If $a in mathbb C$ and if we accept that $aoverline ain mathbb R^+$ (see proof) then $|a| = sqrt{aoverline a}$.



    Acceptence proof that $aoverline ain mathbb R^+$: First if $a = e + di$ where $e,d$ are real then $aoverline a =(e+di)(e-di) = e^2 +edi - edi - d^2i^2 = e^2 -(-d^2) = e^2+d^2$. $e^2$ and $d^2$ are both non-negative real numbers so $e^2 + d^2$ is too.



    So $ain mathbb C$ then $|a| = k$ for some non-negative real number. Then $|a| = k + 0i$ and $overline {|a|} = k - 0i=k$ and $|a|overline{|a|}= k*k=k^2$. And so $||a|| = sqrt{k^2} = k=|a|$ (because $kge 0$.)



    Now there are a lot of basic axioms and propositions I have taken for granted:



    I assume without verification that: For any real $m$ that $m^2 ge 0$; and that: for any real $mge 0$ there exists a unique non-negative real number that I call $sqrt{m}$ so that $(sqrt{m})^2= m$.



    [It's trivial to verify that if $kge 0$ then $sqrt{k^2} =k$. That follows as there is a unique number $sqrt{k^2}$ so that $sqrt{k^2}^2 = k^2$ and $k$ is such a number such that $k^2 = k^2$. Since such a number is unique $sqrt{k^2} = k$.]



    ....



    You ask in comments how to verify that a negative times a negative is negative:



    1) $0*m = 0$. Pf: $0*m = (0+0)m = 0*m + 0*m$ so $0 = 0*m - 0*m = 0*m + 0*m - 0*m = 0*m$.



    2) $-(ab)=(-a)b= a(-b)$. $0b = (a + (-a))b = ab + (-a)b$ as $(-a)b = -(ab)$. The rest is the same.



    Axiom: If $a< b$ then $a+c < b+c$ for all $c$.



    3) If $ a> 0$ then $-a < 0$ and if $a< 0$ then $-a> 0$. Pf: $a> 0$ then $a+(-a) > 0 +(-a) $ so $0 > -a$. Ther rest is the same.



    Axiom: If $a < b$ and $c > 0$ then $ac < bc$.



    4)positive times positive is positive: Pf: Let $a > 0; b> 0$. Then $ab > 0b =0$.



    5) Positive times negative is negative. Pf: Let $a > 0$ and $b<0$ then $-b > 0$ so $a(-b)=-ab > 0$ and so $ab < 0$.



    6) Negative times a negative is positive: Pf: Let $a < 0$ and $b< 0$ then $-a > 0$ and $-ab < 0$ and so $-(-ab) > 0$ and so $ab > 0$.....



    Oops I forgot :



    3 $frac 12$) $-(-m) = m$. Pf: $m+ (-m) = 0$ so $m = -(-m)$.



    The final thing I took for granted was that if $k ge 0$ then there exists a unique $a ge 0$ so that $a^2= k$. We call that $a$ the radical of $k$ or $sqrt{k}$.



    To prove that we need some definitions about the completenes of the real numbers and I'm not going to get into that heare.






    share|cite|improve this answer











    $endgroup$













    • $begingroup$
      thanks for the efforts
      $endgroup$
      – Ömer F. Yi
      Dec 14 '18 at 18:32
















    0












    $begingroup$

    Basically as $|m|$ is always positive then $||a||$ is the absolute value or a positive number. And as absolute values maintain magnitude, it is a positive number with the same magintude as a positive number. I.e. itself.



    If you use a formal definition such as:



    Definition 1: If $a in mathbb R$ and and $a ge 0$ then $|a| = a$. If $a < 0$ then $|a|=-a$.



    Immediate Proposition: $|a| ge 0$ always.



    Proof: If $a ge 0$ then $|a|= age 0$. If $a < 0$ then $|a| = -a > 0$.



    So if $|a| ge 0$ (which is always true) then $||a|| = |a|$. DOne.



    Definition 2: If $a in mathbb C$ and if we accept that $aoverline ain mathbb R^+$ (see proof) then $|a| = sqrt{aoverline a}$.



    Acceptence proof that $aoverline ain mathbb R^+$: First if $a = e + di$ where $e,d$ are real then $aoverline a =(e+di)(e-di) = e^2 +edi - edi - d^2i^2 = e^2 -(-d^2) = e^2+d^2$. $e^2$ and $d^2$ are both non-negative real numbers so $e^2 + d^2$ is too.



    So $ain mathbb C$ then $|a| = k$ for some non-negative real number. Then $|a| = k + 0i$ and $overline {|a|} = k - 0i=k$ and $|a|overline{|a|}= k*k=k^2$. And so $||a|| = sqrt{k^2} = k=|a|$ (because $kge 0$.)



    Now there are a lot of basic axioms and propositions I have taken for granted:



    I assume without verification that: For any real $m$ that $m^2 ge 0$; and that: for any real $mge 0$ there exists a unique non-negative real number that I call $sqrt{m}$ so that $(sqrt{m})^2= m$.



    [It's trivial to verify that if $kge 0$ then $sqrt{k^2} =k$. That follows as there is a unique number $sqrt{k^2}$ so that $sqrt{k^2}^2 = k^2$ and $k$ is such a number such that $k^2 = k^2$. Since such a number is unique $sqrt{k^2} = k$.]



    ....



    You ask in comments how to verify that a negative times a negative is negative:



    1) $0*m = 0$. Pf: $0*m = (0+0)m = 0*m + 0*m$ so $0 = 0*m - 0*m = 0*m + 0*m - 0*m = 0*m$.



    2) $-(ab)=(-a)b= a(-b)$. $0b = (a + (-a))b = ab + (-a)b$ as $(-a)b = -(ab)$. The rest is the same.



    Axiom: If $a< b$ then $a+c < b+c$ for all $c$.



    3) If $ a> 0$ then $-a < 0$ and if $a< 0$ then $-a> 0$. Pf: $a> 0$ then $a+(-a) > 0 +(-a) $ so $0 > -a$. Ther rest is the same.



    Axiom: If $a < b$ and $c > 0$ then $ac < bc$.



    4)positive times positive is positive: Pf: Let $a > 0; b> 0$. Then $ab > 0b =0$.



    5) Positive times negative is negative. Pf: Let $a > 0$ and $b<0$ then $-b > 0$ so $a(-b)=-ab > 0$ and so $ab < 0$.



    6) Negative times a negative is positive: Pf: Let $a < 0$ and $b< 0$ then $-a > 0$ and $-ab < 0$ and so $-(-ab) > 0$ and so $ab > 0$.....



    Oops I forgot :



    3 $frac 12$) $-(-m) = m$. Pf: $m+ (-m) = 0$ so $m = -(-m)$.



    The final thing I took for granted was that if $k ge 0$ then there exists a unique $a ge 0$ so that $a^2= k$. We call that $a$ the radical of $k$ or $sqrt{k}$.



    To prove that we need some definitions about the completenes of the real numbers and I'm not going to get into that heare.






    share|cite|improve this answer











    $endgroup$













    • $begingroup$
      thanks for the efforts
      $endgroup$
      – Ömer F. Yi
      Dec 14 '18 at 18:32














    0












    0








    0





    $begingroup$

    Basically as $|m|$ is always positive then $||a||$ is the absolute value or a positive number. And as absolute values maintain magnitude, it is a positive number with the same magintude as a positive number. I.e. itself.



    If you use a formal definition such as:



    Definition 1: If $a in mathbb R$ and and $a ge 0$ then $|a| = a$. If $a < 0$ then $|a|=-a$.



    Immediate Proposition: $|a| ge 0$ always.



    Proof: If $a ge 0$ then $|a|= age 0$. If $a < 0$ then $|a| = -a > 0$.



    So if $|a| ge 0$ (which is always true) then $||a|| = |a|$. DOne.



    Definition 2: If $a in mathbb C$ and if we accept that $aoverline ain mathbb R^+$ (see proof) then $|a| = sqrt{aoverline a}$.



    Acceptence proof that $aoverline ain mathbb R^+$: First if $a = e + di$ where $e,d$ are real then $aoverline a =(e+di)(e-di) = e^2 +edi - edi - d^2i^2 = e^2 -(-d^2) = e^2+d^2$. $e^2$ and $d^2$ are both non-negative real numbers so $e^2 + d^2$ is too.



    So $ain mathbb C$ then $|a| = k$ for some non-negative real number. Then $|a| = k + 0i$ and $overline {|a|} = k - 0i=k$ and $|a|overline{|a|}= k*k=k^2$. And so $||a|| = sqrt{k^2} = k=|a|$ (because $kge 0$.)



    Now there are a lot of basic axioms and propositions I have taken for granted:



    I assume without verification that: For any real $m$ that $m^2 ge 0$; and that: for any real $mge 0$ there exists a unique non-negative real number that I call $sqrt{m}$ so that $(sqrt{m})^2= m$.



    [It's trivial to verify that if $kge 0$ then $sqrt{k^2} =k$. That follows as there is a unique number $sqrt{k^2}$ so that $sqrt{k^2}^2 = k^2$ and $k$ is such a number such that $k^2 = k^2$. Since such a number is unique $sqrt{k^2} = k$.]



    ....



    You ask in comments how to verify that a negative times a negative is negative:



    1) $0*m = 0$. Pf: $0*m = (0+0)m = 0*m + 0*m$ so $0 = 0*m - 0*m = 0*m + 0*m - 0*m = 0*m$.



    2) $-(ab)=(-a)b= a(-b)$. $0b = (a + (-a))b = ab + (-a)b$ as $(-a)b = -(ab)$. The rest is the same.



    Axiom: If $a< b$ then $a+c < b+c$ for all $c$.



    3) If $ a> 0$ then $-a < 0$ and if $a< 0$ then $-a> 0$. Pf: $a> 0$ then $a+(-a) > 0 +(-a) $ so $0 > -a$. Ther rest is the same.



    Axiom: If $a < b$ and $c > 0$ then $ac < bc$.



    4)positive times positive is positive: Pf: Let $a > 0; b> 0$. Then $ab > 0b =0$.



    5) Positive times negative is negative. Pf: Let $a > 0$ and $b<0$ then $-b > 0$ so $a(-b)=-ab > 0$ and so $ab < 0$.



    6) Negative times a negative is positive: Pf: Let $a < 0$ and $b< 0$ then $-a > 0$ and $-ab < 0$ and so $-(-ab) > 0$ and so $ab > 0$.....



    Oops I forgot :



    3 $frac 12$) $-(-m) = m$. Pf: $m+ (-m) = 0$ so $m = -(-m)$.



    The final thing I took for granted was that if $k ge 0$ then there exists a unique $a ge 0$ so that $a^2= k$. We call that $a$ the radical of $k$ or $sqrt{k}$.



    To prove that we need some definitions about the completenes of the real numbers and I'm not going to get into that heare.






    share|cite|improve this answer











    $endgroup$



    Basically as $|m|$ is always positive then $||a||$ is the absolute value or a positive number. And as absolute values maintain magnitude, it is a positive number with the same magintude as a positive number. I.e. itself.



    If you use a formal definition such as:



    Definition 1: If $a in mathbb R$ and and $a ge 0$ then $|a| = a$. If $a < 0$ then $|a|=-a$.



    Immediate Proposition: $|a| ge 0$ always.



    Proof: If $a ge 0$ then $|a|= age 0$. If $a < 0$ then $|a| = -a > 0$.



    So if $|a| ge 0$ (which is always true) then $||a|| = |a|$. DOne.



    Definition 2: If $a in mathbb C$ and if we accept that $aoverline ain mathbb R^+$ (see proof) then $|a| = sqrt{aoverline a}$.



    Acceptence proof that $aoverline ain mathbb R^+$: First if $a = e + di$ where $e,d$ are real then $aoverline a =(e+di)(e-di) = e^2 +edi - edi - d^2i^2 = e^2 -(-d^2) = e^2+d^2$. $e^2$ and $d^2$ are both non-negative real numbers so $e^2 + d^2$ is too.



    So $ain mathbb C$ then $|a| = k$ for some non-negative real number. Then $|a| = k + 0i$ and $overline {|a|} = k - 0i=k$ and $|a|overline{|a|}= k*k=k^2$. And so $||a|| = sqrt{k^2} = k=|a|$ (because $kge 0$.)



    Now there are a lot of basic axioms and propositions I have taken for granted:



    I assume without verification that: For any real $m$ that $m^2 ge 0$; and that: for any real $mge 0$ there exists a unique non-negative real number that I call $sqrt{m}$ so that $(sqrt{m})^2= m$.



    [It's trivial to verify that if $kge 0$ then $sqrt{k^2} =k$. That follows as there is a unique number $sqrt{k^2}$ so that $sqrt{k^2}^2 = k^2$ and $k$ is such a number such that $k^2 = k^2$. Since such a number is unique $sqrt{k^2} = k$.]



    ....



    You ask in comments how to verify that a negative times a negative is negative:



    1) $0*m = 0$. Pf: $0*m = (0+0)m = 0*m + 0*m$ so $0 = 0*m - 0*m = 0*m + 0*m - 0*m = 0*m$.



    2) $-(ab)=(-a)b= a(-b)$. $0b = (a + (-a))b = ab + (-a)b$ as $(-a)b = -(ab)$. The rest is the same.



    Axiom: If $a< b$ then $a+c < b+c$ for all $c$.



    3) If $ a> 0$ then $-a < 0$ and if $a< 0$ then $-a> 0$. Pf: $a> 0$ then $a+(-a) > 0 +(-a) $ so $0 > -a$. Ther rest is the same.



    Axiom: If $a < b$ and $c > 0$ then $ac < bc$.



    4)positive times positive is positive: Pf: Let $a > 0; b> 0$. Then $ab > 0b =0$.



    5) Positive times negative is negative. Pf: Let $a > 0$ and $b<0$ then $-b > 0$ so $a(-b)=-ab > 0$ and so $ab < 0$.



    6) Negative times a negative is positive: Pf: Let $a < 0$ and $b< 0$ then $-a > 0$ and $-ab < 0$ and so $-(-ab) > 0$ and so $ab > 0$.....



    Oops I forgot :



    3 $frac 12$) $-(-m) = m$. Pf: $m+ (-m) = 0$ so $m = -(-m)$.



    The final thing I took for granted was that if $k ge 0$ then there exists a unique $a ge 0$ so that $a^2= k$. We call that $a$ the radical of $k$ or $sqrt{k}$.



    To prove that we need some definitions about the completenes of the real numbers and I'm not going to get into that heare.







    share|cite|improve this answer














    share|cite|improve this answer



    share|cite|improve this answer








    edited Dec 14 '18 at 20:47

























    answered Dec 14 '18 at 18:22









    fleabloodfleablood

    71k22686




    71k22686












    • $begingroup$
      thanks for the efforts
      $endgroup$
      – Ömer F. Yi
      Dec 14 '18 at 18:32


















    • $begingroup$
      thanks for the efforts
      $endgroup$
      – Ömer F. Yi
      Dec 14 '18 at 18:32
















    $begingroup$
    thanks for the efforts
    $endgroup$
    – Ömer F. Yi
    Dec 14 '18 at 18:32




    $begingroup$
    thanks for the efforts
    $endgroup$
    – Ömer F. Yi
    Dec 14 '18 at 18:32











    3












    $begingroup$

    Go by the basic definition of the modulus function.



    $|x|=begin{cases}x,&xge0\-x,&x<0end{cases}$



    Since $|x|ge0, Big||x|Big|=|x|$






    share|cite|improve this answer









    $endgroup$













    • $begingroup$
      ah ok we can do a substitution and write |x|=: z since z is greater 0 it stays z so ||x||=|x|. thanks great answer. i have a got another axiomatic question. how to prove that negative times negative is positive. i thought about this. any negative answer could be written an the inverse of a positive number. say a>0 => -a<0. -a*-a = --(aa) = aa . Prove be x a real number. --x = x add -x broth sides and applying definition of an inverse since --x is an inverse of -x => 0=0. Right ?
      $endgroup$
      – Ömer F. Yi
      Dec 14 '18 at 17:34










    • $begingroup$
      Depends on your axioms. But if $a > 0$ then $0=a+(-a) > 0+(-a)=-a$ so $-a < 0$ is the first step. We (probably) have an axiom that if $c>0; a<b$ then $ac<bc$ so $a>0;b>0$ means $ab>0*b=0$ and $a>0;b<0$ mean $ab<0$ and if finally if $a<0;b<0$ then $-a>0;b<0$ so $-ab<0$ and $ab > 0$. (But this assumes: 1)$0*a=0$ 2) $(-a)b=-(ab)$ which will probably need to be proven.
      $endgroup$
      – fleablood
      Dec 14 '18 at 17:44












    • $begingroup$
      If you have got another question, you should probably post it instead of asking in the comments. I'll be glad to help if I can. It is really hard to make out your arguments right now.
      $endgroup$
      – Shubham Johri
      Dec 14 '18 at 17:44










    • $begingroup$
      thanks a lot, new to the community and proud to see such an effort to help- amazing.
      $endgroup$
      – Ömer F. Yi
      Dec 14 '18 at 18:28
















    3












    $begingroup$

    Go by the basic definition of the modulus function.



    $|x|=begin{cases}x,&xge0\-x,&x<0end{cases}$



    Since $|x|ge0, Big||x|Big|=|x|$






    share|cite|improve this answer









    $endgroup$













    • $begingroup$
      ah ok we can do a substitution and write |x|=: z since z is greater 0 it stays z so ||x||=|x|. thanks great answer. i have a got another axiomatic question. how to prove that negative times negative is positive. i thought about this. any negative answer could be written an the inverse of a positive number. say a>0 => -a<0. -a*-a = --(aa) = aa . Prove be x a real number. --x = x add -x broth sides and applying definition of an inverse since --x is an inverse of -x => 0=0. Right ?
      $endgroup$
      – Ömer F. Yi
      Dec 14 '18 at 17:34










    • $begingroup$
      Depends on your axioms. But if $a > 0$ then $0=a+(-a) > 0+(-a)=-a$ so $-a < 0$ is the first step. We (probably) have an axiom that if $c>0; a<b$ then $ac<bc$ so $a>0;b>0$ means $ab>0*b=0$ and $a>0;b<0$ mean $ab<0$ and if finally if $a<0;b<0$ then $-a>0;b<0$ so $-ab<0$ and $ab > 0$. (But this assumes: 1)$0*a=0$ 2) $(-a)b=-(ab)$ which will probably need to be proven.
      $endgroup$
      – fleablood
      Dec 14 '18 at 17:44












    • $begingroup$
      If you have got another question, you should probably post it instead of asking in the comments. I'll be glad to help if I can. It is really hard to make out your arguments right now.
      $endgroup$
      – Shubham Johri
      Dec 14 '18 at 17:44










    • $begingroup$
      thanks a lot, new to the community and proud to see such an effort to help- amazing.
      $endgroup$
      – Ömer F. Yi
      Dec 14 '18 at 18:28














    3












    3








    3





    $begingroup$

    Go by the basic definition of the modulus function.



    $|x|=begin{cases}x,&xge0\-x,&x<0end{cases}$



    Since $|x|ge0, Big||x|Big|=|x|$






    share|cite|improve this answer









    $endgroup$



    Go by the basic definition of the modulus function.



    $|x|=begin{cases}x,&xge0\-x,&x<0end{cases}$



    Since $|x|ge0, Big||x|Big|=|x|$







    share|cite|improve this answer












    share|cite|improve this answer



    share|cite|improve this answer










    answered Dec 14 '18 at 17:27









    Shubham JohriShubham Johri

    5,192717




    5,192717












    • $begingroup$
      ah ok we can do a substitution and write |x|=: z since z is greater 0 it stays z so ||x||=|x|. thanks great answer. i have a got another axiomatic question. how to prove that negative times negative is positive. i thought about this. any negative answer could be written an the inverse of a positive number. say a>0 => -a<0. -a*-a = --(aa) = aa . Prove be x a real number. --x = x add -x broth sides and applying definition of an inverse since --x is an inverse of -x => 0=0. Right ?
      $endgroup$
      – Ömer F. Yi
      Dec 14 '18 at 17:34










    • $begingroup$
      Depends on your axioms. But if $a > 0$ then $0=a+(-a) > 0+(-a)=-a$ so $-a < 0$ is the first step. We (probably) have an axiom that if $c>0; a<b$ then $ac<bc$ so $a>0;b>0$ means $ab>0*b=0$ and $a>0;b<0$ mean $ab<0$ and if finally if $a<0;b<0$ then $-a>0;b<0$ so $-ab<0$ and $ab > 0$. (But this assumes: 1)$0*a=0$ 2) $(-a)b=-(ab)$ which will probably need to be proven.
      $endgroup$
      – fleablood
      Dec 14 '18 at 17:44












    • $begingroup$
      If you have got another question, you should probably post it instead of asking in the comments. I'll be glad to help if I can. It is really hard to make out your arguments right now.
      $endgroup$
      – Shubham Johri
      Dec 14 '18 at 17:44










    • $begingroup$
      thanks a lot, new to the community and proud to see such an effort to help- amazing.
      $endgroup$
      – Ömer F. Yi
      Dec 14 '18 at 18:28


















    • $begingroup$
      ah ok we can do a substitution and write |x|=: z since z is greater 0 it stays z so ||x||=|x|. thanks great answer. i have a got another axiomatic question. how to prove that negative times negative is positive. i thought about this. any negative answer could be written an the inverse of a positive number. say a>0 => -a<0. -a*-a = --(aa) = aa . Prove be x a real number. --x = x add -x broth sides and applying definition of an inverse since --x is an inverse of -x => 0=0. Right ?
      $endgroup$
      – Ömer F. Yi
      Dec 14 '18 at 17:34










    • $begingroup$
      Depends on your axioms. But if $a > 0$ then $0=a+(-a) > 0+(-a)=-a$ so $-a < 0$ is the first step. We (probably) have an axiom that if $c>0; a<b$ then $ac<bc$ so $a>0;b>0$ means $ab>0*b=0$ and $a>0;b<0$ mean $ab<0$ and if finally if $a<0;b<0$ then $-a>0;b<0$ so $-ab<0$ and $ab > 0$. (But this assumes: 1)$0*a=0$ 2) $(-a)b=-(ab)$ which will probably need to be proven.
      $endgroup$
      – fleablood
      Dec 14 '18 at 17:44












    • $begingroup$
      If you have got another question, you should probably post it instead of asking in the comments. I'll be glad to help if I can. It is really hard to make out your arguments right now.
      $endgroup$
      – Shubham Johri
      Dec 14 '18 at 17:44










    • $begingroup$
      thanks a lot, new to the community and proud to see such an effort to help- amazing.
      $endgroup$
      – Ömer F. Yi
      Dec 14 '18 at 18:28
















    $begingroup$
    ah ok we can do a substitution and write |x|=: z since z is greater 0 it stays z so ||x||=|x|. thanks great answer. i have a got another axiomatic question. how to prove that negative times negative is positive. i thought about this. any negative answer could be written an the inverse of a positive number. say a>0 => -a<0. -a*-a = --(aa) = aa . Prove be x a real number. --x = x add -x broth sides and applying definition of an inverse since --x is an inverse of -x => 0=0. Right ?
    $endgroup$
    – Ömer F. Yi
    Dec 14 '18 at 17:34




    $begingroup$
    ah ok we can do a substitution and write |x|=: z since z is greater 0 it stays z so ||x||=|x|. thanks great answer. i have a got another axiomatic question. how to prove that negative times negative is positive. i thought about this. any negative answer could be written an the inverse of a positive number. say a>0 => -a<0. -a*-a = --(aa) = aa . Prove be x a real number. --x = x add -x broth sides and applying definition of an inverse since --x is an inverse of -x => 0=0. Right ?
    $endgroup$
    – Ömer F. Yi
    Dec 14 '18 at 17:34












    $begingroup$
    Depends on your axioms. But if $a > 0$ then $0=a+(-a) > 0+(-a)=-a$ so $-a < 0$ is the first step. We (probably) have an axiom that if $c>0; a<b$ then $ac<bc$ so $a>0;b>0$ means $ab>0*b=0$ and $a>0;b<0$ mean $ab<0$ and if finally if $a<0;b<0$ then $-a>0;b<0$ so $-ab<0$ and $ab > 0$. (But this assumes: 1)$0*a=0$ 2) $(-a)b=-(ab)$ which will probably need to be proven.
    $endgroup$
    – fleablood
    Dec 14 '18 at 17:44






    $begingroup$
    Depends on your axioms. But if $a > 0$ then $0=a+(-a) > 0+(-a)=-a$ so $-a < 0$ is the first step. We (probably) have an axiom that if $c>0; a<b$ then $ac<bc$ so $a>0;b>0$ means $ab>0*b=0$ and $a>0;b<0$ mean $ab<0$ and if finally if $a<0;b<0$ then $-a>0;b<0$ so $-ab<0$ and $ab > 0$. (But this assumes: 1)$0*a=0$ 2) $(-a)b=-(ab)$ which will probably need to be proven.
    $endgroup$
    – fleablood
    Dec 14 '18 at 17:44














    $begingroup$
    If you have got another question, you should probably post it instead of asking in the comments. I'll be glad to help if I can. It is really hard to make out your arguments right now.
    $endgroup$
    – Shubham Johri
    Dec 14 '18 at 17:44




    $begingroup$
    If you have got another question, you should probably post it instead of asking in the comments. I'll be glad to help if I can. It is really hard to make out your arguments right now.
    $endgroup$
    – Shubham Johri
    Dec 14 '18 at 17:44












    $begingroup$
    thanks a lot, new to the community and proud to see such an effort to help- amazing.
    $endgroup$
    – Ömer F. Yi
    Dec 14 '18 at 18:28




    $begingroup$
    thanks a lot, new to the community and proud to see such an effort to help- amazing.
    $endgroup$
    – Ömer F. Yi
    Dec 14 '18 at 18:28











    2












    $begingroup$

    By definition, $|x| = x$ when $x ge 0$, and $|x| = -x$ when $x < 0$. Since $|a|$ is non-negative, $big||a|big| = |a|$.






    share|cite|improve this answer











    $endgroup$


















      2












      $begingroup$

      By definition, $|x| = x$ when $x ge 0$, and $|x| = -x$ when $x < 0$. Since $|a|$ is non-negative, $big||a|big| = |a|$.






      share|cite|improve this answer











      $endgroup$
















        2












        2








        2





        $begingroup$

        By definition, $|x| = x$ when $x ge 0$, and $|x| = -x$ when $x < 0$. Since $|a|$ is non-negative, $big||a|big| = |a|$.






        share|cite|improve this answer











        $endgroup$



        By definition, $|x| = x$ when $x ge 0$, and $|x| = -x$ when $x < 0$. Since $|a|$ is non-negative, $big||a|big| = |a|$.







        share|cite|improve this answer














        share|cite|improve this answer



        share|cite|improve this answer








        edited Dec 14 '18 at 17:38

























        answered Dec 14 '18 at 17:26









        Zach LangleyZach Langley

        9731019




        9731019















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