'Virtual' postdoc (in math)
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15
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Assume that a given postdoctoral position does not require teaching/laboratory.
Are there postdoc positions for someone who wishes to stay in his/her country and just be in touch with the post-doc advisor by e-mail or/and Skype?
Perhaps communicating only by e-mail may be slightly annoying for some people, so I also suggested Skype.
In my opinion (but correct me if I am wrong), there should be no difference between live meetings and Skype meetings.
Remark: Truly, I am asking about a post-doc position in mathematics, but I guess that my question is also relevant for other fields.
Edit: I wish to thank all the people answering (or commenting on) my question.
mathematics postdocs supervision remote-work
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up vote
15
down vote
favorite
Assume that a given postdoctoral position does not require teaching/laboratory.
Are there postdoc positions for someone who wishes to stay in his/her country and just be in touch with the post-doc advisor by e-mail or/and Skype?
Perhaps communicating only by e-mail may be slightly annoying for some people, so I also suggested Skype.
In my opinion (but correct me if I am wrong), there should be no difference between live meetings and Skype meetings.
Remark: Truly, I am asking about a post-doc position in mathematics, but I guess that my question is also relevant for other fields.
Edit: I wish to thank all the people answering (or commenting on) my question.
mathematics postdocs supervision remote-work
9
In mathematics it might work, but I never heard about such positions. A position typically involves funding (and hence you move to where the PA is). What you describe is rather a research partnership.
– Oleg Lobachev
2 days ago
1
When you say "own county", do you mean that literally? There are generally visa and tax considerations to this sort of outsourcing when it happens internationally.
– origimbo
2 days ago
1
Apart from the obvious point that you'll have to exclude all positions that have a teaching load, there might also be insurance problems. For example, your job will most likely have healthcare, however many insurance policies will only pay for costs incurred in their own country.
– mlk
2 days ago
3
Your question has been flagged as being unsuited to the site because it's opinion-based. I think this is because of the phrase "Do you think that such a position should be availabe" -- it sounds like you're asking whether it would be proper for a university to offer such a position. I wonder if you really mean "... would be available", i.e., asking whether such positions exist.
– David Richerby
2 days ago
1
Regarding the difference between Skype Meetings and personal meetings: This is partially true. Durign Skype meetings you may share a screen and present materials prepared in advance, but you would have a hard time working in real-time (e.g. getting a piece of paper and drawing a sketch). Also the communication is noisy and sometimes annoying, don't expect to be as well understood via Skype as you are in person. If you are working with mathematics, a thing you might consider is that if you perform computational simulations you may need to simulate and interact personally and together over code.
– Mefitico
yesterday
|
show 5 more comments
up vote
15
down vote
favorite
up vote
15
down vote
favorite
Assume that a given postdoctoral position does not require teaching/laboratory.
Are there postdoc positions for someone who wishes to stay in his/her country and just be in touch with the post-doc advisor by e-mail or/and Skype?
Perhaps communicating only by e-mail may be slightly annoying for some people, so I also suggested Skype.
In my opinion (but correct me if I am wrong), there should be no difference between live meetings and Skype meetings.
Remark: Truly, I am asking about a post-doc position in mathematics, but I guess that my question is also relevant for other fields.
Edit: I wish to thank all the people answering (or commenting on) my question.
mathematics postdocs supervision remote-work
Assume that a given postdoctoral position does not require teaching/laboratory.
Are there postdoc positions for someone who wishes to stay in his/her country and just be in touch with the post-doc advisor by e-mail or/and Skype?
Perhaps communicating only by e-mail may be slightly annoying for some people, so I also suggested Skype.
In my opinion (but correct me if I am wrong), there should be no difference between live meetings and Skype meetings.
Remark: Truly, I am asking about a post-doc position in mathematics, but I guess that my question is also relevant for other fields.
Edit: I wish to thank all the people answering (or commenting on) my question.
mathematics postdocs supervision remote-work
mathematics postdocs supervision remote-work
edited 17 hours ago
asked 2 days ago
user237522
28129
28129
9
In mathematics it might work, but I never heard about such positions. A position typically involves funding (and hence you move to where the PA is). What you describe is rather a research partnership.
– Oleg Lobachev
2 days ago
1
When you say "own county", do you mean that literally? There are generally visa and tax considerations to this sort of outsourcing when it happens internationally.
– origimbo
2 days ago
1
Apart from the obvious point that you'll have to exclude all positions that have a teaching load, there might also be insurance problems. For example, your job will most likely have healthcare, however many insurance policies will only pay for costs incurred in their own country.
– mlk
2 days ago
3
Your question has been flagged as being unsuited to the site because it's opinion-based. I think this is because of the phrase "Do you think that such a position should be availabe" -- it sounds like you're asking whether it would be proper for a university to offer such a position. I wonder if you really mean "... would be available", i.e., asking whether such positions exist.
– David Richerby
2 days ago
1
Regarding the difference between Skype Meetings and personal meetings: This is partially true. Durign Skype meetings you may share a screen and present materials prepared in advance, but you would have a hard time working in real-time (e.g. getting a piece of paper and drawing a sketch). Also the communication is noisy and sometimes annoying, don't expect to be as well understood via Skype as you are in person. If you are working with mathematics, a thing you might consider is that if you perform computational simulations you may need to simulate and interact personally and together over code.
– Mefitico
yesterday
|
show 5 more comments
9
In mathematics it might work, but I never heard about such positions. A position typically involves funding (and hence you move to where the PA is). What you describe is rather a research partnership.
– Oleg Lobachev
2 days ago
1
When you say "own county", do you mean that literally? There are generally visa and tax considerations to this sort of outsourcing when it happens internationally.
– origimbo
2 days ago
1
Apart from the obvious point that you'll have to exclude all positions that have a teaching load, there might also be insurance problems. For example, your job will most likely have healthcare, however many insurance policies will only pay for costs incurred in their own country.
– mlk
2 days ago
3
Your question has been flagged as being unsuited to the site because it's opinion-based. I think this is because of the phrase "Do you think that such a position should be availabe" -- it sounds like you're asking whether it would be proper for a university to offer such a position. I wonder if you really mean "... would be available", i.e., asking whether such positions exist.
– David Richerby
2 days ago
1
Regarding the difference between Skype Meetings and personal meetings: This is partially true. Durign Skype meetings you may share a screen and present materials prepared in advance, but you would have a hard time working in real-time (e.g. getting a piece of paper and drawing a sketch). Also the communication is noisy and sometimes annoying, don't expect to be as well understood via Skype as you are in person. If you are working with mathematics, a thing you might consider is that if you perform computational simulations you may need to simulate and interact personally and together over code.
– Mefitico
yesterday
9
9
In mathematics it might work, but I never heard about such positions. A position typically involves funding (and hence you move to where the PA is). What you describe is rather a research partnership.
– Oleg Lobachev
2 days ago
In mathematics it might work, but I never heard about such positions. A position typically involves funding (and hence you move to where the PA is). What you describe is rather a research partnership.
– Oleg Lobachev
2 days ago
1
1
When you say "own county", do you mean that literally? There are generally visa and tax considerations to this sort of outsourcing when it happens internationally.
– origimbo
2 days ago
When you say "own county", do you mean that literally? There are generally visa and tax considerations to this sort of outsourcing when it happens internationally.
– origimbo
2 days ago
1
1
Apart from the obvious point that you'll have to exclude all positions that have a teaching load, there might also be insurance problems. For example, your job will most likely have healthcare, however many insurance policies will only pay for costs incurred in their own country.
– mlk
2 days ago
Apart from the obvious point that you'll have to exclude all positions that have a teaching load, there might also be insurance problems. For example, your job will most likely have healthcare, however many insurance policies will only pay for costs incurred in their own country.
– mlk
2 days ago
3
3
Your question has been flagged as being unsuited to the site because it's opinion-based. I think this is because of the phrase "Do you think that such a position should be availabe" -- it sounds like you're asking whether it would be proper for a university to offer such a position. I wonder if you really mean "... would be available", i.e., asking whether such positions exist.
– David Richerby
2 days ago
Your question has been flagged as being unsuited to the site because it's opinion-based. I think this is because of the phrase "Do you think that such a position should be availabe" -- it sounds like you're asking whether it would be proper for a university to offer such a position. I wonder if you really mean "... would be available", i.e., asking whether such positions exist.
– David Richerby
2 days ago
1
1
Regarding the difference between Skype Meetings and personal meetings: This is partially true. Durign Skype meetings you may share a screen and present materials prepared in advance, but you would have a hard time working in real-time (e.g. getting a piece of paper and drawing a sketch). Also the communication is noisy and sometimes annoying, don't expect to be as well understood via Skype as you are in person. If you are working with mathematics, a thing you might consider is that if you perform computational simulations you may need to simulate and interact personally and together over code.
– Mefitico
yesterday
Regarding the difference between Skype Meetings and personal meetings: This is partially true. Durign Skype meetings you may share a screen and present materials prepared in advance, but you would have a hard time working in real-time (e.g. getting a piece of paper and drawing a sketch). Also the communication is noisy and sometimes annoying, don't expect to be as well understood via Skype as you are in person. If you are working with mathematics, a thing you might consider is that if you perform computational simulations you may need to simulate and interact personally and together over code.
– Mefitico
yesterday
|
show 5 more comments
9 Answers
9
active
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up vote
54
down vote
accepted
In person and Skype are completely different. Writing math that you can both see becomes a challenge (in person, it's called a blackboard). I get up to fetch a book: communication is lost. Meeting takes longer than expected and it'd be nice to continue talking over lunch? Very difficult with Skype. More than two people in a meeting? Complete nightmare.
And a postdoc position is not just about talking with your supervisor every now and then. IMO, that's just a recipe for having a terrible time. You are expected to participate in your department's life. This means going to seminars, talk with people who you don't collaborate with, etc. Impossible if you are restricted to formal Skype meetings with your supervisor. Let's say you have a quick question about something you're reading. Are you going to call your supervisor about it? Or go to the office next door and ask, maybe even someone else, like another postdoc or a PhD student who works on the same kind of topic?
What you are describing is a research collaboration with someone else. You check up every now and then for status updates. It's not what most people envision when they think of a postdoc.
1
(If I am not wrong, it is possible to have a whiteboard within a Skype conversation). But anyway, even if this problem can be solved, you are raising other issues, not solvable by Skype.
– user237522
2 days ago
10
@user237522 Whiteboards in Skype is possible but it does not work. One of many pseudo-"solutions" put in to advertise the product but not to be usable.
– Dmitry Savostyanov
2 days ago
@DmitrySavostyanov, thanks for the information..
– user237522
2 days ago
add a comment |
up vote
25
down vote
There is a BIG difference between in-person and via Skype. I have seen this before on several occasions in industry and it simply does not work as well. I doubt it'd be different in academia. It's much harder to integrate a remote worker into a group, especially if they're in a different timezone. I suspect there would have to be a very compelling reason for most supervisors to agree to this. Maybe they'll do it, but you better be pretty special.
Thank you for your answer. Interesting point about integrating a remote worker into a group. (Perhaps if there is no such a group it would be slightly easier).
– user237522
2 days ago
There is a group by definition: you and the advisor.
– David Richerby
2 days ago
I thought that it was meant a group of order > 2, namely, that there exist people other than me and the advisor.
– user237522
2 days ago
2
If there is no such group, it may be easier, but if there is no such group, then that's not a very good postdoc position whether or not it's virtual.
– Misha Lavrov
2 days ago
4
@user237522 Yes, very much so. My experience (as a postdoc in math right now) is that while working with one's postdoc advisor is very helpful, a lot of research is spurred by going to talks, meeting visitors to the department, collaborating with graduate students, and so on. More people bring more specialties to the table; this might mean knowing how to apply a technique you're unfamiliar with, or just being aware of more research problems to tackle. Also, it is somehow easier to keep working on multiple projects at the same time if they are with different people.
– Misha Lavrov
2 days ago
|
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8
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I think that would be entirely up to whoever is funding and or supervising it. I doubt that many would wish to do so as there is little opportunity for direct supervision or keeping track of the activities of the post-doc. It would seem to depend on an inordinate amount of trust.
If you were the funder, you should probably establish some very regular means of communication to see that your resources aren't being wasted.
Such a thing might be more reasonable if the post-doc and the PI had a regular relationship in the past so that trust was already established.
I don't think there is anything wrong with such a thing, I just don't guess anyone would be interested in supervising it. Interesting, but unrealistic.
add a comment |
up vote
7
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If you are a postdoc for industry, many things are possible. If you are a postdoc in a University or research institution, your institution is subject to rigorous control, which includes financial transparency and visa compliance. Sure, these problems may be solvable for Prof Famous joining the University of Notmuch. But bending those rules for an average postdoc is extremely unlikely. Finance won't like paying a guy who is not physically on-site for some work which is basically a couple of telephone calls per months. Such schemes are often used by dishonest PIs for tunnel research funds to their relatives or close friends, and they are always a subject of extra scrutiny and extra attention. Finance and HR will not support you or your PI in this, and this alone is the reason why such scheme — although theoretically possible — will not really happen.
add a comment |
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5
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I know anecdotal answers aren't always approved of on Stack Exchange, but I do know of post-docs who have arranged to work remotely as standard within the same country (the UK), with occasional physical visits (on average once a week or less) due to independent instances of the two body problem for the PI and the post doc.
It's just about conceivable that the same kind of arrangement could be made internationally between countries with sufficiently integrated travel and financial systems (I'm thinking specifically of EU-EU here).
1
I think this is more than just an anecdote, so +1 from me.
– David Richerby
yesterday
4
Once a week isn't "occasional", it's regular. I don't think it's uncommon for postdocs to meet their supervisor (physically!) once a week or less...
– user2357
yesterday
add a comment |
up vote
4
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One thing that hasn't been mentioned in other answers is that the university may have rules that require postdocs to be physically present. Mine does, so this kind of thing would be out of the question. I have no idea how common that is.
I also agree with other answers that say working with an advisor long-distance would be a huge disadvantage. I am a mathematician.
1
Conversely, universities such as the OU (open.ac.uk) have a history of doing such things because they also have an interest in the technology of distributed learning.
– Pete Kirkham
yesterday
add a comment |
up vote
4
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It is possible for a postdoc to be at a different university from the grant-holder (PI), and supervised virtually as a result. It probably requires an unusual source of funding, and entails either frequent visits or else a co-supervisor/collaborator based at the postdoc's institution.
- An example
Here is an old job advert from the CGSP/CPSM, a Canadian research project in social policy. One can find by a little googling that one of the appointees is based on another continent, where they are co-supervised by a professor who is not listed as a collaborator or partner in the CGSP/CPSM. So their supervision by the PI would be mostly virtual (apart from one workshop planned as part of the programme).
In the job advert, you can see some very careful wording about supervisors and co-supervisors to permit exactly this to happen.
- Something similar in mathematics?
In fact I know the PI in the example above (that's how I heard about it at all). She told me that those postdocs were in some measure based on the Fields Institute postdocs in mathematics.
Academics apply to organise "thematic programs" at the Fields Institute, and the institute hires postdocs to work on those programs. The organisers could be anywhere in the world. The postdocs also aim to work with faculty at "sponsor universities" of the Fields Institute but still, many of these are physically quite distant. But there are workshops and lecture courses every month or two to bring people together physically. So in practise the supervision is not very virtual.
- Appendix
Of course it can happen that a PI or postdoc has an extended visit at another university or institute, or that the PI moves and it's not possible for the postdoc to follow. If one wanted to see the different ways a "virtual postdoc" could go in practise then those cases might be the place to start.
New contributor
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3
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A research group or a PI typically wants a researcher who is more committed to the group and to his/her research projects. In-person presence means you are committing your life for the duration of the post-doc to that:
- You're moving to a different city or a different country.
- your daily routine will be very different.
- your circle of human interaction will be people in your research group, department and university (well, not only them, but for most of the day).
- You will be literally, physically, available for your research group members to walk in and bother you with things.
- You will (possibly) be eating and drinking together and perhaps even the same food with your research group colleagues.
- You will endure the same environmental, technical and political inconveniences as your research group colleagues.
So it is an entirely different experience than a "virtual" post-doc. It is also why most institutions and researchers are skeptical or not willing to consider such arrangements.
I'm not seeing the advantage of points 1, 2 and 6, and point 5 seems somewhat tenuous (not everyone likes eating together). If anything, point 6 seems like a disadvantage of all being in the same place.
– David Richerby
20 hours ago
@DavidRicherby: Points 1 and 2 are an expression of commitment, and are costly and difficult to reverse. Points 1, 2, and 6 foster commitment through hardship. Point 6 fosters camaraderie and through it, again, commitment.
– einpoklum
20 hours ago
Oh. I thought the point of a postdoc was to do good research, not to endure suffering.
– David Richerby
20 hours ago
@DavidRicherby: "By the sweat of thy brow shall you eat bread", -Genesis 3:19. Or, "No pain, no gain" -Jane Fonda, exercise video
– einpoklum
20 hours ago
1
Perhaps the importance or non-importance of those points depend on the personality of the particular postdoc candidate. Maybe some need that 'special environment'/way of life in order to do good research, while others do not need it, or even such an anvironment may hinder them (like me. I prefer to be in my 'natural' environment in order to concentrate on my research).
– user237522
18 hours ago
|
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up vote
2
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I'm a postdoc in computer science, working remotely for a UK university, from a different continent.
However, I've been a postdoc for 2 years and it's just the last 3 months of my contract that I've arranged with my supervisor to do remotely, before that I was in the UK.
I'll add my direct experience to the chorus: being remote is hard, for motivation, for having constructive meetings, for being part of the community... there are conceivably tasks that can be done remotely, but research where you need to discuss hard problems with a supervisor are just not well suited for remote work.
A few weeks at a time are manageable, but longer term is a bad idea. On the other hand, I think being on-site once a week or so, is very manageable.
There are also a few administrative obstacles:
The terms of a fellowship / visa limit how long you're allowed to be away from the UK (it happens I'm not affect by that as I'm an EU citizen, but a friend of mine from Canada is).
There's a university policy that says that all academic staff have travel insurance when they travel: in this case I'm away without "travelling" and when I travel to the UK I'm at my official workplace, so why would they give me a separate insurance?
There could be more that I've avoided from doing the remote thing less than 3 months, and other constraints in other countries... I just mention the UK ones I know as examples.
Thanks. Interesting.
– user237522
15 hours ago
add a comment |
9 Answers
9
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9 Answers
9
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
up vote
54
down vote
accepted
In person and Skype are completely different. Writing math that you can both see becomes a challenge (in person, it's called a blackboard). I get up to fetch a book: communication is lost. Meeting takes longer than expected and it'd be nice to continue talking over lunch? Very difficult with Skype. More than two people in a meeting? Complete nightmare.
And a postdoc position is not just about talking with your supervisor every now and then. IMO, that's just a recipe for having a terrible time. You are expected to participate in your department's life. This means going to seminars, talk with people who you don't collaborate with, etc. Impossible if you are restricted to formal Skype meetings with your supervisor. Let's say you have a quick question about something you're reading. Are you going to call your supervisor about it? Or go to the office next door and ask, maybe even someone else, like another postdoc or a PhD student who works on the same kind of topic?
What you are describing is a research collaboration with someone else. You check up every now and then for status updates. It's not what most people envision when they think of a postdoc.
1
(If I am not wrong, it is possible to have a whiteboard within a Skype conversation). But anyway, even if this problem can be solved, you are raising other issues, not solvable by Skype.
– user237522
2 days ago
10
@user237522 Whiteboards in Skype is possible but it does not work. One of many pseudo-"solutions" put in to advertise the product but not to be usable.
– Dmitry Savostyanov
2 days ago
@DmitrySavostyanov, thanks for the information..
– user237522
2 days ago
add a comment |
up vote
54
down vote
accepted
In person and Skype are completely different. Writing math that you can both see becomes a challenge (in person, it's called a blackboard). I get up to fetch a book: communication is lost. Meeting takes longer than expected and it'd be nice to continue talking over lunch? Very difficult with Skype. More than two people in a meeting? Complete nightmare.
And a postdoc position is not just about talking with your supervisor every now and then. IMO, that's just a recipe for having a terrible time. You are expected to participate in your department's life. This means going to seminars, talk with people who you don't collaborate with, etc. Impossible if you are restricted to formal Skype meetings with your supervisor. Let's say you have a quick question about something you're reading. Are you going to call your supervisor about it? Or go to the office next door and ask, maybe even someone else, like another postdoc or a PhD student who works on the same kind of topic?
What you are describing is a research collaboration with someone else. You check up every now and then for status updates. It's not what most people envision when they think of a postdoc.
1
(If I am not wrong, it is possible to have a whiteboard within a Skype conversation). But anyway, even if this problem can be solved, you are raising other issues, not solvable by Skype.
– user237522
2 days ago
10
@user237522 Whiteboards in Skype is possible but it does not work. One of many pseudo-"solutions" put in to advertise the product but not to be usable.
– Dmitry Savostyanov
2 days ago
@DmitrySavostyanov, thanks for the information..
– user237522
2 days ago
add a comment |
up vote
54
down vote
accepted
up vote
54
down vote
accepted
In person and Skype are completely different. Writing math that you can both see becomes a challenge (in person, it's called a blackboard). I get up to fetch a book: communication is lost. Meeting takes longer than expected and it'd be nice to continue talking over lunch? Very difficult with Skype. More than two people in a meeting? Complete nightmare.
And a postdoc position is not just about talking with your supervisor every now and then. IMO, that's just a recipe for having a terrible time. You are expected to participate in your department's life. This means going to seminars, talk with people who you don't collaborate with, etc. Impossible if you are restricted to formal Skype meetings with your supervisor. Let's say you have a quick question about something you're reading. Are you going to call your supervisor about it? Or go to the office next door and ask, maybe even someone else, like another postdoc or a PhD student who works on the same kind of topic?
What you are describing is a research collaboration with someone else. You check up every now and then for status updates. It's not what most people envision when they think of a postdoc.
In person and Skype are completely different. Writing math that you can both see becomes a challenge (in person, it's called a blackboard). I get up to fetch a book: communication is lost. Meeting takes longer than expected and it'd be nice to continue talking over lunch? Very difficult with Skype. More than two people in a meeting? Complete nightmare.
And a postdoc position is not just about talking with your supervisor every now and then. IMO, that's just a recipe for having a terrible time. You are expected to participate in your department's life. This means going to seminars, talk with people who you don't collaborate with, etc. Impossible if you are restricted to formal Skype meetings with your supervisor. Let's say you have a quick question about something you're reading. Are you going to call your supervisor about it? Or go to the office next door and ask, maybe even someone else, like another postdoc or a PhD student who works on the same kind of topic?
What you are describing is a research collaboration with someone else. You check up every now and then for status updates. It's not what most people envision when they think of a postdoc.
answered 2 days ago
user2357
10.5k23759
10.5k23759
1
(If I am not wrong, it is possible to have a whiteboard within a Skype conversation). But anyway, even if this problem can be solved, you are raising other issues, not solvable by Skype.
– user237522
2 days ago
10
@user237522 Whiteboards in Skype is possible but it does not work. One of many pseudo-"solutions" put in to advertise the product but not to be usable.
– Dmitry Savostyanov
2 days ago
@DmitrySavostyanov, thanks for the information..
– user237522
2 days ago
add a comment |
1
(If I am not wrong, it is possible to have a whiteboard within a Skype conversation). But anyway, even if this problem can be solved, you are raising other issues, not solvable by Skype.
– user237522
2 days ago
10
@user237522 Whiteboards in Skype is possible but it does not work. One of many pseudo-"solutions" put in to advertise the product but not to be usable.
– Dmitry Savostyanov
2 days ago
@DmitrySavostyanov, thanks for the information..
– user237522
2 days ago
1
1
(If I am not wrong, it is possible to have a whiteboard within a Skype conversation). But anyway, even if this problem can be solved, you are raising other issues, not solvable by Skype.
– user237522
2 days ago
(If I am not wrong, it is possible to have a whiteboard within a Skype conversation). But anyway, even if this problem can be solved, you are raising other issues, not solvable by Skype.
– user237522
2 days ago
10
10
@user237522 Whiteboards in Skype is possible but it does not work. One of many pseudo-"solutions" put in to advertise the product but not to be usable.
– Dmitry Savostyanov
2 days ago
@user237522 Whiteboards in Skype is possible but it does not work. One of many pseudo-"solutions" put in to advertise the product but not to be usable.
– Dmitry Savostyanov
2 days ago
@DmitrySavostyanov, thanks for the information..
– user237522
2 days ago
@DmitrySavostyanov, thanks for the information..
– user237522
2 days ago
add a comment |
up vote
25
down vote
There is a BIG difference between in-person and via Skype. I have seen this before on several occasions in industry and it simply does not work as well. I doubt it'd be different in academia. It's much harder to integrate a remote worker into a group, especially if they're in a different timezone. I suspect there would have to be a very compelling reason for most supervisors to agree to this. Maybe they'll do it, but you better be pretty special.
Thank you for your answer. Interesting point about integrating a remote worker into a group. (Perhaps if there is no such a group it would be slightly easier).
– user237522
2 days ago
There is a group by definition: you and the advisor.
– David Richerby
2 days ago
I thought that it was meant a group of order > 2, namely, that there exist people other than me and the advisor.
– user237522
2 days ago
2
If there is no such group, it may be easier, but if there is no such group, then that's not a very good postdoc position whether or not it's virtual.
– Misha Lavrov
2 days ago
4
@user237522 Yes, very much so. My experience (as a postdoc in math right now) is that while working with one's postdoc advisor is very helpful, a lot of research is spurred by going to talks, meeting visitors to the department, collaborating with graduate students, and so on. More people bring more specialties to the table; this might mean knowing how to apply a technique you're unfamiliar with, or just being aware of more research problems to tackle. Also, it is somehow easier to keep working on multiple projects at the same time if they are with different people.
– Misha Lavrov
2 days ago
|
show 4 more comments
up vote
25
down vote
There is a BIG difference between in-person and via Skype. I have seen this before on several occasions in industry and it simply does not work as well. I doubt it'd be different in academia. It's much harder to integrate a remote worker into a group, especially if they're in a different timezone. I suspect there would have to be a very compelling reason for most supervisors to agree to this. Maybe they'll do it, but you better be pretty special.
Thank you for your answer. Interesting point about integrating a remote worker into a group. (Perhaps if there is no such a group it would be slightly easier).
– user237522
2 days ago
There is a group by definition: you and the advisor.
– David Richerby
2 days ago
I thought that it was meant a group of order > 2, namely, that there exist people other than me and the advisor.
– user237522
2 days ago
2
If there is no such group, it may be easier, but if there is no such group, then that's not a very good postdoc position whether or not it's virtual.
– Misha Lavrov
2 days ago
4
@user237522 Yes, very much so. My experience (as a postdoc in math right now) is that while working with one's postdoc advisor is very helpful, a lot of research is spurred by going to talks, meeting visitors to the department, collaborating with graduate students, and so on. More people bring more specialties to the table; this might mean knowing how to apply a technique you're unfamiliar with, or just being aware of more research problems to tackle. Also, it is somehow easier to keep working on multiple projects at the same time if they are with different people.
– Misha Lavrov
2 days ago
|
show 4 more comments
up vote
25
down vote
up vote
25
down vote
There is a BIG difference between in-person and via Skype. I have seen this before on several occasions in industry and it simply does not work as well. I doubt it'd be different in academia. It's much harder to integrate a remote worker into a group, especially if they're in a different timezone. I suspect there would have to be a very compelling reason for most supervisors to agree to this. Maybe they'll do it, but you better be pretty special.
There is a BIG difference between in-person and via Skype. I have seen this before on several occasions in industry and it simply does not work as well. I doubt it'd be different in academia. It's much harder to integrate a remote worker into a group, especially if they're in a different timezone. I suspect there would have to be a very compelling reason for most supervisors to agree to this. Maybe they'll do it, but you better be pretty special.
answered 2 days ago
Nicole Hamilton
16.5k64163
16.5k64163
Thank you for your answer. Interesting point about integrating a remote worker into a group. (Perhaps if there is no such a group it would be slightly easier).
– user237522
2 days ago
There is a group by definition: you and the advisor.
– David Richerby
2 days ago
I thought that it was meant a group of order > 2, namely, that there exist people other than me and the advisor.
– user237522
2 days ago
2
If there is no such group, it may be easier, but if there is no such group, then that's not a very good postdoc position whether or not it's virtual.
– Misha Lavrov
2 days ago
4
@user237522 Yes, very much so. My experience (as a postdoc in math right now) is that while working with one's postdoc advisor is very helpful, a lot of research is spurred by going to talks, meeting visitors to the department, collaborating with graduate students, and so on. More people bring more specialties to the table; this might mean knowing how to apply a technique you're unfamiliar with, or just being aware of more research problems to tackle. Also, it is somehow easier to keep working on multiple projects at the same time if they are with different people.
– Misha Lavrov
2 days ago
|
show 4 more comments
Thank you for your answer. Interesting point about integrating a remote worker into a group. (Perhaps if there is no such a group it would be slightly easier).
– user237522
2 days ago
There is a group by definition: you and the advisor.
– David Richerby
2 days ago
I thought that it was meant a group of order > 2, namely, that there exist people other than me and the advisor.
– user237522
2 days ago
2
If there is no such group, it may be easier, but if there is no such group, then that's not a very good postdoc position whether or not it's virtual.
– Misha Lavrov
2 days ago
4
@user237522 Yes, very much so. My experience (as a postdoc in math right now) is that while working with one's postdoc advisor is very helpful, a lot of research is spurred by going to talks, meeting visitors to the department, collaborating with graduate students, and so on. More people bring more specialties to the table; this might mean knowing how to apply a technique you're unfamiliar with, or just being aware of more research problems to tackle. Also, it is somehow easier to keep working on multiple projects at the same time if they are with different people.
– Misha Lavrov
2 days ago
Thank you for your answer. Interesting point about integrating a remote worker into a group. (Perhaps if there is no such a group it would be slightly easier).
– user237522
2 days ago
Thank you for your answer. Interesting point about integrating a remote worker into a group. (Perhaps if there is no such a group it would be slightly easier).
– user237522
2 days ago
There is a group by definition: you and the advisor.
– David Richerby
2 days ago
There is a group by definition: you and the advisor.
– David Richerby
2 days ago
I thought that it was meant a group of order > 2, namely, that there exist people other than me and the advisor.
– user237522
2 days ago
I thought that it was meant a group of order > 2, namely, that there exist people other than me and the advisor.
– user237522
2 days ago
2
2
If there is no such group, it may be easier, but if there is no such group, then that's not a very good postdoc position whether or not it's virtual.
– Misha Lavrov
2 days ago
If there is no such group, it may be easier, but if there is no such group, then that's not a very good postdoc position whether or not it's virtual.
– Misha Lavrov
2 days ago
4
4
@user237522 Yes, very much so. My experience (as a postdoc in math right now) is that while working with one's postdoc advisor is very helpful, a lot of research is spurred by going to talks, meeting visitors to the department, collaborating with graduate students, and so on. More people bring more specialties to the table; this might mean knowing how to apply a technique you're unfamiliar with, or just being aware of more research problems to tackle. Also, it is somehow easier to keep working on multiple projects at the same time if they are with different people.
– Misha Lavrov
2 days ago
@user237522 Yes, very much so. My experience (as a postdoc in math right now) is that while working with one's postdoc advisor is very helpful, a lot of research is spurred by going to talks, meeting visitors to the department, collaborating with graduate students, and so on. More people bring more specialties to the table; this might mean knowing how to apply a technique you're unfamiliar with, or just being aware of more research problems to tackle. Also, it is somehow easier to keep working on multiple projects at the same time if they are with different people.
– Misha Lavrov
2 days ago
|
show 4 more comments
up vote
8
down vote
I think that would be entirely up to whoever is funding and or supervising it. I doubt that many would wish to do so as there is little opportunity for direct supervision or keeping track of the activities of the post-doc. It would seem to depend on an inordinate amount of trust.
If you were the funder, you should probably establish some very regular means of communication to see that your resources aren't being wasted.
Such a thing might be more reasonable if the post-doc and the PI had a regular relationship in the past so that trust was already established.
I don't think there is anything wrong with such a thing, I just don't guess anyone would be interested in supervising it. Interesting, but unrealistic.
add a comment |
up vote
8
down vote
I think that would be entirely up to whoever is funding and or supervising it. I doubt that many would wish to do so as there is little opportunity for direct supervision or keeping track of the activities of the post-doc. It would seem to depend on an inordinate amount of trust.
If you were the funder, you should probably establish some very regular means of communication to see that your resources aren't being wasted.
Such a thing might be more reasonable if the post-doc and the PI had a regular relationship in the past so that trust was already established.
I don't think there is anything wrong with such a thing, I just don't guess anyone would be interested in supervising it. Interesting, but unrealistic.
add a comment |
up vote
8
down vote
up vote
8
down vote
I think that would be entirely up to whoever is funding and or supervising it. I doubt that many would wish to do so as there is little opportunity for direct supervision or keeping track of the activities of the post-doc. It would seem to depend on an inordinate amount of trust.
If you were the funder, you should probably establish some very regular means of communication to see that your resources aren't being wasted.
Such a thing might be more reasonable if the post-doc and the PI had a regular relationship in the past so that trust was already established.
I don't think there is anything wrong with such a thing, I just don't guess anyone would be interested in supervising it. Interesting, but unrealistic.
I think that would be entirely up to whoever is funding and or supervising it. I doubt that many would wish to do so as there is little opportunity for direct supervision or keeping track of the activities of the post-doc. It would seem to depend on an inordinate amount of trust.
If you were the funder, you should probably establish some very regular means of communication to see that your resources aren't being wasted.
Such a thing might be more reasonable if the post-doc and the PI had a regular relationship in the past so that trust was already established.
I don't think there is anything wrong with such a thing, I just don't guess anyone would be interested in supervising it. Interesting, but unrealistic.
answered 2 days ago
Buffy
28.4k688152
28.4k688152
add a comment |
add a comment |
up vote
7
down vote
If you are a postdoc for industry, many things are possible. If you are a postdoc in a University or research institution, your institution is subject to rigorous control, which includes financial transparency and visa compliance. Sure, these problems may be solvable for Prof Famous joining the University of Notmuch. But bending those rules for an average postdoc is extremely unlikely. Finance won't like paying a guy who is not physically on-site for some work which is basically a couple of telephone calls per months. Such schemes are often used by dishonest PIs for tunnel research funds to their relatives or close friends, and they are always a subject of extra scrutiny and extra attention. Finance and HR will not support you or your PI in this, and this alone is the reason why such scheme — although theoretically possible — will not really happen.
add a comment |
up vote
7
down vote
If you are a postdoc for industry, many things are possible. If you are a postdoc in a University or research institution, your institution is subject to rigorous control, which includes financial transparency and visa compliance. Sure, these problems may be solvable for Prof Famous joining the University of Notmuch. But bending those rules for an average postdoc is extremely unlikely. Finance won't like paying a guy who is not physically on-site for some work which is basically a couple of telephone calls per months. Such schemes are often used by dishonest PIs for tunnel research funds to their relatives or close friends, and they are always a subject of extra scrutiny and extra attention. Finance and HR will not support you or your PI in this, and this alone is the reason why such scheme — although theoretically possible — will not really happen.
add a comment |
up vote
7
down vote
up vote
7
down vote
If you are a postdoc for industry, many things are possible. If you are a postdoc in a University or research institution, your institution is subject to rigorous control, which includes financial transparency and visa compliance. Sure, these problems may be solvable for Prof Famous joining the University of Notmuch. But bending those rules for an average postdoc is extremely unlikely. Finance won't like paying a guy who is not physically on-site for some work which is basically a couple of telephone calls per months. Such schemes are often used by dishonest PIs for tunnel research funds to their relatives or close friends, and they are always a subject of extra scrutiny and extra attention. Finance and HR will not support you or your PI in this, and this alone is the reason why such scheme — although theoretically possible — will not really happen.
If you are a postdoc for industry, many things are possible. If you are a postdoc in a University or research institution, your institution is subject to rigorous control, which includes financial transparency and visa compliance. Sure, these problems may be solvable for Prof Famous joining the University of Notmuch. But bending those rules for an average postdoc is extremely unlikely. Finance won't like paying a guy who is not physically on-site for some work which is basically a couple of telephone calls per months. Such schemes are often used by dishonest PIs for tunnel research funds to their relatives or close friends, and they are always a subject of extra scrutiny and extra attention. Finance and HR will not support you or your PI in this, and this alone is the reason why such scheme — although theoretically possible — will not really happen.
edited yesterday
answered 2 days ago
Dmitry Savostyanov
22.6k747103
22.6k747103
add a comment |
add a comment |
up vote
5
down vote
I know anecdotal answers aren't always approved of on Stack Exchange, but I do know of post-docs who have arranged to work remotely as standard within the same country (the UK), with occasional physical visits (on average once a week or less) due to independent instances of the two body problem for the PI and the post doc.
It's just about conceivable that the same kind of arrangement could be made internationally between countries with sufficiently integrated travel and financial systems (I'm thinking specifically of EU-EU here).
1
I think this is more than just an anecdote, so +1 from me.
– David Richerby
yesterday
4
Once a week isn't "occasional", it's regular. I don't think it's uncommon for postdocs to meet their supervisor (physically!) once a week or less...
– user2357
yesterday
add a comment |
up vote
5
down vote
I know anecdotal answers aren't always approved of on Stack Exchange, but I do know of post-docs who have arranged to work remotely as standard within the same country (the UK), with occasional physical visits (on average once a week or less) due to independent instances of the two body problem for the PI and the post doc.
It's just about conceivable that the same kind of arrangement could be made internationally between countries with sufficiently integrated travel and financial systems (I'm thinking specifically of EU-EU here).
1
I think this is more than just an anecdote, so +1 from me.
– David Richerby
yesterday
4
Once a week isn't "occasional", it's regular. I don't think it's uncommon for postdocs to meet their supervisor (physically!) once a week or less...
– user2357
yesterday
add a comment |
up vote
5
down vote
up vote
5
down vote
I know anecdotal answers aren't always approved of on Stack Exchange, but I do know of post-docs who have arranged to work remotely as standard within the same country (the UK), with occasional physical visits (on average once a week or less) due to independent instances of the two body problem for the PI and the post doc.
It's just about conceivable that the same kind of arrangement could be made internationally between countries with sufficiently integrated travel and financial systems (I'm thinking specifically of EU-EU here).
I know anecdotal answers aren't always approved of on Stack Exchange, but I do know of post-docs who have arranged to work remotely as standard within the same country (the UK), with occasional physical visits (on average once a week or less) due to independent instances of the two body problem for the PI and the post doc.
It's just about conceivable that the same kind of arrangement could be made internationally between countries with sufficiently integrated travel and financial systems (I'm thinking specifically of EU-EU here).
answered 2 days ago
origimbo
85046
85046
1
I think this is more than just an anecdote, so +1 from me.
– David Richerby
yesterday
4
Once a week isn't "occasional", it's regular. I don't think it's uncommon for postdocs to meet their supervisor (physically!) once a week or less...
– user2357
yesterday
add a comment |
1
I think this is more than just an anecdote, so +1 from me.
– David Richerby
yesterday
4
Once a week isn't "occasional", it's regular. I don't think it's uncommon for postdocs to meet their supervisor (physically!) once a week or less...
– user2357
yesterday
1
1
I think this is more than just an anecdote, so +1 from me.
– David Richerby
yesterday
I think this is more than just an anecdote, so +1 from me.
– David Richerby
yesterday
4
4
Once a week isn't "occasional", it's regular. I don't think it's uncommon for postdocs to meet their supervisor (physically!) once a week or less...
– user2357
yesterday
Once a week isn't "occasional", it's regular. I don't think it's uncommon for postdocs to meet their supervisor (physically!) once a week or less...
– user2357
yesterday
add a comment |
up vote
4
down vote
One thing that hasn't been mentioned in other answers is that the university may have rules that require postdocs to be physically present. Mine does, so this kind of thing would be out of the question. I have no idea how common that is.
I also agree with other answers that say working with an advisor long-distance would be a huge disadvantage. I am a mathematician.
1
Conversely, universities such as the OU (open.ac.uk) have a history of doing such things because they also have an interest in the technology of distributed learning.
– Pete Kirkham
yesterday
add a comment |
up vote
4
down vote
One thing that hasn't been mentioned in other answers is that the university may have rules that require postdocs to be physically present. Mine does, so this kind of thing would be out of the question. I have no idea how common that is.
I also agree with other answers that say working with an advisor long-distance would be a huge disadvantage. I am a mathematician.
1
Conversely, universities such as the OU (open.ac.uk) have a history of doing such things because they also have an interest in the technology of distributed learning.
– Pete Kirkham
yesterday
add a comment |
up vote
4
down vote
up vote
4
down vote
One thing that hasn't been mentioned in other answers is that the university may have rules that require postdocs to be physically present. Mine does, so this kind of thing would be out of the question. I have no idea how common that is.
I also agree with other answers that say working with an advisor long-distance would be a huge disadvantage. I am a mathematician.
One thing that hasn't been mentioned in other answers is that the university may have rules that require postdocs to be physically present. Mine does, so this kind of thing would be out of the question. I have no idea how common that is.
I also agree with other answers that say working with an advisor long-distance would be a huge disadvantage. I am a mathematician.
answered 2 days ago
David Ketcheson
27.6k684138
27.6k684138
1
Conversely, universities such as the OU (open.ac.uk) have a history of doing such things because they also have an interest in the technology of distributed learning.
– Pete Kirkham
yesterday
add a comment |
1
Conversely, universities such as the OU (open.ac.uk) have a history of doing such things because they also have an interest in the technology of distributed learning.
– Pete Kirkham
yesterday
1
1
Conversely, universities such as the OU (open.ac.uk) have a history of doing such things because they also have an interest in the technology of distributed learning.
– Pete Kirkham
yesterday
Conversely, universities such as the OU (open.ac.uk) have a history of doing such things because they also have an interest in the technology of distributed learning.
– Pete Kirkham
yesterday
add a comment |
up vote
4
down vote
It is possible for a postdoc to be at a different university from the grant-holder (PI), and supervised virtually as a result. It probably requires an unusual source of funding, and entails either frequent visits or else a co-supervisor/collaborator based at the postdoc's institution.
- An example
Here is an old job advert from the CGSP/CPSM, a Canadian research project in social policy. One can find by a little googling that one of the appointees is based on another continent, where they are co-supervised by a professor who is not listed as a collaborator or partner in the CGSP/CPSM. So their supervision by the PI would be mostly virtual (apart from one workshop planned as part of the programme).
In the job advert, you can see some very careful wording about supervisors and co-supervisors to permit exactly this to happen.
- Something similar in mathematics?
In fact I know the PI in the example above (that's how I heard about it at all). She told me that those postdocs were in some measure based on the Fields Institute postdocs in mathematics.
Academics apply to organise "thematic programs" at the Fields Institute, and the institute hires postdocs to work on those programs. The organisers could be anywhere in the world. The postdocs also aim to work with faculty at "sponsor universities" of the Fields Institute but still, many of these are physically quite distant. But there are workshops and lecture courses every month or two to bring people together physically. So in practise the supervision is not very virtual.
- Appendix
Of course it can happen that a PI or postdoc has an extended visit at another university or institute, or that the PI moves and it's not possible for the postdoc to follow. If one wanted to see the different ways a "virtual postdoc" could go in practise then those cases might be the place to start.
New contributor
add a comment |
up vote
4
down vote
It is possible for a postdoc to be at a different university from the grant-holder (PI), and supervised virtually as a result. It probably requires an unusual source of funding, and entails either frequent visits or else a co-supervisor/collaborator based at the postdoc's institution.
- An example
Here is an old job advert from the CGSP/CPSM, a Canadian research project in social policy. One can find by a little googling that one of the appointees is based on another continent, where they are co-supervised by a professor who is not listed as a collaborator or partner in the CGSP/CPSM. So their supervision by the PI would be mostly virtual (apart from one workshop planned as part of the programme).
In the job advert, you can see some very careful wording about supervisors and co-supervisors to permit exactly this to happen.
- Something similar in mathematics?
In fact I know the PI in the example above (that's how I heard about it at all). She told me that those postdocs were in some measure based on the Fields Institute postdocs in mathematics.
Academics apply to organise "thematic programs" at the Fields Institute, and the institute hires postdocs to work on those programs. The organisers could be anywhere in the world. The postdocs also aim to work with faculty at "sponsor universities" of the Fields Institute but still, many of these are physically quite distant. But there are workshops and lecture courses every month or two to bring people together physically. So in practise the supervision is not very virtual.
- Appendix
Of course it can happen that a PI or postdoc has an extended visit at another university or institute, or that the PI moves and it's not possible for the postdoc to follow. If one wanted to see the different ways a "virtual postdoc" could go in practise then those cases might be the place to start.
New contributor
add a comment |
up vote
4
down vote
up vote
4
down vote
It is possible for a postdoc to be at a different university from the grant-holder (PI), and supervised virtually as a result. It probably requires an unusual source of funding, and entails either frequent visits or else a co-supervisor/collaborator based at the postdoc's institution.
- An example
Here is an old job advert from the CGSP/CPSM, a Canadian research project in social policy. One can find by a little googling that one of the appointees is based on another continent, where they are co-supervised by a professor who is not listed as a collaborator or partner in the CGSP/CPSM. So their supervision by the PI would be mostly virtual (apart from one workshop planned as part of the programme).
In the job advert, you can see some very careful wording about supervisors and co-supervisors to permit exactly this to happen.
- Something similar in mathematics?
In fact I know the PI in the example above (that's how I heard about it at all). She told me that those postdocs were in some measure based on the Fields Institute postdocs in mathematics.
Academics apply to organise "thematic programs" at the Fields Institute, and the institute hires postdocs to work on those programs. The organisers could be anywhere in the world. The postdocs also aim to work with faculty at "sponsor universities" of the Fields Institute but still, many of these are physically quite distant. But there are workshops and lecture courses every month or two to bring people together physically. So in practise the supervision is not very virtual.
- Appendix
Of course it can happen that a PI or postdoc has an extended visit at another university or institute, or that the PI moves and it's not possible for the postdoc to follow. If one wanted to see the different ways a "virtual postdoc" could go in practise then those cases might be the place to start.
New contributor
It is possible for a postdoc to be at a different university from the grant-holder (PI), and supervised virtually as a result. It probably requires an unusual source of funding, and entails either frequent visits or else a co-supervisor/collaborator based at the postdoc's institution.
- An example
Here is an old job advert from the CGSP/CPSM, a Canadian research project in social policy. One can find by a little googling that one of the appointees is based on another continent, where they are co-supervised by a professor who is not listed as a collaborator or partner in the CGSP/CPSM. So their supervision by the PI would be mostly virtual (apart from one workshop planned as part of the programme).
In the job advert, you can see some very careful wording about supervisors and co-supervisors to permit exactly this to happen.
- Something similar in mathematics?
In fact I know the PI in the example above (that's how I heard about it at all). She told me that those postdocs were in some measure based on the Fields Institute postdocs in mathematics.
Academics apply to organise "thematic programs" at the Fields Institute, and the institute hires postdocs to work on those programs. The organisers could be anywhere in the world. The postdocs also aim to work with faculty at "sponsor universities" of the Fields Institute but still, many of these are physically quite distant. But there are workshops and lecture courses every month or two to bring people together physically. So in practise the supervision is not very virtual.
- Appendix
Of course it can happen that a PI or postdoc has an extended visit at another university or institute, or that the PI moves and it's not possible for the postdoc to follow. If one wanted to see the different ways a "virtual postdoc" could go in practise then those cases might be the place to start.
New contributor
edited 2 days ago
New contributor
answered 2 days ago
Simon L Rydin Myerson
1413
1413
New contributor
New contributor
add a comment |
add a comment |
up vote
3
down vote
A research group or a PI typically wants a researcher who is more committed to the group and to his/her research projects. In-person presence means you are committing your life for the duration of the post-doc to that:
- You're moving to a different city or a different country.
- your daily routine will be very different.
- your circle of human interaction will be people in your research group, department and university (well, not only them, but for most of the day).
- You will be literally, physically, available for your research group members to walk in and bother you with things.
- You will (possibly) be eating and drinking together and perhaps even the same food with your research group colleagues.
- You will endure the same environmental, technical and political inconveniences as your research group colleagues.
So it is an entirely different experience than a "virtual" post-doc. It is also why most institutions and researchers are skeptical or not willing to consider such arrangements.
I'm not seeing the advantage of points 1, 2 and 6, and point 5 seems somewhat tenuous (not everyone likes eating together). If anything, point 6 seems like a disadvantage of all being in the same place.
– David Richerby
20 hours ago
@DavidRicherby: Points 1 and 2 are an expression of commitment, and are costly and difficult to reverse. Points 1, 2, and 6 foster commitment through hardship. Point 6 fosters camaraderie and through it, again, commitment.
– einpoklum
20 hours ago
Oh. I thought the point of a postdoc was to do good research, not to endure suffering.
– David Richerby
20 hours ago
@DavidRicherby: "By the sweat of thy brow shall you eat bread", -Genesis 3:19. Or, "No pain, no gain" -Jane Fonda, exercise video
– einpoklum
20 hours ago
1
Perhaps the importance or non-importance of those points depend on the personality of the particular postdoc candidate. Maybe some need that 'special environment'/way of life in order to do good research, while others do not need it, or even such an anvironment may hinder them (like me. I prefer to be in my 'natural' environment in order to concentrate on my research).
– user237522
18 hours ago
|
show 4 more comments
up vote
3
down vote
A research group or a PI typically wants a researcher who is more committed to the group and to his/her research projects. In-person presence means you are committing your life for the duration of the post-doc to that:
- You're moving to a different city or a different country.
- your daily routine will be very different.
- your circle of human interaction will be people in your research group, department and university (well, not only them, but for most of the day).
- You will be literally, physically, available for your research group members to walk in and bother you with things.
- You will (possibly) be eating and drinking together and perhaps even the same food with your research group colleagues.
- You will endure the same environmental, technical and political inconveniences as your research group colleagues.
So it is an entirely different experience than a "virtual" post-doc. It is also why most institutions and researchers are skeptical or not willing to consider such arrangements.
I'm not seeing the advantage of points 1, 2 and 6, and point 5 seems somewhat tenuous (not everyone likes eating together). If anything, point 6 seems like a disadvantage of all being in the same place.
– David Richerby
20 hours ago
@DavidRicherby: Points 1 and 2 are an expression of commitment, and are costly and difficult to reverse. Points 1, 2, and 6 foster commitment through hardship. Point 6 fosters camaraderie and through it, again, commitment.
– einpoklum
20 hours ago
Oh. I thought the point of a postdoc was to do good research, not to endure suffering.
– David Richerby
20 hours ago
@DavidRicherby: "By the sweat of thy brow shall you eat bread", -Genesis 3:19. Or, "No pain, no gain" -Jane Fonda, exercise video
– einpoklum
20 hours ago
1
Perhaps the importance or non-importance of those points depend on the personality of the particular postdoc candidate. Maybe some need that 'special environment'/way of life in order to do good research, while others do not need it, or even such an anvironment may hinder them (like me. I prefer to be in my 'natural' environment in order to concentrate on my research).
– user237522
18 hours ago
|
show 4 more comments
up vote
3
down vote
up vote
3
down vote
A research group or a PI typically wants a researcher who is more committed to the group and to his/her research projects. In-person presence means you are committing your life for the duration of the post-doc to that:
- You're moving to a different city or a different country.
- your daily routine will be very different.
- your circle of human interaction will be people in your research group, department and university (well, not only them, but for most of the day).
- You will be literally, physically, available for your research group members to walk in and bother you with things.
- You will (possibly) be eating and drinking together and perhaps even the same food with your research group colleagues.
- You will endure the same environmental, technical and political inconveniences as your research group colleagues.
So it is an entirely different experience than a "virtual" post-doc. It is also why most institutions and researchers are skeptical or not willing to consider such arrangements.
A research group or a PI typically wants a researcher who is more committed to the group and to his/her research projects. In-person presence means you are committing your life for the duration of the post-doc to that:
- You're moving to a different city or a different country.
- your daily routine will be very different.
- your circle of human interaction will be people in your research group, department and university (well, not only them, but for most of the day).
- You will be literally, physically, available for your research group members to walk in and bother you with things.
- You will (possibly) be eating and drinking together and perhaps even the same food with your research group colleagues.
- You will endure the same environmental, technical and political inconveniences as your research group colleagues.
So it is an entirely different experience than a "virtual" post-doc. It is also why most institutions and researchers are skeptical or not willing to consider such arrangements.
edited 18 hours ago
answered 2 days ago
einpoklum
22.4k136130
22.4k136130
I'm not seeing the advantage of points 1, 2 and 6, and point 5 seems somewhat tenuous (not everyone likes eating together). If anything, point 6 seems like a disadvantage of all being in the same place.
– David Richerby
20 hours ago
@DavidRicherby: Points 1 and 2 are an expression of commitment, and are costly and difficult to reverse. Points 1, 2, and 6 foster commitment through hardship. Point 6 fosters camaraderie and through it, again, commitment.
– einpoklum
20 hours ago
Oh. I thought the point of a postdoc was to do good research, not to endure suffering.
– David Richerby
20 hours ago
@DavidRicherby: "By the sweat of thy brow shall you eat bread", -Genesis 3:19. Or, "No pain, no gain" -Jane Fonda, exercise video
– einpoklum
20 hours ago
1
Perhaps the importance or non-importance of those points depend on the personality of the particular postdoc candidate. Maybe some need that 'special environment'/way of life in order to do good research, while others do not need it, or even such an anvironment may hinder them (like me. I prefer to be in my 'natural' environment in order to concentrate on my research).
– user237522
18 hours ago
|
show 4 more comments
I'm not seeing the advantage of points 1, 2 and 6, and point 5 seems somewhat tenuous (not everyone likes eating together). If anything, point 6 seems like a disadvantage of all being in the same place.
– David Richerby
20 hours ago
@DavidRicherby: Points 1 and 2 are an expression of commitment, and are costly and difficult to reverse. Points 1, 2, and 6 foster commitment through hardship. Point 6 fosters camaraderie and through it, again, commitment.
– einpoklum
20 hours ago
Oh. I thought the point of a postdoc was to do good research, not to endure suffering.
– David Richerby
20 hours ago
@DavidRicherby: "By the sweat of thy brow shall you eat bread", -Genesis 3:19. Or, "No pain, no gain" -Jane Fonda, exercise video
– einpoklum
20 hours ago
1
Perhaps the importance or non-importance of those points depend on the personality of the particular postdoc candidate. Maybe some need that 'special environment'/way of life in order to do good research, while others do not need it, or even such an anvironment may hinder them (like me. I prefer to be in my 'natural' environment in order to concentrate on my research).
– user237522
18 hours ago
I'm not seeing the advantage of points 1, 2 and 6, and point 5 seems somewhat tenuous (not everyone likes eating together). If anything, point 6 seems like a disadvantage of all being in the same place.
– David Richerby
20 hours ago
I'm not seeing the advantage of points 1, 2 and 6, and point 5 seems somewhat tenuous (not everyone likes eating together). If anything, point 6 seems like a disadvantage of all being in the same place.
– David Richerby
20 hours ago
@DavidRicherby: Points 1 and 2 are an expression of commitment, and are costly and difficult to reverse. Points 1, 2, and 6 foster commitment through hardship. Point 6 fosters camaraderie and through it, again, commitment.
– einpoklum
20 hours ago
@DavidRicherby: Points 1 and 2 are an expression of commitment, and are costly and difficult to reverse. Points 1, 2, and 6 foster commitment through hardship. Point 6 fosters camaraderie and through it, again, commitment.
– einpoklum
20 hours ago
Oh. I thought the point of a postdoc was to do good research, not to endure suffering.
– David Richerby
20 hours ago
Oh. I thought the point of a postdoc was to do good research, not to endure suffering.
– David Richerby
20 hours ago
@DavidRicherby: "By the sweat of thy brow shall you eat bread", -Genesis 3:19. Or, "No pain, no gain" -Jane Fonda, exercise video
– einpoklum
20 hours ago
@DavidRicherby: "By the sweat of thy brow shall you eat bread", -Genesis 3:19. Or, "No pain, no gain" -Jane Fonda, exercise video
– einpoklum
20 hours ago
1
1
Perhaps the importance or non-importance of those points depend on the personality of the particular postdoc candidate. Maybe some need that 'special environment'/way of life in order to do good research, while others do not need it, or even such an anvironment may hinder them (like me. I prefer to be in my 'natural' environment in order to concentrate on my research).
– user237522
18 hours ago
Perhaps the importance or non-importance of those points depend on the personality of the particular postdoc candidate. Maybe some need that 'special environment'/way of life in order to do good research, while others do not need it, or even such an anvironment may hinder them (like me. I prefer to be in my 'natural' environment in order to concentrate on my research).
– user237522
18 hours ago
|
show 4 more comments
up vote
2
down vote
I'm a postdoc in computer science, working remotely for a UK university, from a different continent.
However, I've been a postdoc for 2 years and it's just the last 3 months of my contract that I've arranged with my supervisor to do remotely, before that I was in the UK.
I'll add my direct experience to the chorus: being remote is hard, for motivation, for having constructive meetings, for being part of the community... there are conceivably tasks that can be done remotely, but research where you need to discuss hard problems with a supervisor are just not well suited for remote work.
A few weeks at a time are manageable, but longer term is a bad idea. On the other hand, I think being on-site once a week or so, is very manageable.
There are also a few administrative obstacles:
The terms of a fellowship / visa limit how long you're allowed to be away from the UK (it happens I'm not affect by that as I'm an EU citizen, but a friend of mine from Canada is).
There's a university policy that says that all academic staff have travel insurance when they travel: in this case I'm away without "travelling" and when I travel to the UK I'm at my official workplace, so why would they give me a separate insurance?
There could be more that I've avoided from doing the remote thing less than 3 months, and other constraints in other countries... I just mention the UK ones I know as examples.
Thanks. Interesting.
– user237522
15 hours ago
add a comment |
up vote
2
down vote
I'm a postdoc in computer science, working remotely for a UK university, from a different continent.
However, I've been a postdoc for 2 years and it's just the last 3 months of my contract that I've arranged with my supervisor to do remotely, before that I was in the UK.
I'll add my direct experience to the chorus: being remote is hard, for motivation, for having constructive meetings, for being part of the community... there are conceivably tasks that can be done remotely, but research where you need to discuss hard problems with a supervisor are just not well suited for remote work.
A few weeks at a time are manageable, but longer term is a bad idea. On the other hand, I think being on-site once a week or so, is very manageable.
There are also a few administrative obstacles:
The terms of a fellowship / visa limit how long you're allowed to be away from the UK (it happens I'm not affect by that as I'm an EU citizen, but a friend of mine from Canada is).
There's a university policy that says that all academic staff have travel insurance when they travel: in this case I'm away without "travelling" and when I travel to the UK I'm at my official workplace, so why would they give me a separate insurance?
There could be more that I've avoided from doing the remote thing less than 3 months, and other constraints in other countries... I just mention the UK ones I know as examples.
Thanks. Interesting.
– user237522
15 hours ago
add a comment |
up vote
2
down vote
up vote
2
down vote
I'm a postdoc in computer science, working remotely for a UK university, from a different continent.
However, I've been a postdoc for 2 years and it's just the last 3 months of my contract that I've arranged with my supervisor to do remotely, before that I was in the UK.
I'll add my direct experience to the chorus: being remote is hard, for motivation, for having constructive meetings, for being part of the community... there are conceivably tasks that can be done remotely, but research where you need to discuss hard problems with a supervisor are just not well suited for remote work.
A few weeks at a time are manageable, but longer term is a bad idea. On the other hand, I think being on-site once a week or so, is very manageable.
There are also a few administrative obstacles:
The terms of a fellowship / visa limit how long you're allowed to be away from the UK (it happens I'm not affect by that as I'm an EU citizen, but a friend of mine from Canada is).
There's a university policy that says that all academic staff have travel insurance when they travel: in this case I'm away without "travelling" and when I travel to the UK I'm at my official workplace, so why would they give me a separate insurance?
There could be more that I've avoided from doing the remote thing less than 3 months, and other constraints in other countries... I just mention the UK ones I know as examples.
I'm a postdoc in computer science, working remotely for a UK university, from a different continent.
However, I've been a postdoc for 2 years and it's just the last 3 months of my contract that I've arranged with my supervisor to do remotely, before that I was in the UK.
I'll add my direct experience to the chorus: being remote is hard, for motivation, for having constructive meetings, for being part of the community... there are conceivably tasks that can be done remotely, but research where you need to discuss hard problems with a supervisor are just not well suited for remote work.
A few weeks at a time are manageable, but longer term is a bad idea. On the other hand, I think being on-site once a week or so, is very manageable.
There are also a few administrative obstacles:
The terms of a fellowship / visa limit how long you're allowed to be away from the UK (it happens I'm not affect by that as I'm an EU citizen, but a friend of mine from Canada is).
There's a university policy that says that all academic staff have travel insurance when they travel: in this case I'm away without "travelling" and when I travel to the UK I'm at my official workplace, so why would they give me a separate insurance?
There could be more that I've avoided from doing the remote thing less than 3 months, and other constraints in other countries... I just mention the UK ones I know as examples.
answered 16 hours ago
user3780968
67036
67036
Thanks. Interesting.
– user237522
15 hours ago
add a comment |
Thanks. Interesting.
– user237522
15 hours ago
Thanks. Interesting.
– user237522
15 hours ago
Thanks. Interesting.
– user237522
15 hours ago
add a comment |
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9
In mathematics it might work, but I never heard about such positions. A position typically involves funding (and hence you move to where the PA is). What you describe is rather a research partnership.
– Oleg Lobachev
2 days ago
1
When you say "own county", do you mean that literally? There are generally visa and tax considerations to this sort of outsourcing when it happens internationally.
– origimbo
2 days ago
1
Apart from the obvious point that you'll have to exclude all positions that have a teaching load, there might also be insurance problems. For example, your job will most likely have healthcare, however many insurance policies will only pay for costs incurred in their own country.
– mlk
2 days ago
3
Your question has been flagged as being unsuited to the site because it's opinion-based. I think this is because of the phrase "Do you think that such a position should be availabe" -- it sounds like you're asking whether it would be proper for a university to offer such a position. I wonder if you really mean "... would be available", i.e., asking whether such positions exist.
– David Richerby
2 days ago
1
Regarding the difference between Skype Meetings and personal meetings: This is partially true. Durign Skype meetings you may share a screen and present materials prepared in advance, but you would have a hard time working in real-time (e.g. getting a piece of paper and drawing a sketch). Also the communication is noisy and sometimes annoying, don't expect to be as well understood via Skype as you are in person. If you are working with mathematics, a thing you might consider is that if you perform computational simulations you may need to simulate and interact personally and together over code.
– Mefitico
yesterday