Was there a “secret” recording of the American founding fathers' deliberations?












18














I remember that there was someone who wrote down the stuff the founding fathers talked about behind closed doors. Can't remember his name. Who was he again?










share|improve this question




















  • 20




    You remember? Goodness, you must be old.
    – RedSonja
    Dec 18 '18 at 11:36






  • 2




    I think it was Rittenhouse, from Timeless. When it comes to keeping minutes, who better than a clockmaker?
    – Walter Mitty
    Dec 18 '18 at 15:51










  • @WalterMitty - I'll second that.
    – Don Branson
    Dec 18 '18 at 23:37
















18














I remember that there was someone who wrote down the stuff the founding fathers talked about behind closed doors. Can't remember his name. Who was he again?










share|improve this question




















  • 20




    You remember? Goodness, you must be old.
    – RedSonja
    Dec 18 '18 at 11:36






  • 2




    I think it was Rittenhouse, from Timeless. When it comes to keeping minutes, who better than a clockmaker?
    – Walter Mitty
    Dec 18 '18 at 15:51










  • @WalterMitty - I'll second that.
    – Don Branson
    Dec 18 '18 at 23:37














18












18








18


6





I remember that there was someone who wrote down the stuff the founding fathers talked about behind closed doors. Can't remember his name. Who was he again?










share|improve this question















I remember that there was someone who wrote down the stuff the founding fathers talked about behind closed doors. Can't remember his name. Who was he again?







united-states founding-fathers






share|improve this question















share|improve this question













share|improve this question




share|improve this question








edited Dec 18 '18 at 10:17









Mark C. Wallace

23.3k972111




23.3k972111










asked Dec 18 '18 at 5:19









user1050755

19615




19615








  • 20




    You remember? Goodness, you must be old.
    – RedSonja
    Dec 18 '18 at 11:36






  • 2




    I think it was Rittenhouse, from Timeless. When it comes to keeping minutes, who better than a clockmaker?
    – Walter Mitty
    Dec 18 '18 at 15:51










  • @WalterMitty - I'll second that.
    – Don Branson
    Dec 18 '18 at 23:37














  • 20




    You remember? Goodness, you must be old.
    – RedSonja
    Dec 18 '18 at 11:36






  • 2




    I think it was Rittenhouse, from Timeless. When it comes to keeping minutes, who better than a clockmaker?
    – Walter Mitty
    Dec 18 '18 at 15:51










  • @WalterMitty - I'll second that.
    – Don Branson
    Dec 18 '18 at 23:37








20




20




You remember? Goodness, you must be old.
– RedSonja
Dec 18 '18 at 11:36




You remember? Goodness, you must be old.
– RedSonja
Dec 18 '18 at 11:36




2




2




I think it was Rittenhouse, from Timeless. When it comes to keeping minutes, who better than a clockmaker?
– Walter Mitty
Dec 18 '18 at 15:51




I think it was Rittenhouse, from Timeless. When it comes to keeping minutes, who better than a clockmaker?
– Walter Mitty
Dec 18 '18 at 15:51












@WalterMitty - I'll second that.
– Don Branson
Dec 18 '18 at 23:37




@WalterMitty - I'll second that.
– Don Branson
Dec 18 '18 at 23:37










3 Answers
3






active

oldest

votes


















26














Assuming you are talking about the Constitutional Convention...



It wasn't a "secret", but I suppose it is conveniently ignored by a lot of people that there were extensive records kept of the deliberations. They were delivered by the convention secretary to the convention "president" (George Washington, of course). Congress ordered them all printed in 1819.



Max Farrand in 1911 compiled them all and reprinted them together (in multiple volumes) as The Records of the Federal Convention of 1787.



I haven't read them myself directly, but they were from multiple sources, not just official proceedings notes. According to the link above, aside from the official notes the largest amount of material in there was written by James Madison. From the secondary sources I've read, it seems like rather a lot of the material in there was originally written by Alexander Hamilton as well.






share|improve this answer























  • I think that's what I remembered. I first heard about it on Thom Hartmann's program over at youtube - he sometimes reads interesting history related stuff.
    – user1050755
    Dec 18 '18 at 7:07



















11














In 2011, the New York Historical Society acquired the Constitutional Convention notebooks of John Lansing, Jr., a New York delegate to the 1787 Philadelphia Convention. According to this announcement:




The delegates’ vow of secrecy, which banned the taking of notes for publication, limited the amount of material created documenting the Convention proceedings. Although notes by a number of other delegates, including James Madison, survive, Lansing’s are among the purest and most detailed, providing a unique and unedited first-hand account of the period of Lansing’s attendance at the Convention.




The society also holds the notes of Massachusetts delegate Rufus King, and has on deposit those of South Carolinian Pierce Butler.






share|improve this answer





























    2














    You are likely thinking of The Federalist Papers (Wikipedia here),




    Beginning on October 27, 1787 the Federalist Papers were first published in the New York press under the signature of "Publius". These papers are generally considered to be one of the most important contributions to political thought made in America.




    The papers were actually written by James Madison, Alexander Hamilton and John Jay, all under the single pseudonym Publius as noted above. They were never secret, and were published as they were written as part of the campaign to achieve ratification of the Constitution.






    share|improve this answer

















    • 1




      I remember there were some meetings behind closed windows etc., pretty secretive. Maybe deliberations about the declaration of independence?
      – user1050755
      Dec 18 '18 at 5:46






    • 2




      @user1050755: Nope - worst kept secret in history: "In the campaign to revise Congressional instructions [to enable a declaration of independence], many Americans formally expressed their support for separation from Great Britain in what were effectively state and local declarations of independence. Historian Pauline Maier identifies more than ninety such declarations that were issued throughout the Thirteen Colonies from April to July 1776."
      – Pieter Geerkens
      Dec 18 '18 at 6:00








    • 1




      @user1050755 might be thinking of the constitution itself which seems to have been written in camera. (Revolutions podcast)
      – Samuel Russell
      Dec 18 '18 at 8:29






    • 1




      @SamuelRussell: Yep. I missed that possibility but T.E.D. picked it up.
      – Pieter Geerkens
      Dec 18 '18 at 8:51










    • The Federalist Papers were not recordings of deliberation. They were essentially pro-Constitution propaganda, and in most respects reflected the general arguments for a given provision, and did that very well, which is why they're a treasure of political thought.
      – David Thornley
      Dec 21 '18 at 18:45











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    3 Answers
    3






    active

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    3 Answers
    3






    active

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    active

    oldest

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    active

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    26














    Assuming you are talking about the Constitutional Convention...



    It wasn't a "secret", but I suppose it is conveniently ignored by a lot of people that there were extensive records kept of the deliberations. They were delivered by the convention secretary to the convention "president" (George Washington, of course). Congress ordered them all printed in 1819.



    Max Farrand in 1911 compiled them all and reprinted them together (in multiple volumes) as The Records of the Federal Convention of 1787.



    I haven't read them myself directly, but they were from multiple sources, not just official proceedings notes. According to the link above, aside from the official notes the largest amount of material in there was written by James Madison. From the secondary sources I've read, it seems like rather a lot of the material in there was originally written by Alexander Hamilton as well.






    share|improve this answer























    • I think that's what I remembered. I first heard about it on Thom Hartmann's program over at youtube - he sometimes reads interesting history related stuff.
      – user1050755
      Dec 18 '18 at 7:07
















    26














    Assuming you are talking about the Constitutional Convention...



    It wasn't a "secret", but I suppose it is conveniently ignored by a lot of people that there were extensive records kept of the deliberations. They were delivered by the convention secretary to the convention "president" (George Washington, of course). Congress ordered them all printed in 1819.



    Max Farrand in 1911 compiled them all and reprinted them together (in multiple volumes) as The Records of the Federal Convention of 1787.



    I haven't read them myself directly, but they were from multiple sources, not just official proceedings notes. According to the link above, aside from the official notes the largest amount of material in there was written by James Madison. From the secondary sources I've read, it seems like rather a lot of the material in there was originally written by Alexander Hamilton as well.






    share|improve this answer























    • I think that's what I remembered. I first heard about it on Thom Hartmann's program over at youtube - he sometimes reads interesting history related stuff.
      – user1050755
      Dec 18 '18 at 7:07














    26












    26








    26






    Assuming you are talking about the Constitutional Convention...



    It wasn't a "secret", but I suppose it is conveniently ignored by a lot of people that there were extensive records kept of the deliberations. They were delivered by the convention secretary to the convention "president" (George Washington, of course). Congress ordered them all printed in 1819.



    Max Farrand in 1911 compiled them all and reprinted them together (in multiple volumes) as The Records of the Federal Convention of 1787.



    I haven't read them myself directly, but they were from multiple sources, not just official proceedings notes. According to the link above, aside from the official notes the largest amount of material in there was written by James Madison. From the secondary sources I've read, it seems like rather a lot of the material in there was originally written by Alexander Hamilton as well.






    share|improve this answer














    Assuming you are talking about the Constitutional Convention...



    It wasn't a "secret", but I suppose it is conveniently ignored by a lot of people that there were extensive records kept of the deliberations. They were delivered by the convention secretary to the convention "president" (George Washington, of course). Congress ordered them all printed in 1819.



    Max Farrand in 1911 compiled them all and reprinted them together (in multiple volumes) as The Records of the Federal Convention of 1787.



    I haven't read them myself directly, but they were from multiple sources, not just official proceedings notes. According to the link above, aside from the official notes the largest amount of material in there was written by James Madison. From the secondary sources I've read, it seems like rather a lot of the material in there was originally written by Alexander Hamilton as well.







    share|improve this answer














    share|improve this answer



    share|improve this answer








    edited Dec 18 '18 at 6:33

























    answered Dec 18 '18 at 6:30









    T.E.D.

    73.2k10161299




    73.2k10161299












    • I think that's what I remembered. I first heard about it on Thom Hartmann's program over at youtube - he sometimes reads interesting history related stuff.
      – user1050755
      Dec 18 '18 at 7:07


















    • I think that's what I remembered. I first heard about it on Thom Hartmann's program over at youtube - he sometimes reads interesting history related stuff.
      – user1050755
      Dec 18 '18 at 7:07
















    I think that's what I remembered. I first heard about it on Thom Hartmann's program over at youtube - he sometimes reads interesting history related stuff.
    – user1050755
    Dec 18 '18 at 7:07




    I think that's what I remembered. I first heard about it on Thom Hartmann's program over at youtube - he sometimes reads interesting history related stuff.
    – user1050755
    Dec 18 '18 at 7:07











    11














    In 2011, the New York Historical Society acquired the Constitutional Convention notebooks of John Lansing, Jr., a New York delegate to the 1787 Philadelphia Convention. According to this announcement:




    The delegates’ vow of secrecy, which banned the taking of notes for publication, limited the amount of material created documenting the Convention proceedings. Although notes by a number of other delegates, including James Madison, survive, Lansing’s are among the purest and most detailed, providing a unique and unedited first-hand account of the period of Lansing’s attendance at the Convention.




    The society also holds the notes of Massachusetts delegate Rufus King, and has on deposit those of South Carolinian Pierce Butler.






    share|improve this answer


























      11














      In 2011, the New York Historical Society acquired the Constitutional Convention notebooks of John Lansing, Jr., a New York delegate to the 1787 Philadelphia Convention. According to this announcement:




      The delegates’ vow of secrecy, which banned the taking of notes for publication, limited the amount of material created documenting the Convention proceedings. Although notes by a number of other delegates, including James Madison, survive, Lansing’s are among the purest and most detailed, providing a unique and unedited first-hand account of the period of Lansing’s attendance at the Convention.




      The society also holds the notes of Massachusetts delegate Rufus King, and has on deposit those of South Carolinian Pierce Butler.






      share|improve this answer
























        11












        11








        11






        In 2011, the New York Historical Society acquired the Constitutional Convention notebooks of John Lansing, Jr., a New York delegate to the 1787 Philadelphia Convention. According to this announcement:




        The delegates’ vow of secrecy, which banned the taking of notes for publication, limited the amount of material created documenting the Convention proceedings. Although notes by a number of other delegates, including James Madison, survive, Lansing’s are among the purest and most detailed, providing a unique and unedited first-hand account of the period of Lansing’s attendance at the Convention.




        The society also holds the notes of Massachusetts delegate Rufus King, and has on deposit those of South Carolinian Pierce Butler.






        share|improve this answer












        In 2011, the New York Historical Society acquired the Constitutional Convention notebooks of John Lansing, Jr., a New York delegate to the 1787 Philadelphia Convention. According to this announcement:




        The delegates’ vow of secrecy, which banned the taking of notes for publication, limited the amount of material created documenting the Convention proceedings. Although notes by a number of other delegates, including James Madison, survive, Lansing’s are among the purest and most detailed, providing a unique and unedited first-hand account of the period of Lansing’s attendance at the Convention.




        The society also holds the notes of Massachusetts delegate Rufus King, and has on deposit those of South Carolinian Pierce Butler.







        share|improve this answer












        share|improve this answer



        share|improve this answer










        answered Dec 18 '18 at 15:09









        sdenham

        24316




        24316























            2














            You are likely thinking of The Federalist Papers (Wikipedia here),




            Beginning on October 27, 1787 the Federalist Papers were first published in the New York press under the signature of "Publius". These papers are generally considered to be one of the most important contributions to political thought made in America.




            The papers were actually written by James Madison, Alexander Hamilton and John Jay, all under the single pseudonym Publius as noted above. They were never secret, and were published as they were written as part of the campaign to achieve ratification of the Constitution.






            share|improve this answer

















            • 1




              I remember there were some meetings behind closed windows etc., pretty secretive. Maybe deliberations about the declaration of independence?
              – user1050755
              Dec 18 '18 at 5:46






            • 2




              @user1050755: Nope - worst kept secret in history: "In the campaign to revise Congressional instructions [to enable a declaration of independence], many Americans formally expressed their support for separation from Great Britain in what were effectively state and local declarations of independence. Historian Pauline Maier identifies more than ninety such declarations that were issued throughout the Thirteen Colonies from April to July 1776."
              – Pieter Geerkens
              Dec 18 '18 at 6:00








            • 1




              @user1050755 might be thinking of the constitution itself which seems to have been written in camera. (Revolutions podcast)
              – Samuel Russell
              Dec 18 '18 at 8:29






            • 1




              @SamuelRussell: Yep. I missed that possibility but T.E.D. picked it up.
              – Pieter Geerkens
              Dec 18 '18 at 8:51










            • The Federalist Papers were not recordings of deliberation. They were essentially pro-Constitution propaganda, and in most respects reflected the general arguments for a given provision, and did that very well, which is why they're a treasure of political thought.
              – David Thornley
              Dec 21 '18 at 18:45
















            2














            You are likely thinking of The Federalist Papers (Wikipedia here),




            Beginning on October 27, 1787 the Federalist Papers were first published in the New York press under the signature of "Publius". These papers are generally considered to be one of the most important contributions to political thought made in America.




            The papers were actually written by James Madison, Alexander Hamilton and John Jay, all under the single pseudonym Publius as noted above. They were never secret, and were published as they were written as part of the campaign to achieve ratification of the Constitution.






            share|improve this answer

















            • 1




              I remember there were some meetings behind closed windows etc., pretty secretive. Maybe deliberations about the declaration of independence?
              – user1050755
              Dec 18 '18 at 5:46






            • 2




              @user1050755: Nope - worst kept secret in history: "In the campaign to revise Congressional instructions [to enable a declaration of independence], many Americans formally expressed their support for separation from Great Britain in what were effectively state and local declarations of independence. Historian Pauline Maier identifies more than ninety such declarations that were issued throughout the Thirteen Colonies from April to July 1776."
              – Pieter Geerkens
              Dec 18 '18 at 6:00








            • 1




              @user1050755 might be thinking of the constitution itself which seems to have been written in camera. (Revolutions podcast)
              – Samuel Russell
              Dec 18 '18 at 8:29






            • 1




              @SamuelRussell: Yep. I missed that possibility but T.E.D. picked it up.
              – Pieter Geerkens
              Dec 18 '18 at 8:51










            • The Federalist Papers were not recordings of deliberation. They were essentially pro-Constitution propaganda, and in most respects reflected the general arguments for a given provision, and did that very well, which is why they're a treasure of political thought.
              – David Thornley
              Dec 21 '18 at 18:45














            2












            2








            2






            You are likely thinking of The Federalist Papers (Wikipedia here),




            Beginning on October 27, 1787 the Federalist Papers were first published in the New York press under the signature of "Publius". These papers are generally considered to be one of the most important contributions to political thought made in America.




            The papers were actually written by James Madison, Alexander Hamilton and John Jay, all under the single pseudonym Publius as noted above. They were never secret, and were published as they were written as part of the campaign to achieve ratification of the Constitution.






            share|improve this answer












            You are likely thinking of The Federalist Papers (Wikipedia here),




            Beginning on October 27, 1787 the Federalist Papers were first published in the New York press under the signature of "Publius". These papers are generally considered to be one of the most important contributions to political thought made in America.




            The papers were actually written by James Madison, Alexander Hamilton and John Jay, all under the single pseudonym Publius as noted above. They were never secret, and were published as they were written as part of the campaign to achieve ratification of the Constitution.







            share|improve this answer












            share|improve this answer



            share|improve this answer










            answered Dec 18 '18 at 5:28









            Pieter Geerkens

            39.2k6116187




            39.2k6116187








            • 1




              I remember there were some meetings behind closed windows etc., pretty secretive. Maybe deliberations about the declaration of independence?
              – user1050755
              Dec 18 '18 at 5:46






            • 2




              @user1050755: Nope - worst kept secret in history: "In the campaign to revise Congressional instructions [to enable a declaration of independence], many Americans formally expressed their support for separation from Great Britain in what were effectively state and local declarations of independence. Historian Pauline Maier identifies more than ninety such declarations that were issued throughout the Thirteen Colonies from April to July 1776."
              – Pieter Geerkens
              Dec 18 '18 at 6:00








            • 1




              @user1050755 might be thinking of the constitution itself which seems to have been written in camera. (Revolutions podcast)
              – Samuel Russell
              Dec 18 '18 at 8:29






            • 1




              @SamuelRussell: Yep. I missed that possibility but T.E.D. picked it up.
              – Pieter Geerkens
              Dec 18 '18 at 8:51










            • The Federalist Papers were not recordings of deliberation. They were essentially pro-Constitution propaganda, and in most respects reflected the general arguments for a given provision, and did that very well, which is why they're a treasure of political thought.
              – David Thornley
              Dec 21 '18 at 18:45














            • 1




              I remember there were some meetings behind closed windows etc., pretty secretive. Maybe deliberations about the declaration of independence?
              – user1050755
              Dec 18 '18 at 5:46






            • 2




              @user1050755: Nope - worst kept secret in history: "In the campaign to revise Congressional instructions [to enable a declaration of independence], many Americans formally expressed their support for separation from Great Britain in what were effectively state and local declarations of independence. Historian Pauline Maier identifies more than ninety such declarations that were issued throughout the Thirteen Colonies from April to July 1776."
              – Pieter Geerkens
              Dec 18 '18 at 6:00








            • 1




              @user1050755 might be thinking of the constitution itself which seems to have been written in camera. (Revolutions podcast)
              – Samuel Russell
              Dec 18 '18 at 8:29






            • 1




              @SamuelRussell: Yep. I missed that possibility but T.E.D. picked it up.
              – Pieter Geerkens
              Dec 18 '18 at 8:51










            • The Federalist Papers were not recordings of deliberation. They were essentially pro-Constitution propaganda, and in most respects reflected the general arguments for a given provision, and did that very well, which is why they're a treasure of political thought.
              – David Thornley
              Dec 21 '18 at 18:45








            1




            1




            I remember there were some meetings behind closed windows etc., pretty secretive. Maybe deliberations about the declaration of independence?
            – user1050755
            Dec 18 '18 at 5:46




            I remember there were some meetings behind closed windows etc., pretty secretive. Maybe deliberations about the declaration of independence?
            – user1050755
            Dec 18 '18 at 5:46




            2




            2




            @user1050755: Nope - worst kept secret in history: "In the campaign to revise Congressional instructions [to enable a declaration of independence], many Americans formally expressed their support for separation from Great Britain in what were effectively state and local declarations of independence. Historian Pauline Maier identifies more than ninety such declarations that were issued throughout the Thirteen Colonies from April to July 1776."
            – Pieter Geerkens
            Dec 18 '18 at 6:00






            @user1050755: Nope - worst kept secret in history: "In the campaign to revise Congressional instructions [to enable a declaration of independence], many Americans formally expressed their support for separation from Great Britain in what were effectively state and local declarations of independence. Historian Pauline Maier identifies more than ninety such declarations that were issued throughout the Thirteen Colonies from April to July 1776."
            – Pieter Geerkens
            Dec 18 '18 at 6:00






            1




            1




            @user1050755 might be thinking of the constitution itself which seems to have been written in camera. (Revolutions podcast)
            – Samuel Russell
            Dec 18 '18 at 8:29




            @user1050755 might be thinking of the constitution itself which seems to have been written in camera. (Revolutions podcast)
            – Samuel Russell
            Dec 18 '18 at 8:29




            1




            1




            @SamuelRussell: Yep. I missed that possibility but T.E.D. picked it up.
            – Pieter Geerkens
            Dec 18 '18 at 8:51




            @SamuelRussell: Yep. I missed that possibility but T.E.D. picked it up.
            – Pieter Geerkens
            Dec 18 '18 at 8:51












            The Federalist Papers were not recordings of deliberation. They were essentially pro-Constitution propaganda, and in most respects reflected the general arguments for a given provision, and did that very well, which is why they're a treasure of political thought.
            – David Thornley
            Dec 21 '18 at 18:45




            The Federalist Papers were not recordings of deliberation. They were essentially pro-Constitution propaganda, and in most respects reflected the general arguments for a given provision, and did that very well, which is why they're a treasure of political thought.
            – David Thornley
            Dec 21 '18 at 18:45


















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