Show that $(sqrt{y^2-x}-x)(sqrt{x^2+y}-y)=y iff x+y=0$
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Let $x,y$ be real numbers such that
$$left(sqrt{y^{2} - x,,}, - xright)left(sqrt{x^{2} + y,,}, - yright)=y$$
Show that $x+y=0$.
My try:
Let
$$sqrt{y^2-x}-x=a,sqrt{x^2+y}-y=bLongrightarrow ab=y$$
and then
$$begin{cases}
y^2=a^2+(2a+1)x+x^2cdotscdots (1)\
x^2=b^2+(2b-1)y+y^2cdotscdots
end{cases}$$
$(1)+(2)$
then
$$x=-dfrac{a^2+b^2+(2b-1)ab}{2a+1}cdotscdots (3)$$
so
$$x+y=ab-dfrac{a^2+b^2+(2b-1)ab}{2a+1}=dfrac{(a-b)(2ab-a+b)}{2a+1}$$
we take $(3)$ in $(2)$,we have
$$b^2+(2b-1)y+y^2-x^2=dfrac{(2ab-a+b)(2a^3b+a^3+3a^2b-2ab^3+ab^2+4ab-b^3+b)}{(2a+1)^2}=0$$
so
$$(2ab-a+b)=0$$
or
$$2a^3b+a^3+3a^2b-2ab^3+ab^2+4ab-b^3+b=0$$
if
$$2ab-a+b=0Longrightarrow x+y=dfrac{(a-b)(2ab-a+b)}{2a+1}=0$$
and if
$$2a^3b+a^3+3a^2b-2ab^3+ab^2+4ab-b^3+b=0$$
I don't prove
$$x+y=dfrac{(a-b)(2ab-a+b)}{2a+1}=0?$$
calculus algebra-precalculus arithmetic radicals
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|
show 2 more comments
$begingroup$
Let $x,y$ be real numbers such that
$$left(sqrt{y^{2} - x,,}, - xright)left(sqrt{x^{2} + y,,}, - yright)=y$$
Show that $x+y=0$.
My try:
Let
$$sqrt{y^2-x}-x=a,sqrt{x^2+y}-y=bLongrightarrow ab=y$$
and then
$$begin{cases}
y^2=a^2+(2a+1)x+x^2cdotscdots (1)\
x^2=b^2+(2b-1)y+y^2cdotscdots
end{cases}$$
$(1)+(2)$
then
$$x=-dfrac{a^2+b^2+(2b-1)ab}{2a+1}cdotscdots (3)$$
so
$$x+y=ab-dfrac{a^2+b^2+(2b-1)ab}{2a+1}=dfrac{(a-b)(2ab-a+b)}{2a+1}$$
we take $(3)$ in $(2)$,we have
$$b^2+(2b-1)y+y^2-x^2=dfrac{(2ab-a+b)(2a^3b+a^3+3a^2b-2ab^3+ab^2+4ab-b^3+b)}{(2a+1)^2}=0$$
so
$$(2ab-a+b)=0$$
or
$$2a^3b+a^3+3a^2b-2ab^3+ab^2+4ab-b^3+b=0$$
if
$$2ab-a+b=0Longrightarrow x+y=dfrac{(a-b)(2ab-a+b)}{2a+1}=0$$
and if
$$2a^3b+a^3+3a^2b-2ab^3+ab^2+4ab-b^3+b=0$$
I don't prove
$$x+y=dfrac{(a-b)(2ab-a+b)}{2a+1}=0?$$
calculus algebra-precalculus arithmetic radicals
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We can't apply inequalities here, as WA shows in (wolframalpha.com/input/…) together with (wolframalpha.com/input/…). (The variable $a$ takes a negative value as well as a positive one, so we don't have $LHSle RHS$ or $RHSle LHS$ consistently)
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– chubakueno
Oct 29 '13 at 2:55
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Yes,But This is different problem,Thank you
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– china math
Oct 29 '13 at 4:37
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Maybe it helps to call $f(x,y) = x+y$, leave all that mess in terms of $f(x,y), x$ and $y$, and check that $partial f/partial x = partial f / partial y = 0$, and see that $f(x,y) = 0 $ at least once.
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– Ivo Terek
Jul 15 '14 at 4:15
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By conjecture, x+y=0, so x = -y. Substitute -y for x in the equation. Solve left side, y=y.
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– Paul Magnussen
Aug 26 '14 at 17:50
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Why isn't it correct to prove by the conjecture $y=-x$?
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– rae306
Aug 26 '14 at 18:29
|
show 2 more comments
$begingroup$
Let $x,y$ be real numbers such that
$$left(sqrt{y^{2} - x,,}, - xright)left(sqrt{x^{2} + y,,}, - yright)=y$$
Show that $x+y=0$.
My try:
Let
$$sqrt{y^2-x}-x=a,sqrt{x^2+y}-y=bLongrightarrow ab=y$$
and then
$$begin{cases}
y^2=a^2+(2a+1)x+x^2cdotscdots (1)\
x^2=b^2+(2b-1)y+y^2cdotscdots
end{cases}$$
$(1)+(2)$
then
$$x=-dfrac{a^2+b^2+(2b-1)ab}{2a+1}cdotscdots (3)$$
so
$$x+y=ab-dfrac{a^2+b^2+(2b-1)ab}{2a+1}=dfrac{(a-b)(2ab-a+b)}{2a+1}$$
we take $(3)$ in $(2)$,we have
$$b^2+(2b-1)y+y^2-x^2=dfrac{(2ab-a+b)(2a^3b+a^3+3a^2b-2ab^3+ab^2+4ab-b^3+b)}{(2a+1)^2}=0$$
so
$$(2ab-a+b)=0$$
or
$$2a^3b+a^3+3a^2b-2ab^3+ab^2+4ab-b^3+b=0$$
if
$$2ab-a+b=0Longrightarrow x+y=dfrac{(a-b)(2ab-a+b)}{2a+1}=0$$
and if
$$2a^3b+a^3+3a^2b-2ab^3+ab^2+4ab-b^3+b=0$$
I don't prove
$$x+y=dfrac{(a-b)(2ab-a+b)}{2a+1}=0?$$
calculus algebra-precalculus arithmetic radicals
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Let $x,y$ be real numbers such that
$$left(sqrt{y^{2} - x,,}, - xright)left(sqrt{x^{2} + y,,}, - yright)=y$$
Show that $x+y=0$.
My try:
Let
$$sqrt{y^2-x}-x=a,sqrt{x^2+y}-y=bLongrightarrow ab=y$$
and then
$$begin{cases}
y^2=a^2+(2a+1)x+x^2cdotscdots (1)\
x^2=b^2+(2b-1)y+y^2cdotscdots
end{cases}$$
$(1)+(2)$
then
$$x=-dfrac{a^2+b^2+(2b-1)ab}{2a+1}cdotscdots (3)$$
so
$$x+y=ab-dfrac{a^2+b^2+(2b-1)ab}{2a+1}=dfrac{(a-b)(2ab-a+b)}{2a+1}$$
we take $(3)$ in $(2)$,we have
$$b^2+(2b-1)y+y^2-x^2=dfrac{(2ab-a+b)(2a^3b+a^3+3a^2b-2ab^3+ab^2+4ab-b^3+b)}{(2a+1)^2}=0$$
so
$$(2ab-a+b)=0$$
or
$$2a^3b+a^3+3a^2b-2ab^3+ab^2+4ab-b^3+b=0$$
if
$$2ab-a+b=0Longrightarrow x+y=dfrac{(a-b)(2ab-a+b)}{2a+1}=0$$
and if
$$2a^3b+a^3+3a^2b-2ab^3+ab^2+4ab-b^3+b=0$$
I don't prove
$$x+y=dfrac{(a-b)(2ab-a+b)}{2a+1}=0?$$
calculus algebra-precalculus arithmetic radicals
calculus algebra-precalculus arithmetic radicals
edited Sep 5 '17 at 2:35
George N. Missailidis
627318
627318
asked Oct 29 '13 at 2:01
china mathchina math
10.2k631117
10.2k631117
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We can't apply inequalities here, as WA shows in (wolframalpha.com/input/…) together with (wolframalpha.com/input/…). (The variable $a$ takes a negative value as well as a positive one, so we don't have $LHSle RHS$ or $RHSle LHS$ consistently)
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– chubakueno
Oct 29 '13 at 2:55
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Yes,But This is different problem,Thank you
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– china math
Oct 29 '13 at 4:37
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Maybe it helps to call $f(x,y) = x+y$, leave all that mess in terms of $f(x,y), x$ and $y$, and check that $partial f/partial x = partial f / partial y = 0$, and see that $f(x,y) = 0 $ at least once.
$endgroup$
– Ivo Terek
Jul 15 '14 at 4:15
$begingroup$
By conjecture, x+y=0, so x = -y. Substitute -y for x in the equation. Solve left side, y=y.
$endgroup$
– Paul Magnussen
Aug 26 '14 at 17:50
$begingroup$
Why isn't it correct to prove by the conjecture $y=-x$?
$endgroup$
– rae306
Aug 26 '14 at 18:29
|
show 2 more comments
$begingroup$
We can't apply inequalities here, as WA shows in (wolframalpha.com/input/…) together with (wolframalpha.com/input/…). (The variable $a$ takes a negative value as well as a positive one, so we don't have $LHSle RHS$ or $RHSle LHS$ consistently)
$endgroup$
– chubakueno
Oct 29 '13 at 2:55
$begingroup$
Yes,But This is different problem,Thank you
$endgroup$
– china math
Oct 29 '13 at 4:37
$begingroup$
Maybe it helps to call $f(x,y) = x+y$, leave all that mess in terms of $f(x,y), x$ and $y$, and check that $partial f/partial x = partial f / partial y = 0$, and see that $f(x,y) = 0 $ at least once.
$endgroup$
– Ivo Terek
Jul 15 '14 at 4:15
$begingroup$
By conjecture, x+y=0, so x = -y. Substitute -y for x in the equation. Solve left side, y=y.
$endgroup$
– Paul Magnussen
Aug 26 '14 at 17:50
$begingroup$
Why isn't it correct to prove by the conjecture $y=-x$?
$endgroup$
– rae306
Aug 26 '14 at 18:29
$begingroup$
We can't apply inequalities here, as WA shows in (wolframalpha.com/input/…) together with (wolframalpha.com/input/…). (The variable $a$ takes a negative value as well as a positive one, so we don't have $LHSle RHS$ or $RHSle LHS$ consistently)
$endgroup$
– chubakueno
Oct 29 '13 at 2:55
$begingroup$
We can't apply inequalities here, as WA shows in (wolframalpha.com/input/…) together with (wolframalpha.com/input/…). (The variable $a$ takes a negative value as well as a positive one, so we don't have $LHSle RHS$ or $RHSle LHS$ consistently)
$endgroup$
– chubakueno
Oct 29 '13 at 2:55
$begingroup$
Yes,But This is different problem,Thank you
$endgroup$
– china math
Oct 29 '13 at 4:37
$begingroup$
Yes,But This is different problem,Thank you
$endgroup$
– china math
Oct 29 '13 at 4:37
$begingroup$
Maybe it helps to call $f(x,y) = x+y$, leave all that mess in terms of $f(x,y), x$ and $y$, and check that $partial f/partial x = partial f / partial y = 0$, and see that $f(x,y) = 0 $ at least once.
$endgroup$
– Ivo Terek
Jul 15 '14 at 4:15
$begingroup$
Maybe it helps to call $f(x,y) = x+y$, leave all that mess in terms of $f(x,y), x$ and $y$, and check that $partial f/partial x = partial f / partial y = 0$, and see that $f(x,y) = 0 $ at least once.
$endgroup$
– Ivo Terek
Jul 15 '14 at 4:15
$begingroup$
By conjecture, x+y=0, so x = -y. Substitute -y for x in the equation. Solve left side, y=y.
$endgroup$
– Paul Magnussen
Aug 26 '14 at 17:50
$begingroup$
By conjecture, x+y=0, so x = -y. Substitute -y for x in the equation. Solve left side, y=y.
$endgroup$
– Paul Magnussen
Aug 26 '14 at 17:50
$begingroup$
Why isn't it correct to prove by the conjecture $y=-x$?
$endgroup$
– rae306
Aug 26 '14 at 18:29
$begingroup$
Why isn't it correct to prove by the conjecture $y=-x$?
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– rae306
Aug 26 '14 at 18:29
|
show 2 more comments
7 Answers
7
active
oldest
votes
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Assume that $x<0$ and $y>0$, your statement can be written (even if we change $x$ to $-x$),
If $x,y$ are strictly positive such that $(sqrt{y^2+x}+x)(sqrt{x^2+y}-y)=y$ then $x=y$.
This equality becomes, $$overbrace{dfrac{x+sqrt{x+y^2}}{y+sqrt{y+x^2}}}^{A}=overbrace{dfrac{y}{x^2+y-y^2}}^{B}.$$ Let us start with $x>y$, clearly $B<1$. Moreover $xmapsto(x-sqrt{y+x^2})$ is increasing and $xmapsto sqrt{y+x^2}$ strictly increasing, we conclude that $xmapsto(x+sqrt{x+y^2})-(y+sqrt{y+x^2})$ is strictly increasing and thus $A>0$ when $x>y$. We deduces that $A>1$ and therefore $A$ cannot be equal to $B$.
The case $x<y$ can be treated in the same way.
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@Downvoters: Would you care to explain?
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– Krokop
Aug 26 '14 at 18:23
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I upvoted you because I think your solution is definitely the right way to go. However, it could use more detail: we want to be more rigorous about showing that $A'(x) > 0$. Also, you should have written $A > 1$ when $x > y$.
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– heropup
Aug 26 '14 at 21:27
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@Krokop I think the downvoter is OP.. All of the answers in this thread have been downvoted.
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– Cameron Williams
Aug 27 '14 at 3:09
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@heropup Thanks for your comment, I edited to add some detail.
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– Krokop
Aug 28 '14 at 12:07
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@CameronWilliams It seems that he wants (always) a full detailed solution..
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– Krokop
Aug 28 '14 at 12:12
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show 1 more comment
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Multiplication:
$y=x y-x sqrt{x^2+y}-y sqrt{-x+y^2}+sqrt{x^2+y} sqrt{-x+y^2} Rightarrow$
$x sqrt{x^2+y}+y sqrt{-x+y^2}=sqrt{x^2+y} sqrt{-x+y^2}+xy-y$
squaring both sides:
$2 x y sqrt{x^2+y} sqrt{y^2-x}+x^4+x^2 y-x y^2+y^4=
-x^3-x y+y^2-2 x y^2+2 x^2 y^2+y^3+(2 x y-2 y )sqrt{x^2+y} sqrt{-x+y^2} Rightarrow $
simplifying:
$x^4+x^3-2 x^2 y^2+x^2 y+x y^2+x y+y^4-y^3-y^2 = -2 y sqrt{x^2+y} sqrt{y^2-x}$
Squaring again:
$y^8 - 2 y^7 - 4 x^2 y^6 + 2 x y^6 - y^6 + 6 x^2 y^5 + 2 y^5 + 6 x^4 y^4 - 2 x^3 y^4 + 3 x^2 y^4 - 4 x y^4 + y^4 - 6 x^4 y^3 - 4 x^3 y^3 - 2 x y^3 - 4 x^6 y^2 - 2 x^5 y^2 + x^4 y^2 + x^2 y^2 + 2 x^6 y + 4 x^5 y + 2 x^4 y + x^8 + 2 x^7 + x^6=
-4 x^3 y^2+4 x^2 y^4-4 x y^3+4 y^5$
The only thing we have to check is how it factors as $(y+x) (p(x,y))$. Which gives us:
$(x+y)^2(x^6-2 x^5 y+2 x^5-x^4 y^2-2 x^4 y+x^4+4 x^3 y^3+2 x^3 y-x^2 y^4-4 x^2 y^3-4 x^2 y^2+2 x^2 y-2 x y^5+6 x y^4+2 x y^3+y^6-2 y^5-y^4-2 y^3+y^2)=0$
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Your last inequality is wrong. Try $x=0.8$ and $y=1$.
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– Michael Rozenberg
Nov 29 '18 at 7:07
add a comment |
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In the following proof we divide the $(x,y)$ plane into regions (see diagram) and show that each region can contain no solutions except on the line $x + y = 0$.
Let
$$
F(x,y) = U(x,y)V(x,y) – y
$$
where
$$
U(x,y) = sqrt{y^2 – x} ,, – x
\V(x,y) = sqrt{x^2 + y} ,, – y
$$
Then solutions satisfy
$$
F(x,y) = 0
$$
Substituting $y=-x$ shows that $x+y=0$ is a solution for all x.
U is nonreal where $x>y^2$ (regions A and C in the diagram, bounded by red lines) and V is nonreal in the region $y<-x^2$ (regions B and C, also bounded by red lines). In these regions F is nonreal except possibly in region C, where U and V are both unreal. But there the condition for F to be real reduces to $x+y=0$, a subset of the known solution.
The following statements and deductions relate to the other regions of the $(x,y)$ plane, where $U$ and $V$ are real.
$U<0 Leftrightarrow x>tfrac{1}{2}(-1 + sqrt{1 + 4y^2})$ (regions I, J).
$V<0 Leftrightarrow y>tfrac{1}{2}(1 + sqrt{1 + 4x^2})$ (all regions except F, G).
$U_{x} < 0$ (regions D-K)
$V_{x} < 0 Leftrightarrow x < 0$ (regions D, E, F)
$U_{xx} < 0$ (regions D-K)
$V_{xx} < 0 Leftrightarrow y < 0$ (regions D, J, K)
where a subscript x denotes partial differentiation with respect to x.
On the diagram the lines on which $U=0$ and $V=0$ are coloured green and blue, respectively. It is easily shown that $F$ is nonzero on all the coloured lines (with sign as indicated) except at $(0,0)$ and $(1,-1)$. These lines delimit, but are excluded from, the regions A-K.
From the results above we can make the following deductions.
In region D:
$$
U>0, V>0, U_{x}<0, V_{x}<0
\F_{x} = UV_{x} + VU_{x} < 0
$$
This region is bounded on the right by the line $y<-x^2$, on which $F>0$. So $F>0$ throughout region D and it can contain no solutions.
In region E:
$$
U>0, V>0, U_{x}<0, V_{x}<0
\F_{x} < 0
$$
so here there can be no solutions other than those known to exist on the line $y=-x$.
In region F:
$$
U>0, V<0, U_{x}<0, V_{x}<0, U_{xx}<0, V_{xx}>0
\F_{xx} = UV_{xx} + VU_{xx} + 2U_{x}V_{x} > 0
$$
This region is bounded on the left by the line $V=0$ and on the right by the line $x = 0$, and on both these lines $F<0$. So the positive second derivative $F_{xx}$ means there can be no solutions $F=0$ in this region.
In a similar way, solutions can be ruled out for the following regions:
In region G, bounded on right by the line $V=0$ on which $F<0$:
$$
U>0, V<0, U_{x}<0, V_{x}>0
\F_{x}>0
$$
In region I, bounded on left by the line $U=0$ on which $F<0$:
$$
U<0, V>0, U_{x}<0, V_{x}>0
\F_{x} < 0
$$
In region J, containing a segment of the known solution line $x+y=0$ on which $F=0$:
$$
U<0, V>0, U_{x}<0, V_{x}>0
\F_{x} < 0
$$
In region K, bounded on the left and right by lines on which $F>0$:
$$
U>0, V>0, U_{x}<0, V_{x}>0, U_{xx}<0, V_{xx}<0
\F_{xx} = UV_{xx} + VU_{xx} + 2U_{x}V_{x} < 0
$$
Finally, in region H:
$$
U>0, V>0, U_{x}<0, V_{x}>0
$$
and we note that $U_{x}<0$ in region G also, so for a given $y$,
$U<U_{max}$, where $U_{max} = U(0,y) = y$
For the same value of y, $V<V_{max}$, where $V_{max} = V(X,y)$, and X is the value of x on the right-hand boundary of the region. On this boundary, $y=sqrt{X^2+X}$, so
$$
V_{max} = V(X,y) = sqrt{X^2+y} , – y
< sqrt{X^2+X+y} , - y = sqrt{y^2 + y} ,, – y < tfrac{1}{2}.
$$
Therefore
$$
F = UV – y < U_{max} V_{max} – y < y tfrac{1}{2} – y = , –tfrac{1}{2} y < 0
$$
which completes the proof that there are no solutions other than $x+y = 0$.
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Are you sure that this is a solution?
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– Michael Rozenberg
Nov 29 '18 at 7:33
add a comment |
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Assuming continuity in the area interval $ (0 < x < 1 )$ and $ (0 > y > -1 ) $ would create problems as $x$ and $y$ are not always real in these areas.
Nay, union of inside parabola areas of $ y_1 = - x^2 $ and $ y_2 = sqrt{x} $ would violate $ x + y = 0, $ which is only the common chord of intersection of $ y_1,y_2$. So the shown line joining $(0,0)$ to $(1,-1)$ does not exist as real.
E.g., $(frac12, -frac12)$ does not lie on the
common line.
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add a comment |
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This is not a solution, but brute force can be used to remove the radicals. Let $A=y^2-x$ and $B=x^2+y$. We have
$$sqrt{AB}-ysqrt{A}-xsqrt{B}+xy=y$$
Isolating $sqrt{AB}$ and squaring both sides:
$$sqrt{AB}=ysqrt{A}+xsqrt{B}+y(1-x)quad(1)$$
$$AB=y^2A+x^2B+y^2(1-x)^2+2xysqrt{AB}+2y^2(1-x)sqrt{A}+2xy(1-x)sqrt{B}$$
(1) allows us to remove $sqrt{AB}$. We do this and also recall what $A$ and $B$ equal.
$$(y^2-x)(x^2+y)=y^2(y^2-x)+x^2(x^2+y)+y^2(1-x)^2+2xyleft(ysqrt{A}+xsqrt{B}+y(1-x)right)+2y^2(1-x)sqrt{A}+2xy(1-x)sqrt{B}$$
Group $sqrt{A}$ and $sqrt{B}$ terms, then rearrange a bit:
$$(y^2-x)(x^2+y)=y^2(y^2-x)+x^2(x^2+y)+y^2(1-x)^2+2xy^2(1-x)+2y^2sqrt{A}+2xysqrt{B}$$
$$x^2y^2+y^3-x^3-xy=y^4-xy^2+x^4+x^2y+y^2-2xy^2+x^2y^2+2xy^2-2x^2y^2+2yleft(ysqrt{A}+xsqrt{B}right)$$
$$y^3-x^3-xy=y^4-xy^2+x^4+x^2y+y^2-2x^2y^2+2yleft(ysqrt{A}+xsqrt{B}right)$$
(1) allows us to sub out the quantity in parentheses:
$$y^3-x^3-xy=y^4-xy^2+x^4+x^2y+y^2-2x^2y^2+2yleft(y(x-1)+sqrt{AB}right)$$
$$y^3-x^3-xy=y^4-xy^2+x^4+x^2y+y^2-2x^2y^2+2y^2(x-1)+2ysqrt{AB}$$
$$y^3-x^3-xy=y^4+xy^2+x^4+x^2y-y^2-2x^2y^2+2ysqrt{AB}$$
$$y^3-x^3-xy-y^4-xy^2-x^4-x^2y+y^2+2x^2y^2=2ysqrt{AB}$$
Squaring both sides, we've reached a goal of no longer having radicals.
$$(y^3-x^3-xy-y^4-xy^2-x^4-x^2y+y^2+2x^2y^2)^2=4y^2(y^2-x)(x^2+y)$$
I had a CAS expand this, move it all to one side, and then, as expected, $(x+y)$ factors out of it (twice).
$$(x+y)^2 p(x,y)=0$$
where $$p(x,y)=x^6-2 x^5 y+2 x^5-x^4 y^2-2 x^4 y+x^4+4 x^3 y^3+2 x^3 y-x^2 y^4-4 x^2 y^3-4 x^2 y^2+2 x^2 y-2 x y^5+6 x y^4+2 x y^3+y^6-2 y^5-y^4-2 y^3+y^2$$
is a monster. It would be sufficient to show that $p(x,y)$ is never $0$ in the region of the plane where both $sqrt{A}$ and $sqrt{B}$ are defined aside from points along $x+y=0$ (like $(0,0)$). This is a pretty messy polynomial, but at least it's a polynomial.
EDIT: This approach seems to be useless; a CAS plot of the zero set of $p$ has several components, all of which are in the region where $sqrt{A}$ and $sqrt{B}$ are defined. They must be extraneous solutions from the squaring that was done twice.
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add a comment |
$begingroup$
A more generalised approach over my earlier post. This is not intended to be an exhaustive proof but an experimental one. Constructive comments are most welcome.
Let
$$sqrt{y^2-x}-x=Ay^nqquad cdots (1)\
sqrt{x^2+y}-y=frac {y^{1-n}}A qquad cdots (2)\$$
such that the original equation $$left(sqrt{y^2-x}-xright)left(sqrt{x^2+y}-yright)=y$$
is satisfied as required.
From $(1)$,
$$begin{align}
sqrt{y^2-x}&=x+Ay^n\
y^2-x&=x^2++2Axy^n+A^2y^{2n}\
y^{2n}A^2+2xy^nA+(x^2-y^2+x)&=0\
A^2+frac {2x}{y^n}A+frac{(x^2-y^2+x)}{y^{2n}}&=0qquad qquad qquad qquad cdots (3)
end{align}$$
From $(2)$,
$$begin{align}
sqrt{x^2+y}&=y+frac {y^{1-n}}A\
Asqrt{x^2+y}&=Ay+y^{1-n}\
A^2(x^2+y)&=A^2y^2+2Ay^{2-n}+y^{2(1-n)}\
(x^2-y^2+y)A^2-2y^{2-n}A-y^{2(1-n)}&=0\
A^2-frac{2y^{2-n}}{x^2-y^2+y}A-frac{y^{2(1-n)}}{x^2-y^2+y}&=0qquad qquad qquad cdots (4)
end{align}$$
Equating coefficients of $A^1$:
$$begin{align}frac{2x}{y^n}&=-frac{2y^{2-n}}{x^2-y^2+y}\
y^2&=-x(x^2-y^2+y)qquad qquad qquad qquad qquad qquad cdots (5)end{align}$$
Equating coefficients of $A^0$:
$$begin{align}frac{x^2-y^2+x}{y^{2n}}&=-frac{y^{2(1-n)}}{x^2-y^2+y}\
y^2&=-(x^2-y^2+x)(x^2-y^2+y)qquad cdots (6)end{align}$$
(5)=(6):
$$begin{align}x(x^2-y^2+y)&=(x^2-y^2+x)(x^2-y^2+y)\
(x^2-y^2)(x^2+y^2-y)&=0\
(x-y)(x+y)(x^2-y^2+y)&=0\
Rightarrow x-y=&0, x+y=0, x^2-y^2+y=0end{align}$$
Checking by substitution into the original equation shows that only
$$x+y=0$$
is valid.
This graph created on desmos.com might help illustrate the approach:
https://www.desmos.com/calculator/qrlbgbalix
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It's an interesting approach, but I don't buy it. Equations (3) and (4) show us that $A$ is a solution to the two indicated quadratic equations. It does not follow that they must be the same equation!
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– Bungo
Aug 23 '14 at 6:12
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@Bungo Thanks for your comments. $A$ is actually a parameter in this case, and defines a series of curves for each equation. However at the same value of $A$ both equations intersect at a point which satisfies the original equation. The locus of this point is the solution required. Setting both quadratic equations to be the same is essentially assigning the same value of $A$ for both equations.
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– hypergeometric
Aug 23 '14 at 9:10
$begingroup$
I agree that this is valid until you square the equations. But after squaring, each equation has a second root in addition to $A$. How do we know that the second root in (3) is the same as the second root in (4)? Sorry if I'm being dense. To take a simpler example: if $x = 1$ then for any $c$ I can express this as $x-c = 1-c$. Squaring both sides, I get $x^2 - 2xc + c^2 = 1 - 2c + c^2$, or $x^2 - 2xc - (1 - 2c) = 0$. If I carry out this procedure with two different values of $c$, I get two valid equations with $1$ as a root, but the coefficients are not the same.
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– Bungo
Aug 23 '14 at 16:40
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That's true. By equating coefficients we arrive at one particular solution, but there may be others, e.g. where the two quadratics are not the same but have one common root...would it be correct to say that? Any suggestions on other possible approaches?
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– hypergeometric
Aug 23 '14 at 16:58
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Yes, that's what I was getting at. If two quadratic equations have BOTH roots in common then their coefficients are the same, up to a common factor. (Actually that's one more issue with your approach: $x^2 + 2x + 1 = 0$ and $2x^2 + 4x + 2 = 0$ have the same roots but the coefficients are not equal.) Sorry, I don't have any suggestions at the moment - the other answer is pretty thorny and I haven't read through it yet. :-)
$endgroup$
– Bungo
Aug 23 '14 at 17:03
|
show 1 more comment
$begingroup$
We need to prove that $x=y$, where
$$left(sqrt{y^{2}+x}+xright)left(sqrt{x^{2} + y}- yright)=y$$ or
$$left(sqrt{y^{2}+x}+xright)left(sqrt{x^{2} + y}- yright)=left(sqrt{x^{2}+y}+xright)left(sqrt{x^{2} + y}- xright)$$ or
$$left(sqrt{y^{2}+x}+xright)left(sqrt{x^{2} + y}- yright)-left(sqrt{x^{2}+y}+xright)left(sqrt{x^{2} + y}- yright)+$$
$$+left(sqrt{x^{2}+y}+xright)left(sqrt{x^{2} + y}- yright)-left(sqrt{x^{2}+y}+xright)left(sqrt{x^{2} + y}- xright)=0$$ or
$$left(sqrt{y^{2}+x}-sqrt{x^2+y}right)left(sqrt{x^{2} + y}- yright)+left(sqrt{x^{2}+y}+xright)(x-y)=0,$$ which gives $x=y$ or
$$frac{(1-x-y)left(sqrt{x^{2} + y}- yright)}{sqrt{y^{2}+x}+sqrt{x^2+y}}+sqrt{x^{2}+y}+x=0,$$ which is
$$sqrt{x^2+y}-ysqrt{x^2+y}+sqrt{(x^2+y)(y^2+x)}+xsqrt{y^2+x}+x^2+xy+y^2=0.$$
Now, we'll consider four cases.
$xgeq0$, $ygeq 0$.
Since $$-ysqrt{x^2+y}+sqrt{(x^2+y)(y^2+x)}=sqrt{x^2+y}left(sqrt{y^2+x}-yright)geq0,$$ we obtain $x=y=0.$
$xgeq0,$ $yleq0.$
It's obvious that this case gives $x=y=0$ again.
$xleq0$, $ygeq0.$
Since, $$sqrt{(x^2+y)(y^2+x)}+xsqrt{y^2+x}=sqrt{y^2+x}left(sqrt{x^2+y}+xright)geq0,$$ it's enough to prove that
$$x^2+xy+y^2geq(y-1)sqrt{x^2+y},$$ which is obvious for $yleq1.$
But for $ygeq1$ by AM-GM we obtain:
$$(y-1)sqrt{x^2+y}leqfrac{1}{2}((y-1)^2+x^2+y)$$ and it's enough to prove that
$$x^2+xy+y^2geqfrac{1}{2}((y-1)^2+x^2+y)$$ or
$$require{cancel} cancel{(x+y)^2+y^2+y-1geq0.}\
(x+y)^2+y-1geq0.$$
We see that for $ygeq1$ the equality does not occur and in the case $y<1$ the equality occurs for
$$x^2+xy+y^2=(y-1)sqrt{x^2+y}=0,$$ which gives $x=y=0$ again.
$xleq0$ and $yleq0.$
In this case it's enough to prove that
$$xy+xsqrt{y^2+x}geq0$$ or
$$xleft(y+sqrt{y^2+x}right)geq0,$$ which is obvious.
The equality occurs for $x^2+y^2=0$ and we got $x=y=0$ again.
Done!
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Very nice proof (+1)!
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– Andreas
Dec 5 '18 at 15:38
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@Andreas Thank you and thank you for your editing. Do you see that my solution it's an unique right solution in this topic?
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– Michael Rozenberg
Dec 5 '18 at 15:53
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Your solution is the only valid one in here, as far as I see it, which goes without calculus. There may be other approaches with calculus, I didn't check that fully.
$endgroup$
– Andreas
Dec 6 '18 at 7:23
add a comment |
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$begingroup$
Assume that $x<0$ and $y>0$, your statement can be written (even if we change $x$ to $-x$),
If $x,y$ are strictly positive such that $(sqrt{y^2+x}+x)(sqrt{x^2+y}-y)=y$ then $x=y$.
This equality becomes, $$overbrace{dfrac{x+sqrt{x+y^2}}{y+sqrt{y+x^2}}}^{A}=overbrace{dfrac{y}{x^2+y-y^2}}^{B}.$$ Let us start with $x>y$, clearly $B<1$. Moreover $xmapsto(x-sqrt{y+x^2})$ is increasing and $xmapsto sqrt{y+x^2}$ strictly increasing, we conclude that $xmapsto(x+sqrt{x+y^2})-(y+sqrt{y+x^2})$ is strictly increasing and thus $A>0$ when $x>y$. We deduces that $A>1$ and therefore $A$ cannot be equal to $B$.
The case $x<y$ can be treated in the same way.
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
@Downvoters: Would you care to explain?
$endgroup$
– Krokop
Aug 26 '14 at 18:23
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I upvoted you because I think your solution is definitely the right way to go. However, it could use more detail: we want to be more rigorous about showing that $A'(x) > 0$. Also, you should have written $A > 1$ when $x > y$.
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– heropup
Aug 26 '14 at 21:27
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@Krokop I think the downvoter is OP.. All of the answers in this thread have been downvoted.
$endgroup$
– Cameron Williams
Aug 27 '14 at 3:09
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@heropup Thanks for your comment, I edited to add some detail.
$endgroup$
– Krokop
Aug 28 '14 at 12:07
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@CameronWilliams It seems that he wants (always) a full detailed solution..
$endgroup$
– Krokop
Aug 28 '14 at 12:12
|
show 1 more comment
$begingroup$
Assume that $x<0$ and $y>0$, your statement can be written (even if we change $x$ to $-x$),
If $x,y$ are strictly positive such that $(sqrt{y^2+x}+x)(sqrt{x^2+y}-y)=y$ then $x=y$.
This equality becomes, $$overbrace{dfrac{x+sqrt{x+y^2}}{y+sqrt{y+x^2}}}^{A}=overbrace{dfrac{y}{x^2+y-y^2}}^{B}.$$ Let us start with $x>y$, clearly $B<1$. Moreover $xmapsto(x-sqrt{y+x^2})$ is increasing and $xmapsto sqrt{y+x^2}$ strictly increasing, we conclude that $xmapsto(x+sqrt{x+y^2})-(y+sqrt{y+x^2})$ is strictly increasing and thus $A>0$ when $x>y$. We deduces that $A>1$ and therefore $A$ cannot be equal to $B$.
The case $x<y$ can be treated in the same way.
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
@Downvoters: Would you care to explain?
$endgroup$
– Krokop
Aug 26 '14 at 18:23
$begingroup$
I upvoted you because I think your solution is definitely the right way to go. However, it could use more detail: we want to be more rigorous about showing that $A'(x) > 0$. Also, you should have written $A > 1$ when $x > y$.
$endgroup$
– heropup
Aug 26 '14 at 21:27
$begingroup$
@Krokop I think the downvoter is OP.. All of the answers in this thread have been downvoted.
$endgroup$
– Cameron Williams
Aug 27 '14 at 3:09
$begingroup$
@heropup Thanks for your comment, I edited to add some detail.
$endgroup$
– Krokop
Aug 28 '14 at 12:07
$begingroup$
@CameronWilliams It seems that he wants (always) a full detailed solution..
$endgroup$
– Krokop
Aug 28 '14 at 12:12
|
show 1 more comment
$begingroup$
Assume that $x<0$ and $y>0$, your statement can be written (even if we change $x$ to $-x$),
If $x,y$ are strictly positive such that $(sqrt{y^2+x}+x)(sqrt{x^2+y}-y)=y$ then $x=y$.
This equality becomes, $$overbrace{dfrac{x+sqrt{x+y^2}}{y+sqrt{y+x^2}}}^{A}=overbrace{dfrac{y}{x^2+y-y^2}}^{B}.$$ Let us start with $x>y$, clearly $B<1$. Moreover $xmapsto(x-sqrt{y+x^2})$ is increasing and $xmapsto sqrt{y+x^2}$ strictly increasing, we conclude that $xmapsto(x+sqrt{x+y^2})-(y+sqrt{y+x^2})$ is strictly increasing and thus $A>0$ when $x>y$. We deduces that $A>1$ and therefore $A$ cannot be equal to $B$.
The case $x<y$ can be treated in the same way.
$endgroup$
Assume that $x<0$ and $y>0$, your statement can be written (even if we change $x$ to $-x$),
If $x,y$ are strictly positive such that $(sqrt{y^2+x}+x)(sqrt{x^2+y}-y)=y$ then $x=y$.
This equality becomes, $$overbrace{dfrac{x+sqrt{x+y^2}}{y+sqrt{y+x^2}}}^{A}=overbrace{dfrac{y}{x^2+y-y^2}}^{B}.$$ Let us start with $x>y$, clearly $B<1$. Moreover $xmapsto(x-sqrt{y+x^2})$ is increasing and $xmapsto sqrt{y+x^2}$ strictly increasing, we conclude that $xmapsto(x+sqrt{x+y^2})-(y+sqrt{y+x^2})$ is strictly increasing and thus $A>0$ when $x>y$. We deduces that $A>1$ and therefore $A$ cannot be equal to $B$.
The case $x<y$ can be treated in the same way.
edited Aug 28 '14 at 12:06
answered Aug 26 '14 at 18:05
KrokopKrokop
1,014617
1,014617
$begingroup$
@Downvoters: Would you care to explain?
$endgroup$
– Krokop
Aug 26 '14 at 18:23
$begingroup$
I upvoted you because I think your solution is definitely the right way to go. However, it could use more detail: we want to be more rigorous about showing that $A'(x) > 0$. Also, you should have written $A > 1$ when $x > y$.
$endgroup$
– heropup
Aug 26 '14 at 21:27
$begingroup$
@Krokop I think the downvoter is OP.. All of the answers in this thread have been downvoted.
$endgroup$
– Cameron Williams
Aug 27 '14 at 3:09
$begingroup$
@heropup Thanks for your comment, I edited to add some detail.
$endgroup$
– Krokop
Aug 28 '14 at 12:07
$begingroup$
@CameronWilliams It seems that he wants (always) a full detailed solution..
$endgroup$
– Krokop
Aug 28 '14 at 12:12
|
show 1 more comment
$begingroup$
@Downvoters: Would you care to explain?
$endgroup$
– Krokop
Aug 26 '14 at 18:23
$begingroup$
I upvoted you because I think your solution is definitely the right way to go. However, it could use more detail: we want to be more rigorous about showing that $A'(x) > 0$. Also, you should have written $A > 1$ when $x > y$.
$endgroup$
– heropup
Aug 26 '14 at 21:27
$begingroup$
@Krokop I think the downvoter is OP.. All of the answers in this thread have been downvoted.
$endgroup$
– Cameron Williams
Aug 27 '14 at 3:09
$begingroup$
@heropup Thanks for your comment, I edited to add some detail.
$endgroup$
– Krokop
Aug 28 '14 at 12:07
$begingroup$
@CameronWilliams It seems that he wants (always) a full detailed solution..
$endgroup$
– Krokop
Aug 28 '14 at 12:12
$begingroup$
@Downvoters: Would you care to explain?
$endgroup$
– Krokop
Aug 26 '14 at 18:23
$begingroup$
@Downvoters: Would you care to explain?
$endgroup$
– Krokop
Aug 26 '14 at 18:23
$begingroup$
I upvoted you because I think your solution is definitely the right way to go. However, it could use more detail: we want to be more rigorous about showing that $A'(x) > 0$. Also, you should have written $A > 1$ when $x > y$.
$endgroup$
– heropup
Aug 26 '14 at 21:27
$begingroup$
I upvoted you because I think your solution is definitely the right way to go. However, it could use more detail: we want to be more rigorous about showing that $A'(x) > 0$. Also, you should have written $A > 1$ when $x > y$.
$endgroup$
– heropup
Aug 26 '14 at 21:27
$begingroup$
@Krokop I think the downvoter is OP.. All of the answers in this thread have been downvoted.
$endgroup$
– Cameron Williams
Aug 27 '14 at 3:09
$begingroup$
@Krokop I think the downvoter is OP.. All of the answers in this thread have been downvoted.
$endgroup$
– Cameron Williams
Aug 27 '14 at 3:09
$begingroup$
@heropup Thanks for your comment, I edited to add some detail.
$endgroup$
– Krokop
Aug 28 '14 at 12:07
$begingroup$
@heropup Thanks for your comment, I edited to add some detail.
$endgroup$
– Krokop
Aug 28 '14 at 12:07
$begingroup$
@CameronWilliams It seems that he wants (always) a full detailed solution..
$endgroup$
– Krokop
Aug 28 '14 at 12:12
$begingroup$
@CameronWilliams It seems that he wants (always) a full detailed solution..
$endgroup$
– Krokop
Aug 28 '14 at 12:12
|
show 1 more comment
$begingroup$
Multiplication:
$y=x y-x sqrt{x^2+y}-y sqrt{-x+y^2}+sqrt{x^2+y} sqrt{-x+y^2} Rightarrow$
$x sqrt{x^2+y}+y sqrt{-x+y^2}=sqrt{x^2+y} sqrt{-x+y^2}+xy-y$
squaring both sides:
$2 x y sqrt{x^2+y} sqrt{y^2-x}+x^4+x^2 y-x y^2+y^4=
-x^3-x y+y^2-2 x y^2+2 x^2 y^2+y^3+(2 x y-2 y )sqrt{x^2+y} sqrt{-x+y^2} Rightarrow $
simplifying:
$x^4+x^3-2 x^2 y^2+x^2 y+x y^2+x y+y^4-y^3-y^2 = -2 y sqrt{x^2+y} sqrt{y^2-x}$
Squaring again:
$y^8 - 2 y^7 - 4 x^2 y^6 + 2 x y^6 - y^6 + 6 x^2 y^5 + 2 y^5 + 6 x^4 y^4 - 2 x^3 y^4 + 3 x^2 y^4 - 4 x y^4 + y^4 - 6 x^4 y^3 - 4 x^3 y^3 - 2 x y^3 - 4 x^6 y^2 - 2 x^5 y^2 + x^4 y^2 + x^2 y^2 + 2 x^6 y + 4 x^5 y + 2 x^4 y + x^8 + 2 x^7 + x^6=
-4 x^3 y^2+4 x^2 y^4-4 x y^3+4 y^5$
The only thing we have to check is how it factors as $(y+x) (p(x,y))$. Which gives us:
$(x+y)^2(x^6-2 x^5 y+2 x^5-x^4 y^2-2 x^4 y+x^4+4 x^3 y^3+2 x^3 y-x^2 y^4-4 x^2 y^3-4 x^2 y^2+2 x^2 y-2 x y^5+6 x y^4+2 x y^3+y^6-2 y^5-y^4-2 y^3+y^2)=0$
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$begingroup$
Your last inequality is wrong. Try $x=0.8$ and $y=1$.
$endgroup$
– Michael Rozenberg
Nov 29 '18 at 7:07
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Multiplication:
$y=x y-x sqrt{x^2+y}-y sqrt{-x+y^2}+sqrt{x^2+y} sqrt{-x+y^2} Rightarrow$
$x sqrt{x^2+y}+y sqrt{-x+y^2}=sqrt{x^2+y} sqrt{-x+y^2}+xy-y$
squaring both sides:
$2 x y sqrt{x^2+y} sqrt{y^2-x}+x^4+x^2 y-x y^2+y^4=
-x^3-x y+y^2-2 x y^2+2 x^2 y^2+y^3+(2 x y-2 y )sqrt{x^2+y} sqrt{-x+y^2} Rightarrow $
simplifying:
$x^4+x^3-2 x^2 y^2+x^2 y+x y^2+x y+y^4-y^3-y^2 = -2 y sqrt{x^2+y} sqrt{y^2-x}$
Squaring again:
$y^8 - 2 y^7 - 4 x^2 y^6 + 2 x y^6 - y^6 + 6 x^2 y^5 + 2 y^5 + 6 x^4 y^4 - 2 x^3 y^4 + 3 x^2 y^4 - 4 x y^4 + y^4 - 6 x^4 y^3 - 4 x^3 y^3 - 2 x y^3 - 4 x^6 y^2 - 2 x^5 y^2 + x^4 y^2 + x^2 y^2 + 2 x^6 y + 4 x^5 y + 2 x^4 y + x^8 + 2 x^7 + x^6=
-4 x^3 y^2+4 x^2 y^4-4 x y^3+4 y^5$
The only thing we have to check is how it factors as $(y+x) (p(x,y))$. Which gives us:
$(x+y)^2(x^6-2 x^5 y+2 x^5-x^4 y^2-2 x^4 y+x^4+4 x^3 y^3+2 x^3 y-x^2 y^4-4 x^2 y^3-4 x^2 y^2+2 x^2 y-2 x y^5+6 x y^4+2 x y^3+y^6-2 y^5-y^4-2 y^3+y^2)=0$
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
Your last inequality is wrong. Try $x=0.8$ and $y=1$.
$endgroup$
– Michael Rozenberg
Nov 29 '18 at 7:07
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Multiplication:
$y=x y-x sqrt{x^2+y}-y sqrt{-x+y^2}+sqrt{x^2+y} sqrt{-x+y^2} Rightarrow$
$x sqrt{x^2+y}+y sqrt{-x+y^2}=sqrt{x^2+y} sqrt{-x+y^2}+xy-y$
squaring both sides:
$2 x y sqrt{x^2+y} sqrt{y^2-x}+x^4+x^2 y-x y^2+y^4=
-x^3-x y+y^2-2 x y^2+2 x^2 y^2+y^3+(2 x y-2 y )sqrt{x^2+y} sqrt{-x+y^2} Rightarrow $
simplifying:
$x^4+x^3-2 x^2 y^2+x^2 y+x y^2+x y+y^4-y^3-y^2 = -2 y sqrt{x^2+y} sqrt{y^2-x}$
Squaring again:
$y^8 - 2 y^7 - 4 x^2 y^6 + 2 x y^6 - y^6 + 6 x^2 y^5 + 2 y^5 + 6 x^4 y^4 - 2 x^3 y^4 + 3 x^2 y^4 - 4 x y^4 + y^4 - 6 x^4 y^3 - 4 x^3 y^3 - 2 x y^3 - 4 x^6 y^2 - 2 x^5 y^2 + x^4 y^2 + x^2 y^2 + 2 x^6 y + 4 x^5 y + 2 x^4 y + x^8 + 2 x^7 + x^6=
-4 x^3 y^2+4 x^2 y^4-4 x y^3+4 y^5$
The only thing we have to check is how it factors as $(y+x) (p(x,y))$. Which gives us:
$(x+y)^2(x^6-2 x^5 y+2 x^5-x^4 y^2-2 x^4 y+x^4+4 x^3 y^3+2 x^3 y-x^2 y^4-4 x^2 y^3-4 x^2 y^2+2 x^2 y-2 x y^5+6 x y^4+2 x y^3+y^6-2 y^5-y^4-2 y^3+y^2)=0$
$endgroup$
Multiplication:
$y=x y-x sqrt{x^2+y}-y sqrt{-x+y^2}+sqrt{x^2+y} sqrt{-x+y^2} Rightarrow$
$x sqrt{x^2+y}+y sqrt{-x+y^2}=sqrt{x^2+y} sqrt{-x+y^2}+xy-y$
squaring both sides:
$2 x y sqrt{x^2+y} sqrt{y^2-x}+x^4+x^2 y-x y^2+y^4=
-x^3-x y+y^2-2 x y^2+2 x^2 y^2+y^3+(2 x y-2 y )sqrt{x^2+y} sqrt{-x+y^2} Rightarrow $
simplifying:
$x^4+x^3-2 x^2 y^2+x^2 y+x y^2+x y+y^4-y^3-y^2 = -2 y sqrt{x^2+y} sqrt{y^2-x}$
Squaring again:
$y^8 - 2 y^7 - 4 x^2 y^6 + 2 x y^6 - y^6 + 6 x^2 y^5 + 2 y^5 + 6 x^4 y^4 - 2 x^3 y^4 + 3 x^2 y^4 - 4 x y^4 + y^4 - 6 x^4 y^3 - 4 x^3 y^3 - 2 x y^3 - 4 x^6 y^2 - 2 x^5 y^2 + x^4 y^2 + x^2 y^2 + 2 x^6 y + 4 x^5 y + 2 x^4 y + x^8 + 2 x^7 + x^6=
-4 x^3 y^2+4 x^2 y^4-4 x y^3+4 y^5$
The only thing we have to check is how it factors as $(y+x) (p(x,y))$. Which gives us:
$(x+y)^2(x^6-2 x^5 y+2 x^5-x^4 y^2-2 x^4 y+x^4+4 x^3 y^3+2 x^3 y-x^2 y^4-4 x^2 y^3-4 x^2 y^2+2 x^2 y-2 x y^5+6 x y^4+2 x y^3+y^6-2 y^5-y^4-2 y^3+y^2)=0$
edited Aug 27 '14 at 2:56
answered Aug 26 '14 at 21:10
BuddhaBuddha
566714
566714
$begingroup$
Your last inequality is wrong. Try $x=0.8$ and $y=1$.
$endgroup$
– Michael Rozenberg
Nov 29 '18 at 7:07
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Your last inequality is wrong. Try $x=0.8$ and $y=1$.
$endgroup$
– Michael Rozenberg
Nov 29 '18 at 7:07
$begingroup$
Your last inequality is wrong. Try $x=0.8$ and $y=1$.
$endgroup$
– Michael Rozenberg
Nov 29 '18 at 7:07
$begingroup$
Your last inequality is wrong. Try $x=0.8$ and $y=1$.
$endgroup$
– Michael Rozenberg
Nov 29 '18 at 7:07
add a comment |
$begingroup$
In the following proof we divide the $(x,y)$ plane into regions (see diagram) and show that each region can contain no solutions except on the line $x + y = 0$.
Let
$$
F(x,y) = U(x,y)V(x,y) – y
$$
where
$$
U(x,y) = sqrt{y^2 – x} ,, – x
\V(x,y) = sqrt{x^2 + y} ,, – y
$$
Then solutions satisfy
$$
F(x,y) = 0
$$
Substituting $y=-x$ shows that $x+y=0$ is a solution for all x.
U is nonreal where $x>y^2$ (regions A and C in the diagram, bounded by red lines) and V is nonreal in the region $y<-x^2$ (regions B and C, also bounded by red lines). In these regions F is nonreal except possibly in region C, where U and V are both unreal. But there the condition for F to be real reduces to $x+y=0$, a subset of the known solution.
The following statements and deductions relate to the other regions of the $(x,y)$ plane, where $U$ and $V$ are real.
$U<0 Leftrightarrow x>tfrac{1}{2}(-1 + sqrt{1 + 4y^2})$ (regions I, J).
$V<0 Leftrightarrow y>tfrac{1}{2}(1 + sqrt{1 + 4x^2})$ (all regions except F, G).
$U_{x} < 0$ (regions D-K)
$V_{x} < 0 Leftrightarrow x < 0$ (regions D, E, F)
$U_{xx} < 0$ (regions D-K)
$V_{xx} < 0 Leftrightarrow y < 0$ (regions D, J, K)
where a subscript x denotes partial differentiation with respect to x.
On the diagram the lines on which $U=0$ and $V=0$ are coloured green and blue, respectively. It is easily shown that $F$ is nonzero on all the coloured lines (with sign as indicated) except at $(0,0)$ and $(1,-1)$. These lines delimit, but are excluded from, the regions A-K.
From the results above we can make the following deductions.
In region D:
$$
U>0, V>0, U_{x}<0, V_{x}<0
\F_{x} = UV_{x} + VU_{x} < 0
$$
This region is bounded on the right by the line $y<-x^2$, on which $F>0$. So $F>0$ throughout region D and it can contain no solutions.
In region E:
$$
U>0, V>0, U_{x}<0, V_{x}<0
\F_{x} < 0
$$
so here there can be no solutions other than those known to exist on the line $y=-x$.
In region F:
$$
U>0, V<0, U_{x}<0, V_{x}<0, U_{xx}<0, V_{xx}>0
\F_{xx} = UV_{xx} + VU_{xx} + 2U_{x}V_{x} > 0
$$
This region is bounded on the left by the line $V=0$ and on the right by the line $x = 0$, and on both these lines $F<0$. So the positive second derivative $F_{xx}$ means there can be no solutions $F=0$ in this region.
In a similar way, solutions can be ruled out for the following regions:
In region G, bounded on right by the line $V=0$ on which $F<0$:
$$
U>0, V<0, U_{x}<0, V_{x}>0
\F_{x}>0
$$
In region I, bounded on left by the line $U=0$ on which $F<0$:
$$
U<0, V>0, U_{x}<0, V_{x}>0
\F_{x} < 0
$$
In region J, containing a segment of the known solution line $x+y=0$ on which $F=0$:
$$
U<0, V>0, U_{x}<0, V_{x}>0
\F_{x} < 0
$$
In region K, bounded on the left and right by lines on which $F>0$:
$$
U>0, V>0, U_{x}<0, V_{x}>0, U_{xx}<0, V_{xx}<0
\F_{xx} = UV_{xx} + VU_{xx} + 2U_{x}V_{x} < 0
$$
Finally, in region H:
$$
U>0, V>0, U_{x}<0, V_{x}>0
$$
and we note that $U_{x}<0$ in region G also, so for a given $y$,
$U<U_{max}$, where $U_{max} = U(0,y) = y$
For the same value of y, $V<V_{max}$, where $V_{max} = V(X,y)$, and X is the value of x on the right-hand boundary of the region. On this boundary, $y=sqrt{X^2+X}$, so
$$
V_{max} = V(X,y) = sqrt{X^2+y} , – y
< sqrt{X^2+X+y} , - y = sqrt{y^2 + y} ,, – y < tfrac{1}{2}.
$$
Therefore
$$
F = UV – y < U_{max} V_{max} – y < y tfrac{1}{2} – y = , –tfrac{1}{2} y < 0
$$
which completes the proof that there are no solutions other than $x+y = 0$.
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
Are you sure that this is a solution?
$endgroup$
– Michael Rozenberg
Nov 29 '18 at 7:33
add a comment |
$begingroup$
In the following proof we divide the $(x,y)$ plane into regions (see diagram) and show that each region can contain no solutions except on the line $x + y = 0$.
Let
$$
F(x,y) = U(x,y)V(x,y) – y
$$
where
$$
U(x,y) = sqrt{y^2 – x} ,, – x
\V(x,y) = sqrt{x^2 + y} ,, – y
$$
Then solutions satisfy
$$
F(x,y) = 0
$$
Substituting $y=-x$ shows that $x+y=0$ is a solution for all x.
U is nonreal where $x>y^2$ (regions A and C in the diagram, bounded by red lines) and V is nonreal in the region $y<-x^2$ (regions B and C, also bounded by red lines). In these regions F is nonreal except possibly in region C, where U and V are both unreal. But there the condition for F to be real reduces to $x+y=0$, a subset of the known solution.
The following statements and deductions relate to the other regions of the $(x,y)$ plane, where $U$ and $V$ are real.
$U<0 Leftrightarrow x>tfrac{1}{2}(-1 + sqrt{1 + 4y^2})$ (regions I, J).
$V<0 Leftrightarrow y>tfrac{1}{2}(1 + sqrt{1 + 4x^2})$ (all regions except F, G).
$U_{x} < 0$ (regions D-K)
$V_{x} < 0 Leftrightarrow x < 0$ (regions D, E, F)
$U_{xx} < 0$ (regions D-K)
$V_{xx} < 0 Leftrightarrow y < 0$ (regions D, J, K)
where a subscript x denotes partial differentiation with respect to x.
On the diagram the lines on which $U=0$ and $V=0$ are coloured green and blue, respectively. It is easily shown that $F$ is nonzero on all the coloured lines (with sign as indicated) except at $(0,0)$ and $(1,-1)$. These lines delimit, but are excluded from, the regions A-K.
From the results above we can make the following deductions.
In region D:
$$
U>0, V>0, U_{x}<0, V_{x}<0
\F_{x} = UV_{x} + VU_{x} < 0
$$
This region is bounded on the right by the line $y<-x^2$, on which $F>0$. So $F>0$ throughout region D and it can contain no solutions.
In region E:
$$
U>0, V>0, U_{x}<0, V_{x}<0
\F_{x} < 0
$$
so here there can be no solutions other than those known to exist on the line $y=-x$.
In region F:
$$
U>0, V<0, U_{x}<0, V_{x}<0, U_{xx}<0, V_{xx}>0
\F_{xx} = UV_{xx} + VU_{xx} + 2U_{x}V_{x} > 0
$$
This region is bounded on the left by the line $V=0$ and on the right by the line $x = 0$, and on both these lines $F<0$. So the positive second derivative $F_{xx}$ means there can be no solutions $F=0$ in this region.
In a similar way, solutions can be ruled out for the following regions:
In region G, bounded on right by the line $V=0$ on which $F<0$:
$$
U>0, V<0, U_{x}<0, V_{x}>0
\F_{x}>0
$$
In region I, bounded on left by the line $U=0$ on which $F<0$:
$$
U<0, V>0, U_{x}<0, V_{x}>0
\F_{x} < 0
$$
In region J, containing a segment of the known solution line $x+y=0$ on which $F=0$:
$$
U<0, V>0, U_{x}<0, V_{x}>0
\F_{x} < 0
$$
In region K, bounded on the left and right by lines on which $F>0$:
$$
U>0, V>0, U_{x}<0, V_{x}>0, U_{xx}<0, V_{xx}<0
\F_{xx} = UV_{xx} + VU_{xx} + 2U_{x}V_{x} < 0
$$
Finally, in region H:
$$
U>0, V>0, U_{x}<0, V_{x}>0
$$
and we note that $U_{x}<0$ in region G also, so for a given $y$,
$U<U_{max}$, where $U_{max} = U(0,y) = y$
For the same value of y, $V<V_{max}$, where $V_{max} = V(X,y)$, and X is the value of x on the right-hand boundary of the region. On this boundary, $y=sqrt{X^2+X}$, so
$$
V_{max} = V(X,y) = sqrt{X^2+y} , – y
< sqrt{X^2+X+y} , - y = sqrt{y^2 + y} ,, – y < tfrac{1}{2}.
$$
Therefore
$$
F = UV – y < U_{max} V_{max} – y < y tfrac{1}{2} – y = , –tfrac{1}{2} y < 0
$$
which completes the proof that there are no solutions other than $x+y = 0$.
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
Are you sure that this is a solution?
$endgroup$
– Michael Rozenberg
Nov 29 '18 at 7:33
add a comment |
$begingroup$
In the following proof we divide the $(x,y)$ plane into regions (see diagram) and show that each region can contain no solutions except on the line $x + y = 0$.
Let
$$
F(x,y) = U(x,y)V(x,y) – y
$$
where
$$
U(x,y) = sqrt{y^2 – x} ,, – x
\V(x,y) = sqrt{x^2 + y} ,, – y
$$
Then solutions satisfy
$$
F(x,y) = 0
$$
Substituting $y=-x$ shows that $x+y=0$ is a solution for all x.
U is nonreal where $x>y^2$ (regions A and C in the diagram, bounded by red lines) and V is nonreal in the region $y<-x^2$ (regions B and C, also bounded by red lines). In these regions F is nonreal except possibly in region C, where U and V are both unreal. But there the condition for F to be real reduces to $x+y=0$, a subset of the known solution.
The following statements and deductions relate to the other regions of the $(x,y)$ plane, where $U$ and $V$ are real.
$U<0 Leftrightarrow x>tfrac{1}{2}(-1 + sqrt{1 + 4y^2})$ (regions I, J).
$V<0 Leftrightarrow y>tfrac{1}{2}(1 + sqrt{1 + 4x^2})$ (all regions except F, G).
$U_{x} < 0$ (regions D-K)
$V_{x} < 0 Leftrightarrow x < 0$ (regions D, E, F)
$U_{xx} < 0$ (regions D-K)
$V_{xx} < 0 Leftrightarrow y < 0$ (regions D, J, K)
where a subscript x denotes partial differentiation with respect to x.
On the diagram the lines on which $U=0$ and $V=0$ are coloured green and blue, respectively. It is easily shown that $F$ is nonzero on all the coloured lines (with sign as indicated) except at $(0,0)$ and $(1,-1)$. These lines delimit, but are excluded from, the regions A-K.
From the results above we can make the following deductions.
In region D:
$$
U>0, V>0, U_{x}<0, V_{x}<0
\F_{x} = UV_{x} + VU_{x} < 0
$$
This region is bounded on the right by the line $y<-x^2$, on which $F>0$. So $F>0$ throughout region D and it can contain no solutions.
In region E:
$$
U>0, V>0, U_{x}<0, V_{x}<0
\F_{x} < 0
$$
so here there can be no solutions other than those known to exist on the line $y=-x$.
In region F:
$$
U>0, V<0, U_{x}<0, V_{x}<0, U_{xx}<0, V_{xx}>0
\F_{xx} = UV_{xx} + VU_{xx} + 2U_{x}V_{x} > 0
$$
This region is bounded on the left by the line $V=0$ and on the right by the line $x = 0$, and on both these lines $F<0$. So the positive second derivative $F_{xx}$ means there can be no solutions $F=0$ in this region.
In a similar way, solutions can be ruled out for the following regions:
In region G, bounded on right by the line $V=0$ on which $F<0$:
$$
U>0, V<0, U_{x}<0, V_{x}>0
\F_{x}>0
$$
In region I, bounded on left by the line $U=0$ on which $F<0$:
$$
U<0, V>0, U_{x}<0, V_{x}>0
\F_{x} < 0
$$
In region J, containing a segment of the known solution line $x+y=0$ on which $F=0$:
$$
U<0, V>0, U_{x}<0, V_{x}>0
\F_{x} < 0
$$
In region K, bounded on the left and right by lines on which $F>0$:
$$
U>0, V>0, U_{x}<0, V_{x}>0, U_{xx}<0, V_{xx}<0
\F_{xx} = UV_{xx} + VU_{xx} + 2U_{x}V_{x} < 0
$$
Finally, in region H:
$$
U>0, V>0, U_{x}<0, V_{x}>0
$$
and we note that $U_{x}<0$ in region G also, so for a given $y$,
$U<U_{max}$, where $U_{max} = U(0,y) = y$
For the same value of y, $V<V_{max}$, where $V_{max} = V(X,y)$, and X is the value of x on the right-hand boundary of the region. On this boundary, $y=sqrt{X^2+X}$, so
$$
V_{max} = V(X,y) = sqrt{X^2+y} , – y
< sqrt{X^2+X+y} , - y = sqrt{y^2 + y} ,, – y < tfrac{1}{2}.
$$
Therefore
$$
F = UV – y < U_{max} V_{max} – y < y tfrac{1}{2} – y = , –tfrac{1}{2} y < 0
$$
which completes the proof that there are no solutions other than $x+y = 0$.
$endgroup$
In the following proof we divide the $(x,y)$ plane into regions (see diagram) and show that each region can contain no solutions except on the line $x + y = 0$.
Let
$$
F(x,y) = U(x,y)V(x,y) – y
$$
where
$$
U(x,y) = sqrt{y^2 – x} ,, – x
\V(x,y) = sqrt{x^2 + y} ,, – y
$$
Then solutions satisfy
$$
F(x,y) = 0
$$
Substituting $y=-x$ shows that $x+y=0$ is a solution for all x.
U is nonreal where $x>y^2$ (regions A and C in the diagram, bounded by red lines) and V is nonreal in the region $y<-x^2$ (regions B and C, also bounded by red lines). In these regions F is nonreal except possibly in region C, where U and V are both unreal. But there the condition for F to be real reduces to $x+y=0$, a subset of the known solution.
The following statements and deductions relate to the other regions of the $(x,y)$ plane, where $U$ and $V$ are real.
$U<0 Leftrightarrow x>tfrac{1}{2}(-1 + sqrt{1 + 4y^2})$ (regions I, J).
$V<0 Leftrightarrow y>tfrac{1}{2}(1 + sqrt{1 + 4x^2})$ (all regions except F, G).
$U_{x} < 0$ (regions D-K)
$V_{x} < 0 Leftrightarrow x < 0$ (regions D, E, F)
$U_{xx} < 0$ (regions D-K)
$V_{xx} < 0 Leftrightarrow y < 0$ (regions D, J, K)
where a subscript x denotes partial differentiation with respect to x.
On the diagram the lines on which $U=0$ and $V=0$ are coloured green and blue, respectively. It is easily shown that $F$ is nonzero on all the coloured lines (with sign as indicated) except at $(0,0)$ and $(1,-1)$. These lines delimit, but are excluded from, the regions A-K.
From the results above we can make the following deductions.
In region D:
$$
U>0, V>0, U_{x}<0, V_{x}<0
\F_{x} = UV_{x} + VU_{x} < 0
$$
This region is bounded on the right by the line $y<-x^2$, on which $F>0$. So $F>0$ throughout region D and it can contain no solutions.
In region E:
$$
U>0, V>0, U_{x}<0, V_{x}<0
\F_{x} < 0
$$
so here there can be no solutions other than those known to exist on the line $y=-x$.
In region F:
$$
U>0, V<0, U_{x}<0, V_{x}<0, U_{xx}<0, V_{xx}>0
\F_{xx} = UV_{xx} + VU_{xx} + 2U_{x}V_{x} > 0
$$
This region is bounded on the left by the line $V=0$ and on the right by the line $x = 0$, and on both these lines $F<0$. So the positive second derivative $F_{xx}$ means there can be no solutions $F=0$ in this region.
In a similar way, solutions can be ruled out for the following regions:
In region G, bounded on right by the line $V=0$ on which $F<0$:
$$
U>0, V<0, U_{x}<0, V_{x}>0
\F_{x}>0
$$
In region I, bounded on left by the line $U=0$ on which $F<0$:
$$
U<0, V>0, U_{x}<0, V_{x}>0
\F_{x} < 0
$$
In region J, containing a segment of the known solution line $x+y=0$ on which $F=0$:
$$
U<0, V>0, U_{x}<0, V_{x}>0
\F_{x} < 0
$$
In region K, bounded on the left and right by lines on which $F>0$:
$$
U>0, V>0, U_{x}<0, V_{x}>0, U_{xx}<0, V_{xx}<0
\F_{xx} = UV_{xx} + VU_{xx} + 2U_{x}V_{x} < 0
$$
Finally, in region H:
$$
U>0, V>0, U_{x}<0, V_{x}>0
$$
and we note that $U_{x}<0$ in region G also, so for a given $y$,
$U<U_{max}$, where $U_{max} = U(0,y) = y$
For the same value of y, $V<V_{max}$, where $V_{max} = V(X,y)$, and X is the value of x on the right-hand boundary of the region. On this boundary, $y=sqrt{X^2+X}$, so
$$
V_{max} = V(X,y) = sqrt{X^2+y} , – y
< sqrt{X^2+X+y} , - y = sqrt{y^2 + y} ,, – y < tfrac{1}{2}.
$$
Therefore
$$
F = UV – y < U_{max} V_{max} – y < y tfrac{1}{2} – y = , –tfrac{1}{2} y < 0
$$
which completes the proof that there are no solutions other than $x+y = 0$.
edited Aug 31 '14 at 10:06
answered Aug 22 '14 at 22:06
MartinGMartinG
853511
853511
$begingroup$
Are you sure that this is a solution?
$endgroup$
– Michael Rozenberg
Nov 29 '18 at 7:33
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Are you sure that this is a solution?
$endgroup$
– Michael Rozenberg
Nov 29 '18 at 7:33
$begingroup$
Are you sure that this is a solution?
$endgroup$
– Michael Rozenberg
Nov 29 '18 at 7:33
$begingroup$
Are you sure that this is a solution?
$endgroup$
– Michael Rozenberg
Nov 29 '18 at 7:33
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Assuming continuity in the area interval $ (0 < x < 1 )$ and $ (0 > y > -1 ) $ would create problems as $x$ and $y$ are not always real in these areas.
Nay, union of inside parabola areas of $ y_1 = - x^2 $ and $ y_2 = sqrt{x} $ would violate $ x + y = 0, $ which is only the common chord of intersection of $ y_1,y_2$. So the shown line joining $(0,0)$ to $(1,-1)$ does not exist as real.
E.g., $(frac12, -frac12)$ does not lie on the
common line.
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Assuming continuity in the area interval $ (0 < x < 1 )$ and $ (0 > y > -1 ) $ would create problems as $x$ and $y$ are not always real in these areas.
Nay, union of inside parabola areas of $ y_1 = - x^2 $ and $ y_2 = sqrt{x} $ would violate $ x + y = 0, $ which is only the common chord of intersection of $ y_1,y_2$. So the shown line joining $(0,0)$ to $(1,-1)$ does not exist as real.
E.g., $(frac12, -frac12)$ does not lie on the
common line.
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Assuming continuity in the area interval $ (0 < x < 1 )$ and $ (0 > y > -1 ) $ would create problems as $x$ and $y$ are not always real in these areas.
Nay, union of inside parabola areas of $ y_1 = - x^2 $ and $ y_2 = sqrt{x} $ would violate $ x + y = 0, $ which is only the common chord of intersection of $ y_1,y_2$. So the shown line joining $(0,0)$ to $(1,-1)$ does not exist as real.
E.g., $(frac12, -frac12)$ does not lie on the
common line.
$endgroup$
Assuming continuity in the area interval $ (0 < x < 1 )$ and $ (0 > y > -1 ) $ would create problems as $x$ and $y$ are not always real in these areas.
Nay, union of inside parabola areas of $ y_1 = - x^2 $ and $ y_2 = sqrt{x} $ would violate $ x + y = 0, $ which is only the common chord of intersection of $ y_1,y_2$. So the shown line joining $(0,0)$ to $(1,-1)$ does not exist as real.
E.g., $(frac12, -frac12)$ does not lie on the
common line.
edited Sep 7 '17 at 15:41
answered Aug 26 '14 at 15:28
NarasimhamNarasimham
20.7k52158
20.7k52158
add a comment |
add a comment |
$begingroup$
This is not a solution, but brute force can be used to remove the radicals. Let $A=y^2-x$ and $B=x^2+y$. We have
$$sqrt{AB}-ysqrt{A}-xsqrt{B}+xy=y$$
Isolating $sqrt{AB}$ and squaring both sides:
$$sqrt{AB}=ysqrt{A}+xsqrt{B}+y(1-x)quad(1)$$
$$AB=y^2A+x^2B+y^2(1-x)^2+2xysqrt{AB}+2y^2(1-x)sqrt{A}+2xy(1-x)sqrt{B}$$
(1) allows us to remove $sqrt{AB}$. We do this and also recall what $A$ and $B$ equal.
$$(y^2-x)(x^2+y)=y^2(y^2-x)+x^2(x^2+y)+y^2(1-x)^2+2xyleft(ysqrt{A}+xsqrt{B}+y(1-x)right)+2y^2(1-x)sqrt{A}+2xy(1-x)sqrt{B}$$
Group $sqrt{A}$ and $sqrt{B}$ terms, then rearrange a bit:
$$(y^2-x)(x^2+y)=y^2(y^2-x)+x^2(x^2+y)+y^2(1-x)^2+2xy^2(1-x)+2y^2sqrt{A}+2xysqrt{B}$$
$$x^2y^2+y^3-x^3-xy=y^4-xy^2+x^4+x^2y+y^2-2xy^2+x^2y^2+2xy^2-2x^2y^2+2yleft(ysqrt{A}+xsqrt{B}right)$$
$$y^3-x^3-xy=y^4-xy^2+x^4+x^2y+y^2-2x^2y^2+2yleft(ysqrt{A}+xsqrt{B}right)$$
(1) allows us to sub out the quantity in parentheses:
$$y^3-x^3-xy=y^4-xy^2+x^4+x^2y+y^2-2x^2y^2+2yleft(y(x-1)+sqrt{AB}right)$$
$$y^3-x^3-xy=y^4-xy^2+x^4+x^2y+y^2-2x^2y^2+2y^2(x-1)+2ysqrt{AB}$$
$$y^3-x^3-xy=y^4+xy^2+x^4+x^2y-y^2-2x^2y^2+2ysqrt{AB}$$
$$y^3-x^3-xy-y^4-xy^2-x^4-x^2y+y^2+2x^2y^2=2ysqrt{AB}$$
Squaring both sides, we've reached a goal of no longer having radicals.
$$(y^3-x^3-xy-y^4-xy^2-x^4-x^2y+y^2+2x^2y^2)^2=4y^2(y^2-x)(x^2+y)$$
I had a CAS expand this, move it all to one side, and then, as expected, $(x+y)$ factors out of it (twice).
$$(x+y)^2 p(x,y)=0$$
where $$p(x,y)=x^6-2 x^5 y+2 x^5-x^4 y^2-2 x^4 y+x^4+4 x^3 y^3+2 x^3 y-x^2 y^4-4 x^2 y^3-4 x^2 y^2+2 x^2 y-2 x y^5+6 x y^4+2 x y^3+y^6-2 y^5-y^4-2 y^3+y^2$$
is a monster. It would be sufficient to show that $p(x,y)$ is never $0$ in the region of the plane where both $sqrt{A}$ and $sqrt{B}$ are defined aside from points along $x+y=0$ (like $(0,0)$). This is a pretty messy polynomial, but at least it's a polynomial.
EDIT: This approach seems to be useless; a CAS plot of the zero set of $p$ has several components, all of which are in the region where $sqrt{A}$ and $sqrt{B}$ are defined. They must be extraneous solutions from the squaring that was done twice.
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
This is not a solution, but brute force can be used to remove the radicals. Let $A=y^2-x$ and $B=x^2+y$. We have
$$sqrt{AB}-ysqrt{A}-xsqrt{B}+xy=y$$
Isolating $sqrt{AB}$ and squaring both sides:
$$sqrt{AB}=ysqrt{A}+xsqrt{B}+y(1-x)quad(1)$$
$$AB=y^2A+x^2B+y^2(1-x)^2+2xysqrt{AB}+2y^2(1-x)sqrt{A}+2xy(1-x)sqrt{B}$$
(1) allows us to remove $sqrt{AB}$. We do this and also recall what $A$ and $B$ equal.
$$(y^2-x)(x^2+y)=y^2(y^2-x)+x^2(x^2+y)+y^2(1-x)^2+2xyleft(ysqrt{A}+xsqrt{B}+y(1-x)right)+2y^2(1-x)sqrt{A}+2xy(1-x)sqrt{B}$$
Group $sqrt{A}$ and $sqrt{B}$ terms, then rearrange a bit:
$$(y^2-x)(x^2+y)=y^2(y^2-x)+x^2(x^2+y)+y^2(1-x)^2+2xy^2(1-x)+2y^2sqrt{A}+2xysqrt{B}$$
$$x^2y^2+y^3-x^3-xy=y^4-xy^2+x^4+x^2y+y^2-2xy^2+x^2y^2+2xy^2-2x^2y^2+2yleft(ysqrt{A}+xsqrt{B}right)$$
$$y^3-x^3-xy=y^4-xy^2+x^4+x^2y+y^2-2x^2y^2+2yleft(ysqrt{A}+xsqrt{B}right)$$
(1) allows us to sub out the quantity in parentheses:
$$y^3-x^3-xy=y^4-xy^2+x^4+x^2y+y^2-2x^2y^2+2yleft(y(x-1)+sqrt{AB}right)$$
$$y^3-x^3-xy=y^4-xy^2+x^4+x^2y+y^2-2x^2y^2+2y^2(x-1)+2ysqrt{AB}$$
$$y^3-x^3-xy=y^4+xy^2+x^4+x^2y-y^2-2x^2y^2+2ysqrt{AB}$$
$$y^3-x^3-xy-y^4-xy^2-x^4-x^2y+y^2+2x^2y^2=2ysqrt{AB}$$
Squaring both sides, we've reached a goal of no longer having radicals.
$$(y^3-x^3-xy-y^4-xy^2-x^4-x^2y+y^2+2x^2y^2)^2=4y^2(y^2-x)(x^2+y)$$
I had a CAS expand this, move it all to one side, and then, as expected, $(x+y)$ factors out of it (twice).
$$(x+y)^2 p(x,y)=0$$
where $$p(x,y)=x^6-2 x^5 y+2 x^5-x^4 y^2-2 x^4 y+x^4+4 x^3 y^3+2 x^3 y-x^2 y^4-4 x^2 y^3-4 x^2 y^2+2 x^2 y-2 x y^5+6 x y^4+2 x y^3+y^6-2 y^5-y^4-2 y^3+y^2$$
is a monster. It would be sufficient to show that $p(x,y)$ is never $0$ in the region of the plane where both $sqrt{A}$ and $sqrt{B}$ are defined aside from points along $x+y=0$ (like $(0,0)$). This is a pretty messy polynomial, but at least it's a polynomial.
EDIT: This approach seems to be useless; a CAS plot of the zero set of $p$ has several components, all of which are in the region where $sqrt{A}$ and $sqrt{B}$ are defined. They must be extraneous solutions from the squaring that was done twice.
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
This is not a solution, but brute force can be used to remove the radicals. Let $A=y^2-x$ and $B=x^2+y$. We have
$$sqrt{AB}-ysqrt{A}-xsqrt{B}+xy=y$$
Isolating $sqrt{AB}$ and squaring both sides:
$$sqrt{AB}=ysqrt{A}+xsqrt{B}+y(1-x)quad(1)$$
$$AB=y^2A+x^2B+y^2(1-x)^2+2xysqrt{AB}+2y^2(1-x)sqrt{A}+2xy(1-x)sqrt{B}$$
(1) allows us to remove $sqrt{AB}$. We do this and also recall what $A$ and $B$ equal.
$$(y^2-x)(x^2+y)=y^2(y^2-x)+x^2(x^2+y)+y^2(1-x)^2+2xyleft(ysqrt{A}+xsqrt{B}+y(1-x)right)+2y^2(1-x)sqrt{A}+2xy(1-x)sqrt{B}$$
Group $sqrt{A}$ and $sqrt{B}$ terms, then rearrange a bit:
$$(y^2-x)(x^2+y)=y^2(y^2-x)+x^2(x^2+y)+y^2(1-x)^2+2xy^2(1-x)+2y^2sqrt{A}+2xysqrt{B}$$
$$x^2y^2+y^3-x^3-xy=y^4-xy^2+x^4+x^2y+y^2-2xy^2+x^2y^2+2xy^2-2x^2y^2+2yleft(ysqrt{A}+xsqrt{B}right)$$
$$y^3-x^3-xy=y^4-xy^2+x^4+x^2y+y^2-2x^2y^2+2yleft(ysqrt{A}+xsqrt{B}right)$$
(1) allows us to sub out the quantity in parentheses:
$$y^3-x^3-xy=y^4-xy^2+x^4+x^2y+y^2-2x^2y^2+2yleft(y(x-1)+sqrt{AB}right)$$
$$y^3-x^3-xy=y^4-xy^2+x^4+x^2y+y^2-2x^2y^2+2y^2(x-1)+2ysqrt{AB}$$
$$y^3-x^3-xy=y^4+xy^2+x^4+x^2y-y^2-2x^2y^2+2ysqrt{AB}$$
$$y^3-x^3-xy-y^4-xy^2-x^4-x^2y+y^2+2x^2y^2=2ysqrt{AB}$$
Squaring both sides, we've reached a goal of no longer having radicals.
$$(y^3-x^3-xy-y^4-xy^2-x^4-x^2y+y^2+2x^2y^2)^2=4y^2(y^2-x)(x^2+y)$$
I had a CAS expand this, move it all to one side, and then, as expected, $(x+y)$ factors out of it (twice).
$$(x+y)^2 p(x,y)=0$$
where $$p(x,y)=x^6-2 x^5 y+2 x^5-x^4 y^2-2 x^4 y+x^4+4 x^3 y^3+2 x^3 y-x^2 y^4-4 x^2 y^3-4 x^2 y^2+2 x^2 y-2 x y^5+6 x y^4+2 x y^3+y^6-2 y^5-y^4-2 y^3+y^2$$
is a monster. It would be sufficient to show that $p(x,y)$ is never $0$ in the region of the plane where both $sqrt{A}$ and $sqrt{B}$ are defined aside from points along $x+y=0$ (like $(0,0)$). This is a pretty messy polynomial, but at least it's a polynomial.
EDIT: This approach seems to be useless; a CAS plot of the zero set of $p$ has several components, all of which are in the region where $sqrt{A}$ and $sqrt{B}$ are defined. They must be extraneous solutions from the squaring that was done twice.
$endgroup$
This is not a solution, but brute force can be used to remove the radicals. Let $A=y^2-x$ and $B=x^2+y$. We have
$$sqrt{AB}-ysqrt{A}-xsqrt{B}+xy=y$$
Isolating $sqrt{AB}$ and squaring both sides:
$$sqrt{AB}=ysqrt{A}+xsqrt{B}+y(1-x)quad(1)$$
$$AB=y^2A+x^2B+y^2(1-x)^2+2xysqrt{AB}+2y^2(1-x)sqrt{A}+2xy(1-x)sqrt{B}$$
(1) allows us to remove $sqrt{AB}$. We do this and also recall what $A$ and $B$ equal.
$$(y^2-x)(x^2+y)=y^2(y^2-x)+x^2(x^2+y)+y^2(1-x)^2+2xyleft(ysqrt{A}+xsqrt{B}+y(1-x)right)+2y^2(1-x)sqrt{A}+2xy(1-x)sqrt{B}$$
Group $sqrt{A}$ and $sqrt{B}$ terms, then rearrange a bit:
$$(y^2-x)(x^2+y)=y^2(y^2-x)+x^2(x^2+y)+y^2(1-x)^2+2xy^2(1-x)+2y^2sqrt{A}+2xysqrt{B}$$
$$x^2y^2+y^3-x^3-xy=y^4-xy^2+x^4+x^2y+y^2-2xy^2+x^2y^2+2xy^2-2x^2y^2+2yleft(ysqrt{A}+xsqrt{B}right)$$
$$y^3-x^3-xy=y^4-xy^2+x^4+x^2y+y^2-2x^2y^2+2yleft(ysqrt{A}+xsqrt{B}right)$$
(1) allows us to sub out the quantity in parentheses:
$$y^3-x^3-xy=y^4-xy^2+x^4+x^2y+y^2-2x^2y^2+2yleft(y(x-1)+sqrt{AB}right)$$
$$y^3-x^3-xy=y^4-xy^2+x^4+x^2y+y^2-2x^2y^2+2y^2(x-1)+2ysqrt{AB}$$
$$y^3-x^3-xy=y^4+xy^2+x^4+x^2y-y^2-2x^2y^2+2ysqrt{AB}$$
$$y^3-x^3-xy-y^4-xy^2-x^4-x^2y+y^2+2x^2y^2=2ysqrt{AB}$$
Squaring both sides, we've reached a goal of no longer having radicals.
$$(y^3-x^3-xy-y^4-xy^2-x^4-x^2y+y^2+2x^2y^2)^2=4y^2(y^2-x)(x^2+y)$$
I had a CAS expand this, move it all to one side, and then, as expected, $(x+y)$ factors out of it (twice).
$$(x+y)^2 p(x,y)=0$$
where $$p(x,y)=x^6-2 x^5 y+2 x^5-x^4 y^2-2 x^4 y+x^4+4 x^3 y^3+2 x^3 y-x^2 y^4-4 x^2 y^3-4 x^2 y^2+2 x^2 y-2 x y^5+6 x y^4+2 x y^3+y^6-2 y^5-y^4-2 y^3+y^2$$
is a monster. It would be sufficient to show that $p(x,y)$ is never $0$ in the region of the plane where both $sqrt{A}$ and $sqrt{B}$ are defined aside from points along $x+y=0$ (like $(0,0)$). This is a pretty messy polynomial, but at least it's a polynomial.
EDIT: This approach seems to be useless; a CAS plot of the zero set of $p$ has several components, all of which are in the region where $sqrt{A}$ and $sqrt{B}$ are defined. They must be extraneous solutions from the squaring that was done twice.
edited Oct 29 '13 at 15:08
answered Oct 29 '13 at 5:36
alex.jordanalex.jordan
39k560120
39k560120
add a comment |
add a comment |
$begingroup$
A more generalised approach over my earlier post. This is not intended to be an exhaustive proof but an experimental one. Constructive comments are most welcome.
Let
$$sqrt{y^2-x}-x=Ay^nqquad cdots (1)\
sqrt{x^2+y}-y=frac {y^{1-n}}A qquad cdots (2)\$$
such that the original equation $$left(sqrt{y^2-x}-xright)left(sqrt{x^2+y}-yright)=y$$
is satisfied as required.
From $(1)$,
$$begin{align}
sqrt{y^2-x}&=x+Ay^n\
y^2-x&=x^2++2Axy^n+A^2y^{2n}\
y^{2n}A^2+2xy^nA+(x^2-y^2+x)&=0\
A^2+frac {2x}{y^n}A+frac{(x^2-y^2+x)}{y^{2n}}&=0qquad qquad qquad qquad cdots (3)
end{align}$$
From $(2)$,
$$begin{align}
sqrt{x^2+y}&=y+frac {y^{1-n}}A\
Asqrt{x^2+y}&=Ay+y^{1-n}\
A^2(x^2+y)&=A^2y^2+2Ay^{2-n}+y^{2(1-n)}\
(x^2-y^2+y)A^2-2y^{2-n}A-y^{2(1-n)}&=0\
A^2-frac{2y^{2-n}}{x^2-y^2+y}A-frac{y^{2(1-n)}}{x^2-y^2+y}&=0qquad qquad qquad cdots (4)
end{align}$$
Equating coefficients of $A^1$:
$$begin{align}frac{2x}{y^n}&=-frac{2y^{2-n}}{x^2-y^2+y}\
y^2&=-x(x^2-y^2+y)qquad qquad qquad qquad qquad qquad cdots (5)end{align}$$
Equating coefficients of $A^0$:
$$begin{align}frac{x^2-y^2+x}{y^{2n}}&=-frac{y^{2(1-n)}}{x^2-y^2+y}\
y^2&=-(x^2-y^2+x)(x^2-y^2+y)qquad cdots (6)end{align}$$
(5)=(6):
$$begin{align}x(x^2-y^2+y)&=(x^2-y^2+x)(x^2-y^2+y)\
(x^2-y^2)(x^2+y^2-y)&=0\
(x-y)(x+y)(x^2-y^2+y)&=0\
Rightarrow x-y=&0, x+y=0, x^2-y^2+y=0end{align}$$
Checking by substitution into the original equation shows that only
$$x+y=0$$
is valid.
This graph created on desmos.com might help illustrate the approach:
https://www.desmos.com/calculator/qrlbgbalix
$endgroup$
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It's an interesting approach, but I don't buy it. Equations (3) and (4) show us that $A$ is a solution to the two indicated quadratic equations. It does not follow that they must be the same equation!
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– Bungo
Aug 23 '14 at 6:12
$begingroup$
@Bungo Thanks for your comments. $A$ is actually a parameter in this case, and defines a series of curves for each equation. However at the same value of $A$ both equations intersect at a point which satisfies the original equation. The locus of this point is the solution required. Setting both quadratic equations to be the same is essentially assigning the same value of $A$ for both equations.
$endgroup$
– hypergeometric
Aug 23 '14 at 9:10
$begingroup$
I agree that this is valid until you square the equations. But after squaring, each equation has a second root in addition to $A$. How do we know that the second root in (3) is the same as the second root in (4)? Sorry if I'm being dense. To take a simpler example: if $x = 1$ then for any $c$ I can express this as $x-c = 1-c$. Squaring both sides, I get $x^2 - 2xc + c^2 = 1 - 2c + c^2$, or $x^2 - 2xc - (1 - 2c) = 0$. If I carry out this procedure with two different values of $c$, I get two valid equations with $1$ as a root, but the coefficients are not the same.
$endgroup$
– Bungo
Aug 23 '14 at 16:40
$begingroup$
That's true. By equating coefficients we arrive at one particular solution, but there may be others, e.g. where the two quadratics are not the same but have one common root...would it be correct to say that? Any suggestions on other possible approaches?
$endgroup$
– hypergeometric
Aug 23 '14 at 16:58
$begingroup$
Yes, that's what I was getting at. If two quadratic equations have BOTH roots in common then their coefficients are the same, up to a common factor. (Actually that's one more issue with your approach: $x^2 + 2x + 1 = 0$ and $2x^2 + 4x + 2 = 0$ have the same roots but the coefficients are not equal.) Sorry, I don't have any suggestions at the moment - the other answer is pretty thorny and I haven't read through it yet. :-)
$endgroup$
– Bungo
Aug 23 '14 at 17:03
|
show 1 more comment
$begingroup$
A more generalised approach over my earlier post. This is not intended to be an exhaustive proof but an experimental one. Constructive comments are most welcome.
Let
$$sqrt{y^2-x}-x=Ay^nqquad cdots (1)\
sqrt{x^2+y}-y=frac {y^{1-n}}A qquad cdots (2)\$$
such that the original equation $$left(sqrt{y^2-x}-xright)left(sqrt{x^2+y}-yright)=y$$
is satisfied as required.
From $(1)$,
$$begin{align}
sqrt{y^2-x}&=x+Ay^n\
y^2-x&=x^2++2Axy^n+A^2y^{2n}\
y^{2n}A^2+2xy^nA+(x^2-y^2+x)&=0\
A^2+frac {2x}{y^n}A+frac{(x^2-y^2+x)}{y^{2n}}&=0qquad qquad qquad qquad cdots (3)
end{align}$$
From $(2)$,
$$begin{align}
sqrt{x^2+y}&=y+frac {y^{1-n}}A\
Asqrt{x^2+y}&=Ay+y^{1-n}\
A^2(x^2+y)&=A^2y^2+2Ay^{2-n}+y^{2(1-n)}\
(x^2-y^2+y)A^2-2y^{2-n}A-y^{2(1-n)}&=0\
A^2-frac{2y^{2-n}}{x^2-y^2+y}A-frac{y^{2(1-n)}}{x^2-y^2+y}&=0qquad qquad qquad cdots (4)
end{align}$$
Equating coefficients of $A^1$:
$$begin{align}frac{2x}{y^n}&=-frac{2y^{2-n}}{x^2-y^2+y}\
y^2&=-x(x^2-y^2+y)qquad qquad qquad qquad qquad qquad cdots (5)end{align}$$
Equating coefficients of $A^0$:
$$begin{align}frac{x^2-y^2+x}{y^{2n}}&=-frac{y^{2(1-n)}}{x^2-y^2+y}\
y^2&=-(x^2-y^2+x)(x^2-y^2+y)qquad cdots (6)end{align}$$
(5)=(6):
$$begin{align}x(x^2-y^2+y)&=(x^2-y^2+x)(x^2-y^2+y)\
(x^2-y^2)(x^2+y^2-y)&=0\
(x-y)(x+y)(x^2-y^2+y)&=0\
Rightarrow x-y=&0, x+y=0, x^2-y^2+y=0end{align}$$
Checking by substitution into the original equation shows that only
$$x+y=0$$
is valid.
This graph created on desmos.com might help illustrate the approach:
https://www.desmos.com/calculator/qrlbgbalix
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
It's an interesting approach, but I don't buy it. Equations (3) and (4) show us that $A$ is a solution to the two indicated quadratic equations. It does not follow that they must be the same equation!
$endgroup$
– Bungo
Aug 23 '14 at 6:12
$begingroup$
@Bungo Thanks for your comments. $A$ is actually a parameter in this case, and defines a series of curves for each equation. However at the same value of $A$ both equations intersect at a point which satisfies the original equation. The locus of this point is the solution required. Setting both quadratic equations to be the same is essentially assigning the same value of $A$ for both equations.
$endgroup$
– hypergeometric
Aug 23 '14 at 9:10
$begingroup$
I agree that this is valid until you square the equations. But after squaring, each equation has a second root in addition to $A$. How do we know that the second root in (3) is the same as the second root in (4)? Sorry if I'm being dense. To take a simpler example: if $x = 1$ then for any $c$ I can express this as $x-c = 1-c$. Squaring both sides, I get $x^2 - 2xc + c^2 = 1 - 2c + c^2$, or $x^2 - 2xc - (1 - 2c) = 0$. If I carry out this procedure with two different values of $c$, I get two valid equations with $1$ as a root, but the coefficients are not the same.
$endgroup$
– Bungo
Aug 23 '14 at 16:40
$begingroup$
That's true. By equating coefficients we arrive at one particular solution, but there may be others, e.g. where the two quadratics are not the same but have one common root...would it be correct to say that? Any suggestions on other possible approaches?
$endgroup$
– hypergeometric
Aug 23 '14 at 16:58
$begingroup$
Yes, that's what I was getting at. If two quadratic equations have BOTH roots in common then their coefficients are the same, up to a common factor. (Actually that's one more issue with your approach: $x^2 + 2x + 1 = 0$ and $2x^2 + 4x + 2 = 0$ have the same roots but the coefficients are not equal.) Sorry, I don't have any suggestions at the moment - the other answer is pretty thorny and I haven't read through it yet. :-)
$endgroup$
– Bungo
Aug 23 '14 at 17:03
|
show 1 more comment
$begingroup$
A more generalised approach over my earlier post. This is not intended to be an exhaustive proof but an experimental one. Constructive comments are most welcome.
Let
$$sqrt{y^2-x}-x=Ay^nqquad cdots (1)\
sqrt{x^2+y}-y=frac {y^{1-n}}A qquad cdots (2)\$$
such that the original equation $$left(sqrt{y^2-x}-xright)left(sqrt{x^2+y}-yright)=y$$
is satisfied as required.
From $(1)$,
$$begin{align}
sqrt{y^2-x}&=x+Ay^n\
y^2-x&=x^2++2Axy^n+A^2y^{2n}\
y^{2n}A^2+2xy^nA+(x^2-y^2+x)&=0\
A^2+frac {2x}{y^n}A+frac{(x^2-y^2+x)}{y^{2n}}&=0qquad qquad qquad qquad cdots (3)
end{align}$$
From $(2)$,
$$begin{align}
sqrt{x^2+y}&=y+frac {y^{1-n}}A\
Asqrt{x^2+y}&=Ay+y^{1-n}\
A^2(x^2+y)&=A^2y^2+2Ay^{2-n}+y^{2(1-n)}\
(x^2-y^2+y)A^2-2y^{2-n}A-y^{2(1-n)}&=0\
A^2-frac{2y^{2-n}}{x^2-y^2+y}A-frac{y^{2(1-n)}}{x^2-y^2+y}&=0qquad qquad qquad cdots (4)
end{align}$$
Equating coefficients of $A^1$:
$$begin{align}frac{2x}{y^n}&=-frac{2y^{2-n}}{x^2-y^2+y}\
y^2&=-x(x^2-y^2+y)qquad qquad qquad qquad qquad qquad cdots (5)end{align}$$
Equating coefficients of $A^0$:
$$begin{align}frac{x^2-y^2+x}{y^{2n}}&=-frac{y^{2(1-n)}}{x^2-y^2+y}\
y^2&=-(x^2-y^2+x)(x^2-y^2+y)qquad cdots (6)end{align}$$
(5)=(6):
$$begin{align}x(x^2-y^2+y)&=(x^2-y^2+x)(x^2-y^2+y)\
(x^2-y^2)(x^2+y^2-y)&=0\
(x-y)(x+y)(x^2-y^2+y)&=0\
Rightarrow x-y=&0, x+y=0, x^2-y^2+y=0end{align}$$
Checking by substitution into the original equation shows that only
$$x+y=0$$
is valid.
This graph created on desmos.com might help illustrate the approach:
https://www.desmos.com/calculator/qrlbgbalix
$endgroup$
A more generalised approach over my earlier post. This is not intended to be an exhaustive proof but an experimental one. Constructive comments are most welcome.
Let
$$sqrt{y^2-x}-x=Ay^nqquad cdots (1)\
sqrt{x^2+y}-y=frac {y^{1-n}}A qquad cdots (2)\$$
such that the original equation $$left(sqrt{y^2-x}-xright)left(sqrt{x^2+y}-yright)=y$$
is satisfied as required.
From $(1)$,
$$begin{align}
sqrt{y^2-x}&=x+Ay^n\
y^2-x&=x^2++2Axy^n+A^2y^{2n}\
y^{2n}A^2+2xy^nA+(x^2-y^2+x)&=0\
A^2+frac {2x}{y^n}A+frac{(x^2-y^2+x)}{y^{2n}}&=0qquad qquad qquad qquad cdots (3)
end{align}$$
From $(2)$,
$$begin{align}
sqrt{x^2+y}&=y+frac {y^{1-n}}A\
Asqrt{x^2+y}&=Ay+y^{1-n}\
A^2(x^2+y)&=A^2y^2+2Ay^{2-n}+y^{2(1-n)}\
(x^2-y^2+y)A^2-2y^{2-n}A-y^{2(1-n)}&=0\
A^2-frac{2y^{2-n}}{x^2-y^2+y}A-frac{y^{2(1-n)}}{x^2-y^2+y}&=0qquad qquad qquad cdots (4)
end{align}$$
Equating coefficients of $A^1$:
$$begin{align}frac{2x}{y^n}&=-frac{2y^{2-n}}{x^2-y^2+y}\
y^2&=-x(x^2-y^2+y)qquad qquad qquad qquad qquad qquad cdots (5)end{align}$$
Equating coefficients of $A^0$:
$$begin{align}frac{x^2-y^2+x}{y^{2n}}&=-frac{y^{2(1-n)}}{x^2-y^2+y}\
y^2&=-(x^2-y^2+x)(x^2-y^2+y)qquad cdots (6)end{align}$$
(5)=(6):
$$begin{align}x(x^2-y^2+y)&=(x^2-y^2+x)(x^2-y^2+y)\
(x^2-y^2)(x^2+y^2-y)&=0\
(x-y)(x+y)(x^2-y^2+y)&=0\
Rightarrow x-y=&0, x+y=0, x^2-y^2+y=0end{align}$$
Checking by substitution into the original equation shows that only
$$x+y=0$$
is valid.
This graph created on desmos.com might help illustrate the approach:
https://www.desmos.com/calculator/qrlbgbalix
edited Aug 24 '14 at 6:06
answered Aug 23 '14 at 5:58
hypergeometrichypergeometric
17.7k1758
17.7k1758
$begingroup$
It's an interesting approach, but I don't buy it. Equations (3) and (4) show us that $A$ is a solution to the two indicated quadratic equations. It does not follow that they must be the same equation!
$endgroup$
– Bungo
Aug 23 '14 at 6:12
$begingroup$
@Bungo Thanks for your comments. $A$ is actually a parameter in this case, and defines a series of curves for each equation. However at the same value of $A$ both equations intersect at a point which satisfies the original equation. The locus of this point is the solution required. Setting both quadratic equations to be the same is essentially assigning the same value of $A$ for both equations.
$endgroup$
– hypergeometric
Aug 23 '14 at 9:10
$begingroup$
I agree that this is valid until you square the equations. But after squaring, each equation has a second root in addition to $A$. How do we know that the second root in (3) is the same as the second root in (4)? Sorry if I'm being dense. To take a simpler example: if $x = 1$ then for any $c$ I can express this as $x-c = 1-c$. Squaring both sides, I get $x^2 - 2xc + c^2 = 1 - 2c + c^2$, or $x^2 - 2xc - (1 - 2c) = 0$. If I carry out this procedure with two different values of $c$, I get two valid equations with $1$ as a root, but the coefficients are not the same.
$endgroup$
– Bungo
Aug 23 '14 at 16:40
$begingroup$
That's true. By equating coefficients we arrive at one particular solution, but there may be others, e.g. where the two quadratics are not the same but have one common root...would it be correct to say that? Any suggestions on other possible approaches?
$endgroup$
– hypergeometric
Aug 23 '14 at 16:58
$begingroup$
Yes, that's what I was getting at. If two quadratic equations have BOTH roots in common then their coefficients are the same, up to a common factor. (Actually that's one more issue with your approach: $x^2 + 2x + 1 = 0$ and $2x^2 + 4x + 2 = 0$ have the same roots but the coefficients are not equal.) Sorry, I don't have any suggestions at the moment - the other answer is pretty thorny and I haven't read through it yet. :-)
$endgroup$
– Bungo
Aug 23 '14 at 17:03
|
show 1 more comment
$begingroup$
It's an interesting approach, but I don't buy it. Equations (3) and (4) show us that $A$ is a solution to the two indicated quadratic equations. It does not follow that they must be the same equation!
$endgroup$
– Bungo
Aug 23 '14 at 6:12
$begingroup$
@Bungo Thanks for your comments. $A$ is actually a parameter in this case, and defines a series of curves for each equation. However at the same value of $A$ both equations intersect at a point which satisfies the original equation. The locus of this point is the solution required. Setting both quadratic equations to be the same is essentially assigning the same value of $A$ for both equations.
$endgroup$
– hypergeometric
Aug 23 '14 at 9:10
$begingroup$
I agree that this is valid until you square the equations. But after squaring, each equation has a second root in addition to $A$. How do we know that the second root in (3) is the same as the second root in (4)? Sorry if I'm being dense. To take a simpler example: if $x = 1$ then for any $c$ I can express this as $x-c = 1-c$. Squaring both sides, I get $x^2 - 2xc + c^2 = 1 - 2c + c^2$, or $x^2 - 2xc - (1 - 2c) = 0$. If I carry out this procedure with two different values of $c$, I get two valid equations with $1$ as a root, but the coefficients are not the same.
$endgroup$
– Bungo
Aug 23 '14 at 16:40
$begingroup$
That's true. By equating coefficients we arrive at one particular solution, but there may be others, e.g. where the two quadratics are not the same but have one common root...would it be correct to say that? Any suggestions on other possible approaches?
$endgroup$
– hypergeometric
Aug 23 '14 at 16:58
$begingroup$
Yes, that's what I was getting at. If two quadratic equations have BOTH roots in common then their coefficients are the same, up to a common factor. (Actually that's one more issue with your approach: $x^2 + 2x + 1 = 0$ and $2x^2 + 4x + 2 = 0$ have the same roots but the coefficients are not equal.) Sorry, I don't have any suggestions at the moment - the other answer is pretty thorny and I haven't read through it yet. :-)
$endgroup$
– Bungo
Aug 23 '14 at 17:03
$begingroup$
It's an interesting approach, but I don't buy it. Equations (3) and (4) show us that $A$ is a solution to the two indicated quadratic equations. It does not follow that they must be the same equation!
$endgroup$
– Bungo
Aug 23 '14 at 6:12
$begingroup$
It's an interesting approach, but I don't buy it. Equations (3) and (4) show us that $A$ is a solution to the two indicated quadratic equations. It does not follow that they must be the same equation!
$endgroup$
– Bungo
Aug 23 '14 at 6:12
$begingroup$
@Bungo Thanks for your comments. $A$ is actually a parameter in this case, and defines a series of curves for each equation. However at the same value of $A$ both equations intersect at a point which satisfies the original equation. The locus of this point is the solution required. Setting both quadratic equations to be the same is essentially assigning the same value of $A$ for both equations.
$endgroup$
– hypergeometric
Aug 23 '14 at 9:10
$begingroup$
@Bungo Thanks for your comments. $A$ is actually a parameter in this case, and defines a series of curves for each equation. However at the same value of $A$ both equations intersect at a point which satisfies the original equation. The locus of this point is the solution required. Setting both quadratic equations to be the same is essentially assigning the same value of $A$ for both equations.
$endgroup$
– hypergeometric
Aug 23 '14 at 9:10
$begingroup$
I agree that this is valid until you square the equations. But after squaring, each equation has a second root in addition to $A$. How do we know that the second root in (3) is the same as the second root in (4)? Sorry if I'm being dense. To take a simpler example: if $x = 1$ then for any $c$ I can express this as $x-c = 1-c$. Squaring both sides, I get $x^2 - 2xc + c^2 = 1 - 2c + c^2$, or $x^2 - 2xc - (1 - 2c) = 0$. If I carry out this procedure with two different values of $c$, I get two valid equations with $1$ as a root, but the coefficients are not the same.
$endgroup$
– Bungo
Aug 23 '14 at 16:40
$begingroup$
I agree that this is valid until you square the equations. But after squaring, each equation has a second root in addition to $A$. How do we know that the second root in (3) is the same as the second root in (4)? Sorry if I'm being dense. To take a simpler example: if $x = 1$ then for any $c$ I can express this as $x-c = 1-c$. Squaring both sides, I get $x^2 - 2xc + c^2 = 1 - 2c + c^2$, or $x^2 - 2xc - (1 - 2c) = 0$. If I carry out this procedure with two different values of $c$, I get two valid equations with $1$ as a root, but the coefficients are not the same.
$endgroup$
– Bungo
Aug 23 '14 at 16:40
$begingroup$
That's true. By equating coefficients we arrive at one particular solution, but there may be others, e.g. where the two quadratics are not the same but have one common root...would it be correct to say that? Any suggestions on other possible approaches?
$endgroup$
– hypergeometric
Aug 23 '14 at 16:58
$begingroup$
That's true. By equating coefficients we arrive at one particular solution, but there may be others, e.g. where the two quadratics are not the same but have one common root...would it be correct to say that? Any suggestions on other possible approaches?
$endgroup$
– hypergeometric
Aug 23 '14 at 16:58
$begingroup$
Yes, that's what I was getting at. If two quadratic equations have BOTH roots in common then their coefficients are the same, up to a common factor. (Actually that's one more issue with your approach: $x^2 + 2x + 1 = 0$ and $2x^2 + 4x + 2 = 0$ have the same roots but the coefficients are not equal.) Sorry, I don't have any suggestions at the moment - the other answer is pretty thorny and I haven't read through it yet. :-)
$endgroup$
– Bungo
Aug 23 '14 at 17:03
$begingroup$
Yes, that's what I was getting at. If two quadratic equations have BOTH roots in common then their coefficients are the same, up to a common factor. (Actually that's one more issue with your approach: $x^2 + 2x + 1 = 0$ and $2x^2 + 4x + 2 = 0$ have the same roots but the coefficients are not equal.) Sorry, I don't have any suggestions at the moment - the other answer is pretty thorny and I haven't read through it yet. :-)
$endgroup$
– Bungo
Aug 23 '14 at 17:03
|
show 1 more comment
$begingroup$
We need to prove that $x=y$, where
$$left(sqrt{y^{2}+x}+xright)left(sqrt{x^{2} + y}- yright)=y$$ or
$$left(sqrt{y^{2}+x}+xright)left(sqrt{x^{2} + y}- yright)=left(sqrt{x^{2}+y}+xright)left(sqrt{x^{2} + y}- xright)$$ or
$$left(sqrt{y^{2}+x}+xright)left(sqrt{x^{2} + y}- yright)-left(sqrt{x^{2}+y}+xright)left(sqrt{x^{2} + y}- yright)+$$
$$+left(sqrt{x^{2}+y}+xright)left(sqrt{x^{2} + y}- yright)-left(sqrt{x^{2}+y}+xright)left(sqrt{x^{2} + y}- xright)=0$$ or
$$left(sqrt{y^{2}+x}-sqrt{x^2+y}right)left(sqrt{x^{2} + y}- yright)+left(sqrt{x^{2}+y}+xright)(x-y)=0,$$ which gives $x=y$ or
$$frac{(1-x-y)left(sqrt{x^{2} + y}- yright)}{sqrt{y^{2}+x}+sqrt{x^2+y}}+sqrt{x^{2}+y}+x=0,$$ which is
$$sqrt{x^2+y}-ysqrt{x^2+y}+sqrt{(x^2+y)(y^2+x)}+xsqrt{y^2+x}+x^2+xy+y^2=0.$$
Now, we'll consider four cases.
$xgeq0$, $ygeq 0$.
Since $$-ysqrt{x^2+y}+sqrt{(x^2+y)(y^2+x)}=sqrt{x^2+y}left(sqrt{y^2+x}-yright)geq0,$$ we obtain $x=y=0.$
$xgeq0,$ $yleq0.$
It's obvious that this case gives $x=y=0$ again.
$xleq0$, $ygeq0.$
Since, $$sqrt{(x^2+y)(y^2+x)}+xsqrt{y^2+x}=sqrt{y^2+x}left(sqrt{x^2+y}+xright)geq0,$$ it's enough to prove that
$$x^2+xy+y^2geq(y-1)sqrt{x^2+y},$$ which is obvious for $yleq1.$
But for $ygeq1$ by AM-GM we obtain:
$$(y-1)sqrt{x^2+y}leqfrac{1}{2}((y-1)^2+x^2+y)$$ and it's enough to prove that
$$x^2+xy+y^2geqfrac{1}{2}((y-1)^2+x^2+y)$$ or
$$require{cancel} cancel{(x+y)^2+y^2+y-1geq0.}\
(x+y)^2+y-1geq0.$$
We see that for $ygeq1$ the equality does not occur and in the case $y<1$ the equality occurs for
$$x^2+xy+y^2=(y-1)sqrt{x^2+y}=0,$$ which gives $x=y=0$ again.
$xleq0$ and $yleq0.$
In this case it's enough to prove that
$$xy+xsqrt{y^2+x}geq0$$ or
$$xleft(y+sqrt{y^2+x}right)geq0,$$ which is obvious.
The equality occurs for $x^2+y^2=0$ and we got $x=y=0$ again.
Done!
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
Very nice proof (+1)!
$endgroup$
– Andreas
Dec 5 '18 at 15:38
$begingroup$
@Andreas Thank you and thank you for your editing. Do you see that my solution it's an unique right solution in this topic?
$endgroup$
– Michael Rozenberg
Dec 5 '18 at 15:53
$begingroup$
Your solution is the only valid one in here, as far as I see it, which goes without calculus. There may be other approaches with calculus, I didn't check that fully.
$endgroup$
– Andreas
Dec 6 '18 at 7:23
add a comment |
$begingroup$
We need to prove that $x=y$, where
$$left(sqrt{y^{2}+x}+xright)left(sqrt{x^{2} + y}- yright)=y$$ or
$$left(sqrt{y^{2}+x}+xright)left(sqrt{x^{2} + y}- yright)=left(sqrt{x^{2}+y}+xright)left(sqrt{x^{2} + y}- xright)$$ or
$$left(sqrt{y^{2}+x}+xright)left(sqrt{x^{2} + y}- yright)-left(sqrt{x^{2}+y}+xright)left(sqrt{x^{2} + y}- yright)+$$
$$+left(sqrt{x^{2}+y}+xright)left(sqrt{x^{2} + y}- yright)-left(sqrt{x^{2}+y}+xright)left(sqrt{x^{2} + y}- xright)=0$$ or
$$left(sqrt{y^{2}+x}-sqrt{x^2+y}right)left(sqrt{x^{2} + y}- yright)+left(sqrt{x^{2}+y}+xright)(x-y)=0,$$ which gives $x=y$ or
$$frac{(1-x-y)left(sqrt{x^{2} + y}- yright)}{sqrt{y^{2}+x}+sqrt{x^2+y}}+sqrt{x^{2}+y}+x=0,$$ which is
$$sqrt{x^2+y}-ysqrt{x^2+y}+sqrt{(x^2+y)(y^2+x)}+xsqrt{y^2+x}+x^2+xy+y^2=0.$$
Now, we'll consider four cases.
$xgeq0$, $ygeq 0$.
Since $$-ysqrt{x^2+y}+sqrt{(x^2+y)(y^2+x)}=sqrt{x^2+y}left(sqrt{y^2+x}-yright)geq0,$$ we obtain $x=y=0.$
$xgeq0,$ $yleq0.$
It's obvious that this case gives $x=y=0$ again.
$xleq0$, $ygeq0.$
Since, $$sqrt{(x^2+y)(y^2+x)}+xsqrt{y^2+x}=sqrt{y^2+x}left(sqrt{x^2+y}+xright)geq0,$$ it's enough to prove that
$$x^2+xy+y^2geq(y-1)sqrt{x^2+y},$$ which is obvious for $yleq1.$
But for $ygeq1$ by AM-GM we obtain:
$$(y-1)sqrt{x^2+y}leqfrac{1}{2}((y-1)^2+x^2+y)$$ and it's enough to prove that
$$x^2+xy+y^2geqfrac{1}{2}((y-1)^2+x^2+y)$$ or
$$require{cancel} cancel{(x+y)^2+y^2+y-1geq0.}\
(x+y)^2+y-1geq0.$$
We see that for $ygeq1$ the equality does not occur and in the case $y<1$ the equality occurs for
$$x^2+xy+y^2=(y-1)sqrt{x^2+y}=0,$$ which gives $x=y=0$ again.
$xleq0$ and $yleq0.$
In this case it's enough to prove that
$$xy+xsqrt{y^2+x}geq0$$ or
$$xleft(y+sqrt{y^2+x}right)geq0,$$ which is obvious.
The equality occurs for $x^2+y^2=0$ and we got $x=y=0$ again.
Done!
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
Very nice proof (+1)!
$endgroup$
– Andreas
Dec 5 '18 at 15:38
$begingroup$
@Andreas Thank you and thank you for your editing. Do you see that my solution it's an unique right solution in this topic?
$endgroup$
– Michael Rozenberg
Dec 5 '18 at 15:53
$begingroup$
Your solution is the only valid one in here, as far as I see it, which goes without calculus. There may be other approaches with calculus, I didn't check that fully.
$endgroup$
– Andreas
Dec 6 '18 at 7:23
add a comment |
$begingroup$
We need to prove that $x=y$, where
$$left(sqrt{y^{2}+x}+xright)left(sqrt{x^{2} + y}- yright)=y$$ or
$$left(sqrt{y^{2}+x}+xright)left(sqrt{x^{2} + y}- yright)=left(sqrt{x^{2}+y}+xright)left(sqrt{x^{2} + y}- xright)$$ or
$$left(sqrt{y^{2}+x}+xright)left(sqrt{x^{2} + y}- yright)-left(sqrt{x^{2}+y}+xright)left(sqrt{x^{2} + y}- yright)+$$
$$+left(sqrt{x^{2}+y}+xright)left(sqrt{x^{2} + y}- yright)-left(sqrt{x^{2}+y}+xright)left(sqrt{x^{2} + y}- xright)=0$$ or
$$left(sqrt{y^{2}+x}-sqrt{x^2+y}right)left(sqrt{x^{2} + y}- yright)+left(sqrt{x^{2}+y}+xright)(x-y)=0,$$ which gives $x=y$ or
$$frac{(1-x-y)left(sqrt{x^{2} + y}- yright)}{sqrt{y^{2}+x}+sqrt{x^2+y}}+sqrt{x^{2}+y}+x=0,$$ which is
$$sqrt{x^2+y}-ysqrt{x^2+y}+sqrt{(x^2+y)(y^2+x)}+xsqrt{y^2+x}+x^2+xy+y^2=0.$$
Now, we'll consider four cases.
$xgeq0$, $ygeq 0$.
Since $$-ysqrt{x^2+y}+sqrt{(x^2+y)(y^2+x)}=sqrt{x^2+y}left(sqrt{y^2+x}-yright)geq0,$$ we obtain $x=y=0.$
$xgeq0,$ $yleq0.$
It's obvious that this case gives $x=y=0$ again.
$xleq0$, $ygeq0.$
Since, $$sqrt{(x^2+y)(y^2+x)}+xsqrt{y^2+x}=sqrt{y^2+x}left(sqrt{x^2+y}+xright)geq0,$$ it's enough to prove that
$$x^2+xy+y^2geq(y-1)sqrt{x^2+y},$$ which is obvious for $yleq1.$
But for $ygeq1$ by AM-GM we obtain:
$$(y-1)sqrt{x^2+y}leqfrac{1}{2}((y-1)^2+x^2+y)$$ and it's enough to prove that
$$x^2+xy+y^2geqfrac{1}{2}((y-1)^2+x^2+y)$$ or
$$require{cancel} cancel{(x+y)^2+y^2+y-1geq0.}\
(x+y)^2+y-1geq0.$$
We see that for $ygeq1$ the equality does not occur and in the case $y<1$ the equality occurs for
$$x^2+xy+y^2=(y-1)sqrt{x^2+y}=0,$$ which gives $x=y=0$ again.
$xleq0$ and $yleq0.$
In this case it's enough to prove that
$$xy+xsqrt{y^2+x}geq0$$ or
$$xleft(y+sqrt{y^2+x}right)geq0,$$ which is obvious.
The equality occurs for $x^2+y^2=0$ and we got $x=y=0$ again.
Done!
$endgroup$
We need to prove that $x=y$, where
$$left(sqrt{y^{2}+x}+xright)left(sqrt{x^{2} + y}- yright)=y$$ or
$$left(sqrt{y^{2}+x}+xright)left(sqrt{x^{2} + y}- yright)=left(sqrt{x^{2}+y}+xright)left(sqrt{x^{2} + y}- xright)$$ or
$$left(sqrt{y^{2}+x}+xright)left(sqrt{x^{2} + y}- yright)-left(sqrt{x^{2}+y}+xright)left(sqrt{x^{2} + y}- yright)+$$
$$+left(sqrt{x^{2}+y}+xright)left(sqrt{x^{2} + y}- yright)-left(sqrt{x^{2}+y}+xright)left(sqrt{x^{2} + y}- xright)=0$$ or
$$left(sqrt{y^{2}+x}-sqrt{x^2+y}right)left(sqrt{x^{2} + y}- yright)+left(sqrt{x^{2}+y}+xright)(x-y)=0,$$ which gives $x=y$ or
$$frac{(1-x-y)left(sqrt{x^{2} + y}- yright)}{sqrt{y^{2}+x}+sqrt{x^2+y}}+sqrt{x^{2}+y}+x=0,$$ which is
$$sqrt{x^2+y}-ysqrt{x^2+y}+sqrt{(x^2+y)(y^2+x)}+xsqrt{y^2+x}+x^2+xy+y^2=0.$$
Now, we'll consider four cases.
$xgeq0$, $ygeq 0$.
Since $$-ysqrt{x^2+y}+sqrt{(x^2+y)(y^2+x)}=sqrt{x^2+y}left(sqrt{y^2+x}-yright)geq0,$$ we obtain $x=y=0.$
$xgeq0,$ $yleq0.$
It's obvious that this case gives $x=y=0$ again.
$xleq0$, $ygeq0.$
Since, $$sqrt{(x^2+y)(y^2+x)}+xsqrt{y^2+x}=sqrt{y^2+x}left(sqrt{x^2+y}+xright)geq0,$$ it's enough to prove that
$$x^2+xy+y^2geq(y-1)sqrt{x^2+y},$$ which is obvious for $yleq1.$
But for $ygeq1$ by AM-GM we obtain:
$$(y-1)sqrt{x^2+y}leqfrac{1}{2}((y-1)^2+x^2+y)$$ and it's enough to prove that
$$x^2+xy+y^2geqfrac{1}{2}((y-1)^2+x^2+y)$$ or
$$require{cancel} cancel{(x+y)^2+y^2+y-1geq0.}\
(x+y)^2+y-1geq0.$$
We see that for $ygeq1$ the equality does not occur and in the case $y<1$ the equality occurs for
$$x^2+xy+y^2=(y-1)sqrt{x^2+y}=0,$$ which gives $x=y=0$ again.
$xleq0$ and $yleq0.$
In this case it's enough to prove that
$$xy+xsqrt{y^2+x}geq0$$ or
$$xleft(y+sqrt{y^2+x}right)geq0,$$ which is obvious.
The equality occurs for $x^2+y^2=0$ and we got $x=y=0$ again.
Done!
edited Dec 5 '18 at 17:49
answered Nov 26 '18 at 12:50
Michael RozenbergMichael Rozenberg
99.1k1590189
99.1k1590189
$begingroup$
Very nice proof (+1)!
$endgroup$
– Andreas
Dec 5 '18 at 15:38
$begingroup$
@Andreas Thank you and thank you for your editing. Do you see that my solution it's an unique right solution in this topic?
$endgroup$
– Michael Rozenberg
Dec 5 '18 at 15:53
$begingroup$
Your solution is the only valid one in here, as far as I see it, which goes without calculus. There may be other approaches with calculus, I didn't check that fully.
$endgroup$
– Andreas
Dec 6 '18 at 7:23
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Very nice proof (+1)!
$endgroup$
– Andreas
Dec 5 '18 at 15:38
$begingroup$
@Andreas Thank you and thank you for your editing. Do you see that my solution it's an unique right solution in this topic?
$endgroup$
– Michael Rozenberg
Dec 5 '18 at 15:53
$begingroup$
Your solution is the only valid one in here, as far as I see it, which goes without calculus. There may be other approaches with calculus, I didn't check that fully.
$endgroup$
– Andreas
Dec 6 '18 at 7:23
$begingroup$
Very nice proof (+1)!
$endgroup$
– Andreas
Dec 5 '18 at 15:38
$begingroup$
Very nice proof (+1)!
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– Andreas
Dec 5 '18 at 15:38
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@Andreas Thank you and thank you for your editing. Do you see that my solution it's an unique right solution in this topic?
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– Michael Rozenberg
Dec 5 '18 at 15:53
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@Andreas Thank you and thank you for your editing. Do you see that my solution it's an unique right solution in this topic?
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– Michael Rozenberg
Dec 5 '18 at 15:53
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Your solution is the only valid one in here, as far as I see it, which goes without calculus. There may be other approaches with calculus, I didn't check that fully.
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– Andreas
Dec 6 '18 at 7:23
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Your solution is the only valid one in here, as far as I see it, which goes without calculus. There may be other approaches with calculus, I didn't check that fully.
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– Andreas
Dec 6 '18 at 7:23
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$begingroup$
We can't apply inequalities here, as WA shows in (wolframalpha.com/input/…) together with (wolframalpha.com/input/…). (The variable $a$ takes a negative value as well as a positive one, so we don't have $LHSle RHS$ or $RHSle LHS$ consistently)
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– chubakueno
Oct 29 '13 at 2:55
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Yes,But This is different problem,Thank you
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– china math
Oct 29 '13 at 4:37
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Maybe it helps to call $f(x,y) = x+y$, leave all that mess in terms of $f(x,y), x$ and $y$, and check that $partial f/partial x = partial f / partial y = 0$, and see that $f(x,y) = 0 $ at least once.
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– Ivo Terek
Jul 15 '14 at 4:15
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By conjecture, x+y=0, so x = -y. Substitute -y for x in the equation. Solve left side, y=y.
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– Paul Magnussen
Aug 26 '14 at 17:50
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Why isn't it correct to prove by the conjecture $y=-x$?
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– rae306
Aug 26 '14 at 18:29