Conjecture: if $a$, $b$ and $c$ have no common factors, dividing each of them by their sum yields at least...












2












$begingroup$



Let $a$, $b$ and $c$ be $3$ integers with no common factors.



I conjecture that at least one of the three fractions:



$$frac{a}{a+b+c},quadfrac{b}{a+b+c},quadfrac{c}{a+b+c}$$



is irreducible.




I know that they are not necessarily all irreducible.



For instance, taking $(a,b,c)=(2,7,15)$, it is verified that $2$, $7$ and $15$ have no common factors.



We have $a+b+c=24$ so
$$dfrac{2}{2+7+15}=dfrac{2}{24}quad(text{reducible)}$$
$$dfrac{7}{2+7+15}=dfrac{7}{24}quad(text{irreducible)}$$
$$dfrac{15}{2+7+15}=dfrac{15}{24}quad(text{reducible)}$$



I have yet to find any counter-example to the initial statement so I'm pretty certain it must be true. I believe I managed to prove the analogous statement for $2$ integers but I would like to generalize it to $3$, and eventually $n$, integers.





Proof for two integers $a$ and $b$ with no common factors



Suppose $k$ is a factor of $a$ and that $a'$ is an integer such that $a=ka'$. Then:



$$frac{a}{a+b}=frac{ka'}{ka'+b}=frac{ka'}{kleft(a'+dfrac{b}{k}right)}=dfrac{a'}{a'+dfrac{b}{k}}$$



But $k$ is a factor of $a$ and $a$ and $b$ have no common factors by hypothesis, so $k$ does not divide $b$. So $dfrac{b}{k}$ is irreducible. Since $a'$ is an integer and $dfrac{b}{k}$ isn't (assuming $kneq 1$), then $dfrac{a'}{a'+dfrac{b}{k}}$ is not a 'fraction' in the sense that it is not a ratio of two integers, making the original fraction $dfrac{a}{a+b}$ irreducible.



This proves (correct me if I'm wrong) that at least one of the the fractions $dfrac{a}{a+b}$ or $dfrac{b}{a+b}$ is irreducible.





For the case with $3$ integers, a similar argument doesn't seem to work. Taking $(4,5,11)$ as an example:



$$frac{4}{4+5+11}=frac{4}{4left(1+dfrac{5}{4}+dfrac{11}{4}right)}=frac{1}{1+dfrac{16}{4}}=frac{1}{5}$$



the fact that there are now $3$ numbers allows for some fractions to combine into an integer. Because of this, I'm having difficulty proving the statement further.





I'm not particularly good with number theory proofs and I apologize if this is not as elegant as it should be (or worse, if there are mistakes). I'm welcoming any tips and possible improvements. Thanks in advance!










share|cite|improve this question











$endgroup$












  • $begingroup$
    Suggested edit to title: dividing each by (Slightly clearer, and its not worth me submitting a suggested 1-word edit for review!)
    $endgroup$
    – timtfj
    Dec 7 '18 at 22:49










  • $begingroup$
    I can't edit this myself; 15/24 is not irreducible.
    $endgroup$
    – RandomMathGuy
    Dec 7 '18 at 22:56










  • $begingroup$
    @RandomMathGuy Thanks for pointing that out! (Also clarified the title, thank you timtfj.)
    $endgroup$
    – orion2112
    Dec 7 '18 at 22:59
















2












$begingroup$



Let $a$, $b$ and $c$ be $3$ integers with no common factors.



I conjecture that at least one of the three fractions:



$$frac{a}{a+b+c},quadfrac{b}{a+b+c},quadfrac{c}{a+b+c}$$



is irreducible.




I know that they are not necessarily all irreducible.



For instance, taking $(a,b,c)=(2,7,15)$, it is verified that $2$, $7$ and $15$ have no common factors.



We have $a+b+c=24$ so
$$dfrac{2}{2+7+15}=dfrac{2}{24}quad(text{reducible)}$$
$$dfrac{7}{2+7+15}=dfrac{7}{24}quad(text{irreducible)}$$
$$dfrac{15}{2+7+15}=dfrac{15}{24}quad(text{reducible)}$$



I have yet to find any counter-example to the initial statement so I'm pretty certain it must be true. I believe I managed to prove the analogous statement for $2$ integers but I would like to generalize it to $3$, and eventually $n$, integers.





Proof for two integers $a$ and $b$ with no common factors



Suppose $k$ is a factor of $a$ and that $a'$ is an integer such that $a=ka'$. Then:



$$frac{a}{a+b}=frac{ka'}{ka'+b}=frac{ka'}{kleft(a'+dfrac{b}{k}right)}=dfrac{a'}{a'+dfrac{b}{k}}$$



But $k$ is a factor of $a$ and $a$ and $b$ have no common factors by hypothesis, so $k$ does not divide $b$. So $dfrac{b}{k}$ is irreducible. Since $a'$ is an integer and $dfrac{b}{k}$ isn't (assuming $kneq 1$), then $dfrac{a'}{a'+dfrac{b}{k}}$ is not a 'fraction' in the sense that it is not a ratio of two integers, making the original fraction $dfrac{a}{a+b}$ irreducible.



This proves (correct me if I'm wrong) that at least one of the the fractions $dfrac{a}{a+b}$ or $dfrac{b}{a+b}$ is irreducible.





For the case with $3$ integers, a similar argument doesn't seem to work. Taking $(4,5,11)$ as an example:



$$frac{4}{4+5+11}=frac{4}{4left(1+dfrac{5}{4}+dfrac{11}{4}right)}=frac{1}{1+dfrac{16}{4}}=frac{1}{5}$$



the fact that there are now $3$ numbers allows for some fractions to combine into an integer. Because of this, I'm having difficulty proving the statement further.





I'm not particularly good with number theory proofs and I apologize if this is not as elegant as it should be (or worse, if there are mistakes). I'm welcoming any tips and possible improvements. Thanks in advance!










share|cite|improve this question











$endgroup$












  • $begingroup$
    Suggested edit to title: dividing each by (Slightly clearer, and its not worth me submitting a suggested 1-word edit for review!)
    $endgroup$
    – timtfj
    Dec 7 '18 at 22:49










  • $begingroup$
    I can't edit this myself; 15/24 is not irreducible.
    $endgroup$
    – RandomMathGuy
    Dec 7 '18 at 22:56










  • $begingroup$
    @RandomMathGuy Thanks for pointing that out! (Also clarified the title, thank you timtfj.)
    $endgroup$
    – orion2112
    Dec 7 '18 at 22:59














2












2








2


0



$begingroup$



Let $a$, $b$ and $c$ be $3$ integers with no common factors.



I conjecture that at least one of the three fractions:



$$frac{a}{a+b+c},quadfrac{b}{a+b+c},quadfrac{c}{a+b+c}$$



is irreducible.




I know that they are not necessarily all irreducible.



For instance, taking $(a,b,c)=(2,7,15)$, it is verified that $2$, $7$ and $15$ have no common factors.



We have $a+b+c=24$ so
$$dfrac{2}{2+7+15}=dfrac{2}{24}quad(text{reducible)}$$
$$dfrac{7}{2+7+15}=dfrac{7}{24}quad(text{irreducible)}$$
$$dfrac{15}{2+7+15}=dfrac{15}{24}quad(text{reducible)}$$



I have yet to find any counter-example to the initial statement so I'm pretty certain it must be true. I believe I managed to prove the analogous statement for $2$ integers but I would like to generalize it to $3$, and eventually $n$, integers.





Proof for two integers $a$ and $b$ with no common factors



Suppose $k$ is a factor of $a$ and that $a'$ is an integer such that $a=ka'$. Then:



$$frac{a}{a+b}=frac{ka'}{ka'+b}=frac{ka'}{kleft(a'+dfrac{b}{k}right)}=dfrac{a'}{a'+dfrac{b}{k}}$$



But $k$ is a factor of $a$ and $a$ and $b$ have no common factors by hypothesis, so $k$ does not divide $b$. So $dfrac{b}{k}$ is irreducible. Since $a'$ is an integer and $dfrac{b}{k}$ isn't (assuming $kneq 1$), then $dfrac{a'}{a'+dfrac{b}{k}}$ is not a 'fraction' in the sense that it is not a ratio of two integers, making the original fraction $dfrac{a}{a+b}$ irreducible.



This proves (correct me if I'm wrong) that at least one of the the fractions $dfrac{a}{a+b}$ or $dfrac{b}{a+b}$ is irreducible.





For the case with $3$ integers, a similar argument doesn't seem to work. Taking $(4,5,11)$ as an example:



$$frac{4}{4+5+11}=frac{4}{4left(1+dfrac{5}{4}+dfrac{11}{4}right)}=frac{1}{1+dfrac{16}{4}}=frac{1}{5}$$



the fact that there are now $3$ numbers allows for some fractions to combine into an integer. Because of this, I'm having difficulty proving the statement further.





I'm not particularly good with number theory proofs and I apologize if this is not as elegant as it should be (or worse, if there are mistakes). I'm welcoming any tips and possible improvements. Thanks in advance!










share|cite|improve this question











$endgroup$





Let $a$, $b$ and $c$ be $3$ integers with no common factors.



I conjecture that at least one of the three fractions:



$$frac{a}{a+b+c},quadfrac{b}{a+b+c},quadfrac{c}{a+b+c}$$



is irreducible.




I know that they are not necessarily all irreducible.



For instance, taking $(a,b,c)=(2,7,15)$, it is verified that $2$, $7$ and $15$ have no common factors.



We have $a+b+c=24$ so
$$dfrac{2}{2+7+15}=dfrac{2}{24}quad(text{reducible)}$$
$$dfrac{7}{2+7+15}=dfrac{7}{24}quad(text{irreducible)}$$
$$dfrac{15}{2+7+15}=dfrac{15}{24}quad(text{reducible)}$$



I have yet to find any counter-example to the initial statement so I'm pretty certain it must be true. I believe I managed to prove the analogous statement for $2$ integers but I would like to generalize it to $3$, and eventually $n$, integers.





Proof for two integers $a$ and $b$ with no common factors



Suppose $k$ is a factor of $a$ and that $a'$ is an integer such that $a=ka'$. Then:



$$frac{a}{a+b}=frac{ka'}{ka'+b}=frac{ka'}{kleft(a'+dfrac{b}{k}right)}=dfrac{a'}{a'+dfrac{b}{k}}$$



But $k$ is a factor of $a$ and $a$ and $b$ have no common factors by hypothesis, so $k$ does not divide $b$. So $dfrac{b}{k}$ is irreducible. Since $a'$ is an integer and $dfrac{b}{k}$ isn't (assuming $kneq 1$), then $dfrac{a'}{a'+dfrac{b}{k}}$ is not a 'fraction' in the sense that it is not a ratio of two integers, making the original fraction $dfrac{a}{a+b}$ irreducible.



This proves (correct me if I'm wrong) that at least one of the the fractions $dfrac{a}{a+b}$ or $dfrac{b}{a+b}$ is irreducible.





For the case with $3$ integers, a similar argument doesn't seem to work. Taking $(4,5,11)$ as an example:



$$frac{4}{4+5+11}=frac{4}{4left(1+dfrac{5}{4}+dfrac{11}{4}right)}=frac{1}{1+dfrac{16}{4}}=frac{1}{5}$$



the fact that there are now $3$ numbers allows for some fractions to combine into an integer. Because of this, I'm having difficulty proving the statement further.





I'm not particularly good with number theory proofs and I apologize if this is not as elegant as it should be (or worse, if there are mistakes). I'm welcoming any tips and possible improvements. Thanks in advance!







elementary-number-theory fractions






share|cite|improve this question















share|cite|improve this question













share|cite|improve this question




share|cite|improve this question








edited Dec 7 '18 at 22:57







orion2112

















asked Dec 7 '18 at 22:38









orion2112orion2112

461310




461310












  • $begingroup$
    Suggested edit to title: dividing each by (Slightly clearer, and its not worth me submitting a suggested 1-word edit for review!)
    $endgroup$
    – timtfj
    Dec 7 '18 at 22:49










  • $begingroup$
    I can't edit this myself; 15/24 is not irreducible.
    $endgroup$
    – RandomMathGuy
    Dec 7 '18 at 22:56










  • $begingroup$
    @RandomMathGuy Thanks for pointing that out! (Also clarified the title, thank you timtfj.)
    $endgroup$
    – orion2112
    Dec 7 '18 at 22:59


















  • $begingroup$
    Suggested edit to title: dividing each by (Slightly clearer, and its not worth me submitting a suggested 1-word edit for review!)
    $endgroup$
    – timtfj
    Dec 7 '18 at 22:49










  • $begingroup$
    I can't edit this myself; 15/24 is not irreducible.
    $endgroup$
    – RandomMathGuy
    Dec 7 '18 at 22:56










  • $begingroup$
    @RandomMathGuy Thanks for pointing that out! (Also clarified the title, thank you timtfj.)
    $endgroup$
    – orion2112
    Dec 7 '18 at 22:59
















$begingroup$
Suggested edit to title: dividing each by (Slightly clearer, and its not worth me submitting a suggested 1-word edit for review!)
$endgroup$
– timtfj
Dec 7 '18 at 22:49




$begingroup$
Suggested edit to title: dividing each by (Slightly clearer, and its not worth me submitting a suggested 1-word edit for review!)
$endgroup$
– timtfj
Dec 7 '18 at 22:49












$begingroup$
I can't edit this myself; 15/24 is not irreducible.
$endgroup$
– RandomMathGuy
Dec 7 '18 at 22:56




$begingroup$
I can't edit this myself; 15/24 is not irreducible.
$endgroup$
– RandomMathGuy
Dec 7 '18 at 22:56












$begingroup$
@RandomMathGuy Thanks for pointing that out! (Also clarified the title, thank you timtfj.)
$endgroup$
– orion2112
Dec 7 '18 at 22:59




$begingroup$
@RandomMathGuy Thanks for pointing that out! (Also clarified the title, thank you timtfj.)
$endgroup$
– orion2112
Dec 7 '18 at 22:59










2 Answers
2






active

oldest

votes


















6












$begingroup$

Counterexample: $5,7,58$.
begin{align*}frac{5}{5+7+58} &= frac{5}{70} = frac1{14}\
frac{7}{5+7+58} &= frac{7}{70} = frac1{10}\
frac{58}{5+7+58} &= frac{58}{70} = frac{29}{35}end{align*}



How did I find it? Choose $a$ and $b$ odd and relatively prime, then let $c=2ab-a-b$. This $c$ must be even, which makes $frac{c}{a+b+c}$ reducible.






share|cite|improve this answer









$endgroup$









  • 2




    $begingroup$
    The smallest counterexample is $2,3,25$. An infinite family of counterexamples is $2,3,25+30n$.
    $endgroup$
    – lhf
    Dec 7 '18 at 23:58





















2












$begingroup$

The smallest counterexample is $(2,3,25)$. An infinite family of counterexamples is $(2,3,25+30n)$:
$$
begin{align*}
frac{a}{a+b+c} &= frac{2}{30+30n} = frac{1}{15+15n}
\ frac{b}{a+b+c} &= frac{3}{30+30n} = frac{1}{10+10n}
\ frac{c}{a+b+c} &= frac{25+30n}{30+30n} = frac{5+6n}{6+6n}
end{align*}
$$



There are several other infinite family of counterexamples.






share|cite|improve this answer









$endgroup$













    Your Answer





    StackExchange.ifUsing("editor", function () {
    return StackExchange.using("mathjaxEditing", function () {
    StackExchange.MarkdownEditor.creationCallbacks.add(function (editor, postfix) {
    StackExchange.mathjaxEditing.prepareWmdForMathJax(editor, postfix, [["$", "$"], ["\\(","\\)"]]);
    });
    });
    }, "mathjax-editing");

    StackExchange.ready(function() {
    var channelOptions = {
    tags: "".split(" "),
    id: "69"
    };
    initTagRenderer("".split(" "), "".split(" "), channelOptions);

    StackExchange.using("externalEditor", function() {
    // Have to fire editor after snippets, if snippets enabled
    if (StackExchange.settings.snippets.snippetsEnabled) {
    StackExchange.using("snippets", function() {
    createEditor();
    });
    }
    else {
    createEditor();
    }
    });

    function createEditor() {
    StackExchange.prepareEditor({
    heartbeatType: 'answer',
    autoActivateHeartbeat: false,
    convertImagesToLinks: true,
    noModals: true,
    showLowRepImageUploadWarning: true,
    reputationToPostImages: 10,
    bindNavPrevention: true,
    postfix: "",
    imageUploader: {
    brandingHtml: "Powered by u003ca class="icon-imgur-white" href="https://imgur.com/"u003eu003c/au003e",
    contentPolicyHtml: "User contributions licensed under u003ca href="https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/3.0/"u003ecc by-sa 3.0 with attribution requiredu003c/au003e u003ca href="https://stackoverflow.com/legal/content-policy"u003e(content policy)u003c/au003e",
    allowUrls: true
    },
    noCode: true, onDemand: true,
    discardSelector: ".discard-answer"
    ,immediatelyShowMarkdownHelp:true
    });


    }
    });














    draft saved

    draft discarded


















    StackExchange.ready(
    function () {
    StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2fmath.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f3030448%2fconjecture-if-a-b-and-c-have-no-common-factors-dividing-each-of-them-by%23new-answer', 'question_page');
    }
    );

    Post as a guest















    Required, but never shown

























    2 Answers
    2






    active

    oldest

    votes








    2 Answers
    2






    active

    oldest

    votes









    active

    oldest

    votes






    active

    oldest

    votes









    6












    $begingroup$

    Counterexample: $5,7,58$.
    begin{align*}frac{5}{5+7+58} &= frac{5}{70} = frac1{14}\
    frac{7}{5+7+58} &= frac{7}{70} = frac1{10}\
    frac{58}{5+7+58} &= frac{58}{70} = frac{29}{35}end{align*}



    How did I find it? Choose $a$ and $b$ odd and relatively prime, then let $c=2ab-a-b$. This $c$ must be even, which makes $frac{c}{a+b+c}$ reducible.






    share|cite|improve this answer









    $endgroup$









    • 2




      $begingroup$
      The smallest counterexample is $2,3,25$. An infinite family of counterexamples is $2,3,25+30n$.
      $endgroup$
      – lhf
      Dec 7 '18 at 23:58


















    6












    $begingroup$

    Counterexample: $5,7,58$.
    begin{align*}frac{5}{5+7+58} &= frac{5}{70} = frac1{14}\
    frac{7}{5+7+58} &= frac{7}{70} = frac1{10}\
    frac{58}{5+7+58} &= frac{58}{70} = frac{29}{35}end{align*}



    How did I find it? Choose $a$ and $b$ odd and relatively prime, then let $c=2ab-a-b$. This $c$ must be even, which makes $frac{c}{a+b+c}$ reducible.






    share|cite|improve this answer









    $endgroup$









    • 2




      $begingroup$
      The smallest counterexample is $2,3,25$. An infinite family of counterexamples is $2,3,25+30n$.
      $endgroup$
      – lhf
      Dec 7 '18 at 23:58
















    6












    6








    6





    $begingroup$

    Counterexample: $5,7,58$.
    begin{align*}frac{5}{5+7+58} &= frac{5}{70} = frac1{14}\
    frac{7}{5+7+58} &= frac{7}{70} = frac1{10}\
    frac{58}{5+7+58} &= frac{58}{70} = frac{29}{35}end{align*}



    How did I find it? Choose $a$ and $b$ odd and relatively prime, then let $c=2ab-a-b$. This $c$ must be even, which makes $frac{c}{a+b+c}$ reducible.






    share|cite|improve this answer









    $endgroup$



    Counterexample: $5,7,58$.
    begin{align*}frac{5}{5+7+58} &= frac{5}{70} = frac1{14}\
    frac{7}{5+7+58} &= frac{7}{70} = frac1{10}\
    frac{58}{5+7+58} &= frac{58}{70} = frac{29}{35}end{align*}



    How did I find it? Choose $a$ and $b$ odd and relatively prime, then let $c=2ab-a-b$. This $c$ must be even, which makes $frac{c}{a+b+c}$ reducible.







    share|cite|improve this answer












    share|cite|improve this answer



    share|cite|improve this answer










    answered Dec 7 '18 at 23:32









    jmerryjmerry

    6,067718




    6,067718








    • 2




      $begingroup$
      The smallest counterexample is $2,3,25$. An infinite family of counterexamples is $2,3,25+30n$.
      $endgroup$
      – lhf
      Dec 7 '18 at 23:58
















    • 2




      $begingroup$
      The smallest counterexample is $2,3,25$. An infinite family of counterexamples is $2,3,25+30n$.
      $endgroup$
      – lhf
      Dec 7 '18 at 23:58










    2




    2




    $begingroup$
    The smallest counterexample is $2,3,25$. An infinite family of counterexamples is $2,3,25+30n$.
    $endgroup$
    – lhf
    Dec 7 '18 at 23:58






    $begingroup$
    The smallest counterexample is $2,3,25$. An infinite family of counterexamples is $2,3,25+30n$.
    $endgroup$
    – lhf
    Dec 7 '18 at 23:58













    2












    $begingroup$

    The smallest counterexample is $(2,3,25)$. An infinite family of counterexamples is $(2,3,25+30n)$:
    $$
    begin{align*}
    frac{a}{a+b+c} &= frac{2}{30+30n} = frac{1}{15+15n}
    \ frac{b}{a+b+c} &= frac{3}{30+30n} = frac{1}{10+10n}
    \ frac{c}{a+b+c} &= frac{25+30n}{30+30n} = frac{5+6n}{6+6n}
    end{align*}
    $$



    There are several other infinite family of counterexamples.






    share|cite|improve this answer









    $endgroup$


















      2












      $begingroup$

      The smallest counterexample is $(2,3,25)$. An infinite family of counterexamples is $(2,3,25+30n)$:
      $$
      begin{align*}
      frac{a}{a+b+c} &= frac{2}{30+30n} = frac{1}{15+15n}
      \ frac{b}{a+b+c} &= frac{3}{30+30n} = frac{1}{10+10n}
      \ frac{c}{a+b+c} &= frac{25+30n}{30+30n} = frac{5+6n}{6+6n}
      end{align*}
      $$



      There are several other infinite family of counterexamples.






      share|cite|improve this answer









      $endgroup$
















        2












        2








        2





        $begingroup$

        The smallest counterexample is $(2,3,25)$. An infinite family of counterexamples is $(2,3,25+30n)$:
        $$
        begin{align*}
        frac{a}{a+b+c} &= frac{2}{30+30n} = frac{1}{15+15n}
        \ frac{b}{a+b+c} &= frac{3}{30+30n} = frac{1}{10+10n}
        \ frac{c}{a+b+c} &= frac{25+30n}{30+30n} = frac{5+6n}{6+6n}
        end{align*}
        $$



        There are several other infinite family of counterexamples.






        share|cite|improve this answer









        $endgroup$



        The smallest counterexample is $(2,3,25)$. An infinite family of counterexamples is $(2,3,25+30n)$:
        $$
        begin{align*}
        frac{a}{a+b+c} &= frac{2}{30+30n} = frac{1}{15+15n}
        \ frac{b}{a+b+c} &= frac{3}{30+30n} = frac{1}{10+10n}
        \ frac{c}{a+b+c} &= frac{25+30n}{30+30n} = frac{5+6n}{6+6n}
        end{align*}
        $$



        There are several other infinite family of counterexamples.







        share|cite|improve this answer












        share|cite|improve this answer



        share|cite|improve this answer










        answered Dec 10 '18 at 13:37









        lhflhf

        164k10170395




        164k10170395






























            draft saved

            draft discarded




















































            Thanks for contributing an answer to Mathematics Stack Exchange!


            • Please be sure to answer the question. Provide details and share your research!

            But avoid



            • Asking for help, clarification, or responding to other answers.

            • Making statements based on opinion; back them up with references or personal experience.


            Use MathJax to format equations. MathJax reference.


            To learn more, see our tips on writing great answers.




            draft saved


            draft discarded














            StackExchange.ready(
            function () {
            StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2fmath.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f3030448%2fconjecture-if-a-b-and-c-have-no-common-factors-dividing-each-of-them-by%23new-answer', 'question_page');
            }
            );

            Post as a guest















            Required, but never shown





















































            Required, but never shown














            Required, but never shown












            Required, but never shown







            Required, but never shown

































            Required, but never shown














            Required, but never shown












            Required, but never shown







            Required, but never shown







            Popular posts from this blog

            Probability when a professor distributes a quiz and homework assignment to a class of n students.

            Aardman Animations

            Are they similar matrix