Conjecture: if $a$, $b$ and $c$ have no common factors, dividing each of them by their sum yields at least...












2












$begingroup$



Let $a$, $b$ and $c$ be $3$ integers with no common factors.



I conjecture that at least one of the three fractions:



$$frac{a}{a+b+c},quadfrac{b}{a+b+c},quadfrac{c}{a+b+c}$$



is irreducible.




I know that they are not necessarily all irreducible.



For instance, taking $(a,b,c)=(2,7,15)$, it is verified that $2$, $7$ and $15$ have no common factors.



We have $a+b+c=24$ so
$$dfrac{2}{2+7+15}=dfrac{2}{24}quad(text{reducible)}$$
$$dfrac{7}{2+7+15}=dfrac{7}{24}quad(text{irreducible)}$$
$$dfrac{15}{2+7+15}=dfrac{15}{24}quad(text{reducible)}$$



I have yet to find any counter-example to the initial statement so I'm pretty certain it must be true. I believe I managed to prove the analogous statement for $2$ integers but I would like to generalize it to $3$, and eventually $n$, integers.





Proof for two integers $a$ and $b$ with no common factors



Suppose $k$ is a factor of $a$ and that $a'$ is an integer such that $a=ka'$. Then:



$$frac{a}{a+b}=frac{ka'}{ka'+b}=frac{ka'}{kleft(a'+dfrac{b}{k}right)}=dfrac{a'}{a'+dfrac{b}{k}}$$



But $k$ is a factor of $a$ and $a$ and $b$ have no common factors by hypothesis, so $k$ does not divide $b$. So $dfrac{b}{k}$ is irreducible. Since $a'$ is an integer and $dfrac{b}{k}$ isn't (assuming $kneq 1$), then $dfrac{a'}{a'+dfrac{b}{k}}$ is not a 'fraction' in the sense that it is not a ratio of two integers, making the original fraction $dfrac{a}{a+b}$ irreducible.



This proves (correct me if I'm wrong) that at least one of the the fractions $dfrac{a}{a+b}$ or $dfrac{b}{a+b}$ is irreducible.





For the case with $3$ integers, a similar argument doesn't seem to work. Taking $(4,5,11)$ as an example:



$$frac{4}{4+5+11}=frac{4}{4left(1+dfrac{5}{4}+dfrac{11}{4}right)}=frac{1}{1+dfrac{16}{4}}=frac{1}{5}$$



the fact that there are now $3$ numbers allows for some fractions to combine into an integer. Because of this, I'm having difficulty proving the statement further.





I'm not particularly good with number theory proofs and I apologize if this is not as elegant as it should be (or worse, if there are mistakes). I'm welcoming any tips and possible improvements. Thanks in advance!










share|cite|improve this question











$endgroup$












  • $begingroup$
    Suggested edit to title: dividing each by (Slightly clearer, and its not worth me submitting a suggested 1-word edit for review!)
    $endgroup$
    – timtfj
    Dec 7 '18 at 22:49










  • $begingroup$
    I can't edit this myself; 15/24 is not irreducible.
    $endgroup$
    – RandomMathGuy
    Dec 7 '18 at 22:56










  • $begingroup$
    @RandomMathGuy Thanks for pointing that out! (Also clarified the title, thank you timtfj.)
    $endgroup$
    – orion2112
    Dec 7 '18 at 22:59
















2












$begingroup$



Let $a$, $b$ and $c$ be $3$ integers with no common factors.



I conjecture that at least one of the three fractions:



$$frac{a}{a+b+c},quadfrac{b}{a+b+c},quadfrac{c}{a+b+c}$$



is irreducible.




I know that they are not necessarily all irreducible.



For instance, taking $(a,b,c)=(2,7,15)$, it is verified that $2$, $7$ and $15$ have no common factors.



We have $a+b+c=24$ so
$$dfrac{2}{2+7+15}=dfrac{2}{24}quad(text{reducible)}$$
$$dfrac{7}{2+7+15}=dfrac{7}{24}quad(text{irreducible)}$$
$$dfrac{15}{2+7+15}=dfrac{15}{24}quad(text{reducible)}$$



I have yet to find any counter-example to the initial statement so I'm pretty certain it must be true. I believe I managed to prove the analogous statement for $2$ integers but I would like to generalize it to $3$, and eventually $n$, integers.





Proof for two integers $a$ and $b$ with no common factors



Suppose $k$ is a factor of $a$ and that $a'$ is an integer such that $a=ka'$. Then:



$$frac{a}{a+b}=frac{ka'}{ka'+b}=frac{ka'}{kleft(a'+dfrac{b}{k}right)}=dfrac{a'}{a'+dfrac{b}{k}}$$



But $k$ is a factor of $a$ and $a$ and $b$ have no common factors by hypothesis, so $k$ does not divide $b$. So $dfrac{b}{k}$ is irreducible. Since $a'$ is an integer and $dfrac{b}{k}$ isn't (assuming $kneq 1$), then $dfrac{a'}{a'+dfrac{b}{k}}$ is not a 'fraction' in the sense that it is not a ratio of two integers, making the original fraction $dfrac{a}{a+b}$ irreducible.



This proves (correct me if I'm wrong) that at least one of the the fractions $dfrac{a}{a+b}$ or $dfrac{b}{a+b}$ is irreducible.





For the case with $3$ integers, a similar argument doesn't seem to work. Taking $(4,5,11)$ as an example:



$$frac{4}{4+5+11}=frac{4}{4left(1+dfrac{5}{4}+dfrac{11}{4}right)}=frac{1}{1+dfrac{16}{4}}=frac{1}{5}$$



the fact that there are now $3$ numbers allows for some fractions to combine into an integer. Because of this, I'm having difficulty proving the statement further.





I'm not particularly good with number theory proofs and I apologize if this is not as elegant as it should be (or worse, if there are mistakes). I'm welcoming any tips and possible improvements. Thanks in advance!










share|cite|improve this question











$endgroup$












  • $begingroup$
    Suggested edit to title: dividing each by (Slightly clearer, and its not worth me submitting a suggested 1-word edit for review!)
    $endgroup$
    – timtfj
    Dec 7 '18 at 22:49










  • $begingroup$
    I can't edit this myself; 15/24 is not irreducible.
    $endgroup$
    – RandomMathGuy
    Dec 7 '18 at 22:56










  • $begingroup$
    @RandomMathGuy Thanks for pointing that out! (Also clarified the title, thank you timtfj.)
    $endgroup$
    – orion2112
    Dec 7 '18 at 22:59














2












2








2


0



$begingroup$



Let $a$, $b$ and $c$ be $3$ integers with no common factors.



I conjecture that at least one of the three fractions:



$$frac{a}{a+b+c},quadfrac{b}{a+b+c},quadfrac{c}{a+b+c}$$



is irreducible.




I know that they are not necessarily all irreducible.



For instance, taking $(a,b,c)=(2,7,15)$, it is verified that $2$, $7$ and $15$ have no common factors.



We have $a+b+c=24$ so
$$dfrac{2}{2+7+15}=dfrac{2}{24}quad(text{reducible)}$$
$$dfrac{7}{2+7+15}=dfrac{7}{24}quad(text{irreducible)}$$
$$dfrac{15}{2+7+15}=dfrac{15}{24}quad(text{reducible)}$$



I have yet to find any counter-example to the initial statement so I'm pretty certain it must be true. I believe I managed to prove the analogous statement for $2$ integers but I would like to generalize it to $3$, and eventually $n$, integers.





Proof for two integers $a$ and $b$ with no common factors



Suppose $k$ is a factor of $a$ and that $a'$ is an integer such that $a=ka'$. Then:



$$frac{a}{a+b}=frac{ka'}{ka'+b}=frac{ka'}{kleft(a'+dfrac{b}{k}right)}=dfrac{a'}{a'+dfrac{b}{k}}$$



But $k$ is a factor of $a$ and $a$ and $b$ have no common factors by hypothesis, so $k$ does not divide $b$. So $dfrac{b}{k}$ is irreducible. Since $a'$ is an integer and $dfrac{b}{k}$ isn't (assuming $kneq 1$), then $dfrac{a'}{a'+dfrac{b}{k}}$ is not a 'fraction' in the sense that it is not a ratio of two integers, making the original fraction $dfrac{a}{a+b}$ irreducible.



This proves (correct me if I'm wrong) that at least one of the the fractions $dfrac{a}{a+b}$ or $dfrac{b}{a+b}$ is irreducible.





For the case with $3$ integers, a similar argument doesn't seem to work. Taking $(4,5,11)$ as an example:



$$frac{4}{4+5+11}=frac{4}{4left(1+dfrac{5}{4}+dfrac{11}{4}right)}=frac{1}{1+dfrac{16}{4}}=frac{1}{5}$$



the fact that there are now $3$ numbers allows for some fractions to combine into an integer. Because of this, I'm having difficulty proving the statement further.





I'm not particularly good with number theory proofs and I apologize if this is not as elegant as it should be (or worse, if there are mistakes). I'm welcoming any tips and possible improvements. Thanks in advance!










share|cite|improve this question











$endgroup$





Let $a$, $b$ and $c$ be $3$ integers with no common factors.



I conjecture that at least one of the three fractions:



$$frac{a}{a+b+c},quadfrac{b}{a+b+c},quadfrac{c}{a+b+c}$$



is irreducible.




I know that they are not necessarily all irreducible.



For instance, taking $(a,b,c)=(2,7,15)$, it is verified that $2$, $7$ and $15$ have no common factors.



We have $a+b+c=24$ so
$$dfrac{2}{2+7+15}=dfrac{2}{24}quad(text{reducible)}$$
$$dfrac{7}{2+7+15}=dfrac{7}{24}quad(text{irreducible)}$$
$$dfrac{15}{2+7+15}=dfrac{15}{24}quad(text{reducible)}$$



I have yet to find any counter-example to the initial statement so I'm pretty certain it must be true. I believe I managed to prove the analogous statement for $2$ integers but I would like to generalize it to $3$, and eventually $n$, integers.





Proof for two integers $a$ and $b$ with no common factors



Suppose $k$ is a factor of $a$ and that $a'$ is an integer such that $a=ka'$. Then:



$$frac{a}{a+b}=frac{ka'}{ka'+b}=frac{ka'}{kleft(a'+dfrac{b}{k}right)}=dfrac{a'}{a'+dfrac{b}{k}}$$



But $k$ is a factor of $a$ and $a$ and $b$ have no common factors by hypothesis, so $k$ does not divide $b$. So $dfrac{b}{k}$ is irreducible. Since $a'$ is an integer and $dfrac{b}{k}$ isn't (assuming $kneq 1$), then $dfrac{a'}{a'+dfrac{b}{k}}$ is not a 'fraction' in the sense that it is not a ratio of two integers, making the original fraction $dfrac{a}{a+b}$ irreducible.



This proves (correct me if I'm wrong) that at least one of the the fractions $dfrac{a}{a+b}$ or $dfrac{b}{a+b}$ is irreducible.





For the case with $3$ integers, a similar argument doesn't seem to work. Taking $(4,5,11)$ as an example:



$$frac{4}{4+5+11}=frac{4}{4left(1+dfrac{5}{4}+dfrac{11}{4}right)}=frac{1}{1+dfrac{16}{4}}=frac{1}{5}$$



the fact that there are now $3$ numbers allows for some fractions to combine into an integer. Because of this, I'm having difficulty proving the statement further.





I'm not particularly good with number theory proofs and I apologize if this is not as elegant as it should be (or worse, if there are mistakes). I'm welcoming any tips and possible improvements. Thanks in advance!







elementary-number-theory fractions






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edited Dec 7 '18 at 22:57







orion2112

















asked Dec 7 '18 at 22:38









orion2112orion2112

461310




461310












  • $begingroup$
    Suggested edit to title: dividing each by (Slightly clearer, and its not worth me submitting a suggested 1-word edit for review!)
    $endgroup$
    – timtfj
    Dec 7 '18 at 22:49










  • $begingroup$
    I can't edit this myself; 15/24 is not irreducible.
    $endgroup$
    – RandomMathGuy
    Dec 7 '18 at 22:56










  • $begingroup$
    @RandomMathGuy Thanks for pointing that out! (Also clarified the title, thank you timtfj.)
    $endgroup$
    – orion2112
    Dec 7 '18 at 22:59


















  • $begingroup$
    Suggested edit to title: dividing each by (Slightly clearer, and its not worth me submitting a suggested 1-word edit for review!)
    $endgroup$
    – timtfj
    Dec 7 '18 at 22:49










  • $begingroup$
    I can't edit this myself; 15/24 is not irreducible.
    $endgroup$
    – RandomMathGuy
    Dec 7 '18 at 22:56










  • $begingroup$
    @RandomMathGuy Thanks for pointing that out! (Also clarified the title, thank you timtfj.)
    $endgroup$
    – orion2112
    Dec 7 '18 at 22:59
















$begingroup$
Suggested edit to title: dividing each by (Slightly clearer, and its not worth me submitting a suggested 1-word edit for review!)
$endgroup$
– timtfj
Dec 7 '18 at 22:49




$begingroup$
Suggested edit to title: dividing each by (Slightly clearer, and its not worth me submitting a suggested 1-word edit for review!)
$endgroup$
– timtfj
Dec 7 '18 at 22:49












$begingroup$
I can't edit this myself; 15/24 is not irreducible.
$endgroup$
– RandomMathGuy
Dec 7 '18 at 22:56




$begingroup$
I can't edit this myself; 15/24 is not irreducible.
$endgroup$
– RandomMathGuy
Dec 7 '18 at 22:56












$begingroup$
@RandomMathGuy Thanks for pointing that out! (Also clarified the title, thank you timtfj.)
$endgroup$
– orion2112
Dec 7 '18 at 22:59




$begingroup$
@RandomMathGuy Thanks for pointing that out! (Also clarified the title, thank you timtfj.)
$endgroup$
– orion2112
Dec 7 '18 at 22:59










2 Answers
2






active

oldest

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6












$begingroup$

Counterexample: $5,7,58$.
begin{align*}frac{5}{5+7+58} &= frac{5}{70} = frac1{14}\
frac{7}{5+7+58} &= frac{7}{70} = frac1{10}\
frac{58}{5+7+58} &= frac{58}{70} = frac{29}{35}end{align*}



How did I find it? Choose $a$ and $b$ odd and relatively prime, then let $c=2ab-a-b$. This $c$ must be even, which makes $frac{c}{a+b+c}$ reducible.






share|cite|improve this answer









$endgroup$









  • 2




    $begingroup$
    The smallest counterexample is $2,3,25$. An infinite family of counterexamples is $2,3,25+30n$.
    $endgroup$
    – lhf
    Dec 7 '18 at 23:58





















2












$begingroup$

The smallest counterexample is $(2,3,25)$. An infinite family of counterexamples is $(2,3,25+30n)$:
$$
begin{align*}
frac{a}{a+b+c} &= frac{2}{30+30n} = frac{1}{15+15n}
\ frac{b}{a+b+c} &= frac{3}{30+30n} = frac{1}{10+10n}
\ frac{c}{a+b+c} &= frac{25+30n}{30+30n} = frac{5+6n}{6+6n}
end{align*}
$$



There are several other infinite family of counterexamples.






share|cite|improve this answer









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    2 Answers
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    active

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    2 Answers
    2






    active

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    active

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    6












    $begingroup$

    Counterexample: $5,7,58$.
    begin{align*}frac{5}{5+7+58} &= frac{5}{70} = frac1{14}\
    frac{7}{5+7+58} &= frac{7}{70} = frac1{10}\
    frac{58}{5+7+58} &= frac{58}{70} = frac{29}{35}end{align*}



    How did I find it? Choose $a$ and $b$ odd and relatively prime, then let $c=2ab-a-b$. This $c$ must be even, which makes $frac{c}{a+b+c}$ reducible.






    share|cite|improve this answer









    $endgroup$









    • 2




      $begingroup$
      The smallest counterexample is $2,3,25$. An infinite family of counterexamples is $2,3,25+30n$.
      $endgroup$
      – lhf
      Dec 7 '18 at 23:58


















    6












    $begingroup$

    Counterexample: $5,7,58$.
    begin{align*}frac{5}{5+7+58} &= frac{5}{70} = frac1{14}\
    frac{7}{5+7+58} &= frac{7}{70} = frac1{10}\
    frac{58}{5+7+58} &= frac{58}{70} = frac{29}{35}end{align*}



    How did I find it? Choose $a$ and $b$ odd and relatively prime, then let $c=2ab-a-b$. This $c$ must be even, which makes $frac{c}{a+b+c}$ reducible.






    share|cite|improve this answer









    $endgroup$









    • 2




      $begingroup$
      The smallest counterexample is $2,3,25$. An infinite family of counterexamples is $2,3,25+30n$.
      $endgroup$
      – lhf
      Dec 7 '18 at 23:58
















    6












    6








    6





    $begingroup$

    Counterexample: $5,7,58$.
    begin{align*}frac{5}{5+7+58} &= frac{5}{70} = frac1{14}\
    frac{7}{5+7+58} &= frac{7}{70} = frac1{10}\
    frac{58}{5+7+58} &= frac{58}{70} = frac{29}{35}end{align*}



    How did I find it? Choose $a$ and $b$ odd and relatively prime, then let $c=2ab-a-b$. This $c$ must be even, which makes $frac{c}{a+b+c}$ reducible.






    share|cite|improve this answer









    $endgroup$



    Counterexample: $5,7,58$.
    begin{align*}frac{5}{5+7+58} &= frac{5}{70} = frac1{14}\
    frac{7}{5+7+58} &= frac{7}{70} = frac1{10}\
    frac{58}{5+7+58} &= frac{58}{70} = frac{29}{35}end{align*}



    How did I find it? Choose $a$ and $b$ odd and relatively prime, then let $c=2ab-a-b$. This $c$ must be even, which makes $frac{c}{a+b+c}$ reducible.







    share|cite|improve this answer












    share|cite|improve this answer



    share|cite|improve this answer










    answered Dec 7 '18 at 23:32









    jmerryjmerry

    6,067718




    6,067718








    • 2




      $begingroup$
      The smallest counterexample is $2,3,25$. An infinite family of counterexamples is $2,3,25+30n$.
      $endgroup$
      – lhf
      Dec 7 '18 at 23:58
















    • 2




      $begingroup$
      The smallest counterexample is $2,3,25$. An infinite family of counterexamples is $2,3,25+30n$.
      $endgroup$
      – lhf
      Dec 7 '18 at 23:58










    2




    2




    $begingroup$
    The smallest counterexample is $2,3,25$. An infinite family of counterexamples is $2,3,25+30n$.
    $endgroup$
    – lhf
    Dec 7 '18 at 23:58






    $begingroup$
    The smallest counterexample is $2,3,25$. An infinite family of counterexamples is $2,3,25+30n$.
    $endgroup$
    – lhf
    Dec 7 '18 at 23:58













    2












    $begingroup$

    The smallest counterexample is $(2,3,25)$. An infinite family of counterexamples is $(2,3,25+30n)$:
    $$
    begin{align*}
    frac{a}{a+b+c} &= frac{2}{30+30n} = frac{1}{15+15n}
    \ frac{b}{a+b+c} &= frac{3}{30+30n} = frac{1}{10+10n}
    \ frac{c}{a+b+c} &= frac{25+30n}{30+30n} = frac{5+6n}{6+6n}
    end{align*}
    $$



    There are several other infinite family of counterexamples.






    share|cite|improve this answer









    $endgroup$


















      2












      $begingroup$

      The smallest counterexample is $(2,3,25)$. An infinite family of counterexamples is $(2,3,25+30n)$:
      $$
      begin{align*}
      frac{a}{a+b+c} &= frac{2}{30+30n} = frac{1}{15+15n}
      \ frac{b}{a+b+c} &= frac{3}{30+30n} = frac{1}{10+10n}
      \ frac{c}{a+b+c} &= frac{25+30n}{30+30n} = frac{5+6n}{6+6n}
      end{align*}
      $$



      There are several other infinite family of counterexamples.






      share|cite|improve this answer









      $endgroup$
















        2












        2








        2





        $begingroup$

        The smallest counterexample is $(2,3,25)$. An infinite family of counterexamples is $(2,3,25+30n)$:
        $$
        begin{align*}
        frac{a}{a+b+c} &= frac{2}{30+30n} = frac{1}{15+15n}
        \ frac{b}{a+b+c} &= frac{3}{30+30n} = frac{1}{10+10n}
        \ frac{c}{a+b+c} &= frac{25+30n}{30+30n} = frac{5+6n}{6+6n}
        end{align*}
        $$



        There are several other infinite family of counterexamples.






        share|cite|improve this answer









        $endgroup$



        The smallest counterexample is $(2,3,25)$. An infinite family of counterexamples is $(2,3,25+30n)$:
        $$
        begin{align*}
        frac{a}{a+b+c} &= frac{2}{30+30n} = frac{1}{15+15n}
        \ frac{b}{a+b+c} &= frac{3}{30+30n} = frac{1}{10+10n}
        \ frac{c}{a+b+c} &= frac{25+30n}{30+30n} = frac{5+6n}{6+6n}
        end{align*}
        $$



        There are several other infinite family of counterexamples.







        share|cite|improve this answer












        share|cite|improve this answer



        share|cite|improve this answer










        answered Dec 10 '18 at 13:37









        lhflhf

        164k10170395




        164k10170395






























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