Borel $sigma$-algebra of the order topology $textit{vs.}$ $sigma$-algebra generated by the topological...











up vote
1
down vote

favorite












This is a proof-verification (or more like counterexample-verification) request.



Let $Omega$ be a non-empty set and $geq$ a linear order (a complete, transitive, antisymmetric order) on it. Define
begin{align*}
mathscr Lequiv&;big{{psiinOmega,|,psi<omega},big|,omegainOmegabig},\
mathscr Uequiv&;big{{psiinOmega,|,psi>omega},big|,omegainOmegabig}
end{align*}

to be the family of lower sets and that of upper sets, respectively.



The order topology $tau$ on $Omega$ is the topology which has $mathscr Lcupmathscr U$ as its topological subbasis; it is the coarsest topology according to which all lower and upper sets are open. From this topology, one can generate the Borel $sigma$-algebra $mathscr Bequivsigma(tau)$, which is the smallest $sigma$-algebra according to which sets open according to the order topology are measurable.




My goal is to show that, in general,
begin{align*}
mathscr Bneqsigma(mathscr Lcupmathscr U);tag{$clubsuit$}
end{align*}

that is, the $sigma$-algebra generated by the lower and upper sets is not large enough to give the Borel $sigma$-algebra.




Remark: In some special cases, $mathscr B$ and $sigma(mathscr Lcup mathscr U)$ do coincide—for example, when $Omega=mathbb R$ with the usual order, in which case the order topology is the standard Euclidean topology, whose Borel $sigma$-algebra is well-known to be generated by $mathscr Lcupmathscr U$ (and even by $mathscr L$ alone or by $mathscr U$ alone). More generally, if the order topology $tau$ is second-countable, then $mathscr Lcupmathscr U$ does generate $mathscr B$; the details can be found here. However, as a rule, the two $sigma$-algebras $mathscr B$ and $sigma(mathscr Lcupmathscr U)$ may be different.



In particular, I have the following supposed counterexample in mind. Let $(Omega,geq)$ be the set of countable ordinals. This is a linearly ordered set such that





  • $Omega$ is uncountable; but

  • each lower set in $mathscr L$ is countable; furthermore,

  • every non-empty subset of $Omega$ has a least element with respect to the order $geq$.


The first step is to show that
begin{align*}
sigma(mathscr Lcupmathscr U)=mathscr C,
end{align*}

where $mathscr C$ is the $sigma$-algebra of countable and co-countable sets:
begin{align*}
mathscr Cequiv{AsubseteqOmega,|,text{$A$ is countable or $A^{mathsf c}$ is countable}}.
end{align*}

Clearly, each set in $mathscr L$ is countable and each set in $mathscr U$ is co-countable, so that $sigma(mathscr Lcupmathscr U)subseteqmathscr C$. Conversely, note that for each $omegainOmega$, the singleton ${omega}$ is the intersection of the complement of a set from $mathscr L$ and the complement of another set from $mathscr U$. Therefore, the singletons are in $sigma(mathscr Lcupmathscr U)$, which implies that $mathscr C$ is included in $sigma(mathscr Lcupmathscr U)$.



Therefore, in order to prove ($clubsuit$), it is sufficient to exhibit a set that is open in the order topology (and hence a fortiori Borel measurable) but is neither countable nor co-countable. To this end, define the immediate-successor function $S:OmegatoOmega$ as follows: for each $omegainOmega$, $S(omega)inOmega$ is the (unique) element of $Omega$ such that





  • $S(omega)>omega$; and

  • there exists no $psiinOmega$ such that $S(omega)>psi>omega$.


More formally, $S(omega)$ is the least element of the upper set ${psiinOmega,|,psi>omega}$.



It is easily seen that for each $omegainOmega$, one has
begin{align*}
{S(omega)}={psiinOmega,|,psi<S(S(omega))}cap{psiinOmega,|,psi>omega},
end{align*}

so that the set
begin{align*}
Uequiv S(Omega)=bigcup_{omegainOmega}{S(omega)}
end{align*}

is open in the order topology. What is more, since $U$ is a union of open singletons, any subset of $U$ is open, too. In addition, the function $S$ is injective, so that $U$ is uncountable. Therefore, $U$ can be partitioned into two disjoint uncountable subsets, say $V$ and $W$. Hence, $V$ is an uncountable open set and since $Wsubseteq V^{mathsf c}$, the complement of $V$ is also uncountable. It follows that $Vnotinsigma(mathscr Lcupmathscr U)$. This observation concludes the construction of the desired counterexample.



Any comments and suggestions are greatly appreciated.










share|cite|improve this question
























  • You could stop with $U=S(Omega)$ because $U$ is neither countable nor co-countable.
    – bof
    Nov 19 at 6:14












  • @bof Thank you, I corrected the misplaced terminology. I couldn’t prove that $U^{textsf c}$ (the set of limit ordinals) is not countable because I am not familiar with cardinal/ordinal arithmetic, so I took a small detour.
    – triple_sec
    Nov 19 at 6:56

















up vote
1
down vote

favorite












This is a proof-verification (or more like counterexample-verification) request.



Let $Omega$ be a non-empty set and $geq$ a linear order (a complete, transitive, antisymmetric order) on it. Define
begin{align*}
mathscr Lequiv&;big{{psiinOmega,|,psi<omega},big|,omegainOmegabig},\
mathscr Uequiv&;big{{psiinOmega,|,psi>omega},big|,omegainOmegabig}
end{align*}

to be the family of lower sets and that of upper sets, respectively.



The order topology $tau$ on $Omega$ is the topology which has $mathscr Lcupmathscr U$ as its topological subbasis; it is the coarsest topology according to which all lower and upper sets are open. From this topology, one can generate the Borel $sigma$-algebra $mathscr Bequivsigma(tau)$, which is the smallest $sigma$-algebra according to which sets open according to the order topology are measurable.




My goal is to show that, in general,
begin{align*}
mathscr Bneqsigma(mathscr Lcupmathscr U);tag{$clubsuit$}
end{align*}

that is, the $sigma$-algebra generated by the lower and upper sets is not large enough to give the Borel $sigma$-algebra.




Remark: In some special cases, $mathscr B$ and $sigma(mathscr Lcup mathscr U)$ do coincide—for example, when $Omega=mathbb R$ with the usual order, in which case the order topology is the standard Euclidean topology, whose Borel $sigma$-algebra is well-known to be generated by $mathscr Lcupmathscr U$ (and even by $mathscr L$ alone or by $mathscr U$ alone). More generally, if the order topology $tau$ is second-countable, then $mathscr Lcupmathscr U$ does generate $mathscr B$; the details can be found here. However, as a rule, the two $sigma$-algebras $mathscr B$ and $sigma(mathscr Lcupmathscr U)$ may be different.



In particular, I have the following supposed counterexample in mind. Let $(Omega,geq)$ be the set of countable ordinals. This is a linearly ordered set such that





  • $Omega$ is uncountable; but

  • each lower set in $mathscr L$ is countable; furthermore,

  • every non-empty subset of $Omega$ has a least element with respect to the order $geq$.


The first step is to show that
begin{align*}
sigma(mathscr Lcupmathscr U)=mathscr C,
end{align*}

where $mathscr C$ is the $sigma$-algebra of countable and co-countable sets:
begin{align*}
mathscr Cequiv{AsubseteqOmega,|,text{$A$ is countable or $A^{mathsf c}$ is countable}}.
end{align*}

Clearly, each set in $mathscr L$ is countable and each set in $mathscr U$ is co-countable, so that $sigma(mathscr Lcupmathscr U)subseteqmathscr C$. Conversely, note that for each $omegainOmega$, the singleton ${omega}$ is the intersection of the complement of a set from $mathscr L$ and the complement of another set from $mathscr U$. Therefore, the singletons are in $sigma(mathscr Lcupmathscr U)$, which implies that $mathscr C$ is included in $sigma(mathscr Lcupmathscr U)$.



Therefore, in order to prove ($clubsuit$), it is sufficient to exhibit a set that is open in the order topology (and hence a fortiori Borel measurable) but is neither countable nor co-countable. To this end, define the immediate-successor function $S:OmegatoOmega$ as follows: for each $omegainOmega$, $S(omega)inOmega$ is the (unique) element of $Omega$ such that





  • $S(omega)>omega$; and

  • there exists no $psiinOmega$ such that $S(omega)>psi>omega$.


More formally, $S(omega)$ is the least element of the upper set ${psiinOmega,|,psi>omega}$.



It is easily seen that for each $omegainOmega$, one has
begin{align*}
{S(omega)}={psiinOmega,|,psi<S(S(omega))}cap{psiinOmega,|,psi>omega},
end{align*}

so that the set
begin{align*}
Uequiv S(Omega)=bigcup_{omegainOmega}{S(omega)}
end{align*}

is open in the order topology. What is more, since $U$ is a union of open singletons, any subset of $U$ is open, too. In addition, the function $S$ is injective, so that $U$ is uncountable. Therefore, $U$ can be partitioned into two disjoint uncountable subsets, say $V$ and $W$. Hence, $V$ is an uncountable open set and since $Wsubseteq V^{mathsf c}$, the complement of $V$ is also uncountable. It follows that $Vnotinsigma(mathscr Lcupmathscr U)$. This observation concludes the construction of the desired counterexample.



Any comments and suggestions are greatly appreciated.










share|cite|improve this question
























  • You could stop with $U=S(Omega)$ because $U$ is neither countable nor co-countable.
    – bof
    Nov 19 at 6:14












  • @bof Thank you, I corrected the misplaced terminology. I couldn’t prove that $U^{textsf c}$ (the set of limit ordinals) is not countable because I am not familiar with cardinal/ordinal arithmetic, so I took a small detour.
    – triple_sec
    Nov 19 at 6:56















up vote
1
down vote

favorite









up vote
1
down vote

favorite











This is a proof-verification (or more like counterexample-verification) request.



Let $Omega$ be a non-empty set and $geq$ a linear order (a complete, transitive, antisymmetric order) on it. Define
begin{align*}
mathscr Lequiv&;big{{psiinOmega,|,psi<omega},big|,omegainOmegabig},\
mathscr Uequiv&;big{{psiinOmega,|,psi>omega},big|,omegainOmegabig}
end{align*}

to be the family of lower sets and that of upper sets, respectively.



The order topology $tau$ on $Omega$ is the topology which has $mathscr Lcupmathscr U$ as its topological subbasis; it is the coarsest topology according to which all lower and upper sets are open. From this topology, one can generate the Borel $sigma$-algebra $mathscr Bequivsigma(tau)$, which is the smallest $sigma$-algebra according to which sets open according to the order topology are measurable.




My goal is to show that, in general,
begin{align*}
mathscr Bneqsigma(mathscr Lcupmathscr U);tag{$clubsuit$}
end{align*}

that is, the $sigma$-algebra generated by the lower and upper sets is not large enough to give the Borel $sigma$-algebra.




Remark: In some special cases, $mathscr B$ and $sigma(mathscr Lcup mathscr U)$ do coincide—for example, when $Omega=mathbb R$ with the usual order, in which case the order topology is the standard Euclidean topology, whose Borel $sigma$-algebra is well-known to be generated by $mathscr Lcupmathscr U$ (and even by $mathscr L$ alone or by $mathscr U$ alone). More generally, if the order topology $tau$ is second-countable, then $mathscr Lcupmathscr U$ does generate $mathscr B$; the details can be found here. However, as a rule, the two $sigma$-algebras $mathscr B$ and $sigma(mathscr Lcupmathscr U)$ may be different.



In particular, I have the following supposed counterexample in mind. Let $(Omega,geq)$ be the set of countable ordinals. This is a linearly ordered set such that





  • $Omega$ is uncountable; but

  • each lower set in $mathscr L$ is countable; furthermore,

  • every non-empty subset of $Omega$ has a least element with respect to the order $geq$.


The first step is to show that
begin{align*}
sigma(mathscr Lcupmathscr U)=mathscr C,
end{align*}

where $mathscr C$ is the $sigma$-algebra of countable and co-countable sets:
begin{align*}
mathscr Cequiv{AsubseteqOmega,|,text{$A$ is countable or $A^{mathsf c}$ is countable}}.
end{align*}

Clearly, each set in $mathscr L$ is countable and each set in $mathscr U$ is co-countable, so that $sigma(mathscr Lcupmathscr U)subseteqmathscr C$. Conversely, note that for each $omegainOmega$, the singleton ${omega}$ is the intersection of the complement of a set from $mathscr L$ and the complement of another set from $mathscr U$. Therefore, the singletons are in $sigma(mathscr Lcupmathscr U)$, which implies that $mathscr C$ is included in $sigma(mathscr Lcupmathscr U)$.



Therefore, in order to prove ($clubsuit$), it is sufficient to exhibit a set that is open in the order topology (and hence a fortiori Borel measurable) but is neither countable nor co-countable. To this end, define the immediate-successor function $S:OmegatoOmega$ as follows: for each $omegainOmega$, $S(omega)inOmega$ is the (unique) element of $Omega$ such that





  • $S(omega)>omega$; and

  • there exists no $psiinOmega$ such that $S(omega)>psi>omega$.


More formally, $S(omega)$ is the least element of the upper set ${psiinOmega,|,psi>omega}$.



It is easily seen that for each $omegainOmega$, one has
begin{align*}
{S(omega)}={psiinOmega,|,psi<S(S(omega))}cap{psiinOmega,|,psi>omega},
end{align*}

so that the set
begin{align*}
Uequiv S(Omega)=bigcup_{omegainOmega}{S(omega)}
end{align*}

is open in the order topology. What is more, since $U$ is a union of open singletons, any subset of $U$ is open, too. In addition, the function $S$ is injective, so that $U$ is uncountable. Therefore, $U$ can be partitioned into two disjoint uncountable subsets, say $V$ and $W$. Hence, $V$ is an uncountable open set and since $Wsubseteq V^{mathsf c}$, the complement of $V$ is also uncountable. It follows that $Vnotinsigma(mathscr Lcupmathscr U)$. This observation concludes the construction of the desired counterexample.



Any comments and suggestions are greatly appreciated.










share|cite|improve this question















This is a proof-verification (or more like counterexample-verification) request.



Let $Omega$ be a non-empty set and $geq$ a linear order (a complete, transitive, antisymmetric order) on it. Define
begin{align*}
mathscr Lequiv&;big{{psiinOmega,|,psi<omega},big|,omegainOmegabig},\
mathscr Uequiv&;big{{psiinOmega,|,psi>omega},big|,omegainOmegabig}
end{align*}

to be the family of lower sets and that of upper sets, respectively.



The order topology $tau$ on $Omega$ is the topology which has $mathscr Lcupmathscr U$ as its topological subbasis; it is the coarsest topology according to which all lower and upper sets are open. From this topology, one can generate the Borel $sigma$-algebra $mathscr Bequivsigma(tau)$, which is the smallest $sigma$-algebra according to which sets open according to the order topology are measurable.




My goal is to show that, in general,
begin{align*}
mathscr Bneqsigma(mathscr Lcupmathscr U);tag{$clubsuit$}
end{align*}

that is, the $sigma$-algebra generated by the lower and upper sets is not large enough to give the Borel $sigma$-algebra.




Remark: In some special cases, $mathscr B$ and $sigma(mathscr Lcup mathscr U)$ do coincide—for example, when $Omega=mathbb R$ with the usual order, in which case the order topology is the standard Euclidean topology, whose Borel $sigma$-algebra is well-known to be generated by $mathscr Lcupmathscr U$ (and even by $mathscr L$ alone or by $mathscr U$ alone). More generally, if the order topology $tau$ is second-countable, then $mathscr Lcupmathscr U$ does generate $mathscr B$; the details can be found here. However, as a rule, the two $sigma$-algebras $mathscr B$ and $sigma(mathscr Lcupmathscr U)$ may be different.



In particular, I have the following supposed counterexample in mind. Let $(Omega,geq)$ be the set of countable ordinals. This is a linearly ordered set such that





  • $Omega$ is uncountable; but

  • each lower set in $mathscr L$ is countable; furthermore,

  • every non-empty subset of $Omega$ has a least element with respect to the order $geq$.


The first step is to show that
begin{align*}
sigma(mathscr Lcupmathscr U)=mathscr C,
end{align*}

where $mathscr C$ is the $sigma$-algebra of countable and co-countable sets:
begin{align*}
mathscr Cequiv{AsubseteqOmega,|,text{$A$ is countable or $A^{mathsf c}$ is countable}}.
end{align*}

Clearly, each set in $mathscr L$ is countable and each set in $mathscr U$ is co-countable, so that $sigma(mathscr Lcupmathscr U)subseteqmathscr C$. Conversely, note that for each $omegainOmega$, the singleton ${omega}$ is the intersection of the complement of a set from $mathscr L$ and the complement of another set from $mathscr U$. Therefore, the singletons are in $sigma(mathscr Lcupmathscr U)$, which implies that $mathscr C$ is included in $sigma(mathscr Lcupmathscr U)$.



Therefore, in order to prove ($clubsuit$), it is sufficient to exhibit a set that is open in the order topology (and hence a fortiori Borel measurable) but is neither countable nor co-countable. To this end, define the immediate-successor function $S:OmegatoOmega$ as follows: for each $omegainOmega$, $S(omega)inOmega$ is the (unique) element of $Omega$ such that





  • $S(omega)>omega$; and

  • there exists no $psiinOmega$ such that $S(omega)>psi>omega$.


More formally, $S(omega)$ is the least element of the upper set ${psiinOmega,|,psi>omega}$.



It is easily seen that for each $omegainOmega$, one has
begin{align*}
{S(omega)}={psiinOmega,|,psi<S(S(omega))}cap{psiinOmega,|,psi>omega},
end{align*}

so that the set
begin{align*}
Uequiv S(Omega)=bigcup_{omegainOmega}{S(omega)}
end{align*}

is open in the order topology. What is more, since $U$ is a union of open singletons, any subset of $U$ is open, too. In addition, the function $S$ is injective, so that $U$ is uncountable. Therefore, $U$ can be partitioned into two disjoint uncountable subsets, say $V$ and $W$. Hence, $V$ is an uncountable open set and since $Wsubseteq V^{mathsf c}$, the complement of $V$ is also uncountable. It follows that $Vnotinsigma(mathscr Lcupmathscr U)$. This observation concludes the construction of the desired counterexample.



Any comments and suggestions are greatly appreciated.







general-topology measure-theory proof-verification order-theory






share|cite|improve this question















share|cite|improve this question













share|cite|improve this question




share|cite|improve this question








edited Nov 19 at 6:46

























asked Nov 19 at 0:44









triple_sec

15.7k21850




15.7k21850












  • You could stop with $U=S(Omega)$ because $U$ is neither countable nor co-countable.
    – bof
    Nov 19 at 6:14












  • @bof Thank you, I corrected the misplaced terminology. I couldn’t prove that $U^{textsf c}$ (the set of limit ordinals) is not countable because I am not familiar with cardinal/ordinal arithmetic, so I took a small detour.
    – triple_sec
    Nov 19 at 6:56




















  • You could stop with $U=S(Omega)$ because $U$ is neither countable nor co-countable.
    – bof
    Nov 19 at 6:14












  • @bof Thank you, I corrected the misplaced terminology. I couldn’t prove that $U^{textsf c}$ (the set of limit ordinals) is not countable because I am not familiar with cardinal/ordinal arithmetic, so I took a small detour.
    – triple_sec
    Nov 19 at 6:56


















You could stop with $U=S(Omega)$ because $U$ is neither countable nor co-countable.
– bof
Nov 19 at 6:14






You could stop with $U=S(Omega)$ because $U$ is neither countable nor co-countable.
– bof
Nov 19 at 6:14














@bof Thank you, I corrected the misplaced terminology. I couldn’t prove that $U^{textsf c}$ (the set of limit ordinals) is not countable because I am not familiar with cardinal/ordinal arithmetic, so I took a small detour.
– triple_sec
Nov 19 at 6:56






@bof Thank you, I corrected the misplaced terminology. I couldn’t prove that $U^{textsf c}$ (the set of limit ordinals) is not countable because I am not familiar with cardinal/ordinal arithmetic, so I took a small detour.
– triple_sec
Nov 19 at 6:56

















active

oldest

votes











Your Answer





StackExchange.ifUsing("editor", function () {
return StackExchange.using("mathjaxEditing", function () {
StackExchange.MarkdownEditor.creationCallbacks.add(function (editor, postfix) {
StackExchange.mathjaxEditing.prepareWmdForMathJax(editor, postfix, [["$", "$"], ["\\(","\\)"]]);
});
});
}, "mathjax-editing");

StackExchange.ready(function() {
var channelOptions = {
tags: "".split(" "),
id: "69"
};
initTagRenderer("".split(" "), "".split(" "), channelOptions);

StackExchange.using("externalEditor", function() {
// Have to fire editor after snippets, if snippets enabled
if (StackExchange.settings.snippets.snippetsEnabled) {
StackExchange.using("snippets", function() {
createEditor();
});
}
else {
createEditor();
}
});

function createEditor() {
StackExchange.prepareEditor({
heartbeatType: 'answer',
convertImagesToLinks: true,
noModals: true,
showLowRepImageUploadWarning: true,
reputationToPostImages: 10,
bindNavPrevention: true,
postfix: "",
imageUploader: {
brandingHtml: "Powered by u003ca class="icon-imgur-white" href="https://imgur.com/"u003eu003c/au003e",
contentPolicyHtml: "User contributions licensed under u003ca href="https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/3.0/"u003ecc by-sa 3.0 with attribution requiredu003c/au003e u003ca href="https://stackoverflow.com/legal/content-policy"u003e(content policy)u003c/au003e",
allowUrls: true
},
noCode: true, onDemand: true,
discardSelector: ".discard-answer"
,immediatelyShowMarkdownHelp:true
});


}
});














draft saved

draft discarded


















StackExchange.ready(
function () {
StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2fmath.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f3004350%2fborel-sigma-algebra-of-the-order-topology-textitvs-sigma-algebra-gen%23new-answer', 'question_page');
}
);

Post as a guest















Required, but never shown






























active

oldest

votes













active

oldest

votes









active

oldest

votes






active

oldest

votes
















draft saved

draft discarded




















































Thanks for contributing an answer to Mathematics Stack Exchange!


  • Please be sure to answer the question. Provide details and share your research!

But avoid



  • Asking for help, clarification, or responding to other answers.

  • Making statements based on opinion; back them up with references or personal experience.


Use MathJax to format equations. MathJax reference.


To learn more, see our tips on writing great answers.





Some of your past answers have not been well-received, and you're in danger of being blocked from answering.


Please pay close attention to the following guidance:


  • Please be sure to answer the question. Provide details and share your research!

But avoid



  • Asking for help, clarification, or responding to other answers.

  • Making statements based on opinion; back them up with references or personal experience.


To learn more, see our tips on writing great answers.




draft saved


draft discarded














StackExchange.ready(
function () {
StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2fmath.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f3004350%2fborel-sigma-algebra-of-the-order-topology-textitvs-sigma-algebra-gen%23new-answer', 'question_page');
}
);

Post as a guest















Required, but never shown





















































Required, but never shown














Required, but never shown












Required, but never shown







Required, but never shown

































Required, but never shown














Required, but never shown












Required, but never shown







Required, but never shown







Popular posts from this blog

Probability when a professor distributes a quiz and homework assignment to a class of n students.

Aardman Animations

Are they similar matrix