How to prove that $(-18+sqrt{325})^{frac{1}{3}}+(-18-sqrt{325})^{frac{1}{3}} = 3$
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4
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How to prove that $left(-18+sqrt{325}right)^{frac{1}{3}}+left(-18-sqrt{325}right)^{frac{1}{3}} = 3$ in a direct way ?
I have found one indirect way to do so: Define $t=left(-18+sqrt{325}right)^{frac{1}{3}}+left(-18-sqrt{325}right)^{frac{1}{3}}$, and then observe $t$ is a root of $f(x) = x^3 + 3x - 36 = 0$. Also observe that $f(3) = 0$. Now $f(x)$ has only one real root, since $f'(x) = x^2+3$ has no real solution. So $t =3$, as desired.
But I couldn't find any direct/algebraic way of fiddling it for a while. I guess morever this is true: $left(-frac{t(t^2+3)}{2}+sqrt{left[frac{t(t^2+3)}{2}right]^2 + 1}right)^{frac{1}{3}}+left(-frac{t(t^2+3)}{2}-sqrt{left[frac{t(t^2+3)}{2}right]^2 + 1}right)^{frac{1}{3}} = t$, which can possibly be proved in the same indirect way but I don't know how to prove this by direct manipulation.
One way maybe is to write $z_+ = left(-frac{t(t^2+3)}{2}+sqrt{left[frac{t(t^2+3)}{2}right]^2 + 1}right)^{frac{1}{3}}$, $z_- = left(-frac{t(t^2+3)}{2}-sqrt{left[frac{t(t^2+3)}{2}right]^2 + 1}right)^{frac{1}{3}}$, and writing $t = z_+ + z_-$, observe $z_+z_- = -1$, so $(x-z_+)(x-z_-) = x^2 - tx -1$, and then with Fundamental Theorem of Symmetric Polynomials, maybe calculating $(z_+^3 - z_-^3)^2$ and $(z_+^3 + z_-^3)$ in terms of $t$ would help ?
abstract-algebra polynomials galois-theory
|
show 2 more comments
up vote
4
down vote
favorite
How to prove that $left(-18+sqrt{325}right)^{frac{1}{3}}+left(-18-sqrt{325}right)^{frac{1}{3}} = 3$ in a direct way ?
I have found one indirect way to do so: Define $t=left(-18+sqrt{325}right)^{frac{1}{3}}+left(-18-sqrt{325}right)^{frac{1}{3}}$, and then observe $t$ is a root of $f(x) = x^3 + 3x - 36 = 0$. Also observe that $f(3) = 0$. Now $f(x)$ has only one real root, since $f'(x) = x^2+3$ has no real solution. So $t =3$, as desired.
But I couldn't find any direct/algebraic way of fiddling it for a while. I guess morever this is true: $left(-frac{t(t^2+3)}{2}+sqrt{left[frac{t(t^2+3)}{2}right]^2 + 1}right)^{frac{1}{3}}+left(-frac{t(t^2+3)}{2}-sqrt{left[frac{t(t^2+3)}{2}right]^2 + 1}right)^{frac{1}{3}} = t$, which can possibly be proved in the same indirect way but I don't know how to prove this by direct manipulation.
One way maybe is to write $z_+ = left(-frac{t(t^2+3)}{2}+sqrt{left[frac{t(t^2+3)}{2}right]^2 + 1}right)^{frac{1}{3}}$, $z_- = left(-frac{t(t^2+3)}{2}-sqrt{left[frac{t(t^2+3)}{2}right]^2 + 1}right)^{frac{1}{3}}$, and writing $t = z_+ + z_-$, observe $z_+z_- = -1$, so $(x-z_+)(x-z_-) = x^2 - tx -1$, and then with Fundamental Theorem of Symmetric Polynomials, maybe calculating $(z_+^3 - z_-^3)^2$ and $(z_+^3 + z_-^3)$ in terms of $t$ would help ?
abstract-algebra polynomials galois-theory
3
Is it written correctly, because as written, it is not true - see wolframalpha.com/input/…
– Moo
Nov 24 at 5:45
2
@Moo you can useSurd
orCubeRoot
function. W|A has a different understanding of $(-x)^{1/3}$. Also, OP updated the numbers.
– Kemono Chen
Nov 24 at 5:50
1
Mathematica inputCubeRoot[Sqrt[325] - 18] + CubeRoot[-Sqrt[325] - 18] // FullSimplify
shows the result is $-3$.
– Kemono Chen
Nov 24 at 5:53
2
As it is currently written, the LHS equals $-3$, not $3$. This is easily seen by noting that $18^2 = 324$, thus $sqrt{325}$ is only slightly more than $18$, whereas $-18 - sqrt{325} approx -36$.
– heropup
Nov 24 at 5:54
1
Your LHS looks negative to me.
– Lord Shark the Unknown
Nov 24 at 5:55
|
show 2 more comments
up vote
4
down vote
favorite
up vote
4
down vote
favorite
How to prove that $left(-18+sqrt{325}right)^{frac{1}{3}}+left(-18-sqrt{325}right)^{frac{1}{3}} = 3$ in a direct way ?
I have found one indirect way to do so: Define $t=left(-18+sqrt{325}right)^{frac{1}{3}}+left(-18-sqrt{325}right)^{frac{1}{3}}$, and then observe $t$ is a root of $f(x) = x^3 + 3x - 36 = 0$. Also observe that $f(3) = 0$. Now $f(x)$ has only one real root, since $f'(x) = x^2+3$ has no real solution. So $t =3$, as desired.
But I couldn't find any direct/algebraic way of fiddling it for a while. I guess morever this is true: $left(-frac{t(t^2+3)}{2}+sqrt{left[frac{t(t^2+3)}{2}right]^2 + 1}right)^{frac{1}{3}}+left(-frac{t(t^2+3)}{2}-sqrt{left[frac{t(t^2+3)}{2}right]^2 + 1}right)^{frac{1}{3}} = t$, which can possibly be proved in the same indirect way but I don't know how to prove this by direct manipulation.
One way maybe is to write $z_+ = left(-frac{t(t^2+3)}{2}+sqrt{left[frac{t(t^2+3)}{2}right]^2 + 1}right)^{frac{1}{3}}$, $z_- = left(-frac{t(t^2+3)}{2}-sqrt{left[frac{t(t^2+3)}{2}right]^2 + 1}right)^{frac{1}{3}}$, and writing $t = z_+ + z_-$, observe $z_+z_- = -1$, so $(x-z_+)(x-z_-) = x^2 - tx -1$, and then with Fundamental Theorem of Symmetric Polynomials, maybe calculating $(z_+^3 - z_-^3)^2$ and $(z_+^3 + z_-^3)$ in terms of $t$ would help ?
abstract-algebra polynomials galois-theory
How to prove that $left(-18+sqrt{325}right)^{frac{1}{3}}+left(-18-sqrt{325}right)^{frac{1}{3}} = 3$ in a direct way ?
I have found one indirect way to do so: Define $t=left(-18+sqrt{325}right)^{frac{1}{3}}+left(-18-sqrt{325}right)^{frac{1}{3}}$, and then observe $t$ is a root of $f(x) = x^3 + 3x - 36 = 0$. Also observe that $f(3) = 0$. Now $f(x)$ has only one real root, since $f'(x) = x^2+3$ has no real solution. So $t =3$, as desired.
But I couldn't find any direct/algebraic way of fiddling it for a while. I guess morever this is true: $left(-frac{t(t^2+3)}{2}+sqrt{left[frac{t(t^2+3)}{2}right]^2 + 1}right)^{frac{1}{3}}+left(-frac{t(t^2+3)}{2}-sqrt{left[frac{t(t^2+3)}{2}right]^2 + 1}right)^{frac{1}{3}} = t$, which can possibly be proved in the same indirect way but I don't know how to prove this by direct manipulation.
One way maybe is to write $z_+ = left(-frac{t(t^2+3)}{2}+sqrt{left[frac{t(t^2+3)}{2}right]^2 + 1}right)^{frac{1}{3}}$, $z_- = left(-frac{t(t^2+3)}{2}-sqrt{left[frac{t(t^2+3)}{2}right]^2 + 1}right)^{frac{1}{3}}$, and writing $t = z_+ + z_-$, observe $z_+z_- = -1$, so $(x-z_+)(x-z_-) = x^2 - tx -1$, and then with Fundamental Theorem of Symmetric Polynomials, maybe calculating $(z_+^3 - z_-^3)^2$ and $(z_+^3 + z_-^3)$ in terms of $t$ would help ?
abstract-algebra polynomials galois-theory
abstract-algebra polynomials galois-theory
edited Nov 24 at 7:16
Robert Howard
1,9181822
1,9181822
asked Nov 24 at 5:40
alxchen
521421
521421
3
Is it written correctly, because as written, it is not true - see wolframalpha.com/input/…
– Moo
Nov 24 at 5:45
2
@Moo you can useSurd
orCubeRoot
function. W|A has a different understanding of $(-x)^{1/3}$. Also, OP updated the numbers.
– Kemono Chen
Nov 24 at 5:50
1
Mathematica inputCubeRoot[Sqrt[325] - 18] + CubeRoot[-Sqrt[325] - 18] // FullSimplify
shows the result is $-3$.
– Kemono Chen
Nov 24 at 5:53
2
As it is currently written, the LHS equals $-3$, not $3$. This is easily seen by noting that $18^2 = 324$, thus $sqrt{325}$ is only slightly more than $18$, whereas $-18 - sqrt{325} approx -36$.
– heropup
Nov 24 at 5:54
1
Your LHS looks negative to me.
– Lord Shark the Unknown
Nov 24 at 5:55
|
show 2 more comments
3
Is it written correctly, because as written, it is not true - see wolframalpha.com/input/…
– Moo
Nov 24 at 5:45
2
@Moo you can useSurd
orCubeRoot
function. W|A has a different understanding of $(-x)^{1/3}$. Also, OP updated the numbers.
– Kemono Chen
Nov 24 at 5:50
1
Mathematica inputCubeRoot[Sqrt[325] - 18] + CubeRoot[-Sqrt[325] - 18] // FullSimplify
shows the result is $-3$.
– Kemono Chen
Nov 24 at 5:53
2
As it is currently written, the LHS equals $-3$, not $3$. This is easily seen by noting that $18^2 = 324$, thus $sqrt{325}$ is only slightly more than $18$, whereas $-18 - sqrt{325} approx -36$.
– heropup
Nov 24 at 5:54
1
Your LHS looks negative to me.
– Lord Shark the Unknown
Nov 24 at 5:55
3
3
Is it written correctly, because as written, it is not true - see wolframalpha.com/input/…
– Moo
Nov 24 at 5:45
Is it written correctly, because as written, it is not true - see wolframalpha.com/input/…
– Moo
Nov 24 at 5:45
2
2
@Moo you can use
Surd
or CubeRoot
function. W|A has a different understanding of $(-x)^{1/3}$. Also, OP updated the numbers.– Kemono Chen
Nov 24 at 5:50
@Moo you can use
Surd
or CubeRoot
function. W|A has a different understanding of $(-x)^{1/3}$. Also, OP updated the numbers.– Kemono Chen
Nov 24 at 5:50
1
1
Mathematica input
CubeRoot[Sqrt[325] - 18] + CubeRoot[-Sqrt[325] - 18] // FullSimplify
shows the result is $-3$.– Kemono Chen
Nov 24 at 5:53
Mathematica input
CubeRoot[Sqrt[325] - 18] + CubeRoot[-Sqrt[325] - 18] // FullSimplify
shows the result is $-3$.– Kemono Chen
Nov 24 at 5:53
2
2
As it is currently written, the LHS equals $-3$, not $3$. This is easily seen by noting that $18^2 = 324$, thus $sqrt{325}$ is only slightly more than $18$, whereas $-18 - sqrt{325} approx -36$.
– heropup
Nov 24 at 5:54
As it is currently written, the LHS equals $-3$, not $3$. This is easily seen by noting that $18^2 = 324$, thus $sqrt{325}$ is only slightly more than $18$, whereas $-18 - sqrt{325} approx -36$.
– heropup
Nov 24 at 5:54
1
1
Your LHS looks negative to me.
– Lord Shark the Unknown
Nov 24 at 5:55
Your LHS looks negative to me.
– Lord Shark the Unknown
Nov 24 at 5:55
|
show 2 more comments
3 Answers
3
active
oldest
votes
up vote
2
down vote
accepted
Compute
$$left(frac{3+sqrt{13}}2right)^3=18+5sqrt{13}.$$
Therefore
$$sqrt[3]{18+5sqrt{13}}=frac{3+sqrt{13}}2.$$
Similarly
$$sqrt[3]{pm 18pm 5sqrt{13}}=frac{pm 3pmsqrt{13}}2$$
where the signs on both sides correspond. Then
$$sqrt[3]{-18+ 5sqrt{13}}-sqrt[3]{-18-5sqrt{13}}
=frac{-3+sqrt{13}}2+frac{-3-sqrt{13}}2=-3.$$
2
How did you find the identity $(3+sqrt{13})^3 = 8(18 + 5 sqrt{13})$ a priori ? In particular, how one is supposed to come up with such identities ?
– alxchen
Nov 24 at 7:13
3
Well, $18+5sqrt{13}$ is a unit in a quadratic field, in which $frac12(3+sqrt{13})$ is the fundamental unit.
– Lord Shark the Unknown
Nov 24 at 7:28
add a comment |
up vote
2
down vote
Let first root be $A$ and second be $B$, then we need to find the value of $A + B = x$
- $A^3 + B^3 = -36$
- $AB = -1$
Expand the cube: $A^3 + B^3 = (A+B)*(A^2 - AB + B^2) = (A+B)*((A+B)^2-3AB) = x*(x^2+3) = x^3 + 3x = -36$.
Easy guess $x = -3$
Another approach: assume that you have a cube under the root, then, say, you take the right equation where you factor the minus out:
$18 + 5sqrt{13} = (a+bsqrt{13})^3$
Then you gotta solve the system of equations made from matching the summands with the $sqrt{13}$ and without:
- $a^3 + 39ab^2 = 18$
- $3a^2b + 13b^3 = 5$
Wolfram yields $a = 1.5$ and $b = 0.5$, by hand calculations led me nowhere
This method is already given by OP in the question, I think
– Kemono Chen
Nov 24 at 6:14
edited with another approach
– Makina
Nov 24 at 6:26
Makina.Your first approach gives an idea where the cubic equation came from.+
– Peter Szilas
Nov 24 at 7:29
add a comment |
up vote
0
down vote
It helps a lot that we know the answer in advance! Otherwise, some lucky guesswork (or knowledge of algebraic number theory) is required.
One can follow a quite similar line of reasoning to Rafael Bombelli (c.1526-1572). See Bombelli and the invention of complex numbers; or my answer to an earlier question here; or section 14.3, "Cubic Equations", of John Stillwell's book Mathematics and Its History (second edition 2002 - there is a third edition, which I don't have).
We know that if $a$ and $b$ are rational, and $(a + bsqrt{13})^3 = c + dsqrt{13}$, then $(a - bsqrt{13})^3 = c - dsqrt{13}$. So it is a natural idea - and a much less "radical" leap than Bombelli's (if you'll pardon the pun) - to look for rational $a, b$ such that $(a + bsqrt{13})^3 = 18 + 5sqrt{13}$. Then we will have $sqrt[3]{18 + 5sqrt{13}} + sqrt[3]{18 - 5sqrt{13}} = 2a$.
We know right away that $a = frac{3}{2}$. (Honesty compels me to admit that I initially overlooked this obvious fact!) Equating coefficients of the irrational number $sqrt{13}$ in the expanded version of either of the equations defining $a, b$, we have $a^3 + 39ab^2 = 18$, which simplifies to $frac{9}{4} + 39b^2 = 12$. Taking $b > 0$, for definiteness, we have $b = frac{1}{2}$. We now only
need check that $3a^2b + 13b^3 = 5$, i.e. $3a^2 + 13b^2 = 10$, to see that the
defining equations for $a, b$ are indeed satisfied.
add a comment |
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3 Answers
3
active
oldest
votes
3 Answers
3
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
up vote
2
down vote
accepted
Compute
$$left(frac{3+sqrt{13}}2right)^3=18+5sqrt{13}.$$
Therefore
$$sqrt[3]{18+5sqrt{13}}=frac{3+sqrt{13}}2.$$
Similarly
$$sqrt[3]{pm 18pm 5sqrt{13}}=frac{pm 3pmsqrt{13}}2$$
where the signs on both sides correspond. Then
$$sqrt[3]{-18+ 5sqrt{13}}-sqrt[3]{-18-5sqrt{13}}
=frac{-3+sqrt{13}}2+frac{-3-sqrt{13}}2=-3.$$
2
How did you find the identity $(3+sqrt{13})^3 = 8(18 + 5 sqrt{13})$ a priori ? In particular, how one is supposed to come up with such identities ?
– alxchen
Nov 24 at 7:13
3
Well, $18+5sqrt{13}$ is a unit in a quadratic field, in which $frac12(3+sqrt{13})$ is the fundamental unit.
– Lord Shark the Unknown
Nov 24 at 7:28
add a comment |
up vote
2
down vote
accepted
Compute
$$left(frac{3+sqrt{13}}2right)^3=18+5sqrt{13}.$$
Therefore
$$sqrt[3]{18+5sqrt{13}}=frac{3+sqrt{13}}2.$$
Similarly
$$sqrt[3]{pm 18pm 5sqrt{13}}=frac{pm 3pmsqrt{13}}2$$
where the signs on both sides correspond. Then
$$sqrt[3]{-18+ 5sqrt{13}}-sqrt[3]{-18-5sqrt{13}}
=frac{-3+sqrt{13}}2+frac{-3-sqrt{13}}2=-3.$$
2
How did you find the identity $(3+sqrt{13})^3 = 8(18 + 5 sqrt{13})$ a priori ? In particular, how one is supposed to come up with such identities ?
– alxchen
Nov 24 at 7:13
3
Well, $18+5sqrt{13}$ is a unit in a quadratic field, in which $frac12(3+sqrt{13})$ is the fundamental unit.
– Lord Shark the Unknown
Nov 24 at 7:28
add a comment |
up vote
2
down vote
accepted
up vote
2
down vote
accepted
Compute
$$left(frac{3+sqrt{13}}2right)^3=18+5sqrt{13}.$$
Therefore
$$sqrt[3]{18+5sqrt{13}}=frac{3+sqrt{13}}2.$$
Similarly
$$sqrt[3]{pm 18pm 5sqrt{13}}=frac{pm 3pmsqrt{13}}2$$
where the signs on both sides correspond. Then
$$sqrt[3]{-18+ 5sqrt{13}}-sqrt[3]{-18-5sqrt{13}}
=frac{-3+sqrt{13}}2+frac{-3-sqrt{13}}2=-3.$$
Compute
$$left(frac{3+sqrt{13}}2right)^3=18+5sqrt{13}.$$
Therefore
$$sqrt[3]{18+5sqrt{13}}=frac{3+sqrt{13}}2.$$
Similarly
$$sqrt[3]{pm 18pm 5sqrt{13}}=frac{pm 3pmsqrt{13}}2$$
where the signs on both sides correspond. Then
$$sqrt[3]{-18+ 5sqrt{13}}-sqrt[3]{-18-5sqrt{13}}
=frac{-3+sqrt{13}}2+frac{-3-sqrt{13}}2=-3.$$
answered Nov 24 at 6:06
Lord Shark the Unknown
100k958131
100k958131
2
How did you find the identity $(3+sqrt{13})^3 = 8(18 + 5 sqrt{13})$ a priori ? In particular, how one is supposed to come up with such identities ?
– alxchen
Nov 24 at 7:13
3
Well, $18+5sqrt{13}$ is a unit in a quadratic field, in which $frac12(3+sqrt{13})$ is the fundamental unit.
– Lord Shark the Unknown
Nov 24 at 7:28
add a comment |
2
How did you find the identity $(3+sqrt{13})^3 = 8(18 + 5 sqrt{13})$ a priori ? In particular, how one is supposed to come up with such identities ?
– alxchen
Nov 24 at 7:13
3
Well, $18+5sqrt{13}$ is a unit in a quadratic field, in which $frac12(3+sqrt{13})$ is the fundamental unit.
– Lord Shark the Unknown
Nov 24 at 7:28
2
2
How did you find the identity $(3+sqrt{13})^3 = 8(18 + 5 sqrt{13})$ a priori ? In particular, how one is supposed to come up with such identities ?
– alxchen
Nov 24 at 7:13
How did you find the identity $(3+sqrt{13})^3 = 8(18 + 5 sqrt{13})$ a priori ? In particular, how one is supposed to come up with such identities ?
– alxchen
Nov 24 at 7:13
3
3
Well, $18+5sqrt{13}$ is a unit in a quadratic field, in which $frac12(3+sqrt{13})$ is the fundamental unit.
– Lord Shark the Unknown
Nov 24 at 7:28
Well, $18+5sqrt{13}$ is a unit in a quadratic field, in which $frac12(3+sqrt{13})$ is the fundamental unit.
– Lord Shark the Unknown
Nov 24 at 7:28
add a comment |
up vote
2
down vote
Let first root be $A$ and second be $B$, then we need to find the value of $A + B = x$
- $A^3 + B^3 = -36$
- $AB = -1$
Expand the cube: $A^3 + B^3 = (A+B)*(A^2 - AB + B^2) = (A+B)*((A+B)^2-3AB) = x*(x^2+3) = x^3 + 3x = -36$.
Easy guess $x = -3$
Another approach: assume that you have a cube under the root, then, say, you take the right equation where you factor the minus out:
$18 + 5sqrt{13} = (a+bsqrt{13})^3$
Then you gotta solve the system of equations made from matching the summands with the $sqrt{13}$ and without:
- $a^3 + 39ab^2 = 18$
- $3a^2b + 13b^3 = 5$
Wolfram yields $a = 1.5$ and $b = 0.5$, by hand calculations led me nowhere
This method is already given by OP in the question, I think
– Kemono Chen
Nov 24 at 6:14
edited with another approach
– Makina
Nov 24 at 6:26
Makina.Your first approach gives an idea where the cubic equation came from.+
– Peter Szilas
Nov 24 at 7:29
add a comment |
up vote
2
down vote
Let first root be $A$ and second be $B$, then we need to find the value of $A + B = x$
- $A^3 + B^3 = -36$
- $AB = -1$
Expand the cube: $A^3 + B^3 = (A+B)*(A^2 - AB + B^2) = (A+B)*((A+B)^2-3AB) = x*(x^2+3) = x^3 + 3x = -36$.
Easy guess $x = -3$
Another approach: assume that you have a cube under the root, then, say, you take the right equation where you factor the minus out:
$18 + 5sqrt{13} = (a+bsqrt{13})^3$
Then you gotta solve the system of equations made from matching the summands with the $sqrt{13}$ and without:
- $a^3 + 39ab^2 = 18$
- $3a^2b + 13b^3 = 5$
Wolfram yields $a = 1.5$ and $b = 0.5$, by hand calculations led me nowhere
This method is already given by OP in the question, I think
– Kemono Chen
Nov 24 at 6:14
edited with another approach
– Makina
Nov 24 at 6:26
Makina.Your first approach gives an idea where the cubic equation came from.+
– Peter Szilas
Nov 24 at 7:29
add a comment |
up vote
2
down vote
up vote
2
down vote
Let first root be $A$ and second be $B$, then we need to find the value of $A + B = x$
- $A^3 + B^3 = -36$
- $AB = -1$
Expand the cube: $A^3 + B^3 = (A+B)*(A^2 - AB + B^2) = (A+B)*((A+B)^2-3AB) = x*(x^2+3) = x^3 + 3x = -36$.
Easy guess $x = -3$
Another approach: assume that you have a cube under the root, then, say, you take the right equation where you factor the minus out:
$18 + 5sqrt{13} = (a+bsqrt{13})^3$
Then you gotta solve the system of equations made from matching the summands with the $sqrt{13}$ and without:
- $a^3 + 39ab^2 = 18$
- $3a^2b + 13b^3 = 5$
Wolfram yields $a = 1.5$ and $b = 0.5$, by hand calculations led me nowhere
Let first root be $A$ and second be $B$, then we need to find the value of $A + B = x$
- $A^3 + B^3 = -36$
- $AB = -1$
Expand the cube: $A^3 + B^3 = (A+B)*(A^2 - AB + B^2) = (A+B)*((A+B)^2-3AB) = x*(x^2+3) = x^3 + 3x = -36$.
Easy guess $x = -3$
Another approach: assume that you have a cube under the root, then, say, you take the right equation where you factor the minus out:
$18 + 5sqrt{13} = (a+bsqrt{13})^3$
Then you gotta solve the system of equations made from matching the summands with the $sqrt{13}$ and without:
- $a^3 + 39ab^2 = 18$
- $3a^2b + 13b^3 = 5$
Wolfram yields $a = 1.5$ and $b = 0.5$, by hand calculations led me nowhere
edited Nov 24 at 6:26
answered Nov 24 at 6:13
Makina
1,058115
1,058115
This method is already given by OP in the question, I think
– Kemono Chen
Nov 24 at 6:14
edited with another approach
– Makina
Nov 24 at 6:26
Makina.Your first approach gives an idea where the cubic equation came from.+
– Peter Szilas
Nov 24 at 7:29
add a comment |
This method is already given by OP in the question, I think
– Kemono Chen
Nov 24 at 6:14
edited with another approach
– Makina
Nov 24 at 6:26
Makina.Your first approach gives an idea where the cubic equation came from.+
– Peter Szilas
Nov 24 at 7:29
This method is already given by OP in the question, I think
– Kemono Chen
Nov 24 at 6:14
This method is already given by OP in the question, I think
– Kemono Chen
Nov 24 at 6:14
edited with another approach
– Makina
Nov 24 at 6:26
edited with another approach
– Makina
Nov 24 at 6:26
Makina.Your first approach gives an idea where the cubic equation came from.+
– Peter Szilas
Nov 24 at 7:29
Makina.Your first approach gives an idea where the cubic equation came from.+
– Peter Szilas
Nov 24 at 7:29
add a comment |
up vote
0
down vote
It helps a lot that we know the answer in advance! Otherwise, some lucky guesswork (or knowledge of algebraic number theory) is required.
One can follow a quite similar line of reasoning to Rafael Bombelli (c.1526-1572). See Bombelli and the invention of complex numbers; or my answer to an earlier question here; or section 14.3, "Cubic Equations", of John Stillwell's book Mathematics and Its History (second edition 2002 - there is a third edition, which I don't have).
We know that if $a$ and $b$ are rational, and $(a + bsqrt{13})^3 = c + dsqrt{13}$, then $(a - bsqrt{13})^3 = c - dsqrt{13}$. So it is a natural idea - and a much less "radical" leap than Bombelli's (if you'll pardon the pun) - to look for rational $a, b$ such that $(a + bsqrt{13})^3 = 18 + 5sqrt{13}$. Then we will have $sqrt[3]{18 + 5sqrt{13}} + sqrt[3]{18 - 5sqrt{13}} = 2a$.
We know right away that $a = frac{3}{2}$. (Honesty compels me to admit that I initially overlooked this obvious fact!) Equating coefficients of the irrational number $sqrt{13}$ in the expanded version of either of the equations defining $a, b$, we have $a^3 + 39ab^2 = 18$, which simplifies to $frac{9}{4} + 39b^2 = 12$. Taking $b > 0$, for definiteness, we have $b = frac{1}{2}$. We now only
need check that $3a^2b + 13b^3 = 5$, i.e. $3a^2 + 13b^2 = 10$, to see that the
defining equations for $a, b$ are indeed satisfied.
add a comment |
up vote
0
down vote
It helps a lot that we know the answer in advance! Otherwise, some lucky guesswork (or knowledge of algebraic number theory) is required.
One can follow a quite similar line of reasoning to Rafael Bombelli (c.1526-1572). See Bombelli and the invention of complex numbers; or my answer to an earlier question here; or section 14.3, "Cubic Equations", of John Stillwell's book Mathematics and Its History (second edition 2002 - there is a third edition, which I don't have).
We know that if $a$ and $b$ are rational, and $(a + bsqrt{13})^3 = c + dsqrt{13}$, then $(a - bsqrt{13})^3 = c - dsqrt{13}$. So it is a natural idea - and a much less "radical" leap than Bombelli's (if you'll pardon the pun) - to look for rational $a, b$ such that $(a + bsqrt{13})^3 = 18 + 5sqrt{13}$. Then we will have $sqrt[3]{18 + 5sqrt{13}} + sqrt[3]{18 - 5sqrt{13}} = 2a$.
We know right away that $a = frac{3}{2}$. (Honesty compels me to admit that I initially overlooked this obvious fact!) Equating coefficients of the irrational number $sqrt{13}$ in the expanded version of either of the equations defining $a, b$, we have $a^3 + 39ab^2 = 18$, which simplifies to $frac{9}{4} + 39b^2 = 12$. Taking $b > 0$, for definiteness, we have $b = frac{1}{2}$. We now only
need check that $3a^2b + 13b^3 = 5$, i.e. $3a^2 + 13b^2 = 10$, to see that the
defining equations for $a, b$ are indeed satisfied.
add a comment |
up vote
0
down vote
up vote
0
down vote
It helps a lot that we know the answer in advance! Otherwise, some lucky guesswork (or knowledge of algebraic number theory) is required.
One can follow a quite similar line of reasoning to Rafael Bombelli (c.1526-1572). See Bombelli and the invention of complex numbers; or my answer to an earlier question here; or section 14.3, "Cubic Equations", of John Stillwell's book Mathematics and Its History (second edition 2002 - there is a third edition, which I don't have).
We know that if $a$ and $b$ are rational, and $(a + bsqrt{13})^3 = c + dsqrt{13}$, then $(a - bsqrt{13})^3 = c - dsqrt{13}$. So it is a natural idea - and a much less "radical" leap than Bombelli's (if you'll pardon the pun) - to look for rational $a, b$ such that $(a + bsqrt{13})^3 = 18 + 5sqrt{13}$. Then we will have $sqrt[3]{18 + 5sqrt{13}} + sqrt[3]{18 - 5sqrt{13}} = 2a$.
We know right away that $a = frac{3}{2}$. (Honesty compels me to admit that I initially overlooked this obvious fact!) Equating coefficients of the irrational number $sqrt{13}$ in the expanded version of either of the equations defining $a, b$, we have $a^3 + 39ab^2 = 18$, which simplifies to $frac{9}{4} + 39b^2 = 12$. Taking $b > 0$, for definiteness, we have $b = frac{1}{2}$. We now only
need check that $3a^2b + 13b^3 = 5$, i.e. $3a^2 + 13b^2 = 10$, to see that the
defining equations for $a, b$ are indeed satisfied.
It helps a lot that we know the answer in advance! Otherwise, some lucky guesswork (or knowledge of algebraic number theory) is required.
One can follow a quite similar line of reasoning to Rafael Bombelli (c.1526-1572). See Bombelli and the invention of complex numbers; or my answer to an earlier question here; or section 14.3, "Cubic Equations", of John Stillwell's book Mathematics and Its History (second edition 2002 - there is a third edition, which I don't have).
We know that if $a$ and $b$ are rational, and $(a + bsqrt{13})^3 = c + dsqrt{13}$, then $(a - bsqrt{13})^3 = c - dsqrt{13}$. So it is a natural idea - and a much less "radical" leap than Bombelli's (if you'll pardon the pun) - to look for rational $a, b$ such that $(a + bsqrt{13})^3 = 18 + 5sqrt{13}$. Then we will have $sqrt[3]{18 + 5sqrt{13}} + sqrt[3]{18 - 5sqrt{13}} = 2a$.
We know right away that $a = frac{3}{2}$. (Honesty compels me to admit that I initially overlooked this obvious fact!) Equating coefficients of the irrational number $sqrt{13}$ in the expanded version of either of the equations defining $a, b$, we have $a^3 + 39ab^2 = 18$, which simplifies to $frac{9}{4} + 39b^2 = 12$. Taking $b > 0$, for definiteness, we have $b = frac{1}{2}$. We now only
need check that $3a^2b + 13b^3 = 5$, i.e. $3a^2 + 13b^2 = 10$, to see that the
defining equations for $a, b$ are indeed satisfied.
edited Nov 25 at 9:23
answered Nov 24 at 20:21
Calum Gilhooley
4,097529
4,097529
add a comment |
add a comment |
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3
Is it written correctly, because as written, it is not true - see wolframalpha.com/input/…
– Moo
Nov 24 at 5:45
2
@Moo you can use
Surd
orCubeRoot
function. W|A has a different understanding of $(-x)^{1/3}$. Also, OP updated the numbers.– Kemono Chen
Nov 24 at 5:50
1
Mathematica input
CubeRoot[Sqrt[325] - 18] + CubeRoot[-Sqrt[325] - 18] // FullSimplify
shows the result is $-3$.– Kemono Chen
Nov 24 at 5:53
2
As it is currently written, the LHS equals $-3$, not $3$. This is easily seen by noting that $18^2 = 324$, thus $sqrt{325}$ is only slightly more than $18$, whereas $-18 - sqrt{325} approx -36$.
– heropup
Nov 24 at 5:54
1
Your LHS looks negative to me.
– Lord Shark the Unknown
Nov 24 at 5:55