Prove J is an ideal.
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I understand that first i must check J is a subring then prove right & left ideals. My question is the notation on the elements in I. How would i subtract/multiply 2 functions of I.
abstract-algebra ideals
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I understand that first i must check J is a subring then prove right & left ideals. My question is the notation on the elements in I. How would i subtract/multiply 2 functions of I.
abstract-algebra ideals
1
... or note that $J$ is the kernel of the canonical ring homomorphism $Bbb Z[x]to Bbb F_2[x]$. -- But what is the $I$ that later occurs?
– Hagen von Eitzen
Nov 18 at 23:34
sorry my question only concerns part (a).
– H.B
Nov 18 at 23:36
to check J is an ideal, i must check it is non empty, closed under subtraction and multiplication. Finally i must check that J absorbs products. My confusion is how to deal with the functions in J. For example how would i show f(x)-g(x) is closed for f(x),g(x) in J.
– H.B
Nov 18 at 23:39
$I$ is not defined in this post.
– Matt Samuel
Nov 18 at 23:39
I meant to write J not I, sorry.
– H.B
Nov 18 at 23:41
|
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up vote
0
down vote
favorite
up vote
0
down vote
favorite
I understand that first i must check J is a subring then prove right & left ideals. My question is the notation on the elements in I. How would i subtract/multiply 2 functions of I.
abstract-algebra ideals
I understand that first i must check J is a subring then prove right & left ideals. My question is the notation on the elements in I. How would i subtract/multiply 2 functions of I.
abstract-algebra ideals
abstract-algebra ideals
edited Nov 19 at 0:02
The R
516
516
asked Nov 18 at 23:30
H.B
203
203
1
... or note that $J$ is the kernel of the canonical ring homomorphism $Bbb Z[x]to Bbb F_2[x]$. -- But what is the $I$ that later occurs?
– Hagen von Eitzen
Nov 18 at 23:34
sorry my question only concerns part (a).
– H.B
Nov 18 at 23:36
to check J is an ideal, i must check it is non empty, closed under subtraction and multiplication. Finally i must check that J absorbs products. My confusion is how to deal with the functions in J. For example how would i show f(x)-g(x) is closed for f(x),g(x) in J.
– H.B
Nov 18 at 23:39
$I$ is not defined in this post.
– Matt Samuel
Nov 18 at 23:39
I meant to write J not I, sorry.
– H.B
Nov 18 at 23:41
|
show 1 more comment
1
... or note that $J$ is the kernel of the canonical ring homomorphism $Bbb Z[x]to Bbb F_2[x]$. -- But what is the $I$ that later occurs?
– Hagen von Eitzen
Nov 18 at 23:34
sorry my question only concerns part (a).
– H.B
Nov 18 at 23:36
to check J is an ideal, i must check it is non empty, closed under subtraction and multiplication. Finally i must check that J absorbs products. My confusion is how to deal with the functions in J. For example how would i show f(x)-g(x) is closed for f(x),g(x) in J.
– H.B
Nov 18 at 23:39
$I$ is not defined in this post.
– Matt Samuel
Nov 18 at 23:39
I meant to write J not I, sorry.
– H.B
Nov 18 at 23:41
1
1
... or note that $J$ is the kernel of the canonical ring homomorphism $Bbb Z[x]to Bbb F_2[x]$. -- But what is the $I$ that later occurs?
– Hagen von Eitzen
Nov 18 at 23:34
... or note that $J$ is the kernel of the canonical ring homomorphism $Bbb Z[x]to Bbb F_2[x]$. -- But what is the $I$ that later occurs?
– Hagen von Eitzen
Nov 18 at 23:34
sorry my question only concerns part (a).
– H.B
Nov 18 at 23:36
sorry my question only concerns part (a).
– H.B
Nov 18 at 23:36
to check J is an ideal, i must check it is non empty, closed under subtraction and multiplication. Finally i must check that J absorbs products. My confusion is how to deal with the functions in J. For example how would i show f(x)-g(x) is closed for f(x),g(x) in J.
– H.B
Nov 18 at 23:39
to check J is an ideal, i must check it is non empty, closed under subtraction and multiplication. Finally i must check that J absorbs products. My confusion is how to deal with the functions in J. For example how would i show f(x)-g(x) is closed for f(x),g(x) in J.
– H.B
Nov 18 at 23:39
$I$ is not defined in this post.
– Matt Samuel
Nov 18 at 23:39
$I$ is not defined in this post.
– Matt Samuel
Nov 18 at 23:39
I meant to write J not I, sorry.
– H.B
Nov 18 at 23:41
I meant to write J not I, sorry.
– H.B
Nov 18 at 23:41
|
show 1 more comment
2 Answers
2
active
oldest
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up vote
0
down vote
Consider general arbitrary elements $P,Q in J$, and an element $R in mathbb{Z}[x]$.
Then clearly $P(x)R(x)$ has even coefficients because the product of any integer with an even integer is even, thus $R(x) in J$.
Furthermore, $P(x) + Q(x)$ must also have even coefficients because the sum of any two even numbers is again even.
This is sufficient, and proves that $J$ is an ideal.
(If you're unsure why this is sufficient, consider why these conditions imply that $(J,+)$ is a subgroup of $(mathbb{Z}[x]$,+) and $jr in J$ for all $j in J, r in R$ - these are precisely the requirements of a (two-sided) ideal).
Edit: In terms of notation, because we're talking about polynomials here you consider multiplication of functions to be exactly the multiplication you'd expect, e.g. $(x^2 + 2)(x + 1) = x^3 + x^2 + 2x + 2 in mathbb{Z}[x]$. The same for addition.
add a comment |
up vote
0
down vote
Perhaps it would help to see this problem solved more explicitly. We first note that $0 = 2cdot 0 in J$, so $J neq emptyset$. I will consider the case of $f(X) - g(X)$. Consider $f(X),g(X) in J$. Then we have $f(X) = a_nX^n + a_{n-1}X^{n-1} + dotsb + a_0$ and $g(X) = b_mX^m + b_{m-1}X^{m-1} + dotsb + b_0$ with $a_n,a_{n-1},dotsc,a_0 in 2Bbb Z$ and $ b_m,b_{m-1},dotsc,b_0 in 2Bbb{Z}$. That is, $a_i = 2a'_i$ and $b_j = 2b'_j$ for $i = 1,dotsc,n$ and for $j = 1,dotsc,m$. For convenience, suppose $m leq n$ and let $b_j = 0$ for $m < j leq n$ if $m < n$. Thus we may assume $m = n$. We have
$$begin{align}f(X) - g(X) &= left(a_nX^n + a_{n-1}X^{n-1} + dotsb + a_0right) - left(b_nX^n + b_{n-1}X^{n-1} + dotsb + b_0right)\
&= (a_n - b_n)X^n + (a_{n-1} - b_{n-1})X^{n-1} + dotsb + (a_0 - b_0)\
&= 2(a'_n - b'_n)X^n + 2(a'_{n-1} - b'_{n-1})X^{n-1} + dotsb + 2(a'_0 + b'_0) in J.end{align}$$
Thus $f(X) - g(X) in J$ for $f(X),g(X) in J$ and so $J$ has the structure of an abelian group. That $J$ is closed under multiplication follows similarly, and could prove fruitful to write down explicitly such a problem at least once.
Yes this helps a lot !! I just needed to see how I would write this in a formal proof.
– H.B
Nov 19 at 0:55
I highly recommend the multiplicative case as an exercise then. I recall elementary symmetric polynomials here: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elementary_symmetric_polynomial
– Thomas Chansler
Nov 19 at 10:38
add a comment |
2 Answers
2
active
oldest
votes
2 Answers
2
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
up vote
0
down vote
Consider general arbitrary elements $P,Q in J$, and an element $R in mathbb{Z}[x]$.
Then clearly $P(x)R(x)$ has even coefficients because the product of any integer with an even integer is even, thus $R(x) in J$.
Furthermore, $P(x) + Q(x)$ must also have even coefficients because the sum of any two even numbers is again even.
This is sufficient, and proves that $J$ is an ideal.
(If you're unsure why this is sufficient, consider why these conditions imply that $(J,+)$ is a subgroup of $(mathbb{Z}[x]$,+) and $jr in J$ for all $j in J, r in R$ - these are precisely the requirements of a (two-sided) ideal).
Edit: In terms of notation, because we're talking about polynomials here you consider multiplication of functions to be exactly the multiplication you'd expect, e.g. $(x^2 + 2)(x + 1) = x^3 + x^2 + 2x + 2 in mathbb{Z}[x]$. The same for addition.
add a comment |
up vote
0
down vote
Consider general arbitrary elements $P,Q in J$, and an element $R in mathbb{Z}[x]$.
Then clearly $P(x)R(x)$ has even coefficients because the product of any integer with an even integer is even, thus $R(x) in J$.
Furthermore, $P(x) + Q(x)$ must also have even coefficients because the sum of any two even numbers is again even.
This is sufficient, and proves that $J$ is an ideal.
(If you're unsure why this is sufficient, consider why these conditions imply that $(J,+)$ is a subgroup of $(mathbb{Z}[x]$,+) and $jr in J$ for all $j in J, r in R$ - these are precisely the requirements of a (two-sided) ideal).
Edit: In terms of notation, because we're talking about polynomials here you consider multiplication of functions to be exactly the multiplication you'd expect, e.g. $(x^2 + 2)(x + 1) = x^3 + x^2 + 2x + 2 in mathbb{Z}[x]$. The same for addition.
add a comment |
up vote
0
down vote
up vote
0
down vote
Consider general arbitrary elements $P,Q in J$, and an element $R in mathbb{Z}[x]$.
Then clearly $P(x)R(x)$ has even coefficients because the product of any integer with an even integer is even, thus $R(x) in J$.
Furthermore, $P(x) + Q(x)$ must also have even coefficients because the sum of any two even numbers is again even.
This is sufficient, and proves that $J$ is an ideal.
(If you're unsure why this is sufficient, consider why these conditions imply that $(J,+)$ is a subgroup of $(mathbb{Z}[x]$,+) and $jr in J$ for all $j in J, r in R$ - these are precisely the requirements of a (two-sided) ideal).
Edit: In terms of notation, because we're talking about polynomials here you consider multiplication of functions to be exactly the multiplication you'd expect, e.g. $(x^2 + 2)(x + 1) = x^3 + x^2 + 2x + 2 in mathbb{Z}[x]$. The same for addition.
Consider general arbitrary elements $P,Q in J$, and an element $R in mathbb{Z}[x]$.
Then clearly $P(x)R(x)$ has even coefficients because the product of any integer with an even integer is even, thus $R(x) in J$.
Furthermore, $P(x) + Q(x)$ must also have even coefficients because the sum of any two even numbers is again even.
This is sufficient, and proves that $J$ is an ideal.
(If you're unsure why this is sufficient, consider why these conditions imply that $(J,+)$ is a subgroup of $(mathbb{Z}[x]$,+) and $jr in J$ for all $j in J, r in R$ - these are precisely the requirements of a (two-sided) ideal).
Edit: In terms of notation, because we're talking about polynomials here you consider multiplication of functions to be exactly the multiplication you'd expect, e.g. $(x^2 + 2)(x + 1) = x^3 + x^2 + 2x + 2 in mathbb{Z}[x]$. The same for addition.
edited Nov 19 at 0:01
answered Nov 18 at 23:52
Stuartg98
385
385
add a comment |
add a comment |
up vote
0
down vote
Perhaps it would help to see this problem solved more explicitly. We first note that $0 = 2cdot 0 in J$, so $J neq emptyset$. I will consider the case of $f(X) - g(X)$. Consider $f(X),g(X) in J$. Then we have $f(X) = a_nX^n + a_{n-1}X^{n-1} + dotsb + a_0$ and $g(X) = b_mX^m + b_{m-1}X^{m-1} + dotsb + b_0$ with $a_n,a_{n-1},dotsc,a_0 in 2Bbb Z$ and $ b_m,b_{m-1},dotsc,b_0 in 2Bbb{Z}$. That is, $a_i = 2a'_i$ and $b_j = 2b'_j$ for $i = 1,dotsc,n$ and for $j = 1,dotsc,m$. For convenience, suppose $m leq n$ and let $b_j = 0$ for $m < j leq n$ if $m < n$. Thus we may assume $m = n$. We have
$$begin{align}f(X) - g(X) &= left(a_nX^n + a_{n-1}X^{n-1} + dotsb + a_0right) - left(b_nX^n + b_{n-1}X^{n-1} + dotsb + b_0right)\
&= (a_n - b_n)X^n + (a_{n-1} - b_{n-1})X^{n-1} + dotsb + (a_0 - b_0)\
&= 2(a'_n - b'_n)X^n + 2(a'_{n-1} - b'_{n-1})X^{n-1} + dotsb + 2(a'_0 + b'_0) in J.end{align}$$
Thus $f(X) - g(X) in J$ for $f(X),g(X) in J$ and so $J$ has the structure of an abelian group. That $J$ is closed under multiplication follows similarly, and could prove fruitful to write down explicitly such a problem at least once.
Yes this helps a lot !! I just needed to see how I would write this in a formal proof.
– H.B
Nov 19 at 0:55
I highly recommend the multiplicative case as an exercise then. I recall elementary symmetric polynomials here: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elementary_symmetric_polynomial
– Thomas Chansler
Nov 19 at 10:38
add a comment |
up vote
0
down vote
Perhaps it would help to see this problem solved more explicitly. We first note that $0 = 2cdot 0 in J$, so $J neq emptyset$. I will consider the case of $f(X) - g(X)$. Consider $f(X),g(X) in J$. Then we have $f(X) = a_nX^n + a_{n-1}X^{n-1} + dotsb + a_0$ and $g(X) = b_mX^m + b_{m-1}X^{m-1} + dotsb + b_0$ with $a_n,a_{n-1},dotsc,a_0 in 2Bbb Z$ and $ b_m,b_{m-1},dotsc,b_0 in 2Bbb{Z}$. That is, $a_i = 2a'_i$ and $b_j = 2b'_j$ for $i = 1,dotsc,n$ and for $j = 1,dotsc,m$. For convenience, suppose $m leq n$ and let $b_j = 0$ for $m < j leq n$ if $m < n$. Thus we may assume $m = n$. We have
$$begin{align}f(X) - g(X) &= left(a_nX^n + a_{n-1}X^{n-1} + dotsb + a_0right) - left(b_nX^n + b_{n-1}X^{n-1} + dotsb + b_0right)\
&= (a_n - b_n)X^n + (a_{n-1} - b_{n-1})X^{n-1} + dotsb + (a_0 - b_0)\
&= 2(a'_n - b'_n)X^n + 2(a'_{n-1} - b'_{n-1})X^{n-1} + dotsb + 2(a'_0 + b'_0) in J.end{align}$$
Thus $f(X) - g(X) in J$ for $f(X),g(X) in J$ and so $J$ has the structure of an abelian group. That $J$ is closed under multiplication follows similarly, and could prove fruitful to write down explicitly such a problem at least once.
Yes this helps a lot !! I just needed to see how I would write this in a formal proof.
– H.B
Nov 19 at 0:55
I highly recommend the multiplicative case as an exercise then. I recall elementary symmetric polynomials here: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elementary_symmetric_polynomial
– Thomas Chansler
Nov 19 at 10:38
add a comment |
up vote
0
down vote
up vote
0
down vote
Perhaps it would help to see this problem solved more explicitly. We first note that $0 = 2cdot 0 in J$, so $J neq emptyset$. I will consider the case of $f(X) - g(X)$. Consider $f(X),g(X) in J$. Then we have $f(X) = a_nX^n + a_{n-1}X^{n-1} + dotsb + a_0$ and $g(X) = b_mX^m + b_{m-1}X^{m-1} + dotsb + b_0$ with $a_n,a_{n-1},dotsc,a_0 in 2Bbb Z$ and $ b_m,b_{m-1},dotsc,b_0 in 2Bbb{Z}$. That is, $a_i = 2a'_i$ and $b_j = 2b'_j$ for $i = 1,dotsc,n$ and for $j = 1,dotsc,m$. For convenience, suppose $m leq n$ and let $b_j = 0$ for $m < j leq n$ if $m < n$. Thus we may assume $m = n$. We have
$$begin{align}f(X) - g(X) &= left(a_nX^n + a_{n-1}X^{n-1} + dotsb + a_0right) - left(b_nX^n + b_{n-1}X^{n-1} + dotsb + b_0right)\
&= (a_n - b_n)X^n + (a_{n-1} - b_{n-1})X^{n-1} + dotsb + (a_0 - b_0)\
&= 2(a'_n - b'_n)X^n + 2(a'_{n-1} - b'_{n-1})X^{n-1} + dotsb + 2(a'_0 + b'_0) in J.end{align}$$
Thus $f(X) - g(X) in J$ for $f(X),g(X) in J$ and so $J$ has the structure of an abelian group. That $J$ is closed under multiplication follows similarly, and could prove fruitful to write down explicitly such a problem at least once.
Perhaps it would help to see this problem solved more explicitly. We first note that $0 = 2cdot 0 in J$, so $J neq emptyset$. I will consider the case of $f(X) - g(X)$. Consider $f(X),g(X) in J$. Then we have $f(X) = a_nX^n + a_{n-1}X^{n-1} + dotsb + a_0$ and $g(X) = b_mX^m + b_{m-1}X^{m-1} + dotsb + b_0$ with $a_n,a_{n-1},dotsc,a_0 in 2Bbb Z$ and $ b_m,b_{m-1},dotsc,b_0 in 2Bbb{Z}$. That is, $a_i = 2a'_i$ and $b_j = 2b'_j$ for $i = 1,dotsc,n$ and for $j = 1,dotsc,m$. For convenience, suppose $m leq n$ and let $b_j = 0$ for $m < j leq n$ if $m < n$. Thus we may assume $m = n$. We have
$$begin{align}f(X) - g(X) &= left(a_nX^n + a_{n-1}X^{n-1} + dotsb + a_0right) - left(b_nX^n + b_{n-1}X^{n-1} + dotsb + b_0right)\
&= (a_n - b_n)X^n + (a_{n-1} - b_{n-1})X^{n-1} + dotsb + (a_0 - b_0)\
&= 2(a'_n - b'_n)X^n + 2(a'_{n-1} - b'_{n-1})X^{n-1} + dotsb + 2(a'_0 + b'_0) in J.end{align}$$
Thus $f(X) - g(X) in J$ for $f(X),g(X) in J$ and so $J$ has the structure of an abelian group. That $J$ is closed under multiplication follows similarly, and could prove fruitful to write down explicitly such a problem at least once.
answered Nov 19 at 0:21
Thomas Chansler
204
204
Yes this helps a lot !! I just needed to see how I would write this in a formal proof.
– H.B
Nov 19 at 0:55
I highly recommend the multiplicative case as an exercise then. I recall elementary symmetric polynomials here: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elementary_symmetric_polynomial
– Thomas Chansler
Nov 19 at 10:38
add a comment |
Yes this helps a lot !! I just needed to see how I would write this in a formal proof.
– H.B
Nov 19 at 0:55
I highly recommend the multiplicative case as an exercise then. I recall elementary symmetric polynomials here: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elementary_symmetric_polynomial
– Thomas Chansler
Nov 19 at 10:38
Yes this helps a lot !! I just needed to see how I would write this in a formal proof.
– H.B
Nov 19 at 0:55
Yes this helps a lot !! I just needed to see how I would write this in a formal proof.
– H.B
Nov 19 at 0:55
I highly recommend the multiplicative case as an exercise then. I recall elementary symmetric polynomials here: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elementary_symmetric_polynomial
– Thomas Chansler
Nov 19 at 10:38
I highly recommend the multiplicative case as an exercise then. I recall elementary symmetric polynomials here: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elementary_symmetric_polynomial
– Thomas Chansler
Nov 19 at 10:38
add a comment |
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1
... or note that $J$ is the kernel of the canonical ring homomorphism $Bbb Z[x]to Bbb F_2[x]$. -- But what is the $I$ that later occurs?
– Hagen von Eitzen
Nov 18 at 23:34
sorry my question only concerns part (a).
– H.B
Nov 18 at 23:36
to check J is an ideal, i must check it is non empty, closed under subtraction and multiplication. Finally i must check that J absorbs products. My confusion is how to deal with the functions in J. For example how would i show f(x)-g(x) is closed for f(x),g(x) in J.
– H.B
Nov 18 at 23:39
$I$ is not defined in this post.
– Matt Samuel
Nov 18 at 23:39
I meant to write J not I, sorry.
– H.B
Nov 18 at 23:41