Upside-down equation: algebra puzzle
This quirky equation was presented to me by a fellow teacher, along with the instruction "solve it both ways up".
The equation is simple enough to solve, with one integer root. What's more interesting is that the page can be rotated $180$° and a new equation can be read.
This second equation has two roots. I found it fairly satisfying that both of its roots are integers, but I was hoping that it would share a root with the first equation.
I set about looking for an equation that makes sense when read upside-down, where the two equations share a root.
My students immediately came up with trivial examples like "$x=1+1$" and "$1=frac{1}{x}$". I haven't found anything more interesting yet. I haven't even figured out an approach better than trial and error, with different permutations of the digits $1$, $6$, $8$ and $9$.
Can anybody help me to find such an equation, ideally one that is similarly "difficult"/"interesting" as the equation presented to me?
Edit: credit is due to Rob Eastaway who (I have learned since posting this question) originally posted the first image on Twitter.
algebra-precalculus recreational-mathematics puzzle
add a comment |
This quirky equation was presented to me by a fellow teacher, along with the instruction "solve it both ways up".
The equation is simple enough to solve, with one integer root. What's more interesting is that the page can be rotated $180$° and a new equation can be read.
This second equation has two roots. I found it fairly satisfying that both of its roots are integers, but I was hoping that it would share a root with the first equation.
I set about looking for an equation that makes sense when read upside-down, where the two equations share a root.
My students immediately came up with trivial examples like "$x=1+1$" and "$1=frac{1}{x}$". I haven't found anything more interesting yet. I haven't even figured out an approach better than trial and error, with different permutations of the digits $1$, $6$, $8$ and $9$.
Can anybody help me to find such an equation, ideally one that is similarly "difficult"/"interesting" as the equation presented to me?
Edit: credit is due to Rob Eastaway who (I have learned since posting this question) originally posted the first image on Twitter.
algebra-precalculus recreational-mathematics puzzle
5
This is simpler than you’re asking for, but the solution to $mathsf{66-6x=0}$ is $mathsf{x=l,l}$ . If you turn the equation and the solution upside down, you get $mathsf{0=x9-99}$ and $,mathsf{l,l=x}$ , which is still correct. Maybe there’s a way to hide this in something more interesting.
– Steve Kass
Dec 19 '18 at 20:33
By 'upside-down' do youy mean rotated by 180 degrees, or reflected in a horizontal axis? This makes a difference; the one allows you to use sixes and nines, the other allows you to use threes.
– Servaes
Dec 20 '18 at 10:55
2
@Servaes have a read of the sentence between the two images. The problem is similar if the equation is reflection, though: I set this as an extension problem!
– Malkin
Dec 20 '18 at 18:17
2
Here is an Aperiodical article on this exact topic: aperiodical.com/2018/12/….
– Peter Kagey
Dec 21 '18 at 17:36
add a comment |
This quirky equation was presented to me by a fellow teacher, along with the instruction "solve it both ways up".
The equation is simple enough to solve, with one integer root. What's more interesting is that the page can be rotated $180$° and a new equation can be read.
This second equation has two roots. I found it fairly satisfying that both of its roots are integers, but I was hoping that it would share a root with the first equation.
I set about looking for an equation that makes sense when read upside-down, where the two equations share a root.
My students immediately came up with trivial examples like "$x=1+1$" and "$1=frac{1}{x}$". I haven't found anything more interesting yet. I haven't even figured out an approach better than trial and error, with different permutations of the digits $1$, $6$, $8$ and $9$.
Can anybody help me to find such an equation, ideally one that is similarly "difficult"/"interesting" as the equation presented to me?
Edit: credit is due to Rob Eastaway who (I have learned since posting this question) originally posted the first image on Twitter.
algebra-precalculus recreational-mathematics puzzle
This quirky equation was presented to me by a fellow teacher, along with the instruction "solve it both ways up".
The equation is simple enough to solve, with one integer root. What's more interesting is that the page can be rotated $180$° and a new equation can be read.
This second equation has two roots. I found it fairly satisfying that both of its roots are integers, but I was hoping that it would share a root with the first equation.
I set about looking for an equation that makes sense when read upside-down, where the two equations share a root.
My students immediately came up with trivial examples like "$x=1+1$" and "$1=frac{1}{x}$". I haven't found anything more interesting yet. I haven't even figured out an approach better than trial and error, with different permutations of the digits $1$, $6$, $8$ and $9$.
Can anybody help me to find such an equation, ideally one that is similarly "difficult"/"interesting" as the equation presented to me?
Edit: credit is due to Rob Eastaway who (I have learned since posting this question) originally posted the first image on Twitter.
algebra-precalculus recreational-mathematics puzzle
algebra-precalculus recreational-mathematics puzzle
edited Dec 22 '18 at 18:37
asked Dec 19 '18 at 19:17
Malkin
1,514726
1,514726
5
This is simpler than you’re asking for, but the solution to $mathsf{66-6x=0}$ is $mathsf{x=l,l}$ . If you turn the equation and the solution upside down, you get $mathsf{0=x9-99}$ and $,mathsf{l,l=x}$ , which is still correct. Maybe there’s a way to hide this in something more interesting.
– Steve Kass
Dec 19 '18 at 20:33
By 'upside-down' do youy mean rotated by 180 degrees, or reflected in a horizontal axis? This makes a difference; the one allows you to use sixes and nines, the other allows you to use threes.
– Servaes
Dec 20 '18 at 10:55
2
@Servaes have a read of the sentence between the two images. The problem is similar if the equation is reflection, though: I set this as an extension problem!
– Malkin
Dec 20 '18 at 18:17
2
Here is an Aperiodical article on this exact topic: aperiodical.com/2018/12/….
– Peter Kagey
Dec 21 '18 at 17:36
add a comment |
5
This is simpler than you’re asking for, but the solution to $mathsf{66-6x=0}$ is $mathsf{x=l,l}$ . If you turn the equation and the solution upside down, you get $mathsf{0=x9-99}$ and $,mathsf{l,l=x}$ , which is still correct. Maybe there’s a way to hide this in something more interesting.
– Steve Kass
Dec 19 '18 at 20:33
By 'upside-down' do youy mean rotated by 180 degrees, or reflected in a horizontal axis? This makes a difference; the one allows you to use sixes and nines, the other allows you to use threes.
– Servaes
Dec 20 '18 at 10:55
2
@Servaes have a read of the sentence between the two images. The problem is similar if the equation is reflection, though: I set this as an extension problem!
– Malkin
Dec 20 '18 at 18:17
2
Here is an Aperiodical article on this exact topic: aperiodical.com/2018/12/….
– Peter Kagey
Dec 21 '18 at 17:36
5
5
This is simpler than you’re asking for, but the solution to $mathsf{66-6x=0}$ is $mathsf{x=l,l}$ . If you turn the equation and the solution upside down, you get $mathsf{0=x9-99}$ and $,mathsf{l,l=x}$ , which is still correct. Maybe there’s a way to hide this in something more interesting.
– Steve Kass
Dec 19 '18 at 20:33
This is simpler than you’re asking for, but the solution to $mathsf{66-6x=0}$ is $mathsf{x=l,l}$ . If you turn the equation and the solution upside down, you get $mathsf{0=x9-99}$ and $,mathsf{l,l=x}$ , which is still correct. Maybe there’s a way to hide this in something more interesting.
– Steve Kass
Dec 19 '18 at 20:33
By 'upside-down' do youy mean rotated by 180 degrees, or reflected in a horizontal axis? This makes a difference; the one allows you to use sixes and nines, the other allows you to use threes.
– Servaes
Dec 20 '18 at 10:55
By 'upside-down' do youy mean rotated by 180 degrees, or reflected in a horizontal axis? This makes a difference; the one allows you to use sixes and nines, the other allows you to use threes.
– Servaes
Dec 20 '18 at 10:55
2
2
@Servaes have a read of the sentence between the two images. The problem is similar if the equation is reflection, though: I set this as an extension problem!
– Malkin
Dec 20 '18 at 18:17
@Servaes have a read of the sentence between the two images. The problem is similar if the equation is reflection, though: I set this as an extension problem!
– Malkin
Dec 20 '18 at 18:17
2
2
Here is an Aperiodical article on this exact topic: aperiodical.com/2018/12/….
– Peter Kagey
Dec 21 '18 at 17:36
Here is an Aperiodical article on this exact topic: aperiodical.com/2018/12/….
– Peter Kagey
Dec 21 '18 at 17:36
add a comment |
4 Answers
4
active
oldest
votes
If I may be allowed to use $2$ and $5$ as well (their digital representations can be flipped ... and result in themselves):
$$frac{82-x}{59+61-x+51}=frac{x-28}{65+x-19+15}$$
Both original and flipped version have $x=55$ as a solution
Here is a digitized version:
and its flipped version:
Thanks a lot for taking the time to write out the "digitized" version of your example. I will definitely be presenting it as a problem to some of my high school students.
– Malkin
Dec 20 '18 at 19:04
@Malkin You're welcome! I do wish Mathjax just had a font for this :)
– Bram28
Dec 20 '18 at 19:07
Your example is nicely generalisable to equations of the form $frac{x-a}{x-b}=frac{a'-x}{b'-x}$ where $a'$ and $b'$ are the rotated forms of $a$ and $b$ (which may be sums; in your case $b=59+61+51$). A quick search on a spreadsheet for examples with integer solutions has yielded lots of such equations! For example, $frac{x-81}{98-x}=frac{18-x}{x-86}$
– Malkin
Dec 20 '18 at 19:11
1
@Malkin Ah, nice! I didn't have access to a spread sheet while sitting in my comfy chair by the fire last night, so had to rely on pencil and paper to find something that worked. So I started with $82-x=x-28$ with solution $x=55$. I then took $61-x=x-19$ with solution $x=40$. So, I needed to increase the latter solution by $15$ by adding pairs of $a$ and $a'$. Using $59$ and $65$ the solution would increase (or decrease) by $3$. Using $15$ and $51$ it increases or decreases by $18$ ... bingo! (well, it took more work that that: I looked at all pairs, and noted their solutions and differences)
– Bram28
Dec 20 '18 at 19:50
add a comment |
There's of course
$$
frac{1 + x}{1} = frac{1}{x} ~~~mbox{and}~~~ frac{x}{1} = frac{1}{x + 1}
$$
These two don't have any integer roots, but they have the golden ratio as one
OP is "looking for an equation that makes sense when read upside-down, where the two equations share a root." Upside-down, we get nothing.
– Mohammad Zuhair Khan
Dec 19 '18 at 19:33
@MohammadZuhairKhan Upside-down reads the same
– caverac
Dec 19 '18 at 19:39
4
Well, not before you edited it. +1
– Mohammad Zuhair Khan
Dec 19 '18 at 19:44
1
@MohammadZuhairKhan Fair enough :)
– caverac
Dec 19 '18 at 23:26
Thanks for this. Your idea of starting with the golden ratio is nice, given its connection with its reciprocal. I will play with this starting point and try to shoehorn in some 8s and 6s, to make the equation a little more "interesting".
– Malkin
Dec 20 '18 at 19:12
|
show 1 more comment
I think $0=(x-1)(x-1)$ does it.
Maybe $0=(x-6)(x-1)$ shares only one root.
add a comment |
The answers by @caverac and @Bram28 very much helped me to come to some answers of my own.
My method has been to guess at the form of an equation, such as $ frac{x+a}{b} + c = frac{x+1}{d}$, which can be rotated to give $ frac{d'}{1+x}=c'+frac{b'}{a'+x} $, where $a$, $b$, $c$ and $d$ are constants that can be read as $a'$, $b'$, $c'$ and $d'$ when rotated.
I then used a fairly simple Excel spreadsheet to search for equations of this form that share solutions with their rotated forms, with the constants being selected from the set of all one or two digit numbers that can be read upside down:
$$S={1,8,6,9,11,18,81,16,61,19,91,88,86,68,89,98,66,99,69,96}$$
(I have not included $5$ because my own written $5$s don't look like $5$s when upside down.)
The above form delivered no results. Neither did the forms $frac{x}{a} =b- frac{1-x}{c}$ or $frac{a-x}{b} +c= frac{1+x}{d}$.
But the form $ frac{x+a}{b} =c- frac{x-1}{d}$ delivered the equation:
$$ frac{x+61}{6} =1- frac{x-1}{8}$$
which shares an integer root with its rotated form, and:
$$ frac{x+61}{8} =6- frac{x-1}{16}$$
which shares a rational root with its rotated form.
I guess that more examples could be found by trying other equation forms; by including three digit numbers in $S$; or by allowing the constants to be sums of numbers from $S$, for example $a=14=8+6$ with $a'=17=9+8$.
Nice! Thanks for sharing!
– Bram28
Dec 29 '18 at 19:00
add a comment |
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4 Answers
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4 Answers
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If I may be allowed to use $2$ and $5$ as well (their digital representations can be flipped ... and result in themselves):
$$frac{82-x}{59+61-x+51}=frac{x-28}{65+x-19+15}$$
Both original and flipped version have $x=55$ as a solution
Here is a digitized version:
and its flipped version:
Thanks a lot for taking the time to write out the "digitized" version of your example. I will definitely be presenting it as a problem to some of my high school students.
– Malkin
Dec 20 '18 at 19:04
@Malkin You're welcome! I do wish Mathjax just had a font for this :)
– Bram28
Dec 20 '18 at 19:07
Your example is nicely generalisable to equations of the form $frac{x-a}{x-b}=frac{a'-x}{b'-x}$ where $a'$ and $b'$ are the rotated forms of $a$ and $b$ (which may be sums; in your case $b=59+61+51$). A quick search on a spreadsheet for examples with integer solutions has yielded lots of such equations! For example, $frac{x-81}{98-x}=frac{18-x}{x-86}$
– Malkin
Dec 20 '18 at 19:11
1
@Malkin Ah, nice! I didn't have access to a spread sheet while sitting in my comfy chair by the fire last night, so had to rely on pencil and paper to find something that worked. So I started with $82-x=x-28$ with solution $x=55$. I then took $61-x=x-19$ with solution $x=40$. So, I needed to increase the latter solution by $15$ by adding pairs of $a$ and $a'$. Using $59$ and $65$ the solution would increase (or decrease) by $3$. Using $15$ and $51$ it increases or decreases by $18$ ... bingo! (well, it took more work that that: I looked at all pairs, and noted their solutions and differences)
– Bram28
Dec 20 '18 at 19:50
add a comment |
If I may be allowed to use $2$ and $5$ as well (their digital representations can be flipped ... and result in themselves):
$$frac{82-x}{59+61-x+51}=frac{x-28}{65+x-19+15}$$
Both original and flipped version have $x=55$ as a solution
Here is a digitized version:
and its flipped version:
Thanks a lot for taking the time to write out the "digitized" version of your example. I will definitely be presenting it as a problem to some of my high school students.
– Malkin
Dec 20 '18 at 19:04
@Malkin You're welcome! I do wish Mathjax just had a font for this :)
– Bram28
Dec 20 '18 at 19:07
Your example is nicely generalisable to equations of the form $frac{x-a}{x-b}=frac{a'-x}{b'-x}$ where $a'$ and $b'$ are the rotated forms of $a$ and $b$ (which may be sums; in your case $b=59+61+51$). A quick search on a spreadsheet for examples with integer solutions has yielded lots of such equations! For example, $frac{x-81}{98-x}=frac{18-x}{x-86}$
– Malkin
Dec 20 '18 at 19:11
1
@Malkin Ah, nice! I didn't have access to a spread sheet while sitting in my comfy chair by the fire last night, so had to rely on pencil and paper to find something that worked. So I started with $82-x=x-28$ with solution $x=55$. I then took $61-x=x-19$ with solution $x=40$. So, I needed to increase the latter solution by $15$ by adding pairs of $a$ and $a'$. Using $59$ and $65$ the solution would increase (or decrease) by $3$. Using $15$ and $51$ it increases or decreases by $18$ ... bingo! (well, it took more work that that: I looked at all pairs, and noted their solutions and differences)
– Bram28
Dec 20 '18 at 19:50
add a comment |
If I may be allowed to use $2$ and $5$ as well (their digital representations can be flipped ... and result in themselves):
$$frac{82-x}{59+61-x+51}=frac{x-28}{65+x-19+15}$$
Both original and flipped version have $x=55$ as a solution
Here is a digitized version:
and its flipped version:
If I may be allowed to use $2$ and $5$ as well (their digital representations can be flipped ... and result in themselves):
$$frac{82-x}{59+61-x+51}=frac{x-28}{65+x-19+15}$$
Both original and flipped version have $x=55$ as a solution
Here is a digitized version:
and its flipped version:
edited Dec 20 '18 at 15:13
answered Dec 20 '18 at 4:56
Bram28
60.3k44590
60.3k44590
Thanks a lot for taking the time to write out the "digitized" version of your example. I will definitely be presenting it as a problem to some of my high school students.
– Malkin
Dec 20 '18 at 19:04
@Malkin You're welcome! I do wish Mathjax just had a font for this :)
– Bram28
Dec 20 '18 at 19:07
Your example is nicely generalisable to equations of the form $frac{x-a}{x-b}=frac{a'-x}{b'-x}$ where $a'$ and $b'$ are the rotated forms of $a$ and $b$ (which may be sums; in your case $b=59+61+51$). A quick search on a spreadsheet for examples with integer solutions has yielded lots of such equations! For example, $frac{x-81}{98-x}=frac{18-x}{x-86}$
– Malkin
Dec 20 '18 at 19:11
1
@Malkin Ah, nice! I didn't have access to a spread sheet while sitting in my comfy chair by the fire last night, so had to rely on pencil and paper to find something that worked. So I started with $82-x=x-28$ with solution $x=55$. I then took $61-x=x-19$ with solution $x=40$. So, I needed to increase the latter solution by $15$ by adding pairs of $a$ and $a'$. Using $59$ and $65$ the solution would increase (or decrease) by $3$. Using $15$ and $51$ it increases or decreases by $18$ ... bingo! (well, it took more work that that: I looked at all pairs, and noted their solutions and differences)
– Bram28
Dec 20 '18 at 19:50
add a comment |
Thanks a lot for taking the time to write out the "digitized" version of your example. I will definitely be presenting it as a problem to some of my high school students.
– Malkin
Dec 20 '18 at 19:04
@Malkin You're welcome! I do wish Mathjax just had a font for this :)
– Bram28
Dec 20 '18 at 19:07
Your example is nicely generalisable to equations of the form $frac{x-a}{x-b}=frac{a'-x}{b'-x}$ where $a'$ and $b'$ are the rotated forms of $a$ and $b$ (which may be sums; in your case $b=59+61+51$). A quick search on a spreadsheet for examples with integer solutions has yielded lots of such equations! For example, $frac{x-81}{98-x}=frac{18-x}{x-86}$
– Malkin
Dec 20 '18 at 19:11
1
@Malkin Ah, nice! I didn't have access to a spread sheet while sitting in my comfy chair by the fire last night, so had to rely on pencil and paper to find something that worked. So I started with $82-x=x-28$ with solution $x=55$. I then took $61-x=x-19$ with solution $x=40$. So, I needed to increase the latter solution by $15$ by adding pairs of $a$ and $a'$. Using $59$ and $65$ the solution would increase (or decrease) by $3$. Using $15$ and $51$ it increases or decreases by $18$ ... bingo! (well, it took more work that that: I looked at all pairs, and noted their solutions and differences)
– Bram28
Dec 20 '18 at 19:50
Thanks a lot for taking the time to write out the "digitized" version of your example. I will definitely be presenting it as a problem to some of my high school students.
– Malkin
Dec 20 '18 at 19:04
Thanks a lot for taking the time to write out the "digitized" version of your example. I will definitely be presenting it as a problem to some of my high school students.
– Malkin
Dec 20 '18 at 19:04
@Malkin You're welcome! I do wish Mathjax just had a font for this :)
– Bram28
Dec 20 '18 at 19:07
@Malkin You're welcome! I do wish Mathjax just had a font for this :)
– Bram28
Dec 20 '18 at 19:07
Your example is nicely generalisable to equations of the form $frac{x-a}{x-b}=frac{a'-x}{b'-x}$ where $a'$ and $b'$ are the rotated forms of $a$ and $b$ (which may be sums; in your case $b=59+61+51$). A quick search on a spreadsheet for examples with integer solutions has yielded lots of such equations! For example, $frac{x-81}{98-x}=frac{18-x}{x-86}$
– Malkin
Dec 20 '18 at 19:11
Your example is nicely generalisable to equations of the form $frac{x-a}{x-b}=frac{a'-x}{b'-x}$ where $a'$ and $b'$ are the rotated forms of $a$ and $b$ (which may be sums; in your case $b=59+61+51$). A quick search on a spreadsheet for examples with integer solutions has yielded lots of such equations! For example, $frac{x-81}{98-x}=frac{18-x}{x-86}$
– Malkin
Dec 20 '18 at 19:11
1
1
@Malkin Ah, nice! I didn't have access to a spread sheet while sitting in my comfy chair by the fire last night, so had to rely on pencil and paper to find something that worked. So I started with $82-x=x-28$ with solution $x=55$. I then took $61-x=x-19$ with solution $x=40$. So, I needed to increase the latter solution by $15$ by adding pairs of $a$ and $a'$. Using $59$ and $65$ the solution would increase (or decrease) by $3$. Using $15$ and $51$ it increases or decreases by $18$ ... bingo! (well, it took more work that that: I looked at all pairs, and noted their solutions and differences)
– Bram28
Dec 20 '18 at 19:50
@Malkin Ah, nice! I didn't have access to a spread sheet while sitting in my comfy chair by the fire last night, so had to rely on pencil and paper to find something that worked. So I started with $82-x=x-28$ with solution $x=55$. I then took $61-x=x-19$ with solution $x=40$. So, I needed to increase the latter solution by $15$ by adding pairs of $a$ and $a'$. Using $59$ and $65$ the solution would increase (or decrease) by $3$. Using $15$ and $51$ it increases or decreases by $18$ ... bingo! (well, it took more work that that: I looked at all pairs, and noted their solutions and differences)
– Bram28
Dec 20 '18 at 19:50
add a comment |
There's of course
$$
frac{1 + x}{1} = frac{1}{x} ~~~mbox{and}~~~ frac{x}{1} = frac{1}{x + 1}
$$
These two don't have any integer roots, but they have the golden ratio as one
OP is "looking for an equation that makes sense when read upside-down, where the two equations share a root." Upside-down, we get nothing.
– Mohammad Zuhair Khan
Dec 19 '18 at 19:33
@MohammadZuhairKhan Upside-down reads the same
– caverac
Dec 19 '18 at 19:39
4
Well, not before you edited it. +1
– Mohammad Zuhair Khan
Dec 19 '18 at 19:44
1
@MohammadZuhairKhan Fair enough :)
– caverac
Dec 19 '18 at 23:26
Thanks for this. Your idea of starting with the golden ratio is nice, given its connection with its reciprocal. I will play with this starting point and try to shoehorn in some 8s and 6s, to make the equation a little more "interesting".
– Malkin
Dec 20 '18 at 19:12
|
show 1 more comment
There's of course
$$
frac{1 + x}{1} = frac{1}{x} ~~~mbox{and}~~~ frac{x}{1} = frac{1}{x + 1}
$$
These two don't have any integer roots, but they have the golden ratio as one
OP is "looking for an equation that makes sense when read upside-down, where the two equations share a root." Upside-down, we get nothing.
– Mohammad Zuhair Khan
Dec 19 '18 at 19:33
@MohammadZuhairKhan Upside-down reads the same
– caverac
Dec 19 '18 at 19:39
4
Well, not before you edited it. +1
– Mohammad Zuhair Khan
Dec 19 '18 at 19:44
1
@MohammadZuhairKhan Fair enough :)
– caverac
Dec 19 '18 at 23:26
Thanks for this. Your idea of starting with the golden ratio is nice, given its connection with its reciprocal. I will play with this starting point and try to shoehorn in some 8s and 6s, to make the equation a little more "interesting".
– Malkin
Dec 20 '18 at 19:12
|
show 1 more comment
There's of course
$$
frac{1 + x}{1} = frac{1}{x} ~~~mbox{and}~~~ frac{x}{1} = frac{1}{x + 1}
$$
These two don't have any integer roots, but they have the golden ratio as one
There's of course
$$
frac{1 + x}{1} = frac{1}{x} ~~~mbox{and}~~~ frac{x}{1} = frac{1}{x + 1}
$$
These two don't have any integer roots, but they have the golden ratio as one
edited Dec 20 '18 at 2:50
iBug
1449
1449
answered Dec 19 '18 at 19:31
caverac
13.7k21030
13.7k21030
OP is "looking for an equation that makes sense when read upside-down, where the two equations share a root." Upside-down, we get nothing.
– Mohammad Zuhair Khan
Dec 19 '18 at 19:33
@MohammadZuhairKhan Upside-down reads the same
– caverac
Dec 19 '18 at 19:39
4
Well, not before you edited it. +1
– Mohammad Zuhair Khan
Dec 19 '18 at 19:44
1
@MohammadZuhairKhan Fair enough :)
– caverac
Dec 19 '18 at 23:26
Thanks for this. Your idea of starting with the golden ratio is nice, given its connection with its reciprocal. I will play with this starting point and try to shoehorn in some 8s and 6s, to make the equation a little more "interesting".
– Malkin
Dec 20 '18 at 19:12
|
show 1 more comment
OP is "looking for an equation that makes sense when read upside-down, where the two equations share a root." Upside-down, we get nothing.
– Mohammad Zuhair Khan
Dec 19 '18 at 19:33
@MohammadZuhairKhan Upside-down reads the same
– caverac
Dec 19 '18 at 19:39
4
Well, not before you edited it. +1
– Mohammad Zuhair Khan
Dec 19 '18 at 19:44
1
@MohammadZuhairKhan Fair enough :)
– caverac
Dec 19 '18 at 23:26
Thanks for this. Your idea of starting with the golden ratio is nice, given its connection with its reciprocal. I will play with this starting point and try to shoehorn in some 8s and 6s, to make the equation a little more "interesting".
– Malkin
Dec 20 '18 at 19:12
OP is "looking for an equation that makes sense when read upside-down, where the two equations share a root." Upside-down, we get nothing.
– Mohammad Zuhair Khan
Dec 19 '18 at 19:33
OP is "looking for an equation that makes sense when read upside-down, where the two equations share a root." Upside-down, we get nothing.
– Mohammad Zuhair Khan
Dec 19 '18 at 19:33
@MohammadZuhairKhan Upside-down reads the same
– caverac
Dec 19 '18 at 19:39
@MohammadZuhairKhan Upside-down reads the same
– caverac
Dec 19 '18 at 19:39
4
4
Well, not before you edited it. +1
– Mohammad Zuhair Khan
Dec 19 '18 at 19:44
Well, not before you edited it. +1
– Mohammad Zuhair Khan
Dec 19 '18 at 19:44
1
1
@MohammadZuhairKhan Fair enough :)
– caverac
Dec 19 '18 at 23:26
@MohammadZuhairKhan Fair enough :)
– caverac
Dec 19 '18 at 23:26
Thanks for this. Your idea of starting with the golden ratio is nice, given its connection with its reciprocal. I will play with this starting point and try to shoehorn in some 8s and 6s, to make the equation a little more "interesting".
– Malkin
Dec 20 '18 at 19:12
Thanks for this. Your idea of starting with the golden ratio is nice, given its connection with its reciprocal. I will play with this starting point and try to shoehorn in some 8s and 6s, to make the equation a little more "interesting".
– Malkin
Dec 20 '18 at 19:12
|
show 1 more comment
I think $0=(x-1)(x-1)$ does it.
Maybe $0=(x-6)(x-1)$ shares only one root.
add a comment |
I think $0=(x-1)(x-1)$ does it.
Maybe $0=(x-6)(x-1)$ shares only one root.
add a comment |
I think $0=(x-1)(x-1)$ does it.
Maybe $0=(x-6)(x-1)$ shares only one root.
I think $0=(x-1)(x-1)$ does it.
Maybe $0=(x-6)(x-1)$ shares only one root.
edited Dec 19 '18 at 19:42
answered Dec 19 '18 at 19:36
Karl
3,41131122
3,41131122
add a comment |
add a comment |
The answers by @caverac and @Bram28 very much helped me to come to some answers of my own.
My method has been to guess at the form of an equation, such as $ frac{x+a}{b} + c = frac{x+1}{d}$, which can be rotated to give $ frac{d'}{1+x}=c'+frac{b'}{a'+x} $, where $a$, $b$, $c$ and $d$ are constants that can be read as $a'$, $b'$, $c'$ and $d'$ when rotated.
I then used a fairly simple Excel spreadsheet to search for equations of this form that share solutions with their rotated forms, with the constants being selected from the set of all one or two digit numbers that can be read upside down:
$$S={1,8,6,9,11,18,81,16,61,19,91,88,86,68,89,98,66,99,69,96}$$
(I have not included $5$ because my own written $5$s don't look like $5$s when upside down.)
The above form delivered no results. Neither did the forms $frac{x}{a} =b- frac{1-x}{c}$ or $frac{a-x}{b} +c= frac{1+x}{d}$.
But the form $ frac{x+a}{b} =c- frac{x-1}{d}$ delivered the equation:
$$ frac{x+61}{6} =1- frac{x-1}{8}$$
which shares an integer root with its rotated form, and:
$$ frac{x+61}{8} =6- frac{x-1}{16}$$
which shares a rational root with its rotated form.
I guess that more examples could be found by trying other equation forms; by including three digit numbers in $S$; or by allowing the constants to be sums of numbers from $S$, for example $a=14=8+6$ with $a'=17=9+8$.
Nice! Thanks for sharing!
– Bram28
Dec 29 '18 at 19:00
add a comment |
The answers by @caverac and @Bram28 very much helped me to come to some answers of my own.
My method has been to guess at the form of an equation, such as $ frac{x+a}{b} + c = frac{x+1}{d}$, which can be rotated to give $ frac{d'}{1+x}=c'+frac{b'}{a'+x} $, where $a$, $b$, $c$ and $d$ are constants that can be read as $a'$, $b'$, $c'$ and $d'$ when rotated.
I then used a fairly simple Excel spreadsheet to search for equations of this form that share solutions with their rotated forms, with the constants being selected from the set of all one or two digit numbers that can be read upside down:
$$S={1,8,6,9,11,18,81,16,61,19,91,88,86,68,89,98,66,99,69,96}$$
(I have not included $5$ because my own written $5$s don't look like $5$s when upside down.)
The above form delivered no results. Neither did the forms $frac{x}{a} =b- frac{1-x}{c}$ or $frac{a-x}{b} +c= frac{1+x}{d}$.
But the form $ frac{x+a}{b} =c- frac{x-1}{d}$ delivered the equation:
$$ frac{x+61}{6} =1- frac{x-1}{8}$$
which shares an integer root with its rotated form, and:
$$ frac{x+61}{8} =6- frac{x-1}{16}$$
which shares a rational root with its rotated form.
I guess that more examples could be found by trying other equation forms; by including three digit numbers in $S$; or by allowing the constants to be sums of numbers from $S$, for example $a=14=8+6$ with $a'=17=9+8$.
Nice! Thanks for sharing!
– Bram28
Dec 29 '18 at 19:00
add a comment |
The answers by @caverac and @Bram28 very much helped me to come to some answers of my own.
My method has been to guess at the form of an equation, such as $ frac{x+a}{b} + c = frac{x+1}{d}$, which can be rotated to give $ frac{d'}{1+x}=c'+frac{b'}{a'+x} $, where $a$, $b$, $c$ and $d$ are constants that can be read as $a'$, $b'$, $c'$ and $d'$ when rotated.
I then used a fairly simple Excel spreadsheet to search for equations of this form that share solutions with their rotated forms, with the constants being selected from the set of all one or two digit numbers that can be read upside down:
$$S={1,8,6,9,11,18,81,16,61,19,91,88,86,68,89,98,66,99,69,96}$$
(I have not included $5$ because my own written $5$s don't look like $5$s when upside down.)
The above form delivered no results. Neither did the forms $frac{x}{a} =b- frac{1-x}{c}$ or $frac{a-x}{b} +c= frac{1+x}{d}$.
But the form $ frac{x+a}{b} =c- frac{x-1}{d}$ delivered the equation:
$$ frac{x+61}{6} =1- frac{x-1}{8}$$
which shares an integer root with its rotated form, and:
$$ frac{x+61}{8} =6- frac{x-1}{16}$$
which shares a rational root with its rotated form.
I guess that more examples could be found by trying other equation forms; by including three digit numbers in $S$; or by allowing the constants to be sums of numbers from $S$, for example $a=14=8+6$ with $a'=17=9+8$.
The answers by @caverac and @Bram28 very much helped me to come to some answers of my own.
My method has been to guess at the form of an equation, such as $ frac{x+a}{b} + c = frac{x+1}{d}$, which can be rotated to give $ frac{d'}{1+x}=c'+frac{b'}{a'+x} $, where $a$, $b$, $c$ and $d$ are constants that can be read as $a'$, $b'$, $c'$ and $d'$ when rotated.
I then used a fairly simple Excel spreadsheet to search for equations of this form that share solutions with their rotated forms, with the constants being selected from the set of all one or two digit numbers that can be read upside down:
$$S={1,8,6,9,11,18,81,16,61,19,91,88,86,68,89,98,66,99,69,96}$$
(I have not included $5$ because my own written $5$s don't look like $5$s when upside down.)
The above form delivered no results. Neither did the forms $frac{x}{a} =b- frac{1-x}{c}$ or $frac{a-x}{b} +c= frac{1+x}{d}$.
But the form $ frac{x+a}{b} =c- frac{x-1}{d}$ delivered the equation:
$$ frac{x+61}{6} =1- frac{x-1}{8}$$
which shares an integer root with its rotated form, and:
$$ frac{x+61}{8} =6- frac{x-1}{16}$$
which shares a rational root with its rotated form.
I guess that more examples could be found by trying other equation forms; by including three digit numbers in $S$; or by allowing the constants to be sums of numbers from $S$, for example $a=14=8+6$ with $a'=17=9+8$.
edited 13 hours ago
answered Dec 29 '18 at 18:51
Malkin
1,514726
1,514726
Nice! Thanks for sharing!
– Bram28
Dec 29 '18 at 19:00
add a comment |
Nice! Thanks for sharing!
– Bram28
Dec 29 '18 at 19:00
Nice! Thanks for sharing!
– Bram28
Dec 29 '18 at 19:00
Nice! Thanks for sharing!
– Bram28
Dec 29 '18 at 19:00
add a comment |
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5
This is simpler than you’re asking for, but the solution to $mathsf{66-6x=0}$ is $mathsf{x=l,l}$ . If you turn the equation and the solution upside down, you get $mathsf{0=x9-99}$ and $,mathsf{l,l=x}$ , which is still correct. Maybe there’s a way to hide this in something more interesting.
– Steve Kass
Dec 19 '18 at 20:33
By 'upside-down' do youy mean rotated by 180 degrees, or reflected in a horizontal axis? This makes a difference; the one allows you to use sixes and nines, the other allows you to use threes.
– Servaes
Dec 20 '18 at 10:55
2
@Servaes have a read of the sentence between the two images. The problem is similar if the equation is reflection, though: I set this as an extension problem!
– Malkin
Dec 20 '18 at 18:17
2
Here is an Aperiodical article on this exact topic: aperiodical.com/2018/12/….
– Peter Kagey
Dec 21 '18 at 17:36