What's the point of having a locked door if the players can just destroy it?












52












$begingroup$


A lock may be picked or a lock may be broken after a few attempts, but what stops the players from just destroying the locked object? Especially wooden doors, but even iron doors or wooden chests, all have AC and HP according to the rules.



Four or five characters with a crowbar will eventually open any door orchest that's not magically locked. Or should the DM not allow multiple attempts to destroy an object?



I've always read about how DMs should not ask players to roll when there are no consequences to the roll. And there is no consequence unless the door can somehow remain blocked after a few failed attempts.






dnd-5e dungeon-design







share|improve this question











$endgroup$








  • 3




    $begingroup$
    @corsiKa See this FAQ for why your comment was removed. Thanks!
    $endgroup$
    – SevenSidedDie♦
    Jan 1 at 6:49










  • $begingroup$
    Just wondering - what makes you think the real world is any different to the game world in this context; because it's the exact same answer?
    $endgroup$
    – UKMonkey
    Jan 4 at 10:25












  • $begingroup$
    @UKMonkey well that's the point, in the real world, sometimes you just can't open a door.
    $endgroup$
    – Alex Parvan
    Jan 5 at 8:30
















52












$begingroup$


A lock may be picked or a lock may be broken after a few attempts, but what stops the players from just destroying the locked object? Especially wooden doors, but even iron doors or wooden chests, all have AC and HP according to the rules.



Four or five characters with a crowbar will eventually open any door orchest that's not magically locked. Or should the DM not allow multiple attempts to destroy an object?



I've always read about how DMs should not ask players to roll when there are no consequences to the roll. And there is no consequence unless the door can somehow remain blocked after a few failed attempts.






dnd-5e dungeon-design







share|improve this question











$endgroup$








  • 3




    $begingroup$
    @corsiKa See this FAQ for why your comment was removed. Thanks!
    $endgroup$
    – SevenSidedDie♦
    Jan 1 at 6:49










  • $begingroup$
    Just wondering - what makes you think the real world is any different to the game world in this context; because it's the exact same answer?
    $endgroup$
    – UKMonkey
    Jan 4 at 10:25












  • $begingroup$
    @UKMonkey well that's the point, in the real world, sometimes you just can't open a door.
    $endgroup$
    – Alex Parvan
    Jan 5 at 8:30














52












52








52


7



$begingroup$


A lock may be picked or a lock may be broken after a few attempts, but what stops the players from just destroying the locked object? Especially wooden doors, but even iron doors or wooden chests, all have AC and HP according to the rules.



Four or five characters with a crowbar will eventually open any door orchest that's not magically locked. Or should the DM not allow multiple attempts to destroy an object?



I've always read about how DMs should not ask players to roll when there are no consequences to the roll. And there is no consequence unless the door can somehow remain blocked after a few failed attempts.






dnd-5e dungeon-design







share|improve this question











$endgroup$




A lock may be picked or a lock may be broken after a few attempts, but what stops the players from just destroying the locked object? Especially wooden doors, but even iron doors or wooden chests, all have AC and HP according to the rules.



Four or five characters with a crowbar will eventually open any door orchest that's not magically locked. Or should the DM not allow multiple attempts to destroy an object?



I've always read about how DMs should not ask players to roll when there are no consequences to the roll. And there is no consequence unless the door can somehow remain blocked after a few failed attempts.






dnd-5e dungeon-design




dnd-5e dungeon-design






share|improve this question















share|improve this question













share|improve this question




share|improve this question








edited Jan 1 at 0:28









SevenSidedDie♦

206k30661937




206k30661937










asked Dec 31 '18 at 6:51









Alex ParvanAlex Parvan

48728




48728








  • 3




    $begingroup$
    @corsiKa See this FAQ for why your comment was removed. Thanks!
    $endgroup$
    – SevenSidedDie♦
    Jan 1 at 6:49










  • $begingroup$
    Just wondering - what makes you think the real world is any different to the game world in this context; because it's the exact same answer?
    $endgroup$
    – UKMonkey
    Jan 4 at 10:25












  • $begingroup$
    @UKMonkey well that's the point, in the real world, sometimes you just can't open a door.
    $endgroup$
    – Alex Parvan
    Jan 5 at 8:30














  • 3




    $begingroup$
    @corsiKa See this FAQ for why your comment was removed. Thanks!
    $endgroup$
    – SevenSidedDie♦
    Jan 1 at 6:49










  • $begingroup$
    Just wondering - what makes you think the real world is any different to the game world in this context; because it's the exact same answer?
    $endgroup$
    – UKMonkey
    Jan 4 at 10:25












  • $begingroup$
    @UKMonkey well that's the point, in the real world, sometimes you just can't open a door.
    $endgroup$
    – Alex Parvan
    Jan 5 at 8:30








3




3




$begingroup$
@corsiKa See this FAQ for why your comment was removed. Thanks!
$endgroup$
– SevenSidedDie♦
Jan 1 at 6:49




$begingroup$
@corsiKa See this FAQ for why your comment was removed. Thanks!
$endgroup$
– SevenSidedDie♦
Jan 1 at 6:49












$begingroup$
Just wondering - what makes you think the real world is any different to the game world in this context; because it's the exact same answer?
$endgroup$
– UKMonkey
Jan 4 at 10:25






$begingroup$
Just wondering - what makes you think the real world is any different to the game world in this context; because it's the exact same answer?
$endgroup$
– UKMonkey
Jan 4 at 10:25














$begingroup$
@UKMonkey well that's the point, in the real world, sometimes you just can't open a door.
$endgroup$
– Alex Parvan
Jan 5 at 8:30




$begingroup$
@UKMonkey well that's the point, in the real world, sometimes you just can't open a door.
$endgroup$
– Alex Parvan
Jan 5 at 8:30










8 Answers
8






active

oldest

votes


















130












$begingroup$

When it comes to doors and chests, it really helps to think of them in terms of real objects and interactions.



For example, My house has a front door. It's made of wood and I always lock it when I leave, so people can't get in. Next to my front door, there's a massive 2x2 meter window (AC 10, 1hp) and anyone who wants to get in my house can just chuck a brick through it and go inside.



What stops them from doing this? Certainly not the stats of the window. More likely, the fact that trashing the window alerts the entire neighbourhood, will get the police called and make it very clear to anyone observing that a crime is happening. The exact same thing would happen if they bust down the door with a crowbar. Of course, if they come up with a key, or are good with a lock pick, nobody will bat an eye and they can rob the place with impunity.



If you present your players with the obstacle of a locked door in a vacuum, nothing stops them from tearing it down and rolling probably isn't necessary. At that point, your door is just there for variety and because it makes sense, but it isn't an obstacle.



But someone probably put that door there for a reason. What happens when others notice that the door is being dismantled, that's the real obstacle. A roll is required when you want to bust the door down and get through before the guards arrive, and a lock pick is preferred when you don't want every casual onlooker to see that you're busting into some place.



Lacking caring onlookers, locked objects are mostly just a short roadblock to a determined attacker. But that's the same in reality. Either you have the tools to dismantle the object, or you don't.






share|improve this answer











$endgroup$









  • 6




    $begingroup$
    I'd also note that some doors would be much harder or even impossible to break down with simple tools and a lack of magic. This could be steel prison doors or thick 5m high doors outside a palace. The latter would probably be locked with something other than a key, but still...
    $endgroup$
    – Brian R
    Dec 31 '18 at 14:54






  • 11




    $begingroup$
    This is a good answer. It might be worth mentioning that doors and other locked objects can be trapped, and it's possible that breaking into it might set a trap off differently than picking the lock.
    $endgroup$
    – Jack
    Dec 31 '18 at 22:20






  • 5




    $begingroup$
    Also, some items can be rigged in a way that breaking them open ruins their contents (think of a metal scroll case with a small chamber of alchemist fire or acid inside it - break it open and the scrolls are destroyed...)
    $endgroup$
    – G0BLiN
    Jan 1 at 17:46






  • 4




    $begingroup$
    Another factor: Wrecking a door makes a lot of noise, alerting everybody around that something untoward is going down, even if they can't see it.
    $endgroup$
    – T.J.L.
    Jan 2 at 14:54








  • 1




    $begingroup$
    @G0BLiN even without that, if you go ham on a chest just to break it apart, you might just break the potions or the magic items inside it.
    $endgroup$
    – John Hamilton
    Jan 4 at 8:38



















41












$begingroup$

Breaking down doors is loud, doors have uses, and some doors are much harder to break down than others.



Breaking down doors is loud. Unlike picking a lock, smashing a lock is a loud and attention attracting activity. Monsters can pinpoint your player's location and prepare an ambush, flee with treasure, and generally do a lot of unpleasant things. Enemies can find the broken door and track you down. If there's no monsters close by then, have at it. No consequences, no time pressure, let them succeed.



Doors have uses. They stop people entering places. If you leave a door intact you can use it to bar enemies, you can use it to lock someone in places, you can use it to be more stealthy. There are often good reasons to leave barriers intact. Picking a lock gives you control over that lock, in that there is still a door to be locked or barred. Likewise, chests have uses, they keep items safe- if you smash them, those items are not gonna be happy.



Some doors are much harder to break down than others. Some doors have heavy bars on them, or are made of iron or steel or magical materials. Some are giant stone columns that only open if you say friend in elvish. For these doors the lock picking roll might be much lower than the breaking roll, so it will be much faster and actually feasible to pick the lock than smash it.






share|improve this answer











$endgroup$









  • 12




    $begingroup$
    I’d object to “Picking a lock gives you control over that lock.” Neither in the rules or in real life does picking a lock give you an easier way to control a lock. To relock it you have to re-pick it, and to unlock it again you have to pick it a third time, etc. You might get some advantage for familiarity (in real life or from a generous DM).
    $endgroup$
    – SevenSidedDie♦
    Dec 31 '18 at 14:08








  • 6




    $begingroup$
    I'd add, breaking down a door leaves evidence behind.
    $endgroup$
    – Dave Costa
    Dec 31 '18 at 14:39






  • 1




    $begingroup$
    And it takes time to deal with the door, possibly leading to wandering monsters happening by,
    $endgroup$
    – LAK
    Dec 31 '18 at 14:47










  • $begingroup$
    I was more saying that you had more control over the lock than if it was kindling than absolute control, but I will clarify. And I'll add the point about evidence being left behind.
    $endgroup$
    – Nepene Nep
    Jan 2 at 0:01






  • 4




    $begingroup$
    @SevenSidedDie Real life has many designs of locks that can be locked without a key, whether simply by closing the door, or rotating a little switch, or pressing a button. And yes, all of these can be done with purely mechanical designs. Some of these can even be unlocked without a key or picking them, if you're on the right side. So while picking a lock might not give you complete control over it, it's not an automatic guarantee that you'll have no control at all.
    $endgroup$
    – 8bittree
    Jan 2 at 18:33



















14












$begingroup$

We can look to real life to gain some insight:



Bank vaults in the US are rated to 4 different possibilities against forced entry:





  • M 15 minutes

  • Class I 30 minutes

  • Class II 60 minutes

  • Class III 120 minutes




Classified storage of national security secrets also have door certifications, the Class 5 vault doors being:





  • 20 man-hours against surreptitious entry.

  • 30 man-minutes against covert entry.

  • 10 man-minutes against forced entry.




The door will only slow down a determined attacker, which is why there are also provisions for other required security:





  1. For Top Secret information stored outside the United States, one or more of the following supplemental security controls is
    required:

    (a) The area that houses the security container or vault
    will be subject to the continuous protection of guard or duty
    personnel;

    (b) Guard or duty personnel will inspect the security
    container or vault at least once every 2 hours; or

    (c) The security
    container or vault will be controlled by an alarm system to which a
    force will respond in person within 15 minutes.




Bottom line: if modern national security vaults and banks can be breached in a matter of minutes via force, it's pretty likely dungeon doors and chests can as well. Add other security features if you want to truly secure something... and if they've killed all the guards, it's pretty reasonable to assume they can bang their way into almost anything if they want to take the time to do it.



The way our DM has protected chests in the past is having a manufacturer's notice in common that reads:




WARNING: Thank you for buying Thurlin's Secure Storage: this chest contains an anti-tamper acid ampule. Excessive movement or lifting of the lid without disengaging the lock will damage or destroy the contents of the chest.




and when we got used to breaking into those we ran into a:




WARNING: this chest contains explosive run... - boom







share|improve this answer









$endgroup$









  • 1




    $begingroup$
    I am reminded of the original Castle Wolfenstein game for Apple ][ where you could shoot chests to open them more quickly, unless they contained explosives....
    $endgroup$
    – Robert Columbia
    Jan 1 at 0:34










  • $begingroup$
    Hey, these are really good suggestions. Thank you.
    $endgroup$
    – Alex Parvan
    Jan 3 at 9:01






  • 2




    $begingroup$
    "I prepared Explosive Runes this morning"
    $endgroup$
    – Alastair Campbell
    Jan 3 at 12:47










  • $begingroup$
    +1 for pointing out that the answer in real life is the same as in game. It's not about stopping people, it's about making it obvious when someone shouldn't be there / buying time.
    $endgroup$
    – UKMonkey
    Jan 4 at 10:26










  • $begingroup$
    @UKMonkey Another bit for real-life (which is less applicable to games) is being able to tell someone tampered with/got into your stuff. The rating on "surreptitious entry," which is defined as sneaking in where even a trained expert can't tell it was breached, is a good example. They require it to take 120 times longer to get into the vault where no one could tell they had gotten in compared to a forced entry.
    $endgroup$
    – TemporalWolf
    Jan 4 at 19:02



















13












$begingroup$

If there is no downside to breaking down a door compared to unlocking it, there is no point in choosing one over the other (except for ability to do either)



Unlocking a door is quiet, and does not necessarily alert the next room of monsters that the players have arrived. Breaking down a door is a messy and loud affair. If any subterfuge is needed for players (be it in a noble's house or a dungeon) then breaking down the door is obviously not the best idea.



If there are no consequences for actions the players take, then they can do whatever they want with no fear of reprisal.



A possible solution to players breaking down doors willy-nilly is by making such objects have a damage threshold that means below the damage value the door cannot be hurt at all. This is a possibly confusing mechanic to spring on your players, so mentioning it beforehand would likely be a good idea.






share|improve this answer











$endgroup$





















    12












    $begingroup$

    Everyone is talking about doors, but you also ask about chests. If you break open a chest, in Real Life, there's a fair chance that whatever's inside will get damaged, right? If there's something fragile inside, it might get smashed. If there's liquid inside, (inside a fragile bottle, for instance,) it might stain other items in the chest, for example making a precious scroll unreadable. You could introduce consequences to breaking the chest open instead of unlocking it.






    share|improve this answer









    $endgroup$













    • $begingroup$
      Netback does this well. Kick a door and you attract monsters with noise. Kick a chest to force the lock and there is a good chance of destroying any potion or other fragile item inside. Kick a shopkeeper's door and if you're lucky he will demand you pay for it, or else will just attack.
      $endgroup$
      – Adam Eberbach
      Jan 1 at 22:25










    • $begingroup$
      This is the exact example I would give: collateral damage. As for instance in an early Glass Cannon Podcast episode where the group comes across a locked chest: As it turns out, attempting to break the lock would result in a 75% risk of breaking each item within.
      $endgroup$
      – KlaymenDK
      Jan 2 at 15:00






    • 1




      $begingroup$
      Sounds like a good place to keep a fragile bottle of Greek fire.
      $endgroup$
      – GrandmasterB
      Jan 2 at 21:48



















    8












    $begingroup$

    Oops, I broke my axe



    Weapons used to destroy a door or chest could be damaged in the process...



    I don't think there's any rules about weapons taking damage normally (except some monsters causing corrosion), but it's reasonable that a nice sharp axe or sword could be damaged smashing up stuff made of wood & metal.



    A "smashing" weapon like a hammer, or a crowbar specifically might have no problems, but anything else could be fair game.






    share|improve this answer









    $endgroup$









    • 1




      $begingroup$
      This is a very good point. If you are 8 levels down in a dungeon, is it really wise to be bashing things open with the sword you rely on for protection?
      $endgroup$
      – GrandmasterB
      Jan 2 at 21:50



















    4












    $begingroup$

    Summary: A door is a tactical (sometimes, strategic) element with plenty of uses and a cost to manipulating it. Break it if you are in a hurry and enemies know of you, or if there are no enemies, while leave it functional if there is a chance of using it against your enemies.



    Chests are similar but less complicated.



    Breaking doors makes noise



    Noise alerts creatures. The usual rate of wandering monster checks in large dungeons with mobile inhabitants is, for me, once every ten minutes, with 1/6 chance of encounter. I also roll after noise occurances, such as combat or breaking down doors. And, of course, any nearby creatures will often hear the noise automatically or with good chance. If breaking in takes significant time, that also triggers a wandering monster roll or moves the next one closer.



    This is not an issue in places without wandering inhabitants, such as very small dungeons or ancient sealed tombs.



    A broken door is a sign of forced entry



    This is an issue in civilized or organized dungeons, such as cities and fortresses, or when trying to rob the ancient mage's tower without the ancient mage figuring it out.



    Dead enemies everywhere is also a sign of forced entry, so this might not matter too much in many situations.



    Doors control the movement of others, too



    Wolves and unarmed zombies will have very hard time getting through sturdy wooden doors, even given time. Many enemies will spend at least a moment to penetrate a door, and might not be clever enough to open one. Doors can be barred for further security. In a typical dungeon environment with some animals or weaker creatures, doors can be used for good benefit.



    Also, if one wants to rest within a dungeon, closing and barring a door creates a nice alarm system and might prevent some wandering monsters from reaching you at all.



    Doors control vision (and sound a bit)



    Controlling vision allows hiding and resting and makes ranged attacks a lot harder. Hiding behind a door to run away or surprise someone is a classic maneuver.



    Not everything breaks doors



    A rondel or a sword is not the proper tool for breaking a door - you would get a dull edge or a small hole, which is often not very useful. It would be a waste of a battle axe, too - use a woodcutter's axe or something similar. The rules of D&D 5 leave simulating such concerns on the dungeon master, whose duty it is to keep the game world credible. (We prefer to share this duty among the entire gaming group.)



    The matter of chests



    Chests protect things. Breaking a chest might break those things, or you might want to have a nice chest for other purposes, if it can be carried. The concerns of noise are there, as are leaving tracks.






    share|improve this answer









    $endgroup$





















      3












      $begingroup$

      The lock may actually defeat them




      4-5 guys with a crowbar will eventually open any door/chest that's not magically locked.




      Maybe.



      I no longer have a reference to the article, but a few years ago there were a couple of thieves that figured out they could steal a freestanding ATM by tying a heavy chain around it and dragging it down the road behind their truck.

      After a certain distance most of the pieces came off, however the steel reinforced part that contained the money was intact. At that point they lifted the remaining piece into the truck and drove off.

      (The extra pieces and the scrape marks gouged in the road were easy to follow to that point.)



      At some point after that, they gave up and tossed it into a creek where it was found by the authorities.

      It was bent out of shape, but it still had all of the money inside it.



      Maybe they were too dumb to steal a blowtorch, or maybe they were smart enough to realize that the blowtorch would burn the paper money inside... I don't know which.






      share|improve this answer











      $endgroup$













        Your Answer





        StackExchange.ifUsing("editor", function () {
        return StackExchange.using("mathjaxEditing", function () {
        StackExchange.MarkdownEditor.creationCallbacks.add(function (editor, postfix) {
        StackExchange.mathjaxEditing.prepareWmdForMathJax(editor, postfix, [["\$", "\$"]]);
        });
        });
        }, "mathjax-editing");

        StackExchange.ready(function() {
        var channelOptions = {
        tags: "".split(" "),
        id: "122"
        };
        initTagRenderer("".split(" "), "".split(" "), channelOptions);

        StackExchange.using("externalEditor", function() {
        // Have to fire editor after snippets, if snippets enabled
        if (StackExchange.settings.snippets.snippetsEnabled) {
        StackExchange.using("snippets", function() {
        createEditor();
        });
        }
        else {
        createEditor();
        }
        });

        function createEditor() {
        StackExchange.prepareEditor({
        heartbeatType: 'answer',
        autoActivateHeartbeat: false,
        convertImagesToLinks: false,
        noModals: true,
        showLowRepImageUploadWarning: true,
        reputationToPostImages: null,
        bindNavPrevention: true,
        postfix: "",
        imageUploader: {
        brandingHtml: "Powered by u003ca class="icon-imgur-white" href="https://imgur.com/"u003eu003c/au003e",
        contentPolicyHtml: "User contributions licensed under u003ca href="https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/3.0/"u003ecc by-sa 3.0 with attribution requiredu003c/au003e u003ca href="https://stackoverflow.com/legal/content-policy"u003e(content policy)u003c/au003e",
        allowUrls: true
        },
        noCode: true, onDemand: true,
        discardSelector: ".discard-answer"
        ,immediatelyShowMarkdownHelp:true
        });


        }
        });














        draft saved

        draft discarded


















        StackExchange.ready(
        function () {
        StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2frpg.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f138193%2fwhats-the-point-of-having-a-locked-door-if-the-players-can-just-destroy-it%23new-answer', 'question_page');
        }
        );

        Post as a guest















        Required, but never shown

























        8 Answers
        8






        active

        oldest

        votes








        8 Answers
        8






        active

        oldest

        votes









        active

        oldest

        votes






        active

        oldest

        votes









        130












        $begingroup$

        When it comes to doors and chests, it really helps to think of them in terms of real objects and interactions.



        For example, My house has a front door. It's made of wood and I always lock it when I leave, so people can't get in. Next to my front door, there's a massive 2x2 meter window (AC 10, 1hp) and anyone who wants to get in my house can just chuck a brick through it and go inside.



        What stops them from doing this? Certainly not the stats of the window. More likely, the fact that trashing the window alerts the entire neighbourhood, will get the police called and make it very clear to anyone observing that a crime is happening. The exact same thing would happen if they bust down the door with a crowbar. Of course, if they come up with a key, or are good with a lock pick, nobody will bat an eye and they can rob the place with impunity.



        If you present your players with the obstacle of a locked door in a vacuum, nothing stops them from tearing it down and rolling probably isn't necessary. At that point, your door is just there for variety and because it makes sense, but it isn't an obstacle.



        But someone probably put that door there for a reason. What happens when others notice that the door is being dismantled, that's the real obstacle. A roll is required when you want to bust the door down and get through before the guards arrive, and a lock pick is preferred when you don't want every casual onlooker to see that you're busting into some place.



        Lacking caring onlookers, locked objects are mostly just a short roadblock to a determined attacker. But that's the same in reality. Either you have the tools to dismantle the object, or you don't.






        share|improve this answer











        $endgroup$









        • 6




          $begingroup$
          I'd also note that some doors would be much harder or even impossible to break down with simple tools and a lack of magic. This could be steel prison doors or thick 5m high doors outside a palace. The latter would probably be locked with something other than a key, but still...
          $endgroup$
          – Brian R
          Dec 31 '18 at 14:54






        • 11




          $begingroup$
          This is a good answer. It might be worth mentioning that doors and other locked objects can be trapped, and it's possible that breaking into it might set a trap off differently than picking the lock.
          $endgroup$
          – Jack
          Dec 31 '18 at 22:20






        • 5




          $begingroup$
          Also, some items can be rigged in a way that breaking them open ruins their contents (think of a metal scroll case with a small chamber of alchemist fire or acid inside it - break it open and the scrolls are destroyed...)
          $endgroup$
          – G0BLiN
          Jan 1 at 17:46






        • 4




          $begingroup$
          Another factor: Wrecking a door makes a lot of noise, alerting everybody around that something untoward is going down, even if they can't see it.
          $endgroup$
          – T.J.L.
          Jan 2 at 14:54








        • 1




          $begingroup$
          @G0BLiN even without that, if you go ham on a chest just to break it apart, you might just break the potions or the magic items inside it.
          $endgroup$
          – John Hamilton
          Jan 4 at 8:38
















        130












        $begingroup$

        When it comes to doors and chests, it really helps to think of them in terms of real objects and interactions.



        For example, My house has a front door. It's made of wood and I always lock it when I leave, so people can't get in. Next to my front door, there's a massive 2x2 meter window (AC 10, 1hp) and anyone who wants to get in my house can just chuck a brick through it and go inside.



        What stops them from doing this? Certainly not the stats of the window. More likely, the fact that trashing the window alerts the entire neighbourhood, will get the police called and make it very clear to anyone observing that a crime is happening. The exact same thing would happen if they bust down the door with a crowbar. Of course, if they come up with a key, or are good with a lock pick, nobody will bat an eye and they can rob the place with impunity.



        If you present your players with the obstacle of a locked door in a vacuum, nothing stops them from tearing it down and rolling probably isn't necessary. At that point, your door is just there for variety and because it makes sense, but it isn't an obstacle.



        But someone probably put that door there for a reason. What happens when others notice that the door is being dismantled, that's the real obstacle. A roll is required when you want to bust the door down and get through before the guards arrive, and a lock pick is preferred when you don't want every casual onlooker to see that you're busting into some place.



        Lacking caring onlookers, locked objects are mostly just a short roadblock to a determined attacker. But that's the same in reality. Either you have the tools to dismantle the object, or you don't.






        share|improve this answer











        $endgroup$









        • 6




          $begingroup$
          I'd also note that some doors would be much harder or even impossible to break down with simple tools and a lack of magic. This could be steel prison doors or thick 5m high doors outside a palace. The latter would probably be locked with something other than a key, but still...
          $endgroup$
          – Brian R
          Dec 31 '18 at 14:54






        • 11




          $begingroup$
          This is a good answer. It might be worth mentioning that doors and other locked objects can be trapped, and it's possible that breaking into it might set a trap off differently than picking the lock.
          $endgroup$
          – Jack
          Dec 31 '18 at 22:20






        • 5




          $begingroup$
          Also, some items can be rigged in a way that breaking them open ruins their contents (think of a metal scroll case with a small chamber of alchemist fire or acid inside it - break it open and the scrolls are destroyed...)
          $endgroup$
          – G0BLiN
          Jan 1 at 17:46






        • 4




          $begingroup$
          Another factor: Wrecking a door makes a lot of noise, alerting everybody around that something untoward is going down, even if they can't see it.
          $endgroup$
          – T.J.L.
          Jan 2 at 14:54








        • 1




          $begingroup$
          @G0BLiN even without that, if you go ham on a chest just to break it apart, you might just break the potions or the magic items inside it.
          $endgroup$
          – John Hamilton
          Jan 4 at 8:38














        130












        130








        130





        $begingroup$

        When it comes to doors and chests, it really helps to think of them in terms of real objects and interactions.



        For example, My house has a front door. It's made of wood and I always lock it when I leave, so people can't get in. Next to my front door, there's a massive 2x2 meter window (AC 10, 1hp) and anyone who wants to get in my house can just chuck a brick through it and go inside.



        What stops them from doing this? Certainly not the stats of the window. More likely, the fact that trashing the window alerts the entire neighbourhood, will get the police called and make it very clear to anyone observing that a crime is happening. The exact same thing would happen if they bust down the door with a crowbar. Of course, if they come up with a key, or are good with a lock pick, nobody will bat an eye and they can rob the place with impunity.



        If you present your players with the obstacle of a locked door in a vacuum, nothing stops them from tearing it down and rolling probably isn't necessary. At that point, your door is just there for variety and because it makes sense, but it isn't an obstacle.



        But someone probably put that door there for a reason. What happens when others notice that the door is being dismantled, that's the real obstacle. A roll is required when you want to bust the door down and get through before the guards arrive, and a lock pick is preferred when you don't want every casual onlooker to see that you're busting into some place.



        Lacking caring onlookers, locked objects are mostly just a short roadblock to a determined attacker. But that's the same in reality. Either you have the tools to dismantle the object, or you don't.






        share|improve this answer











        $endgroup$



        When it comes to doors and chests, it really helps to think of them in terms of real objects and interactions.



        For example, My house has a front door. It's made of wood and I always lock it when I leave, so people can't get in. Next to my front door, there's a massive 2x2 meter window (AC 10, 1hp) and anyone who wants to get in my house can just chuck a brick through it and go inside.



        What stops them from doing this? Certainly not the stats of the window. More likely, the fact that trashing the window alerts the entire neighbourhood, will get the police called and make it very clear to anyone observing that a crime is happening. The exact same thing would happen if they bust down the door with a crowbar. Of course, if they come up with a key, or are good with a lock pick, nobody will bat an eye and they can rob the place with impunity.



        If you present your players with the obstacle of a locked door in a vacuum, nothing stops them from tearing it down and rolling probably isn't necessary. At that point, your door is just there for variety and because it makes sense, but it isn't an obstacle.



        But someone probably put that door there for a reason. What happens when others notice that the door is being dismantled, that's the real obstacle. A roll is required when you want to bust the door down and get through before the guards arrive, and a lock pick is preferred when you don't want every casual onlooker to see that you're busting into some place.



        Lacking caring onlookers, locked objects are mostly just a short roadblock to a determined attacker. But that's the same in reality. Either you have the tools to dismantle the object, or you don't.







        share|improve this answer














        share|improve this answer



        share|improve this answer








        edited Jan 3 at 18:52









        Kevin

        54529




        54529










        answered Dec 31 '18 at 8:20









        ErikErik

        45.1k12164231




        45.1k12164231








        • 6




          $begingroup$
          I'd also note that some doors would be much harder or even impossible to break down with simple tools and a lack of magic. This could be steel prison doors or thick 5m high doors outside a palace. The latter would probably be locked with something other than a key, but still...
          $endgroup$
          – Brian R
          Dec 31 '18 at 14:54






        • 11




          $begingroup$
          This is a good answer. It might be worth mentioning that doors and other locked objects can be trapped, and it's possible that breaking into it might set a trap off differently than picking the lock.
          $endgroup$
          – Jack
          Dec 31 '18 at 22:20






        • 5




          $begingroup$
          Also, some items can be rigged in a way that breaking them open ruins their contents (think of a metal scroll case with a small chamber of alchemist fire or acid inside it - break it open and the scrolls are destroyed...)
          $endgroup$
          – G0BLiN
          Jan 1 at 17:46






        • 4




          $begingroup$
          Another factor: Wrecking a door makes a lot of noise, alerting everybody around that something untoward is going down, even if they can't see it.
          $endgroup$
          – T.J.L.
          Jan 2 at 14:54








        • 1




          $begingroup$
          @G0BLiN even without that, if you go ham on a chest just to break it apart, you might just break the potions or the magic items inside it.
          $endgroup$
          – John Hamilton
          Jan 4 at 8:38














        • 6




          $begingroup$
          I'd also note that some doors would be much harder or even impossible to break down with simple tools and a lack of magic. This could be steel prison doors or thick 5m high doors outside a palace. The latter would probably be locked with something other than a key, but still...
          $endgroup$
          – Brian R
          Dec 31 '18 at 14:54






        • 11




          $begingroup$
          This is a good answer. It might be worth mentioning that doors and other locked objects can be trapped, and it's possible that breaking into it might set a trap off differently than picking the lock.
          $endgroup$
          – Jack
          Dec 31 '18 at 22:20






        • 5




          $begingroup$
          Also, some items can be rigged in a way that breaking them open ruins their contents (think of a metal scroll case with a small chamber of alchemist fire or acid inside it - break it open and the scrolls are destroyed...)
          $endgroup$
          – G0BLiN
          Jan 1 at 17:46






        • 4




          $begingroup$
          Another factor: Wrecking a door makes a lot of noise, alerting everybody around that something untoward is going down, even if they can't see it.
          $endgroup$
          – T.J.L.
          Jan 2 at 14:54








        • 1




          $begingroup$
          @G0BLiN even without that, if you go ham on a chest just to break it apart, you might just break the potions or the magic items inside it.
          $endgroup$
          – John Hamilton
          Jan 4 at 8:38








        6




        6




        $begingroup$
        I'd also note that some doors would be much harder or even impossible to break down with simple tools and a lack of magic. This could be steel prison doors or thick 5m high doors outside a palace. The latter would probably be locked with something other than a key, but still...
        $endgroup$
        – Brian R
        Dec 31 '18 at 14:54




        $begingroup$
        I'd also note that some doors would be much harder or even impossible to break down with simple tools and a lack of magic. This could be steel prison doors or thick 5m high doors outside a palace. The latter would probably be locked with something other than a key, but still...
        $endgroup$
        – Brian R
        Dec 31 '18 at 14:54




        11




        11




        $begingroup$
        This is a good answer. It might be worth mentioning that doors and other locked objects can be trapped, and it's possible that breaking into it might set a trap off differently than picking the lock.
        $endgroup$
        – Jack
        Dec 31 '18 at 22:20




        $begingroup$
        This is a good answer. It might be worth mentioning that doors and other locked objects can be trapped, and it's possible that breaking into it might set a trap off differently than picking the lock.
        $endgroup$
        – Jack
        Dec 31 '18 at 22:20




        5




        5




        $begingroup$
        Also, some items can be rigged in a way that breaking them open ruins their contents (think of a metal scroll case with a small chamber of alchemist fire or acid inside it - break it open and the scrolls are destroyed...)
        $endgroup$
        – G0BLiN
        Jan 1 at 17:46




        $begingroup$
        Also, some items can be rigged in a way that breaking them open ruins their contents (think of a metal scroll case with a small chamber of alchemist fire or acid inside it - break it open and the scrolls are destroyed...)
        $endgroup$
        – G0BLiN
        Jan 1 at 17:46




        4




        4




        $begingroup$
        Another factor: Wrecking a door makes a lot of noise, alerting everybody around that something untoward is going down, even if they can't see it.
        $endgroup$
        – T.J.L.
        Jan 2 at 14:54






        $begingroup$
        Another factor: Wrecking a door makes a lot of noise, alerting everybody around that something untoward is going down, even if they can't see it.
        $endgroup$
        – T.J.L.
        Jan 2 at 14:54






        1




        1




        $begingroup$
        @G0BLiN even without that, if you go ham on a chest just to break it apart, you might just break the potions or the magic items inside it.
        $endgroup$
        – John Hamilton
        Jan 4 at 8:38




        $begingroup$
        @G0BLiN even without that, if you go ham on a chest just to break it apart, you might just break the potions or the magic items inside it.
        $endgroup$
        – John Hamilton
        Jan 4 at 8:38













        41












        $begingroup$

        Breaking down doors is loud, doors have uses, and some doors are much harder to break down than others.



        Breaking down doors is loud. Unlike picking a lock, smashing a lock is a loud and attention attracting activity. Monsters can pinpoint your player's location and prepare an ambush, flee with treasure, and generally do a lot of unpleasant things. Enemies can find the broken door and track you down. If there's no monsters close by then, have at it. No consequences, no time pressure, let them succeed.



        Doors have uses. They stop people entering places. If you leave a door intact you can use it to bar enemies, you can use it to lock someone in places, you can use it to be more stealthy. There are often good reasons to leave barriers intact. Picking a lock gives you control over that lock, in that there is still a door to be locked or barred. Likewise, chests have uses, they keep items safe- if you smash them, those items are not gonna be happy.



        Some doors are much harder to break down than others. Some doors have heavy bars on them, or are made of iron or steel or magical materials. Some are giant stone columns that only open if you say friend in elvish. For these doors the lock picking roll might be much lower than the breaking roll, so it will be much faster and actually feasible to pick the lock than smash it.






        share|improve this answer











        $endgroup$









        • 12




          $begingroup$
          I’d object to “Picking a lock gives you control over that lock.” Neither in the rules or in real life does picking a lock give you an easier way to control a lock. To relock it you have to re-pick it, and to unlock it again you have to pick it a third time, etc. You might get some advantage for familiarity (in real life or from a generous DM).
          $endgroup$
          – SevenSidedDie♦
          Dec 31 '18 at 14:08








        • 6




          $begingroup$
          I'd add, breaking down a door leaves evidence behind.
          $endgroup$
          – Dave Costa
          Dec 31 '18 at 14:39






        • 1




          $begingroup$
          And it takes time to deal with the door, possibly leading to wandering monsters happening by,
          $endgroup$
          – LAK
          Dec 31 '18 at 14:47










        • $begingroup$
          I was more saying that you had more control over the lock than if it was kindling than absolute control, but I will clarify. And I'll add the point about evidence being left behind.
          $endgroup$
          – Nepene Nep
          Jan 2 at 0:01






        • 4




          $begingroup$
          @SevenSidedDie Real life has many designs of locks that can be locked without a key, whether simply by closing the door, or rotating a little switch, or pressing a button. And yes, all of these can be done with purely mechanical designs. Some of these can even be unlocked without a key or picking them, if you're on the right side. So while picking a lock might not give you complete control over it, it's not an automatic guarantee that you'll have no control at all.
          $endgroup$
          – 8bittree
          Jan 2 at 18:33
















        41












        $begingroup$

        Breaking down doors is loud, doors have uses, and some doors are much harder to break down than others.



        Breaking down doors is loud. Unlike picking a lock, smashing a lock is a loud and attention attracting activity. Monsters can pinpoint your player's location and prepare an ambush, flee with treasure, and generally do a lot of unpleasant things. Enemies can find the broken door and track you down. If there's no monsters close by then, have at it. No consequences, no time pressure, let them succeed.



        Doors have uses. They stop people entering places. If you leave a door intact you can use it to bar enemies, you can use it to lock someone in places, you can use it to be more stealthy. There are often good reasons to leave barriers intact. Picking a lock gives you control over that lock, in that there is still a door to be locked or barred. Likewise, chests have uses, they keep items safe- if you smash them, those items are not gonna be happy.



        Some doors are much harder to break down than others. Some doors have heavy bars on them, or are made of iron or steel or magical materials. Some are giant stone columns that only open if you say friend in elvish. For these doors the lock picking roll might be much lower than the breaking roll, so it will be much faster and actually feasible to pick the lock than smash it.






        share|improve this answer











        $endgroup$









        • 12




          $begingroup$
          I’d object to “Picking a lock gives you control over that lock.” Neither in the rules or in real life does picking a lock give you an easier way to control a lock. To relock it you have to re-pick it, and to unlock it again you have to pick it a third time, etc. You might get some advantage for familiarity (in real life or from a generous DM).
          $endgroup$
          – SevenSidedDie♦
          Dec 31 '18 at 14:08








        • 6




          $begingroup$
          I'd add, breaking down a door leaves evidence behind.
          $endgroup$
          – Dave Costa
          Dec 31 '18 at 14:39






        • 1




          $begingroup$
          And it takes time to deal with the door, possibly leading to wandering monsters happening by,
          $endgroup$
          – LAK
          Dec 31 '18 at 14:47










        • $begingroup$
          I was more saying that you had more control over the lock than if it was kindling than absolute control, but I will clarify. And I'll add the point about evidence being left behind.
          $endgroup$
          – Nepene Nep
          Jan 2 at 0:01






        • 4




          $begingroup$
          @SevenSidedDie Real life has many designs of locks that can be locked without a key, whether simply by closing the door, or rotating a little switch, or pressing a button. And yes, all of these can be done with purely mechanical designs. Some of these can even be unlocked without a key or picking them, if you're on the right side. So while picking a lock might not give you complete control over it, it's not an automatic guarantee that you'll have no control at all.
          $endgroup$
          – 8bittree
          Jan 2 at 18:33














        41












        41








        41





        $begingroup$

        Breaking down doors is loud, doors have uses, and some doors are much harder to break down than others.



        Breaking down doors is loud. Unlike picking a lock, smashing a lock is a loud and attention attracting activity. Monsters can pinpoint your player's location and prepare an ambush, flee with treasure, and generally do a lot of unpleasant things. Enemies can find the broken door and track you down. If there's no monsters close by then, have at it. No consequences, no time pressure, let them succeed.



        Doors have uses. They stop people entering places. If you leave a door intact you can use it to bar enemies, you can use it to lock someone in places, you can use it to be more stealthy. There are often good reasons to leave barriers intact. Picking a lock gives you control over that lock, in that there is still a door to be locked or barred. Likewise, chests have uses, they keep items safe- if you smash them, those items are not gonna be happy.



        Some doors are much harder to break down than others. Some doors have heavy bars on them, or are made of iron or steel or magical materials. Some are giant stone columns that only open if you say friend in elvish. For these doors the lock picking roll might be much lower than the breaking roll, so it will be much faster and actually feasible to pick the lock than smash it.






        share|improve this answer











        $endgroup$



        Breaking down doors is loud, doors have uses, and some doors are much harder to break down than others.



        Breaking down doors is loud. Unlike picking a lock, smashing a lock is a loud and attention attracting activity. Monsters can pinpoint your player's location and prepare an ambush, flee with treasure, and generally do a lot of unpleasant things. Enemies can find the broken door and track you down. If there's no monsters close by then, have at it. No consequences, no time pressure, let them succeed.



        Doors have uses. They stop people entering places. If you leave a door intact you can use it to bar enemies, you can use it to lock someone in places, you can use it to be more stealthy. There are often good reasons to leave barriers intact. Picking a lock gives you control over that lock, in that there is still a door to be locked or barred. Likewise, chests have uses, they keep items safe- if you smash them, those items are not gonna be happy.



        Some doors are much harder to break down than others. Some doors have heavy bars on them, or are made of iron or steel or magical materials. Some are giant stone columns that only open if you say friend in elvish. For these doors the lock picking roll might be much lower than the breaking roll, so it will be much faster and actually feasible to pick the lock than smash it.







        share|improve this answer














        share|improve this answer



        share|improve this answer








        edited Jan 2 at 0:02

























        answered Dec 31 '18 at 8:31









        Nepene NepNepene Nep

        3,457626




        3,457626








        • 12




          $begingroup$
          I’d object to “Picking a lock gives you control over that lock.” Neither in the rules or in real life does picking a lock give you an easier way to control a lock. To relock it you have to re-pick it, and to unlock it again you have to pick it a third time, etc. You might get some advantage for familiarity (in real life or from a generous DM).
          $endgroup$
          – SevenSidedDie♦
          Dec 31 '18 at 14:08








        • 6




          $begingroup$
          I'd add, breaking down a door leaves evidence behind.
          $endgroup$
          – Dave Costa
          Dec 31 '18 at 14:39






        • 1




          $begingroup$
          And it takes time to deal with the door, possibly leading to wandering monsters happening by,
          $endgroup$
          – LAK
          Dec 31 '18 at 14:47










        • $begingroup$
          I was more saying that you had more control over the lock than if it was kindling than absolute control, but I will clarify. And I'll add the point about evidence being left behind.
          $endgroup$
          – Nepene Nep
          Jan 2 at 0:01






        • 4




          $begingroup$
          @SevenSidedDie Real life has many designs of locks that can be locked without a key, whether simply by closing the door, or rotating a little switch, or pressing a button. And yes, all of these can be done with purely mechanical designs. Some of these can even be unlocked without a key or picking them, if you're on the right side. So while picking a lock might not give you complete control over it, it's not an automatic guarantee that you'll have no control at all.
          $endgroup$
          – 8bittree
          Jan 2 at 18:33














        • 12




          $begingroup$
          I’d object to “Picking a lock gives you control over that lock.” Neither in the rules or in real life does picking a lock give you an easier way to control a lock. To relock it you have to re-pick it, and to unlock it again you have to pick it a third time, etc. You might get some advantage for familiarity (in real life or from a generous DM).
          $endgroup$
          – SevenSidedDie♦
          Dec 31 '18 at 14:08








        • 6




          $begingroup$
          I'd add, breaking down a door leaves evidence behind.
          $endgroup$
          – Dave Costa
          Dec 31 '18 at 14:39






        • 1




          $begingroup$
          And it takes time to deal with the door, possibly leading to wandering monsters happening by,
          $endgroup$
          – LAK
          Dec 31 '18 at 14:47










        • $begingroup$
          I was more saying that you had more control over the lock than if it was kindling than absolute control, but I will clarify. And I'll add the point about evidence being left behind.
          $endgroup$
          – Nepene Nep
          Jan 2 at 0:01






        • 4




          $begingroup$
          @SevenSidedDie Real life has many designs of locks that can be locked without a key, whether simply by closing the door, or rotating a little switch, or pressing a button. And yes, all of these can be done with purely mechanical designs. Some of these can even be unlocked without a key or picking them, if you're on the right side. So while picking a lock might not give you complete control over it, it's not an automatic guarantee that you'll have no control at all.
          $endgroup$
          – 8bittree
          Jan 2 at 18:33








        12




        12




        $begingroup$
        I’d object to “Picking a lock gives you control over that lock.” Neither in the rules or in real life does picking a lock give you an easier way to control a lock. To relock it you have to re-pick it, and to unlock it again you have to pick it a third time, etc. You might get some advantage for familiarity (in real life or from a generous DM).
        $endgroup$
        – SevenSidedDie♦
        Dec 31 '18 at 14:08






        $begingroup$
        I’d object to “Picking a lock gives you control over that lock.” Neither in the rules or in real life does picking a lock give you an easier way to control a lock. To relock it you have to re-pick it, and to unlock it again you have to pick it a third time, etc. You might get some advantage for familiarity (in real life or from a generous DM).
        $endgroup$
        – SevenSidedDie♦
        Dec 31 '18 at 14:08






        6




        6




        $begingroup$
        I'd add, breaking down a door leaves evidence behind.
        $endgroup$
        – Dave Costa
        Dec 31 '18 at 14:39




        $begingroup$
        I'd add, breaking down a door leaves evidence behind.
        $endgroup$
        – Dave Costa
        Dec 31 '18 at 14:39




        1




        1




        $begingroup$
        And it takes time to deal with the door, possibly leading to wandering monsters happening by,
        $endgroup$
        – LAK
        Dec 31 '18 at 14:47




        $begingroup$
        And it takes time to deal with the door, possibly leading to wandering monsters happening by,
        $endgroup$
        – LAK
        Dec 31 '18 at 14:47












        $begingroup$
        I was more saying that you had more control over the lock than if it was kindling than absolute control, but I will clarify. And I'll add the point about evidence being left behind.
        $endgroup$
        – Nepene Nep
        Jan 2 at 0:01




        $begingroup$
        I was more saying that you had more control over the lock than if it was kindling than absolute control, but I will clarify. And I'll add the point about evidence being left behind.
        $endgroup$
        – Nepene Nep
        Jan 2 at 0:01




        4




        4




        $begingroup$
        @SevenSidedDie Real life has many designs of locks that can be locked without a key, whether simply by closing the door, or rotating a little switch, or pressing a button. And yes, all of these can be done with purely mechanical designs. Some of these can even be unlocked without a key or picking them, if you're on the right side. So while picking a lock might not give you complete control over it, it's not an automatic guarantee that you'll have no control at all.
        $endgroup$
        – 8bittree
        Jan 2 at 18:33




        $begingroup$
        @SevenSidedDie Real life has many designs of locks that can be locked without a key, whether simply by closing the door, or rotating a little switch, or pressing a button. And yes, all of these can be done with purely mechanical designs. Some of these can even be unlocked without a key or picking them, if you're on the right side. So while picking a lock might not give you complete control over it, it's not an automatic guarantee that you'll have no control at all.
        $endgroup$
        – 8bittree
        Jan 2 at 18:33











        14












        $begingroup$

        We can look to real life to gain some insight:



        Bank vaults in the US are rated to 4 different possibilities against forced entry:





        • M 15 minutes

        • Class I 30 minutes

        • Class II 60 minutes

        • Class III 120 minutes




        Classified storage of national security secrets also have door certifications, the Class 5 vault doors being:





        • 20 man-hours against surreptitious entry.

        • 30 man-minutes against covert entry.

        • 10 man-minutes against forced entry.




        The door will only slow down a determined attacker, which is why there are also provisions for other required security:





        1. For Top Secret information stored outside the United States, one or more of the following supplemental security controls is
          required:

          (a) The area that houses the security container or vault
          will be subject to the continuous protection of guard or duty
          personnel;

          (b) Guard or duty personnel will inspect the security
          container or vault at least once every 2 hours; or

          (c) The security
          container or vault will be controlled by an alarm system to which a
          force will respond in person within 15 minutes.




        Bottom line: if modern national security vaults and banks can be breached in a matter of minutes via force, it's pretty likely dungeon doors and chests can as well. Add other security features if you want to truly secure something... and if they've killed all the guards, it's pretty reasonable to assume they can bang their way into almost anything if they want to take the time to do it.



        The way our DM has protected chests in the past is having a manufacturer's notice in common that reads:




        WARNING: Thank you for buying Thurlin's Secure Storage: this chest contains an anti-tamper acid ampule. Excessive movement or lifting of the lid without disengaging the lock will damage or destroy the contents of the chest.




        and when we got used to breaking into those we ran into a:




        WARNING: this chest contains explosive run... - boom







        share|improve this answer









        $endgroup$









        • 1




          $begingroup$
          I am reminded of the original Castle Wolfenstein game for Apple ][ where you could shoot chests to open them more quickly, unless they contained explosives....
          $endgroup$
          – Robert Columbia
          Jan 1 at 0:34










        • $begingroup$
          Hey, these are really good suggestions. Thank you.
          $endgroup$
          – Alex Parvan
          Jan 3 at 9:01






        • 2




          $begingroup$
          "I prepared Explosive Runes this morning"
          $endgroup$
          – Alastair Campbell
          Jan 3 at 12:47










        • $begingroup$
          +1 for pointing out that the answer in real life is the same as in game. It's not about stopping people, it's about making it obvious when someone shouldn't be there / buying time.
          $endgroup$
          – UKMonkey
          Jan 4 at 10:26










        • $begingroup$
          @UKMonkey Another bit for real-life (which is less applicable to games) is being able to tell someone tampered with/got into your stuff. The rating on "surreptitious entry," which is defined as sneaking in where even a trained expert can't tell it was breached, is a good example. They require it to take 120 times longer to get into the vault where no one could tell they had gotten in compared to a forced entry.
          $endgroup$
          – TemporalWolf
          Jan 4 at 19:02
















        14












        $begingroup$

        We can look to real life to gain some insight:



        Bank vaults in the US are rated to 4 different possibilities against forced entry:





        • M 15 minutes

        • Class I 30 minutes

        • Class II 60 minutes

        • Class III 120 minutes




        Classified storage of national security secrets also have door certifications, the Class 5 vault doors being:





        • 20 man-hours against surreptitious entry.

        • 30 man-minutes against covert entry.

        • 10 man-minutes against forced entry.




        The door will only slow down a determined attacker, which is why there are also provisions for other required security:





        1. For Top Secret information stored outside the United States, one or more of the following supplemental security controls is
          required:

          (a) The area that houses the security container or vault
          will be subject to the continuous protection of guard or duty
          personnel;

          (b) Guard or duty personnel will inspect the security
          container or vault at least once every 2 hours; or

          (c) The security
          container or vault will be controlled by an alarm system to which a
          force will respond in person within 15 minutes.




        Bottom line: if modern national security vaults and banks can be breached in a matter of minutes via force, it's pretty likely dungeon doors and chests can as well. Add other security features if you want to truly secure something... and if they've killed all the guards, it's pretty reasonable to assume they can bang their way into almost anything if they want to take the time to do it.



        The way our DM has protected chests in the past is having a manufacturer's notice in common that reads:




        WARNING: Thank you for buying Thurlin's Secure Storage: this chest contains an anti-tamper acid ampule. Excessive movement or lifting of the lid without disengaging the lock will damage or destroy the contents of the chest.




        and when we got used to breaking into those we ran into a:




        WARNING: this chest contains explosive run... - boom







        share|improve this answer









        $endgroup$









        • 1




          $begingroup$
          I am reminded of the original Castle Wolfenstein game for Apple ][ where you could shoot chests to open them more quickly, unless they contained explosives....
          $endgroup$
          – Robert Columbia
          Jan 1 at 0:34










        • $begingroup$
          Hey, these are really good suggestions. Thank you.
          $endgroup$
          – Alex Parvan
          Jan 3 at 9:01






        • 2




          $begingroup$
          "I prepared Explosive Runes this morning"
          $endgroup$
          – Alastair Campbell
          Jan 3 at 12:47










        • $begingroup$
          +1 for pointing out that the answer in real life is the same as in game. It's not about stopping people, it's about making it obvious when someone shouldn't be there / buying time.
          $endgroup$
          – UKMonkey
          Jan 4 at 10:26










        • $begingroup$
          @UKMonkey Another bit for real-life (which is less applicable to games) is being able to tell someone tampered with/got into your stuff. The rating on "surreptitious entry," which is defined as sneaking in where even a trained expert can't tell it was breached, is a good example. They require it to take 120 times longer to get into the vault where no one could tell they had gotten in compared to a forced entry.
          $endgroup$
          – TemporalWolf
          Jan 4 at 19:02














        14












        14








        14





        $begingroup$

        We can look to real life to gain some insight:



        Bank vaults in the US are rated to 4 different possibilities against forced entry:





        • M 15 minutes

        • Class I 30 minutes

        • Class II 60 minutes

        • Class III 120 minutes




        Classified storage of national security secrets also have door certifications, the Class 5 vault doors being:





        • 20 man-hours against surreptitious entry.

        • 30 man-minutes against covert entry.

        • 10 man-minutes against forced entry.




        The door will only slow down a determined attacker, which is why there are also provisions for other required security:





        1. For Top Secret information stored outside the United States, one or more of the following supplemental security controls is
          required:

          (a) The area that houses the security container or vault
          will be subject to the continuous protection of guard or duty
          personnel;

          (b) Guard or duty personnel will inspect the security
          container or vault at least once every 2 hours; or

          (c) The security
          container or vault will be controlled by an alarm system to which a
          force will respond in person within 15 minutes.




        Bottom line: if modern national security vaults and banks can be breached in a matter of minutes via force, it's pretty likely dungeon doors and chests can as well. Add other security features if you want to truly secure something... and if they've killed all the guards, it's pretty reasonable to assume they can bang their way into almost anything if they want to take the time to do it.



        The way our DM has protected chests in the past is having a manufacturer's notice in common that reads:




        WARNING: Thank you for buying Thurlin's Secure Storage: this chest contains an anti-tamper acid ampule. Excessive movement or lifting of the lid without disengaging the lock will damage or destroy the contents of the chest.




        and when we got used to breaking into those we ran into a:




        WARNING: this chest contains explosive run... - boom







        share|improve this answer









        $endgroup$



        We can look to real life to gain some insight:



        Bank vaults in the US are rated to 4 different possibilities against forced entry:





        • M 15 minutes

        • Class I 30 minutes

        • Class II 60 minutes

        • Class III 120 minutes




        Classified storage of national security secrets also have door certifications, the Class 5 vault doors being:





        • 20 man-hours against surreptitious entry.

        • 30 man-minutes against covert entry.

        • 10 man-minutes against forced entry.




        The door will only slow down a determined attacker, which is why there are also provisions for other required security:





        1. For Top Secret information stored outside the United States, one or more of the following supplemental security controls is
          required:

          (a) The area that houses the security container or vault
          will be subject to the continuous protection of guard or duty
          personnel;

          (b) Guard or duty personnel will inspect the security
          container or vault at least once every 2 hours; or

          (c) The security
          container or vault will be controlled by an alarm system to which a
          force will respond in person within 15 minutes.




        Bottom line: if modern national security vaults and banks can be breached in a matter of minutes via force, it's pretty likely dungeon doors and chests can as well. Add other security features if you want to truly secure something... and if they've killed all the guards, it's pretty reasonable to assume they can bang their way into almost anything if they want to take the time to do it.



        The way our DM has protected chests in the past is having a manufacturer's notice in common that reads:




        WARNING: Thank you for buying Thurlin's Secure Storage: this chest contains an anti-tamper acid ampule. Excessive movement or lifting of the lid without disengaging the lock will damage or destroy the contents of the chest.




        and when we got used to breaking into those we ran into a:




        WARNING: this chest contains explosive run... - boom








        share|improve this answer












        share|improve this answer



        share|improve this answer










        answered Dec 31 '18 at 21:35









        TemporalWolfTemporalWolf

        66728




        66728








        • 1




          $begingroup$
          I am reminded of the original Castle Wolfenstein game for Apple ][ where you could shoot chests to open them more quickly, unless they contained explosives....
          $endgroup$
          – Robert Columbia
          Jan 1 at 0:34










        • $begingroup$
          Hey, these are really good suggestions. Thank you.
          $endgroup$
          – Alex Parvan
          Jan 3 at 9:01






        • 2




          $begingroup$
          "I prepared Explosive Runes this morning"
          $endgroup$
          – Alastair Campbell
          Jan 3 at 12:47










        • $begingroup$
          +1 for pointing out that the answer in real life is the same as in game. It's not about stopping people, it's about making it obvious when someone shouldn't be there / buying time.
          $endgroup$
          – UKMonkey
          Jan 4 at 10:26










        • $begingroup$
          @UKMonkey Another bit for real-life (which is less applicable to games) is being able to tell someone tampered with/got into your stuff. The rating on "surreptitious entry," which is defined as sneaking in where even a trained expert can't tell it was breached, is a good example. They require it to take 120 times longer to get into the vault where no one could tell they had gotten in compared to a forced entry.
          $endgroup$
          – TemporalWolf
          Jan 4 at 19:02














        • 1




          $begingroup$
          I am reminded of the original Castle Wolfenstein game for Apple ][ where you could shoot chests to open them more quickly, unless they contained explosives....
          $endgroup$
          – Robert Columbia
          Jan 1 at 0:34










        • $begingroup$
          Hey, these are really good suggestions. Thank you.
          $endgroup$
          – Alex Parvan
          Jan 3 at 9:01






        • 2




          $begingroup$
          "I prepared Explosive Runes this morning"
          $endgroup$
          – Alastair Campbell
          Jan 3 at 12:47










        • $begingroup$
          +1 for pointing out that the answer in real life is the same as in game. It's not about stopping people, it's about making it obvious when someone shouldn't be there / buying time.
          $endgroup$
          – UKMonkey
          Jan 4 at 10:26










        • $begingroup$
          @UKMonkey Another bit for real-life (which is less applicable to games) is being able to tell someone tampered with/got into your stuff. The rating on "surreptitious entry," which is defined as sneaking in where even a trained expert can't tell it was breached, is a good example. They require it to take 120 times longer to get into the vault where no one could tell they had gotten in compared to a forced entry.
          $endgroup$
          – TemporalWolf
          Jan 4 at 19:02








        1




        1




        $begingroup$
        I am reminded of the original Castle Wolfenstein game for Apple ][ where you could shoot chests to open them more quickly, unless they contained explosives....
        $endgroup$
        – Robert Columbia
        Jan 1 at 0:34




        $begingroup$
        I am reminded of the original Castle Wolfenstein game for Apple ][ where you could shoot chests to open them more quickly, unless they contained explosives....
        $endgroup$
        – Robert Columbia
        Jan 1 at 0:34












        $begingroup$
        Hey, these are really good suggestions. Thank you.
        $endgroup$
        – Alex Parvan
        Jan 3 at 9:01




        $begingroup$
        Hey, these are really good suggestions. Thank you.
        $endgroup$
        – Alex Parvan
        Jan 3 at 9:01




        2




        2




        $begingroup$
        "I prepared Explosive Runes this morning"
        $endgroup$
        – Alastair Campbell
        Jan 3 at 12:47




        $begingroup$
        "I prepared Explosive Runes this morning"
        $endgroup$
        – Alastair Campbell
        Jan 3 at 12:47












        $begingroup$
        +1 for pointing out that the answer in real life is the same as in game. It's not about stopping people, it's about making it obvious when someone shouldn't be there / buying time.
        $endgroup$
        – UKMonkey
        Jan 4 at 10:26




        $begingroup$
        +1 for pointing out that the answer in real life is the same as in game. It's not about stopping people, it's about making it obvious when someone shouldn't be there / buying time.
        $endgroup$
        – UKMonkey
        Jan 4 at 10:26












        $begingroup$
        @UKMonkey Another bit for real-life (which is less applicable to games) is being able to tell someone tampered with/got into your stuff. The rating on "surreptitious entry," which is defined as sneaking in where even a trained expert can't tell it was breached, is a good example. They require it to take 120 times longer to get into the vault where no one could tell they had gotten in compared to a forced entry.
        $endgroup$
        – TemporalWolf
        Jan 4 at 19:02




        $begingroup$
        @UKMonkey Another bit for real-life (which is less applicable to games) is being able to tell someone tampered with/got into your stuff. The rating on "surreptitious entry," which is defined as sneaking in where even a trained expert can't tell it was breached, is a good example. They require it to take 120 times longer to get into the vault where no one could tell they had gotten in compared to a forced entry.
        $endgroup$
        – TemporalWolf
        Jan 4 at 19:02











        13












        $begingroup$

        If there is no downside to breaking down a door compared to unlocking it, there is no point in choosing one over the other (except for ability to do either)



        Unlocking a door is quiet, and does not necessarily alert the next room of monsters that the players have arrived. Breaking down a door is a messy and loud affair. If any subterfuge is needed for players (be it in a noble's house or a dungeon) then breaking down the door is obviously not the best idea.



        If there are no consequences for actions the players take, then they can do whatever they want with no fear of reprisal.



        A possible solution to players breaking down doors willy-nilly is by making such objects have a damage threshold that means below the damage value the door cannot be hurt at all. This is a possibly confusing mechanic to spring on your players, so mentioning it beforehand would likely be a good idea.






        share|improve this answer











        $endgroup$


















          13












          $begingroup$

          If there is no downside to breaking down a door compared to unlocking it, there is no point in choosing one over the other (except for ability to do either)



          Unlocking a door is quiet, and does not necessarily alert the next room of monsters that the players have arrived. Breaking down a door is a messy and loud affair. If any subterfuge is needed for players (be it in a noble's house or a dungeon) then breaking down the door is obviously not the best idea.



          If there are no consequences for actions the players take, then they can do whatever they want with no fear of reprisal.



          A possible solution to players breaking down doors willy-nilly is by making such objects have a damage threshold that means below the damage value the door cannot be hurt at all. This is a possibly confusing mechanic to spring on your players, so mentioning it beforehand would likely be a good idea.






          share|improve this answer











          $endgroup$
















            13












            13








            13





            $begingroup$

            If there is no downside to breaking down a door compared to unlocking it, there is no point in choosing one over the other (except for ability to do either)



            Unlocking a door is quiet, and does not necessarily alert the next room of monsters that the players have arrived. Breaking down a door is a messy and loud affair. If any subterfuge is needed for players (be it in a noble's house or a dungeon) then breaking down the door is obviously not the best idea.



            If there are no consequences for actions the players take, then they can do whatever they want with no fear of reprisal.



            A possible solution to players breaking down doors willy-nilly is by making such objects have a damage threshold that means below the damage value the door cannot be hurt at all. This is a possibly confusing mechanic to spring on your players, so mentioning it beforehand would likely be a good idea.






            share|improve this answer











            $endgroup$



            If there is no downside to breaking down a door compared to unlocking it, there is no point in choosing one over the other (except for ability to do either)



            Unlocking a door is quiet, and does not necessarily alert the next room of monsters that the players have arrived. Breaking down a door is a messy and loud affair. If any subterfuge is needed for players (be it in a noble's house or a dungeon) then breaking down the door is obviously not the best idea.



            If there are no consequences for actions the players take, then they can do whatever they want with no fear of reprisal.



            A possible solution to players breaking down doors willy-nilly is by making such objects have a damage threshold that means below the damage value the door cannot be hurt at all. This is a possibly confusing mechanic to spring on your players, so mentioning it beforehand would likely be a good idea.







            share|improve this answer














            share|improve this answer



            share|improve this answer








            edited Dec 31 '18 at 8:27

























            answered Dec 31 '18 at 8:08









            L0neGamerL0neGamer

            1,278317




            1,278317























                12












                $begingroup$

                Everyone is talking about doors, but you also ask about chests. If you break open a chest, in Real Life, there's a fair chance that whatever's inside will get damaged, right? If there's something fragile inside, it might get smashed. If there's liquid inside, (inside a fragile bottle, for instance,) it might stain other items in the chest, for example making a precious scroll unreadable. You could introduce consequences to breaking the chest open instead of unlocking it.






                share|improve this answer









                $endgroup$













                • $begingroup$
                  Netback does this well. Kick a door and you attract monsters with noise. Kick a chest to force the lock and there is a good chance of destroying any potion or other fragile item inside. Kick a shopkeeper's door and if you're lucky he will demand you pay for it, or else will just attack.
                  $endgroup$
                  – Adam Eberbach
                  Jan 1 at 22:25










                • $begingroup$
                  This is the exact example I would give: collateral damage. As for instance in an early Glass Cannon Podcast episode where the group comes across a locked chest: As it turns out, attempting to break the lock would result in a 75% risk of breaking each item within.
                  $endgroup$
                  – KlaymenDK
                  Jan 2 at 15:00






                • 1




                  $begingroup$
                  Sounds like a good place to keep a fragile bottle of Greek fire.
                  $endgroup$
                  – GrandmasterB
                  Jan 2 at 21:48
















                12












                $begingroup$

                Everyone is talking about doors, but you also ask about chests. If you break open a chest, in Real Life, there's a fair chance that whatever's inside will get damaged, right? If there's something fragile inside, it might get smashed. If there's liquid inside, (inside a fragile bottle, for instance,) it might stain other items in the chest, for example making a precious scroll unreadable. You could introduce consequences to breaking the chest open instead of unlocking it.






                share|improve this answer









                $endgroup$













                • $begingroup$
                  Netback does this well. Kick a door and you attract monsters with noise. Kick a chest to force the lock and there is a good chance of destroying any potion or other fragile item inside. Kick a shopkeeper's door and if you're lucky he will demand you pay for it, or else will just attack.
                  $endgroup$
                  – Adam Eberbach
                  Jan 1 at 22:25










                • $begingroup$
                  This is the exact example I would give: collateral damage. As for instance in an early Glass Cannon Podcast episode where the group comes across a locked chest: As it turns out, attempting to break the lock would result in a 75% risk of breaking each item within.
                  $endgroup$
                  – KlaymenDK
                  Jan 2 at 15:00






                • 1




                  $begingroup$
                  Sounds like a good place to keep a fragile bottle of Greek fire.
                  $endgroup$
                  – GrandmasterB
                  Jan 2 at 21:48














                12












                12








                12





                $begingroup$

                Everyone is talking about doors, but you also ask about chests. If you break open a chest, in Real Life, there's a fair chance that whatever's inside will get damaged, right? If there's something fragile inside, it might get smashed. If there's liquid inside, (inside a fragile bottle, for instance,) it might stain other items in the chest, for example making a precious scroll unreadable. You could introduce consequences to breaking the chest open instead of unlocking it.






                share|improve this answer









                $endgroup$



                Everyone is talking about doors, but you also ask about chests. If you break open a chest, in Real Life, there's a fair chance that whatever's inside will get damaged, right? If there's something fragile inside, it might get smashed. If there's liquid inside, (inside a fragile bottle, for instance,) it might stain other items in the chest, for example making a precious scroll unreadable. You could introduce consequences to breaking the chest open instead of unlocking it.







                share|improve this answer












                share|improve this answer



                share|improve this answer










                answered Dec 31 '18 at 17:38









                GalastelGalastel

                3488




                3488












                • $begingroup$
                  Netback does this well. Kick a door and you attract monsters with noise. Kick a chest to force the lock and there is a good chance of destroying any potion or other fragile item inside. Kick a shopkeeper's door and if you're lucky he will demand you pay for it, or else will just attack.
                  $endgroup$
                  – Adam Eberbach
                  Jan 1 at 22:25










                • $begingroup$
                  This is the exact example I would give: collateral damage. As for instance in an early Glass Cannon Podcast episode where the group comes across a locked chest: As it turns out, attempting to break the lock would result in a 75% risk of breaking each item within.
                  $endgroup$
                  – KlaymenDK
                  Jan 2 at 15:00






                • 1




                  $begingroup$
                  Sounds like a good place to keep a fragile bottle of Greek fire.
                  $endgroup$
                  – GrandmasterB
                  Jan 2 at 21:48


















                • $begingroup$
                  Netback does this well. Kick a door and you attract monsters with noise. Kick a chest to force the lock and there is a good chance of destroying any potion or other fragile item inside. Kick a shopkeeper's door and if you're lucky he will demand you pay for it, or else will just attack.
                  $endgroup$
                  – Adam Eberbach
                  Jan 1 at 22:25










                • $begingroup$
                  This is the exact example I would give: collateral damage. As for instance in an early Glass Cannon Podcast episode where the group comes across a locked chest: As it turns out, attempting to break the lock would result in a 75% risk of breaking each item within.
                  $endgroup$
                  – KlaymenDK
                  Jan 2 at 15:00






                • 1




                  $begingroup$
                  Sounds like a good place to keep a fragile bottle of Greek fire.
                  $endgroup$
                  – GrandmasterB
                  Jan 2 at 21:48
















                $begingroup$
                Netback does this well. Kick a door and you attract monsters with noise. Kick a chest to force the lock and there is a good chance of destroying any potion or other fragile item inside. Kick a shopkeeper's door and if you're lucky he will demand you pay for it, or else will just attack.
                $endgroup$
                – Adam Eberbach
                Jan 1 at 22:25




                $begingroup$
                Netback does this well. Kick a door and you attract monsters with noise. Kick a chest to force the lock and there is a good chance of destroying any potion or other fragile item inside. Kick a shopkeeper's door and if you're lucky he will demand you pay for it, or else will just attack.
                $endgroup$
                – Adam Eberbach
                Jan 1 at 22:25












                $begingroup$
                This is the exact example I would give: collateral damage. As for instance in an early Glass Cannon Podcast episode where the group comes across a locked chest: As it turns out, attempting to break the lock would result in a 75% risk of breaking each item within.
                $endgroup$
                – KlaymenDK
                Jan 2 at 15:00




                $begingroup$
                This is the exact example I would give: collateral damage. As for instance in an early Glass Cannon Podcast episode where the group comes across a locked chest: As it turns out, attempting to break the lock would result in a 75% risk of breaking each item within.
                $endgroup$
                – KlaymenDK
                Jan 2 at 15:00




                1




                1




                $begingroup$
                Sounds like a good place to keep a fragile bottle of Greek fire.
                $endgroup$
                – GrandmasterB
                Jan 2 at 21:48




                $begingroup$
                Sounds like a good place to keep a fragile bottle of Greek fire.
                $endgroup$
                – GrandmasterB
                Jan 2 at 21:48











                8












                $begingroup$

                Oops, I broke my axe



                Weapons used to destroy a door or chest could be damaged in the process...



                I don't think there's any rules about weapons taking damage normally (except some monsters causing corrosion), but it's reasonable that a nice sharp axe or sword could be damaged smashing up stuff made of wood & metal.



                A "smashing" weapon like a hammer, or a crowbar specifically might have no problems, but anything else could be fair game.






                share|improve this answer









                $endgroup$









                • 1




                  $begingroup$
                  This is a very good point. If you are 8 levels down in a dungeon, is it really wise to be bashing things open with the sword you rely on for protection?
                  $endgroup$
                  – GrandmasterB
                  Jan 2 at 21:50
















                8












                $begingroup$

                Oops, I broke my axe



                Weapons used to destroy a door or chest could be damaged in the process...



                I don't think there's any rules about weapons taking damage normally (except some monsters causing corrosion), but it's reasonable that a nice sharp axe or sword could be damaged smashing up stuff made of wood & metal.



                A "smashing" weapon like a hammer, or a crowbar specifically might have no problems, but anything else could be fair game.






                share|improve this answer









                $endgroup$









                • 1




                  $begingroup$
                  This is a very good point. If you are 8 levels down in a dungeon, is it really wise to be bashing things open with the sword you rely on for protection?
                  $endgroup$
                  – GrandmasterB
                  Jan 2 at 21:50














                8












                8








                8





                $begingroup$

                Oops, I broke my axe



                Weapons used to destroy a door or chest could be damaged in the process...



                I don't think there's any rules about weapons taking damage normally (except some monsters causing corrosion), but it's reasonable that a nice sharp axe or sword could be damaged smashing up stuff made of wood & metal.



                A "smashing" weapon like a hammer, or a crowbar specifically might have no problems, but anything else could be fair game.






                share|improve this answer









                $endgroup$



                Oops, I broke my axe



                Weapons used to destroy a door or chest could be damaged in the process...



                I don't think there's any rules about weapons taking damage normally (except some monsters causing corrosion), but it's reasonable that a nice sharp axe or sword could be damaged smashing up stuff made of wood & metal.



                A "smashing" weapon like a hammer, or a crowbar specifically might have no problems, but anything else could be fair game.







                share|improve this answer












                share|improve this answer



                share|improve this answer










                answered Jan 1 at 2:41









                Xen2050Xen2050

                1814




                1814








                • 1




                  $begingroup$
                  This is a very good point. If you are 8 levels down in a dungeon, is it really wise to be bashing things open with the sword you rely on for protection?
                  $endgroup$
                  – GrandmasterB
                  Jan 2 at 21:50














                • 1




                  $begingroup$
                  This is a very good point. If you are 8 levels down in a dungeon, is it really wise to be bashing things open with the sword you rely on for protection?
                  $endgroup$
                  – GrandmasterB
                  Jan 2 at 21:50








                1




                1




                $begingroup$
                This is a very good point. If you are 8 levels down in a dungeon, is it really wise to be bashing things open with the sword you rely on for protection?
                $endgroup$
                – GrandmasterB
                Jan 2 at 21:50




                $begingroup$
                This is a very good point. If you are 8 levels down in a dungeon, is it really wise to be bashing things open with the sword you rely on for protection?
                $endgroup$
                – GrandmasterB
                Jan 2 at 21:50











                4












                $begingroup$

                Summary: A door is a tactical (sometimes, strategic) element with plenty of uses and a cost to manipulating it. Break it if you are in a hurry and enemies know of you, or if there are no enemies, while leave it functional if there is a chance of using it against your enemies.



                Chests are similar but less complicated.



                Breaking doors makes noise



                Noise alerts creatures. The usual rate of wandering monster checks in large dungeons with mobile inhabitants is, for me, once every ten minutes, with 1/6 chance of encounter. I also roll after noise occurances, such as combat or breaking down doors. And, of course, any nearby creatures will often hear the noise automatically or with good chance. If breaking in takes significant time, that also triggers a wandering monster roll or moves the next one closer.



                This is not an issue in places without wandering inhabitants, such as very small dungeons or ancient sealed tombs.



                A broken door is a sign of forced entry



                This is an issue in civilized or organized dungeons, such as cities and fortresses, or when trying to rob the ancient mage's tower without the ancient mage figuring it out.



                Dead enemies everywhere is also a sign of forced entry, so this might not matter too much in many situations.



                Doors control the movement of others, too



                Wolves and unarmed zombies will have very hard time getting through sturdy wooden doors, even given time. Many enemies will spend at least a moment to penetrate a door, and might not be clever enough to open one. Doors can be barred for further security. In a typical dungeon environment with some animals or weaker creatures, doors can be used for good benefit.



                Also, if one wants to rest within a dungeon, closing and barring a door creates a nice alarm system and might prevent some wandering monsters from reaching you at all.



                Doors control vision (and sound a bit)



                Controlling vision allows hiding and resting and makes ranged attacks a lot harder. Hiding behind a door to run away or surprise someone is a classic maneuver.



                Not everything breaks doors



                A rondel or a sword is not the proper tool for breaking a door - you would get a dull edge or a small hole, which is often not very useful. It would be a waste of a battle axe, too - use a woodcutter's axe or something similar. The rules of D&D 5 leave simulating such concerns on the dungeon master, whose duty it is to keep the game world credible. (We prefer to share this duty among the entire gaming group.)



                The matter of chests



                Chests protect things. Breaking a chest might break those things, or you might want to have a nice chest for other purposes, if it can be carried. The concerns of noise are there, as are leaving tracks.






                share|improve this answer









                $endgroup$


















                  4












                  $begingroup$

                  Summary: A door is a tactical (sometimes, strategic) element with plenty of uses and a cost to manipulating it. Break it if you are in a hurry and enemies know of you, or if there are no enemies, while leave it functional if there is a chance of using it against your enemies.



                  Chests are similar but less complicated.



                  Breaking doors makes noise



                  Noise alerts creatures. The usual rate of wandering monster checks in large dungeons with mobile inhabitants is, for me, once every ten minutes, with 1/6 chance of encounter. I also roll after noise occurances, such as combat or breaking down doors. And, of course, any nearby creatures will often hear the noise automatically or with good chance. If breaking in takes significant time, that also triggers a wandering monster roll or moves the next one closer.



                  This is not an issue in places without wandering inhabitants, such as very small dungeons or ancient sealed tombs.



                  A broken door is a sign of forced entry



                  This is an issue in civilized or organized dungeons, such as cities and fortresses, or when trying to rob the ancient mage's tower without the ancient mage figuring it out.



                  Dead enemies everywhere is also a sign of forced entry, so this might not matter too much in many situations.



                  Doors control the movement of others, too



                  Wolves and unarmed zombies will have very hard time getting through sturdy wooden doors, even given time. Many enemies will spend at least a moment to penetrate a door, and might not be clever enough to open one. Doors can be barred for further security. In a typical dungeon environment with some animals or weaker creatures, doors can be used for good benefit.



                  Also, if one wants to rest within a dungeon, closing and barring a door creates a nice alarm system and might prevent some wandering monsters from reaching you at all.



                  Doors control vision (and sound a bit)



                  Controlling vision allows hiding and resting and makes ranged attacks a lot harder. Hiding behind a door to run away or surprise someone is a classic maneuver.



                  Not everything breaks doors



                  A rondel or a sword is not the proper tool for breaking a door - you would get a dull edge or a small hole, which is often not very useful. It would be a waste of a battle axe, too - use a woodcutter's axe or something similar. The rules of D&D 5 leave simulating such concerns on the dungeon master, whose duty it is to keep the game world credible. (We prefer to share this duty among the entire gaming group.)



                  The matter of chests



                  Chests protect things. Breaking a chest might break those things, or you might want to have a nice chest for other purposes, if it can be carried. The concerns of noise are there, as are leaving tracks.






                  share|improve this answer









                  $endgroup$
















                    4












                    4








                    4





                    $begingroup$

                    Summary: A door is a tactical (sometimes, strategic) element with plenty of uses and a cost to manipulating it. Break it if you are in a hurry and enemies know of you, or if there are no enemies, while leave it functional if there is a chance of using it against your enemies.



                    Chests are similar but less complicated.



                    Breaking doors makes noise



                    Noise alerts creatures. The usual rate of wandering monster checks in large dungeons with mobile inhabitants is, for me, once every ten minutes, with 1/6 chance of encounter. I also roll after noise occurances, such as combat or breaking down doors. And, of course, any nearby creatures will often hear the noise automatically or with good chance. If breaking in takes significant time, that also triggers a wandering monster roll or moves the next one closer.



                    This is not an issue in places without wandering inhabitants, such as very small dungeons or ancient sealed tombs.



                    A broken door is a sign of forced entry



                    This is an issue in civilized or organized dungeons, such as cities and fortresses, or when trying to rob the ancient mage's tower without the ancient mage figuring it out.



                    Dead enemies everywhere is also a sign of forced entry, so this might not matter too much in many situations.



                    Doors control the movement of others, too



                    Wolves and unarmed zombies will have very hard time getting through sturdy wooden doors, even given time. Many enemies will spend at least a moment to penetrate a door, and might not be clever enough to open one. Doors can be barred for further security. In a typical dungeon environment with some animals or weaker creatures, doors can be used for good benefit.



                    Also, if one wants to rest within a dungeon, closing and barring a door creates a nice alarm system and might prevent some wandering monsters from reaching you at all.



                    Doors control vision (and sound a bit)



                    Controlling vision allows hiding and resting and makes ranged attacks a lot harder. Hiding behind a door to run away or surprise someone is a classic maneuver.



                    Not everything breaks doors



                    A rondel or a sword is not the proper tool for breaking a door - you would get a dull edge or a small hole, which is often not very useful. It would be a waste of a battle axe, too - use a woodcutter's axe or something similar. The rules of D&D 5 leave simulating such concerns on the dungeon master, whose duty it is to keep the game world credible. (We prefer to share this duty among the entire gaming group.)



                    The matter of chests



                    Chests protect things. Breaking a chest might break those things, or you might want to have a nice chest for other purposes, if it can be carried. The concerns of noise are there, as are leaving tracks.






                    share|improve this answer









                    $endgroup$



                    Summary: A door is a tactical (sometimes, strategic) element with plenty of uses and a cost to manipulating it. Break it if you are in a hurry and enemies know of you, or if there are no enemies, while leave it functional if there is a chance of using it against your enemies.



                    Chests are similar but less complicated.



                    Breaking doors makes noise



                    Noise alerts creatures. The usual rate of wandering monster checks in large dungeons with mobile inhabitants is, for me, once every ten minutes, with 1/6 chance of encounter. I also roll after noise occurances, such as combat or breaking down doors. And, of course, any nearby creatures will often hear the noise automatically or with good chance. If breaking in takes significant time, that also triggers a wandering monster roll or moves the next one closer.



                    This is not an issue in places without wandering inhabitants, such as very small dungeons or ancient sealed tombs.



                    A broken door is a sign of forced entry



                    This is an issue in civilized or organized dungeons, such as cities and fortresses, or when trying to rob the ancient mage's tower without the ancient mage figuring it out.



                    Dead enemies everywhere is also a sign of forced entry, so this might not matter too much in many situations.



                    Doors control the movement of others, too



                    Wolves and unarmed zombies will have very hard time getting through sturdy wooden doors, even given time. Many enemies will spend at least a moment to penetrate a door, and might not be clever enough to open one. Doors can be barred for further security. In a typical dungeon environment with some animals or weaker creatures, doors can be used for good benefit.



                    Also, if one wants to rest within a dungeon, closing and barring a door creates a nice alarm system and might prevent some wandering monsters from reaching you at all.



                    Doors control vision (and sound a bit)



                    Controlling vision allows hiding and resting and makes ranged attacks a lot harder. Hiding behind a door to run away or surprise someone is a classic maneuver.



                    Not everything breaks doors



                    A rondel or a sword is not the proper tool for breaking a door - you would get a dull edge or a small hole, which is often not very useful. It would be a waste of a battle axe, too - use a woodcutter's axe or something similar. The rules of D&D 5 leave simulating such concerns on the dungeon master, whose duty it is to keep the game world credible. (We prefer to share this duty among the entire gaming group.)



                    The matter of chests



                    Chests protect things. Breaking a chest might break those things, or you might want to have a nice chest for other purposes, if it can be carried. The concerns of noise are there, as are leaving tracks.







                    share|improve this answer












                    share|improve this answer



                    share|improve this answer










                    answered Jan 1 at 8:10









                    ThanuirThanuir

                    4,81932357




                    4,81932357























                        3












                        $begingroup$

                        The lock may actually defeat them




                        4-5 guys with a crowbar will eventually open any door/chest that's not magically locked.




                        Maybe.



                        I no longer have a reference to the article, but a few years ago there were a couple of thieves that figured out they could steal a freestanding ATM by tying a heavy chain around it and dragging it down the road behind their truck.

                        After a certain distance most of the pieces came off, however the steel reinforced part that contained the money was intact. At that point they lifted the remaining piece into the truck and drove off.

                        (The extra pieces and the scrape marks gouged in the road were easy to follow to that point.)



                        At some point after that, they gave up and tossed it into a creek where it was found by the authorities.

                        It was bent out of shape, but it still had all of the money inside it.



                        Maybe they were too dumb to steal a blowtorch, or maybe they were smart enough to realize that the blowtorch would burn the paper money inside... I don't know which.






                        share|improve this answer











                        $endgroup$


















                          3












                          $begingroup$

                          The lock may actually defeat them




                          4-5 guys with a crowbar will eventually open any door/chest that's not magically locked.




                          Maybe.



                          I no longer have a reference to the article, but a few years ago there were a couple of thieves that figured out they could steal a freestanding ATM by tying a heavy chain around it and dragging it down the road behind their truck.

                          After a certain distance most of the pieces came off, however the steel reinforced part that contained the money was intact. At that point they lifted the remaining piece into the truck and drove off.

                          (The extra pieces and the scrape marks gouged in the road were easy to follow to that point.)



                          At some point after that, they gave up and tossed it into a creek where it was found by the authorities.

                          It was bent out of shape, but it still had all of the money inside it.



                          Maybe they were too dumb to steal a blowtorch, or maybe they were smart enough to realize that the blowtorch would burn the paper money inside... I don't know which.






                          share|improve this answer











                          $endgroup$
















                            3












                            3








                            3





                            $begingroup$

                            The lock may actually defeat them




                            4-5 guys with a crowbar will eventually open any door/chest that's not magically locked.




                            Maybe.



                            I no longer have a reference to the article, but a few years ago there were a couple of thieves that figured out they could steal a freestanding ATM by tying a heavy chain around it and dragging it down the road behind their truck.

                            After a certain distance most of the pieces came off, however the steel reinforced part that contained the money was intact. At that point they lifted the remaining piece into the truck and drove off.

                            (The extra pieces and the scrape marks gouged in the road were easy to follow to that point.)



                            At some point after that, they gave up and tossed it into a creek where it was found by the authorities.

                            It was bent out of shape, but it still had all of the money inside it.



                            Maybe they were too dumb to steal a blowtorch, or maybe they were smart enough to realize that the blowtorch would burn the paper money inside... I don't know which.






                            share|improve this answer











                            $endgroup$



                            The lock may actually defeat them




                            4-5 guys with a crowbar will eventually open any door/chest that's not magically locked.




                            Maybe.



                            I no longer have a reference to the article, but a few years ago there were a couple of thieves that figured out they could steal a freestanding ATM by tying a heavy chain around it and dragging it down the road behind their truck.

                            After a certain distance most of the pieces came off, however the steel reinforced part that contained the money was intact. At that point they lifted the remaining piece into the truck and drove off.

                            (The extra pieces and the scrape marks gouged in the road were easy to follow to that point.)



                            At some point after that, they gave up and tossed it into a creek where it was found by the authorities.

                            It was bent out of shape, but it still had all of the money inside it.



                            Maybe they were too dumb to steal a blowtorch, or maybe they were smart enough to realize that the blowtorch would burn the paper money inside... I don't know which.







                            share|improve this answer














                            share|improve this answer



                            share|improve this answer








                            edited Jan 1 at 2:18









                            SevenSidedDie♦

                            206k30661937




                            206k30661937










                            answered Dec 31 '18 at 19:20









                            J. Chris ComptonJ. Chris Compton

                            1834




                            1834






























                                draft saved

                                draft discarded




















































                                Thanks for contributing an answer to Role-playing Games Stack Exchange!


                                • Please be sure to answer the question. Provide details and share your research!

                                But avoid …



                                • Asking for help, clarification, or responding to other answers.

                                • Making statements based on opinion; back them up with references or personal experience.


                                Use MathJax to format equations. MathJax reference.


                                To learn more, see our tips on writing great answers.




                                draft saved


                                draft discarded














                                StackExchange.ready(
                                function () {
                                StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2frpg.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f138193%2fwhats-the-point-of-having-a-locked-door-if-the-players-can-just-destroy-it%23new-answer', 'question_page');
                                }
                                );

                                Post as a guest















                                Required, but never shown





















































                                Required, but never shown














                                Required, but never shown












                                Required, but never shown







                                Required, but never shown

































                                Required, but never shown














                                Required, but never shown












                                Required, but never shown







                                Required, but never shown







                                -

                                Popular posts from this blog

                                How do I know what Microsoft account the skydrive app is syncing to?

                                Image
                                up vote 4 down vote favorite 1 Some time ago, I set up skydrive for my wife on her mac. But now she wants to access the files online, I cannot remember what Microsoft account I setup and linked her skydive app to and nor can I see anything in the skydrive app settings to tell me either? How can I see the name of the Microsoft account the skydive app is currently linked to? I would like to know this for skydrive app for Mac and PC onedrive share | improve this question asked Feb 25 '13 at 4:52 Gary Barrett 260 2 5 12
                                Read more

                                Grease: Live!

                                Image
                                A tradução deste artigo está abaixo da qualidade média aceitável. É possível que tenha sido feita por um tradutor automático ou por alguém que não conhece bem o português ou a língua original do texto. Caso queira colaborar com a Wikipédia, tente encontrar a página original e melhore este verbete conforme o guia de tradução. Grease: Live! Grease: Live!  (PRT/BRA)  Estados Unidos 2016 •   cor •   130 min. min   Direção Thomas Kail Alex Rudzinski Produção Marc Platt Adam Siegel Roteiro Allan Carr Robert Cary Warren Casey Jim Jacobs Jonathan Tolins Bronte Woodard Baseado em Grease (musical) Grease (filme) Elenco Julianne Hough Aaron Tveit Vanessa Hudgens Carlos Pena Jr. Keke Palmer Carly Rae Jepsen Kether Donohue Jordan Fisher David Del Rio Andrew Call Gênero Musical Música Tom Kitt Figurino William Ivey Long Companhia(s) produtora(s) Warner Bros. Studios Distribuição Fox Lançamento 31 de Janei
                                Read more

                                When does type information flow backwards in C++?

                                Image
                                up vote 62 down vote favorite 19 I just watched Stephan T. Lavavej talk at CppCon 2018 on "Class Template Argument Deduction", where at some point he incidentally says: In C++ type information almost never flows backwards ... I had to say "almost" because there's one or two cases, possibly more but very few . Despite trying to figure out which cases he might be referring to, I couldn't come up with anything. Hence the question: In which cases the C++17 standard mandates that type information propagate backwards? c++ language-lawyer c++17 share | improve this question edited 7 hours ago scohe0
                                Read more